I've got a Mac!

[Calum]

i've never owned a mac, and always wanted one, because they're cool but i don't have any money

now i own one! i found it at the side of the road. somebody had thrown it away, complete with peripherals (all minus the kettle lead). they had even taped a note saying "working" to it, helpfully. anyway, i got it home, dried it out (it had been rained on overnight) and now it appears to work fine. it is fifteen years old though, as it is an Apple Classic II. Here's some info on it, i am sure you will be riveted to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Classic_II
http://www.machine-room.org/computers/395/
http://www.lowendmac.com/compact/classic.shtml

i have no idea even what the specs are of this machine really, though i plan to go about learning its ins and outs before i take any software related action. at the moment it appears to have MacOS of some sort with M$ Word and Eudora (and some other stuff) installed. It does not have a serial port or a PS/2 port so i can't use my own mouse in it (which is a bit crap, but tolerable) it doesn't seem to have a parallel port either, in fact that first link above has photos of what it does have, but i have no idea how to make it use my existing printer (a samsung ml-1210 which i also need to use with my real computer, running FC4) or anything. Also, i have no idea what sort of disk size it has, but i suspect its 40MB in total, i know it has 4096k of memory because that's all it says in "about this macintosh". it has an actual button on the side of the machine which brings up what appears to be an onscreen command prompt but whatever i type i can't even bring up any error messages. i would LOVE to get a dual boot with some sort of linux going on this machine but it has only a floppy drive, and i have no idea what i would need to install a CD drive for it. i do have a zip drive, but it is USB, not parallel, so this is not an option for this mac as it predates USB. i really don't want to hose its existing setup and i don't have any install disks for it, so there it is.

now, i haven't really asked any proper questions, but my aim is to have fun with this mac and learn about it without screwing it up in any way along the route, anybody got any helpful suggestions? i did use these machines in high school, but cannot remember anything at all (except how to use good old M$ word of course! :-) )so, suggest away.

[noob]

Damn why cant that happen here .

[Laukev7]

You could try installing NetBSD on it.

[Calum]

the macos is 7.5 and ms word is word 4. eudora appears to have been uninstalled though, and so far i can't get fedora to see the floppies i save stuff onto with the mac, but i think fedora is completely shit at floppies anyway so i don't think it's the mac's or the floppies' fault.

i still know nothing else about it though, isn't there some sort of manual or something?
that's an idea, i'll search for a manual, and i might try searching for macintosh classic on ebay to see what sort of peripherals people are saying it's compatible with.

[Aloone_Jonez]

Shame OpenOffice is far too bload to run on such an old machine, have you tried Abi Word?

[Calum]

You could try installing NetBSD on it.

from the link:

and most desktop systems can boot to a usable state.

hmm, i don't want to fuck it all up though, i have no way of installing its existing software back onto it if i want to you see.

that would be very cool however.
i wonder if it could have X and all that on it, or if i could get it to connect to my router with netBSD (probably, though i have no idea how to do this in macOS 7.5)

by the way, if it is running macOS 7.5, then does this mean that even though it has a b/w screen, it is thinking in colour?

[Calum]

Shame OpenOffice is far too bload to run on such an old machine, have you tried Abi Word?

nope, i have so far only looked in the control panels and tried to figure out the intricacies of saving as rtf in such an old version of word (there are a lot of conversion dialogs to work through). i didn't know abiword would install on a MacOS, and i have no idea how i would get it onto the machine considering the lack of any CD drives and the array of mystery ports that bear no resemblance to anything i know about.

[piratePenguin]

Ubuntu 6.06.
Of course I'm messing. I tried to install it on a neighbours almost-10-year-old PC and it wouldn't boot - shitty CD ROM drive I think.

I think this is the computer that my physics teacher has in the lab for, I would call it, "scientific inspection". We should liberate that mac.

Actually it might not be, the one in the lab takes only FLOPPY floppy disks.

EDIT: I've never seen the mac in school powered on... Maybe he hurt it?????

[WMD]

by the way, if it is running macOS 7.5, then does this mean that even though it has a b/w screen, it is thinking in colour?

The default video chipset in the b/w Macs only displays 2-bit: black and white.  The only way to get otherwise is another video card, which IIRC the Classic II doesn't have a slot for.

[H_TeXMeX_H]

For old computers try DSL and feather ... or if you don't like them or can't use them (cuz it's a Mac) just use the very light-weight programs they use ... that's what I do, but mostly for speed, not that I can't run GNOME instead of fluxbox, but I prefer speed.

For example you can try FLWriter (got it from DSL app specs), not sure how to get it to work.

[Jack2000]

you kan yank off the HDD
and connect it as a seccondary to another Mac
or a IBM compatible computer and have an emulator
or something I do not have any exp with a MAC



 [OFFTOPIC]
You know such things happen
even in here
just the other day a friend of mine found a working 450 mhz 128 sd ram
6 gb hdd on side of the road
it was missing all the periferials
so now he uses it as a router and sound box
he commands it with telnet over the lan
[/OFFTOPIC]

[bedouin]

I have this same Mac on my network, with 16mb of ram (the max it will take) and a 700mb HD.

You can download System 7.5.5 for free from Apple's web site in their section of obsoleted software; I used floppies.  It helps to have another Mac in the process to format the discs as HFS and also uncompress them while maintaining resource forks and other classic irritations.

The essential peripheral for any compact Mac is a SCSI > Ethernet adapter from Asante.  This adapter came in two forms: one self-powered from the SCSI port, and another that required an AC adapter, but also provided a chainable SCSI port on the back for attaching stuff like extra hard drives, a CD ROM, etc. without detaching the ethernet adapter.  Important note regarding the adapter in any form: autosensing 10/100 or 10/100/1000 hubs cannot identify the Asante adapter; the only workaround is to spend dollars on a switch where each port can be manually assigned or to just attach an old 10 BaseT hub.  

System 6 is nice on this Mac, but lacks built in TCP/IP if I remember correctly, so it requires digging and configuring things such as MacTCP -- not real fun.  I opted to take the performance hit and go for 7.5.5, which isn't a big deal since I have the maximum amount of ram.

Once networked you have a few different options for file sharing (and by the way, I never got DHCP working correctly, so I had to manually assign an address, your milage may vary).  You can use a standard FTP client and setup an FTP server on your network, you can also use SCP through NiftyTelnet (though, it only supports SSH1, not SSH2), you can also find another Mac running OS 9 or earlier and enable AppleTalk on it.  OS X 10.4 cannot speak Appleshare over Appletalk, only Appleshare over TCP; System 7.5.5 must use Appleshare over Appletalk; netatalk can do this, and can be configured on any Linux/BSD box.  Earlier versions of OS X allowed you to enable Appleshare over Appletalk in netinfo, but that disappeared at some point (probably for the better).

The SCSI ethernet adapter is slow; do not expect any blazingly fast speeds.  Moving data feels slower than dial up sometimes.  NetBSD (and maybe Debian 68k) should be installable over the serial port, as the guy who owned mine previous to me had done that.  However, I do not believe Linux or BSD support the Asante ethernet adapter, so your outside communication will be limited to the serial port.  If that sounds enticing to you, go for it I guess.

On the other hand, this machine will run up to Mac OS 8.1, and I think 8.1 (or 8) introduced built-in web sharing.  I'm using MacHTTP (others are probably fine as well, but do not let you change the default port).  For browsers you can use MacLynx, Mosaic -- there was another text based browser I found recently that's decent.  I don't turn the thing on much; it's more of a decoration on my kitchen table.

Game wise, you'll want to check out Shufflepuck Cafe.  All in all, it's probably not worth your time, and the money you'd waste on it you could get a G3 PowerMac (at least beige) and run something more modern -- like OS X.  I only tinkered with mine out of boredom one weekend.

A picture of my beast is attached.

[verwijderd door de beheerder]

[Calum]

hi bedouin! firstly, i am glad to see you here. i really thought you had gone for good (my first clue was when you said you were leaving these forums for good), but welcome back anyway, you're not somebody i wanted to never hear from again! right, here we go!

I have this same Mac on my network, with 16mb of ram (the max it will take) and a 700mb HD.

cool! i will need to look into that at some point, but not in a hurry. i don't even know how to find out the size of its current hard drive! i know it has 4MB of RAM, but i don't think that was the standard for this one, so perhaps the previous owner upgraded some of the insides? its more likely they did it for him in the apple centre when he bought it actually.

You can download System 7.5.5 for free from Apple's web site in their section of obsoleted software; I used floppies.  It helps to have another Mac in the process to format the discs as HFS and also uncompress them while maintaining resource forks and other classic irritations.

hmm. well, that is good news, i will be doing that, and i have 3 boxes (16 inch house moving type boxes!) of floppies, but i don't have access to another mac. i would be downloading on the real PC though, which currently has FC4 (useless at floppies) but by that time, it will have been replaced with something i can actually configure (as opposed to something i can only use). i think any decent system (slackware for example) will be able to handle hfs disks no bother, i know i used to use hfs zip drives with slack 8.0 anyway.  

The essential peripheral for any compact Mac is a SCSI > Ethernet adapter from Asante.  This adapter came in two forms: one self-powered from the SCSI port, and another that required an AC adapter, but also provided a chainable SCSI port on the back for attaching stuff like extra hard drives, a CD ROM, etc. without detaching the ethernet adapter.

excellent. i will be attempting to ebay one of those  

Important note regarding the adapter in any form: autosensing 10/100 or 10/100/1000 hubs cannot identify the Asante adapter; the only workaround is to spend dollars on a switch where each port can be manually assigned or to just attach an old 10 BaseT hub.  

ok, well i have a DI-604 router. now, please bear in mind i am someone who is not even sure of the difference between a hub, a switch and a router, so when it comes to complicated terms like autosensing, i am out of my depth. i *may* have the manual for the router but as i recall it is useless (totally dumbed down and 100% microcentric), but i maybe the www knows something about whether it is autosensing or not.

System 6 is nice on this Mac, but lacks built in TCP/IP if I remember correctly, so it requires digging and configuring things such as MacTCP -- not real fun.  I opted to take the performance hit and go for 7.5.5, which isn't a big deal since I have the maximum amount of ram.

well, the previous owner obviously found 7.5.3 OK for his 4MB of RAM, however i wouldn't know what sort of apps he would have been using. i suspect netscape and eudora via PPP and word and that's about it. it's got freePPP installed anyway. using third party software to try to connect to the net is a big turn off for me since a few failed attempts at connecting freedos and windows 3.11 to the net.

...OS X 10.4 cannot speak Appleshare over Appletalk, only Appleshare over TCP;

what? that's useless! this is one thing apple does peeve me off about. for no reason, they change all their specs so that their technology is not compatible over a gap of more than a few years. i think there's no excuse for this most of the time, and they have a duty to the people who shell out money for this stuff. same deal with firewire/usb and many others. but i am digressing.

System 7.5.5 must use Appleshare over Appletalk; netatalk can do this, and can be configured on any Linux/BSD box.

that sounds good.

The SCSI ethernet adapter is slow; do not expect any blazingly fast speeds.  Moving data feels slower than dial up sometimes.  NetBSD (and maybe Debian 68k) should be installable over the serial port, as the guy who owned mine previous to me had done that.

which one's the serial port? is it the circular one to the right of the scsi one? that's something i am a little lost about.

However, I do not believe Linux or BSD support the Asante ethernet adapter, so your outside communication will be limited to the serial port.  If that sounds enticing to you, go for it I guess.

actually, i would probably just use macOS exclusively then, i have fond memories of this model and its system from high school, then when i went to college they had windows 3.11 (obviously the high school had a better budget than the high school, their computers were all older Acorn BBCs or newer Apple Macintoshes (well, newer for the early nineties), there was only one windows machine in the whole school i think, or possibly too. oop! digressing again!

On the other hand, this machine will run up to Mac OS 8.1, and I think 8.1 (or 8) introduced built-in web sharing.

really? i saw somewhere, i think it was lowendmac, that 7.5 is the highest you can put on this machine. i suspect i really would need to ramp up the RAM if i wanted to install 8, yes?  

I'm using MacHTTP (others are probably fine as well, but do not let you change the default port).

would you recommend this daring software upgrade, considering i am not about to upgrade the RAM, or would you say getting an asante object is the best plan?

Game wise, you'll want to check out Shufflepuck Cafe.  All in all, it's probably not worth your time, and the money you'd waste on it you could get a G3 PowerMac (at least beige) and run something more modern -- like OS X.  I only tinkered with mine out of boredom one weekend.

well, as soon as somebody leaves a G3 mac in a skip somewhere, i'm in! :-D games, i don't have time for anyway, so that's OK, unless they are like really old NES ones or something, and i suspect zophar's domain can fix me up for emulators there if i want them.

while we're at it, here's a picture of mine in its new home: http://www.polytheism.org.uk/pix/macclassicii.jpg

[WMD]

Ah, those compact Macs are just so...I don't know, cute?

ok, well i have a DI-604 router. now, please bear in mind i am someone who is not even sure of the difference between a hub, a switch and a router, so when it comes to complicated terms like autosensing, i am out of my depth. i *may* have the manual for the router but as i recall it is useless (totally dumbed down and 100% microcentric), but i maybe the www knows something about whether it is autosensing or not.

Pretty much all routers are autosensing.  I think many also let you select a specific speed, but only for all the ports, not just one.

But the big news here is holy shit it's bedouin...

[emuelle1]

I thought my free Mac was archaic. A friend of mine took a contracting job in Iraq for a while, and made some decent money. When I started going to school I told him my old laptop wasn't going to keep up, so he told me I could have his old one because he'd paid cash for a new one while he was there. Later on he told me he had an old iMac that he wanted to get rid of, so I happily took it. It's a G3 333Mhz with 32 Megs of RAM. Not the most useable, but I was able to connect it to my router and surf a little bit. It's more of a novelty, but from what I understand it should run OS X up to 10.3 if I upgrade the RAM.

It came with Mac OS 8.6, which from what I understand is one of Apple's worst OS releases. I got 9.1 and upgraded to 9.2, which is a little better.