Do store bought PCs suck, or just Compaq, other?

[piratePenguin]

and uses it until it goes to hell.

I WISH! They use it until it looks like it's gone to hell, but really only the software is (Windows + malware).

maybe a reason so few OEMs ship computers with GNU/Linux preinstalled is that, is they ship GNU/Linux the computers won't get malware etc, so the people will wait longer before they buy a new computer, and them being greedy bastards don't want that.

Fucking everybody upgrades their computers too early, I use my computer more than 95% of people, do more CPU intensive tasks than 95% of them (subtract the gamers.. I just don't understand them at all) (estimations..), and my Athlon XP 2600+ w/ 256Mb ram that I built over 2 years ago (IIRC) for <

[GenuineAdvantage]

Of course, that's what I meant by going to hell. Windows mucking up.

edit: because I misunderstood something.

But anyways, the truth is MS isn't going anywhere. It will dwell on disposable store PCs like cockroaches no matter what happens.

[worker201]

maybe a reason so few OEMs ship computers with GNU/Linux preinstalled is that, is they ship GNU/Linux the computers won't get malware etc, so the people will wait longer before they buy a new computer, and them being greedy bastards don't want that.

That's only part of the equation.  Another part is support.  Let's say Compaq began selling laptops with Fedora Core pre-installed (forgetting the fact that Microsoft would punish them for this).  If something were to go wrong, the Fedora Group/RHL takes no responsibility.  Contrast that to Microsoft, who takes responsibility for their OEM installations.  Ignore the fact that Microsoft support doesn't ever go beyond "reinstall".  At least they have an obligation to the purchaser and to the vendor for support (even if it is only the illusion of support).  The only way to get this from Linux is to install an enterprise Linux, which costs a shitload of money, making it a bad idea for consumer consumption.

All of this may mean shit to you or me, but it is something that Compaq and Microsoft and the Fedora Group take very seriously.  That's
one reason you don't see too many Linux boxes at consumer retailers.

[H_TeXMeX_H]

I went to Fry's a while ago and saw tons of distros for sale ... they had (as far as I can remember):

Slackware, Redhat, Suse, Mandriva (I think), a number of other distros and FreeBSD.

I was kinda surprized, and they even had a Mac games section.

[GenuineAdvantage]

That's only part of the equation.  Another part is support.  Let's say Compaq began selling laptops with Fedora Core pre-installed (forgetting the fact that Microsoft would punish them for this).  If something were to go wrong, the Fedora Group/RHL takes no responsibility.  Contrast that to Microsoft, who takes responsibility for their OEM installations.  Ignore the fact that Microsoft support doesn't ever go beyond "reinstall".  At least they have an obligation to the purchaser and to the vendor for support (even if it is only the illusion of support).  The only way to get this from Linux is to install an enterprise Linux, which costs a shitload of money, making it a bad idea for consumer consumption.

All of this may mean shit to you or me, but it is something that Compaq and Microsoft and the Fedora Group take very seriously.  That's
one reason you don't see too many Linux boxes at consumer retailers.

It's funny you say all this because the responsibility I see from MS about their OEM crap cakes matters diddly to an individual. Will MS replace anything or even give you a free Winblows CD right away if something goes wrong? Well maybe I've been missing the boat, but I've never seen that happen. And don't forget that many, if not most OEM windows machines just come as is, with no backup disk. I've never taken a system to have it fixed by MS. I don't even know anyone that has. My guess is that if it's not most now, it will get there quick. So with this situation, responsibility from MS to a PC buyer equals nothing. Windows is there because it's there and because MS is the boss, not because PC sellers and their customers are afraid to lose the illusion of support. Illusion is right, you said it.

[worker201]

We all know that what you've said is true, that MS doesn't actually provide any actual support to their retail customers, and if the customers asked, they wouldn't respond.  But they have somehow fooled them into thinking that they would, and Compaq uses this to their advantage.  No sane person has ever called Windows technical support, mostly because there would be no point, and it isn't even toll free.  But the fact that they have a telephone number makes all the difference to the idiots.  Some people trust the name, even if the name (or the company behind it) doesn't offer any reason for trust.  Retail culture is set up to deal with corporately branded products, and Linux isn't one of them.

[piratePenguin]

That's only part of the equation.  Another part is support.  Let's say Compaq began selling laptops with Fedora Core pre-installed (forgetting the fact that Microsoft would punish them for this).  If something were to go wrong, the Fedora Group/RHL takes no responsibility.  Contrast that to Microsoft, who takes responsibility for their OEM installations.  Ignore the fact that Microsoft support doesn't ever go beyond "reinstall".  At least they have an obligation to the purchaser and to the vendor for support (even if it is only the illusion of support).  The only way to get this from Linux is to install an enterprise Linux, which costs a shitload of money, making it a bad idea for consumer consumption.

All of this may mean shit to you or me, but it is something that Compaq and Microsoft and the Fedora Group take very seriously.  That's
one reason you don't see too many Linux boxes at consumer retailers.

Yea I said "maybe a reason...", but that is another reason. There are many companies trying to capitalise on the support-hole though, with a bit of effort and a bit of money I bet any OEM could make it work.

Really my point was that malware in a way does benefit Dell and MS etc because people think their computers are fucked (when they aren't, just the software is) so they buy new computers too early and too often (and if they installed GNU/Linux this would go away (to a large extent for a while)).

[piratePenguin]

with a bit of effort and a bit of money I bet any OEM could make it work.

And what do you know, HP just announced telephone support for Debian on selected HP computers (servers and thin clients).
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,126717/article.html

[H_TeXMeX_H]

Hey, that's good news. With more support maybe more people will switch or have less of a problem switching. The article only mentions support for Linux servers not desktops, but surely if you can support servers you can support desktops too.

[worker201]

Hey, that's good news. With more support maybe more people will switch or have less of a problem switching. The article only mentions support for Linux servers not desktops, but surely if you can support servers you can support desktops too.

Let's not get too excited.  Servers are usually lorded over by people who have at least some idea of what a computer is.  Giving them telephone support is somewhat easy.  Desktops are usually lorded over by people who can't tell the difference between a motherboard and the frame on their parents' bed.  Giving them telephone support costs a lot of money and makes the supporters want to kill themselves.

[H_TeXMeX_H]

 Giving them telephone support costs a lot of money and makes the supporters want to kill themselves.

Haha, well that depends on who works at tech support. Usually they don't have the best qualifications, nor do they need them. They just read off the solutions from a site or manual most of the time.

[worker201]

That's true.  One of my more esoteric jobs back in the dotcom days was to create a database of common solutions, so tech support emailers could just call up the right set of instructions.  I spent a few days writing tech support emails, and I was incredibly good at it - I would joke around and be extremely sweet and helpful.  But after like the 5th time I had to explain where the 'system tray' was, it got kinda old.