Author Topic: "It just works" (Read 2022 times)

worker201 · « **on:** 7 September 2006, 07:34 »

In my office, we have this benign little piece of hardware called a Lexmark Z65 printer. It's a pretty standard shitty little inkjet printer. I've installed it for Windows many times. It's simple, really, you plug the printer in, and Windows tries to find drivers for it - but it can't, so you have to insert this installation disk. The installation disk installs, along with the drivers, this printer management software - whether you want it to or not (the drivers are encoded, and the management installer decodes and installs them). Wait, what do I need printer management for? Print management is something that the OS does, right? Since Windows was (theoretically) capable of printing before installing this printer, I guess it is. But Windows doesn't say "Printing started" when a print job starts! Or say "Printing complete" when a print job finishes.

Thanks to some fucking around, I brought my Apple MacBookPro into the office today. I wanted to print something, so I plugged the printer in. Nothing happened. I figured it was fucked up, and it needed that software installed, and the printer management software doesn't work on OSX. But just to be sure, I opened my Prefs and looked under printers. Hoho, there it was, the Lexmark Z65, ready to print. I was printing perfect documents within 20 seconds of connecting this thing. However, there was some confusion later, when the print job had completed, yet no electronic voice said "Printing complete".

Out of curiousity, I tried connecting the printer to my Linux box (FC5), just to see what kind of crazy error messages I would get. I figured there would be some kind of device error or something. Alas, nothing happened. Was it the same kind of nothing that happened on the Mac? To be safe, I tried to randomly print something. Presto, a print dialog box comes up, telling me that my printing will be done on a Lexmark Z65, controlled by CUPS. Yay! However, there was some confusion later, when the print job had completed, yet no electronic voice said "Printing complete".

Now, I've kinda skipped over one small little detail here: the printer management software that installs in Windows brings up this nifty little graphic that theoretically keeps track of how much ink you have left in your color and black print cartridges. You don't see that in OSX or FC5. I guess with those OSes, you have to look at the page and guess that your cartridge is dying. Just like we have been for the last 10 years.

Similar phenomenon can be seen with other peripherals. For instance, my iPod works extra well in OSX, works just great in Linux, and not at all without reformatting in Windows. My Nikon Coolpix 4300 has been auto-detected on my Mac since Jaguar, and is detected just fine in Linux, but I cannot get it to work on any PC because I've thrown the driver cd away.

Overall, what has this particular instance taught us about the "It Just Works" argument? That in respect to common peripheral detection, Linux and OSX are far superior to Windows. That discs of drivers are only necessary for Windows. That people who complain of shitty peripheral detection are simply using shitty peripherals. That many of the techniques and processes that Windroids have accepted as necessary are overly complicated. That almost no one has actually seen the Windows native printer management software.

And that Windows sucks.

Refalm · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 September 2006, 09:09 »

And in Windows Vista, things will get worse conserning drivers.
I posted this thread a while back about non Microsoft signed drivers not being accepted.

piratePenguin · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 September 2006, 18:01 »

Lexmark sucks btw

At least.. I don't have anything good to say about the POS Lexmark printer we got..

I think we could do with a printer + scanner ... Anyone got any recommendations? Obviously it needs to have drivers for GNU/Linux.. HP released free drivers for some of their printers, and their printers shouldn't be that bad, so I might go with one of them..

adiment · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 September 2006, 18:23 »

Quote from: piratePenguin

Lexmark sucks btw

At least.. I don't have anything good to say about the POS Lexmark printer we got..

I think we could do with a printer + scanner ... Anyone got any recommendations? Obviously it needs to have drivers for GNU/Linux.. HP released free drivers for some of their printers, and their printers shouldn't be that bad, so I might go with one of them..

My experience Lexmark also made me hate them. For recommendations, I have an HP PSC 1315 all-in-one and it works great with Linux.

worker201 · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 September 2006, 18:30 »

Microtek is really bad with Linux. My Scanmaker 4900 at the office is absolutely unsupported in Linux.

Sane supported device list, updated June 2006:
http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html

Pick one with "complete" support

Lead Head · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 September 2006, 21:11 »

Had a lexmark Z53, neat little printer....until I got my Canon iP3000

H_TeXMeX_H · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 September 2006, 22:25 »

Quote from: etement

My experience Lexmark also made me hate them. For recommendations, I have an HP PSC 1315 all-in-one and it works great with Linux.

Yeah Lexmark is the worst printer company out there AFAIK. I have an HP PSC 1610 All-in-One and you can do everything you want with it using hplip. You can scan, print, copy, anything. It's awesome, and the ink doesn't dry on the cartrige like with most Canon and Lexmark printers.

Here's a list of HPLIP supported devices and whether you can scan or not:

http://hplip.sourceforge.net/supported_devices/combined.html

There's also hpoj, but I've found that they support fewer printers (especially scan support ... I cannot scan with my printer using these drivers, cuz it's not supported):

http://hpoj.sourceforge.net/suplist.shtml

and if you don't like HP or want more options, here's the site I used to select my printer:

http://www.linuxprinting.org/suggested.html

Calum · « **Reply #7 on:** 8 September 2006, 17:06 »

i find the opposite to the little lexmark story, i have had not many printers but my experience is that using the proprietary software, they work under windows. not having any proprietary software to install under mandrake, fedora, slack, debian etc, means that the printers don't work, work erratically, or take a bit of effort to get working.

the reason for this has nothing to do with windows being better or worse, but the intention of hardware manufacturers to release supporting software, in my opinion. I do know one thing, without the software under windows, the printer would not work at all. Your chances are much better with fedora than windows, if you have lost your driver disk.

WMD · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 September 2006, 22:02 »

I have a Lexmark Z52. Except for that time it "broke" (attached to Windows 95) and I put it in the closet for 2 years before taking it back out and having it work perfectly (attached to Linux), it's been pretty good. Sometimes under Linux and OS X, the color won't print right (everything is banded, even with a new cartridge), but I rarely print in color so I don't care. Sure, I don't have the "printing complete" in OS X (which i thought was amusing when I bought it), but at least I can plug/unplug the thing while going to/coming from classes without having the OS go apeshit over it.

solemnwarning · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 September 2006, 22:19 »

I've got a HP Deskjet 3845 on my LAN server using hplip and CUPS, that is accessed by 2 PC's and my laptop using IPP/HTTP, HP ftw!

pofnlice · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 September 2006, 22:27 »

HP Deskjet 697c - works in all linux and windows, even for photo quality.

Lexmark X2350 Works only in windows. It's one of those all in one jobs. Someone write an open source driver for this damn it!

worker201 · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 September 2006, 23:56 »

Quote from: pofnlice

Lexmark X2350 Works only in windows. It's one of those all in one jobs. Someone write an open source driver for this damn it!

No, dammit, you write it! If you want to use it, put a little effort in! I'll be glad to help with the documentation.

piratePenguin · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 September 2006, 00:09 »

Quote from: pofnlice

Someone write an open source driver for this damn it!

Or write a polite (or impolite) letter to Lexmark about it..

pofnlice · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 September 2006, 00:49 »

Quote from: worker201

No, dammit, you write it! If you want to use it, put a little effort in! I'll be glad to help with the documentation.

I volunteer you. Come on over to my place we'll have beer and coding.

worker201 · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 September 2006, 01:51 »

That sounds fine. But I think it would be easier and cheaper to just trick Void into writing it

Author Topic: "It just works" (Read 2022 times)

worker201

"It just works"

Refalm

Re: "It just works"

piratePenguin

Re: "It just works"

adiment

Re: "It just works"

worker201

Re: "It just works"

Lead Head

Re: "It just works"

H_TeXMeX_H

Re: "It just works"

Calum

Re: "It just works"

WMD

Re: "It just works"

solemnwarning

Re: "It just works"

pofnlice

Re: "It just works"

worker201

Re: "It just works"

piratePenguin

Re: "It just works"

pofnlice

Re: "It just works"

worker201

Re: "It just works"

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« previous next » Print Pages: [1] 2 3 Go Down Author Topic: "It just works" (Read 2022 times) worker201 Global Moderator Posts: 2,810 Kudos: 703 "It just works" « on: 7 September 2006, 07:34 » In my office, we have this benign little piece of hardware called a Lexmark Z65 printer. It's a pretty standard shitty little inkjet printer. I've installed it for Windows many times. It's simple, really, you plug the printer in, and Windows tries to find drivers for it - but it can't, so you have to insert this installation disk. The installation disk installs, along with the drivers, this printer management software - whether you want it to or not (the drivers are encoded, and the management installer decodes and installs them). Wait, what do I need printer management for? Print management is something that the OS does, right? Since Windows was (theoretically) capable of printing before installing this printer, I guess it is. But Windows doesn't say "Printing started" when a print job starts! Or say "Printing complete" when a print job finishes. Thanks to some fucking around, I brought my Apple MacBookPro into the office today. I wanted to print something, so I plugged the printer in. Nothing happened. I figured it was fucked up, and it needed that software installed, and the printer management software doesn't work on OSX. But just to be sure, I opened my Prefs and looked under printers. Hoho, there it was, the Lexmark Z65, ready to print. I was printing perfect documents within 20 seconds of connecting this thing. However, there was some confusion later, when the print job had completed, yet no electronic voice said "Printing complete". Out of curiousity, I tried connecting the printer to my Linux box (FC5), just to see what kind of crazy error messages I would get. I figured there would be some kind of device error or something. Alas, nothing happened. Was it the same kind of nothing that happened on the Mac? To be safe, I tried to randomly print something. Presto, a print dialog box comes up, telling me that my printing will be done on a Lexmark Z65, controlled by CUPS. Yay! However, there was some confusion later, when the print job had completed, yet no electronic voice said "Printing complete". Now, I've kinda skipped over one small little detail here: the printer management software that installs in Windows brings up this nifty little graphic that theoretically keeps track of how much ink you have left in your color and black print cartridges. You don't see that in OSX or FC5. I guess with those OSes, you have to look at the page and guess that your cartridge is dying. Just like we have been for the last 10 years. Similar phenomenon can be seen with other peripherals. For instance, my iPod works extra well in OSX, works just great in Linux, and not at all without reformatting in Windows. My Nikon Coolpix 4300 has been auto-detected on my Mac since Jaguar, and is detected just fine in Linux, but I cannot get it to work on any PC because I've thrown the driver cd away. Overall, what has this particular instance taught us about the "It Just Works" argument? That in respect to common peripheral detection, Linux and OSX are far superior to Windows. That discs of drivers are only necessary for Windows. That people who complain of shitty peripheral detection are simply using shitty peripherals. That many of the techniques and processes that Windroids have accepted as necessary are overly complicated. That almost no one has actually seen the Windows native printer management software. And that Windows sucks. Logged Refalm Administrator Posts: 5,159 Kudos: 704 Sjembek! Re: "It just works" « Reply #1 on: 7 September 2006, 09:09 » And in Windows Vista, things will get worse conserning drivers. I posted this thread a while back about non Microsoft signed drivers not being accepted. Logged Radio Knop . piratePenguin VIP Posts: 3,025 Kudos: 775 Re: "It just works" « Reply #2 on: 7 September 2006, 18:01 » Lexmark sucks btw At least.. I don't have anything good to say about the POS Lexmark printer we got.. I think we could do with a printer + scanner ... Anyone got any recommendations? Obviously it needs to have drivers for GNU/Linux.. HP released free drivers for some of their printers, and their printers shouldn't be that bad, so I might go with one of them.. Logged "What you share with the world is what it keeps of you." - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well. adiment Global Moderator Posts: 572 Kudos: 519 Re: "It just works" « Reply #3 on: 7 September 2006, 18:23 » Quote from: piratePenguin Lexmark sucks btw At least.. I don't have anything good to say about the POS Lexmark printer we got.. I think we could do with a printer + scanner ... Anyone got any recommendations? Obviously it needs to have drivers for GNU/Linux.. HP released free drivers for some of their printers, and their printers shouldn't be that bad, so I might go with one of them.. My experience Lexmark also made me hate them. For recommendations, I have an HP PSC 1315 all-in-one and it works great with Linux. Logged worker201 Global Moderator Posts: 2,810 Kudos: 703 Re: "It just works" « Reply #4 on: 7 September 2006, 18:30 » Microtek is really bad with Linux. My Scanmaker 4900 at the office is absolutely unsupported in Linux. Sane supported device list, updated June 2006: http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html Pick one with "complete" support Logged Lead Head Global Moderator Posts: 1,508 Kudos: 534 Re: "It just works" « Reply #5 on: 7 September 2006, 21:11 » Had a lexmark Z53, neat little printer....until I got my Canon iP3000 Logged sig. H_TeXMeX_H Member Posts: 1,988 Kudos: 494 Re: "It just works" « Reply #6 on: 7 September 2006, 22:25 » Quote from: etement My experience Lexmark also made me hate them. For recommendations, I have an HP PSC 1315 all-in-one and it works great with Linux. Yeah Lexmark is the worst printer company out there AFAIK. I have an HP PSC 1610 All-in-One and you can do everything you want with it using hplip. You can scan, print, copy, anything. It's awesome, and the ink doesn't dry on the cartrige like with most Canon and Lexmark printers. Here's a list of HPLIP supported devices and whether you can scan or not: http://hplip.sourceforge.net/supported_devices/combined.html There's also hpoj, but I've found that they support fewer printers (especially scan support ... I cannot scan with my printer using these drivers, cuz it's not supported): http://hpoj.sourceforge.net/suplist.shtml and if you don't like HP or want more options, here's the site I used to select my printer: http://www.linuxprinting.org/suggested.html Logged Calum Global Moderator Posts: 7,812 Kudos: 1000 Re: "It just works" « Reply #7 on: 8 September 2006, 17:06 » i find the opposite to the little lexmark story, i have had not many printers but my experience is that using the proprietary software, they work under windows. not having any proprietary software to install under mandrake, fedora, slack, debian etc, means that the printers don't work, work erratically, or take a bit of effort to get working. the reason for this has nothing to do with windows being better or worse, but the intention of hardware manufacturers to release supporting software, in my opinion. I do know one thing, without the software under windows, the printer would not work at all. Your chances are much better with fedora than windows, if you have lost your driver disk. Logged visit these websites and make yourself happy forever: It's my music! \| My music on MySpace \| Integrational Polytheism WMD Global Moderator Posts: 2,525 Kudos: 391 Re: "It just works" « Reply #8 on: 8 September 2006, 22:02 » I have a Lexmark Z52. Except for that time it "broke" (attached to Windows 95) and I put it in the closet for 2 years before taking it back out and having it work perfectly (attached to Linux), it's been pretty good. Sometimes under Linux and OS X, the color won't print right (everything is banded, even with a new cartridge), but I rarely print in color so I don't care. Sure, I don't have the "printing complete" in OS X (which i thought was amusing when I bought it), but at least I can plug/unplug the thing while going to/coming from classes without having the OS go apeshit over it. Logged My BSOD gallery "Yes there's nothing wrong with going around being rude and selfish, killing people and fucking married women, but being childish is a cardinal sin around these parts." -Aloone_Jonez solemnwarning Member Posts: 747 Kudos: 338 Re: "It just works" « Reply #9 on: 8 September 2006, 22:19 » I've got a HP Deskjet 3845 on my LAN server using hplip and CUPS, that is accessed by 2 PC's and my laptop using IPP/HTTP, HP ftw! Logged -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS/CM d- s+:+ a--- C++ UL++++>$ P+ L+++ !E W++ !N !o !K-- w !O !M !V PS+ PE- !Y !PGP !t !5 !X !R tv b+ DI+ !D G e- h !r y- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ pofnlice Member Posts: 999 Kudos: 650 Re: "It just works" « Reply #10 on: 8 September 2006, 22:27 » HP Deskjet 697c - works in all linux and windows, even for photo quality. Lexmark X2350 Works only in windows. It's one of those all in one jobs. Someone write an open source driver for this damn it! Logged Quote from: "Orethrius" After all, running Windows without a decent anti-virus is like walking through a Red Light District after eating five metric tonnes of Viagra. worker201 Global Moderator Posts: 2,810 Kudos: 703 Re: "It just works" « Reply #11 on: 8 September 2006, 23:56 » Quote from: pofnlice Lexmark X2350 Works only in windows. It's one of those all in one jobs. Someone write an open source driver for this damn it! No, dammit, you write it! If you want to use it, put a little effort in! I'll be glad to help with the documentation. Logged piratePenguin VIP Posts: 3,025 Kudos: 775 Re: "It just works" « Reply #12 on: 9 September 2006, 00:09 » Quote from: pofnlice Someone write an open source driver for this damn it! Or write a polite (or impolite) letter to Lexmark about it.. Logged "What you share with the world is what it keeps of you." - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well. pofnlice Member Posts: 999 Kudos: 650 Re: "It just works" « Reply #13 on: 9 September 2006, 00:49 » Quote from: worker201 No, dammit, you write it! If you want to use it, put a little effort in! I'll be glad to help with the documentation. I volunteer you. Come on over to my place we'll have beer and coding. Logged Quote from: "Orethrius" After all, running Windows without a decent anti-virus is like walking through a Red Light District after eating five metric tonnes of Viagra. worker201 Global Moderator Posts: 2,810 Kudos: 703 Re: "It just works" « Reply #14 on: 9 September 2006, 01:51 » That sounds fine. But I think it would be easier and cheaper to just trick Void into writing it Logged Print Pages: [1] 2 3 Go Up « previous next » Stop Microsoft » Forum » All Things Microsoft » Microsoft Software » "It just works"
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