I'm moving back to Opera!

[Aloone_Jonez]

I've had enough with the bloatware that Firefox has become.

I'm moving back to Opera, at least on the Windows platform.

I only used Firefox because if Adblock, now I've discovered how to block adverts on Opera it doesn't mater any more.

Opera has other features which I find handy: speed dial, notes and being able to paste stuff into the Google/address bar and it'll take you to the site without having to press enter. I know it's possible to get them with Firefox via extensions but they're available in Opera native. The Firefox speed dial is also slower than a slug on morphine.

There are only thing I prefer with Firefox is the page search bar but it's no big deal.

In general I do prefer FOSS but I'm not going to use it when there's a blatantly superior non-free alternative which doesn't lock me into using it by having proprietary formats and standards. On the contrary, Opera rivals Firefox and other FOSS browsers when it comes to supporting open standards.

On the Linux platform, I might switch to Swiftfox. I had a quick go at installing Opera on Fedora which was a failure and going from my memories of running Opera under Ubuntu and Vector Linux, it was slower loading than Firefox but maybe it's improved since then.

[reactosguy]

Uhh, Chrome anyone?


It supports open standards, is licensed under BSD License and is a space saver.

[Refalm]

Chrome doesn't have mouse gestures. And other features like the trash can and tab locking that I consider basic.

I was an Opera user for quite some time, but somehow I liked Firefox better because of the addons and the customability. I have learned to use some features in Opera, that are also in the Tab Mix Plus addon for Firefox. The browser can be a slow sometimes, I hope they fixed that in 3.6.

I do know a lot of Opera users, and I still use Opera on my mobile and Wii.

[Aloone_Jonez]

I've never used mouse gestures before, I don't see what the fuss is about and speed dial isn't that important to me, even though it's handy.

I've switched browsers a few times: Internet Explorer, Firefox, Opera, Firefox and now Opera again. I'm aware of the advantages and disadvantages of the aforementioned browsers and keep on trying them all out because the goal posts move every now and then. To be honest, I think even Internet Explorer has come a fair way since version 6: competition from Firefox and Opera has certainly put a rocked up Microsoft's arse.

Notes and Adblock are the only features I'm really bothered about but speed is the most important thing. Firefox's Adblock extension is still much better than Opera's: with Firefox you can subscribe to a list of blocked elements which gets updated every fortnight with Opera you download a list manually and append it to a .ini file and manually update it. The only reason why I use Adblock is there's one site I visit which is littered with adverts and as long as I can block them all, I don't care.

Opera is much faster loading and it's memory management seems to be much more intelligent. It seems to suck up memory up to a certain point and hold on to it for a certain length of time which probably depends on the available resources, then bang it releases the memory. I remember it taking up to 120MB after opening loads of tabs, I closed the tabs and the memory usage didn't go down much; I looked at the memory usage a bit later and it had gone down to 20MB. Pages also seem to load much faster under Opera.

I've played with Google Chrome but I've never warmed to it. I don't like the way you have to install it per user under Windows for a start and it just seems very basic and minimalist.

[davidnix71]

NoScript addon in Firefox with Cookie Monster is the safe way. Firefox is slow to render. I just got a 13.3" MacBook Pro to replace my G4 laptop and there is a huge difference in rendering speed. I like Opera's built-in torrent client.

[Aloone_Jonez]

I've used NoScript before, it's installed and enabled by default on the Windows administrator account.

I think it's overrated security wise unless you don't have any trusted sites on it, there's always a risk that one of your trusted sites could get compromised.

Firefox does warn you before entering a site that Google says contain malware but I don't know if Opera does this too. There again Opera does have less vulnerabilities than Firefox over all so even if it doesn't warn you, you're still reasonably safe.

[Lead Head]

The firefox warning thing for "bad sites" is not necessarily for malware either. It is often used with phishing sites that may pose as PayPal or some other legitimate site to try and steal your identity. I would be surprised if Opera did NOT have this feature.

[Aloone_Jonez]

I know it has an anti-phishing filter.

Anyway I don't know because I'm currently using Firefox in Fedora.

[piratePenguin]

Good to see that not much has changed around here

The most under-rated security feature in any web browser is Firefox's auto-updater.

Ah I've been out of the loop with all the browsers, there are A LOT of good choices nowadays. I just use Firefox cuz its free and it comes on all my Ubuntus, and I've used it for I duno how many years with no problems. Theres a lot of interesting stuff happening to it too, ie Mozilla Labs: Weave (syncing different Firefoxes and mobile Firefoxes), Jetpack (web-page format extensions, yeah click an "install" button and the extension will appear without restarting), Personas (I don't particularly fancy this feature but you have to see the appeal lots of users see, if they can simply do this and create a top-class (HUGE) website of community created themes, why not?). Soon these things and more will be a part of Firefox (all in Firefox 4 2011, Personas in Firefox 3.6 coming soon, rest can use beta-level extensions for now).

Firefox extensions, now Personas, soon Jetpack. The essence of the power of Firefox is in its COMMUNITY. It's ridiculous. And that's why it's the worlds 2nd most popular web-browser. If you account for the the auto-updater, I'd argue it's the #1 safest web-browser for these numbers too. (I dont know if chrome etc have updaters as effective as Firefox, I assume opera still doesnt?)

http://www.pcworld.com/article/185562/firefox_roadmap_a_look_at_versions_36_to_40.html

EDIT: this is a very important question. Does Opera (stable releases) support native OGG video? When I googled I got to the experimental builds, worrying if thats all there is. Wouldnt make sense either.
edit: I see the answer is no. That's a pretty big surprise..

[Aloone_Jonez]

To be honest, I haven't had too much of a problem with Firefox, it's stable, reliable and has extensions, I've just come to the conclusion that it isn't the best browser, as far as I'm concerned. I knew this whilst I was using it before but I put up with it because I liked Adblock so much.

I don't like auto-updaters because I want to install software when I want to, not when some community/company says so. Auto-update is the first thing I disable, regardless of whether it's Windows, Linux or an application such as Firefox or OpenOffice.org.

The auto-updater is useless as far as I'm concerned: it's a normally disabled under Linux because the distro's update system takes over and under Windows the auto-updater is only any use if you're using the insecure default configuration i.e. running a administrator for everything.

I don't care about OGG support, it's so easy to open in VLC. EDIT: Opera comes with a plug-in preinstalled.

I don't care that Opera totally pawns Firefox when it comes to the Acid 3 test.

I care far more about speed and the features I want more than anything else.

I just discovered another thing I miss with Firefox, it remembers the zoom setting for pages I've visited but on the plus side Opera's zoom is faster and easier to use.

Hell it's personal preference for the most part, I can understand why people use Firefox but I think it's only so popular because it was the first really viable alternative to MS IE. Back in the days of IE 6, the Mozilla suite was to big and clunky and Opera was adware so Windows users had no real choice apart from IE, then Firefox came along and change all of that.

[Aloone_Jonez]

Opera does seem to be better at supporting IE only sites. It comes with a user agent switcher built-in. Firefox needs an extension which doesn't seem to be as effective as Opera.
I tested a few sites from the list of IE only sites here: http://toastytech.com/good/badsitelistframe.html

Some have since been fixed, or maybe it's Firfefox that's been fixed, most won't work in Opera or Firefox, but there are some which work in Opera and IE but not Firefox.

https://carelink.minimed.com/patient/entry.jsp?bhcp=1 Works in Opera with the user agent set to mask as IE, doesn't work in Firefox regardless of the UA setting.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/gamechannel Works in Opera with the UA set to identify as Opera or Firefox. This is obviously not an IE only site, it's just listed as such because it won't work in Firefox. It also works with Chrome, which indicates that Firefox needs fixing, not the site. I wish Firefox zealots would get their facts straight before blaming sites.

https://esp.rci.rogers.com/EAMWeb/TCSP/ENU/Common/servlet/login.xml?ReturnUrl=%2fEAMWeb%2fTCSP%2fENU%2fAPI%2fservlet%2fAdminGetUserProfile.ewfm - Same again, works perfectly in IE, Chrome and in Opera (not quite perfect but still works) but not at all in Firefox.

http://datawarehouse.hrsa.gov/DWOnlineMap/MainInterface.aspx Works in Opera and IE but not in Firefox or Chrome. I'll let the zealot off on this one, it does say it requires IE >6 on non-compatible browsers but it doesn't block non-IE browsers, it works under Opera with the UA set to Opera.

http://www.topjob.com.br/ Opera, Chrome and IE not Firefox

https://pcws.wal-mart.com/cws/seeker.html Opera, Chrome and IE not Firefox

I know that there are some sites which render better in Firefox than Opera (the MES is one of them) and there are probably sites which work in Firefox and IE but not Opera. I think that designers should ensure their sites work in all browsers but it does piss me off when people automatically assume that just because a site doesn't work in Firxfox it's the site designer's fault and not their favourite browser. I always test a site in gecko and WebKit and Opera before I blame the site designer. It's fair enough blaming them if it blocks non-IE browsers but that's often not the case.

Note: I didn't check all the sites on the list.

[Lead Head]

I suppose it could be a FireFox issue why they aren't working, but what if it IS a coding error on their part, and Opera/Chrome are just better at working around those errors?

[worker201]

https://carelink.minimed.com/patient/entry.jsp?bhcp=1 Works in Opera with the user agent set to mask as IE, doesn't work in Firefox regardless of the UA setting.

Doesn't work on a Mac in any browser.  Which means it probably uses Windows-based program hooks that are only available in IE.  I suspect that even if it loads in Opera, it isn't fully functional.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/gamechannel Works in Opera with the UA set to identify as Opera or Firefox. This is obviously not an IE only site, it's just listed as such because it won't work in Firefox. It also works with Chrome, which indicates that Firefox needs fixing, not the site. I wish Firefox zealots would get their facts straight before blaming sites.

This site works fine for me in Firefox.  You're the one who needs to get your facts straight.

https://esp.rci.rogers.com/EAMWeb/TCSP/ENU/Common/servlet/login.xml?ReturnUrl=%2fEAMWeb%2fTCSP%2fENU%2fAPI%2fservlet%2fAdminGetUserProfile.ewfm - Same again, works perfectly in IE, Chrome and in Opera (not quite perfect but still works) but not at all in Firefox.

This page shouldn't work in any browser.  The fact that it does in most of them only proves how many browsers are willing to work around shitty programming and how many are not.  I don't fault Firefox for not loading this page at all.

http://datawarehouse.hrsa.gov/DWOnlineMap/MainInterface.aspx Works in Opera and IE but not in Firefox or Chrome. I'll let the zealot off on this one, it does say it requires IE >6 on non-compatible browsers but it doesn't block non-IE browsers, it works under Opera with the UA set to Opera.

This site baffles me.  I've pored over their code, including all their linked JavaScripts, and can't find the section of code that does the browser check.  In fact, if you look at the file javascripts/actions.js, you'll see that there is code that checks if the browser is IE5 or Navigator 4, and then programs the appropriate JavaScript calls.  There's actually client-side code in there designed to facilitate old and/or non-IE browsers!  But they must do some sort of server-side browser check somewhere.

http://www.topjob.com.br/ Opera, Chrome and IE not Firefox

Works just as well in Firefox and Safari as it does in Opera.  Hard to tell, though, since I don't speak Portuguese very well.

https://pcws.wal-mart.com/cws/seeker.html Opera, Chrome and IE not Firefox

Should not work in any browser.  Have you looked at the source?  Fucker has embedded tables down to 5 layers:

Code: [Select]

<TABLE><TABLE><TABLE><TABLE><TABLE></TABLE></TABLE></TABLE></TABLE></TABLE>
And that's just the beginning.  That's irresponsible coding, and I'm sorta glad Firefox doesn't allow it.

I think in most of the examples you've cited here (that really don't work in Firefox), the coder is at fault, for not running his site properly.  Choosing to use coding hooks that only work on Windows is ridiculous.  Automatically blocking certain browsers from the server side is just plain mean, especially if your coders are facilitating them from the client side.  Illegal XML and HTML code shouldn't be coddled by a browser, it should be burned and discarded by a browser.  I see Opera's behavior in this arena as kowtowing to the clusterfuck that Microsoft and IE have made of web standards.

Think about the two of the most popular websites on the internet - Google.com and Amazon.com.  Both work with all modern browsers on all platforms.  No messages, no warnings.  As a matter of fact, those sites probably don't even use workarounds any more - they've streamlined the processes so well that simple code is able to do complex things.  This is how the internet can and should work.

[Aloone_Jonez]

https://carelink.minimed.com/patient/entry.jsp?bhcp=1 Works in Opera with the user agent set to mask as IE, doesn't work in Firefox regardless of the UA setting.

Doesn't work on a Mac in any browser.  Which means it probably uses Windows-based program hooks that are only available in IE.  I suspect that even if it loads in Opera, it isn't fully functional.

I haven't tested it under Linux yet.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/gamechannel Works in Opera with the UA set to identify as Opera or Firefox. This is obviously not an IE only site, it's just listed as such because it won't work in Firefox. It also works with Chrome, which indicates that Firefox needs fixing, not the site. I wish Firefox zealots would get their facts straight before blaming sites.

This site works fine for me in Firefox.  You're the one who needs to get your facts straight.

Yes, that was my mistake, I forgot to disable Adblock, it works without it.

This site baffles me.  I've pored over their code, including all their linked JavaScripts, and can't find the section of code that does the browser check.  In fact, if you look at the file javascripts/actions.js, you'll see that there is code that checks if the browser is IE5 or Navigator 4, and then programs the appropriate JavaScript calls.  There's actually client-side code in there designed to facilitate old and/or non-IE browsers!  But they must do some sort of server-side browser check somewhere.

My guess is it doesn't do a browser check, if a script fails to execute it presumes you're not using IE.

If it did a browser check, it would fail on Opera with the US set to Opera.

http://www.topjob.com.br/ Opera, Chrome and IE not Firefox

Works just as well in Firefox and Safari as it does in Opera.  Hard to tell, though, since I don't speak Portuguese very well.

Might fault again for not disabling Adblock.

https://pcws.wal-mart.com/cws/seeker.html Opera, Chrome and IE not Firefox

Should not work in any browser.  Have you looked at the source?  Fucker has embedded tables down to 5 layers:

Code: [Select]

<TABLE><TABLE><TABLE><TABLE><TABLE></TABLE></TABLE></TABLE></TABLE></TABLE>
And that's just the beginning.  That's irresponsible coding, and I'm sorta glad Firefox doesn't allow it.

What's the limit on the number of levels of nesting for an embedded table?

Whilst it seems strange that anyone would nest that deep, it also seems odd that a browser should limit it, that seems like a lame excuse to me. My guess is that Firfox imposes an arbitrary limit to nesting and other browsers don't.

[piratePenguin]

There are schools of thought (FOR EXAMPLE ITS THE PURPOSE OF XHTML) that suggest even if browsers can work out what a developer intends, under circumstances that it is not complying with standard specifications the browsers should not only fail to render the page fully, but should actually abort and display an error.

In fact I'm 50/50 XML demands user agents abort for syntax errors. If thats true then Firefox does the correct thing and other browsers are breaking the spec for this page:
https://esp.rci.rogers.com/EAMWeb/TCSP/ENU/Common/servlet/login.xml?ReturnUrl=%2fEAMWeb%2fTCSP%2fENU%2fAPI%2fservlet%2fAdminGetUserProfile.ewfm

this is to prevent the future of the web (that looks like an xslt page) from being fucked over like html was.

the last time i was keeping track firefox was the holy king of rendering internet explorer specific shit. if it still was you could argue thats a BAD THING.

aloone, ever run into any problems with firefoxes rendering while you were using it? what about opera?