Programming vs Photoshopping

[GoodwillMan]

Macman said that programming is not "art" well, then Photoshopping is not art. I decided not to post this in the GRAVE YARD thread because well. I just made a new thread because I can

Who is doing the work? In Photoshop (And GIMP and all the others) most people make images using filters, scripts, and other crap, and they do a bit of cropping and soforth. (Yes I know there is a bit more). And who writes all the code that can do these cool effects, who writes the ultra trippy screensavers that x comes with? PROGRAMMERS.

If you have an argument to this (and not just "x11 fuck off") please make it.

(I posted this because I think an argument may bring some life to the forum and soforth, and because im bored).

[Refalm]

x11 fuck off

[Canadian Lover]

Yea! you're giving Apple a bad name!

[ May 24, 2003: Message edited by: The all Microsoft hater ]

[Pissed_Macman]

X11, you can twist anything to look any way, but that will still never make you right.

[GoodwillMan]

Looks like I win the argument, gee that makes me feel good. This forum is fucked because everybody is to pussy to bother with a nice flame war.

[Pissed_Macman]

Or maybe its because we just don't care about your idiotic opinions. You think you've won a flame war and you're still not happy? What was the point of starting the "flame war" then?

[ May 24, 2003: Message edited by: Macman: HAS 1000 POSTS ]

[preacher]

quote:Originally posted by Thy killer of thee good threads:
Macman said that programming is not "art" well, then Photoshopping is not art. I decided not to post this in the GRAVE YARD thread because well. I just made a new thread because I can

Who is doing the work? In Photoshop (And GIMP and all the others) most people make images using filters, scripts, and other crap, and they do a bit of cropping and soforth. (Yes I know there is a bit more). And who writes all the code that can do these cool effects, who writes the ultra trippy screensavers that x comes with? PROGRAMMERS.

If you have an argument to this (and not just "x11 fuck off") please make it.

(I posted this because I think an argument may bring some life to the forum and soforth, and because im bored).

Let me explain why people who use photoshop are creating art. Lets look at a painting. It starts out as several different colors of pain that are splotched onto a canvas in an organized manner. Th fact that paint is on a canvas does not make it art. The fact that it is organized and appreciated by it audience makes it art.

The same goes for photoshop. No the person didnt physically create the artwork, but they organized it in a way that was structured and appreciated by an audience. Ive included the definition to the word "art". Things created under photoshop seem to adhere to the definition.

#  Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.
#

   1. The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.
   2. The study of these activities.
   3. The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group.

# High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value.
# A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature.
# A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts.
#

   1. A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building.
   2. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer.

#

   1. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art.
   2. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: "Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice" (Joyce Carol Oates).

#

   1. arts Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks.
   2. Artful contrivance; cunning.

[billy_gates]

quote:Originally posted by ThePreacher:


Let me explain why people who use photoshop are creating art. Lets look at a painting. It starts out as several different colors of pain that are splotched onto a canvas in an organized manner. Th fact that paint is on a canvas does not make it art. The fact that it is organized and appreciated by it audience makes it art.

The same goes for photoshop. No the person didnt physically create the artwork, but they organized it in a way that was structured and appreciated by an audience. Ive included the definition to the word "art". Things created under photoshop seem to adhere to the definition..

So what is the difference between colors being organized in a way that pleases the audience and code that is organized in such a way that pleases the audience.  I don't see the difference.

I'm not a programmer, but the slight amount of programming I have done (i personally wouldn't consider art) but a select few programs I would call art.

And really, what is the problem with X11, he doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong.  So what if he trolls, and fucks with your guys' heads.  We are all here because we don't like Microsoft.  He is here because he doesn't like Microsoft.  Let's leave it at that.  We don't have to attack his character (he doesn't have to attack ours either)
Just my 2 cents

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Billy Gates: Mac Comrade Captain ]

[psyjax]

I personaly belive programming ican be an artform. It involves much skill and creativity and allows you to express yourself uniquely. To a programmer, good, clean, efficient code, does have an asthetic value  

And a usefull programm can easely be apreciated by it's audience. Ya, proging is an art.

[xyle_one]

i guess programming is an art. but that depends on your definition of what art is. art is order in chaos to express a feeling. art is not logical, and not merely pretty colors and composition.  look at Jean Michel Basquiat. pure emotion and no order. programming is not like this. programming is structured and can be perfected. its the difference between the left brain and the right brain.

[Pissed_Macman]

I suppose anything could be conceived as art, but the kind of art photoshop creates and the kind of art programming creates are two different kinds. Am I right?

[xyle_one]

quote:Originally posted by Macman: HAS 1000 POSTS:
I suppose anything could be conceived as art, but the kind of art photoshop creates and the kind of art programming creates are two different kinds. Am I right?

yep. anything can be called art. i forget the names, but there was this guy who shit in bottles on the 70's, and people started snatching them up recently calling it "brilliant" or something. there was also a guy who would arrange garbage in a room, and got a show at some big mueum. the janitor 'cleaned' that room at night thinking it was actuall garbage. needless to say, the museum heads were not pleased. so, yeah, anything can be art. and that drives me insane.

[psyjax]

quote:Originally posted by ecsyle:

yep. anything can be called art. i forget the names, but there was this guy who shit in bottles on the 70's, and people started snatching them up recently calling it "brilliant" or something. there was also a guy who would arrange garbage in a room, and got a show at some big mueum. the janitor 'cleaned' that room at night thinking it was actuall garbage. needless to say, the museum heads were not pleased. so, yeah, anything can be art. and that drives me insane.

Ya, alot of people don't like the post-modern stuff that's been around since the 60's. But to be fair, who's to say their wrong? Who's to say they don't actually belive in their work?

I mean Van Gogh was concidered a hack all his life, and no one liked his stuff till long after his death. And in Van Gogh's writtings we can see a man with deep convictions who actually had strong ties to the work he created. So who's to say Garbage guy is wrong? I mean, I don't like it, but if he belives in it, and is somehow expressing something he needs to express, then why isn't it art?

This is like one of those eternal questions with no real answers. Art is what you make of it, I really think that. One generation may concider one thing art while another not.

For example, the Romans thought that the Egyptian busts (the egyptians first developed them) were severed heads! They thought the sculptures grotesque. It wasent until later generations that the romans adopted the bust and recognized it's asthetic qualities.

Who's to say that in 10 years or so we all won't want some shit in a bottle, cuz darn if that just ain't prety     ...

hehehe...

But back to topic:

I think programming is like a paintbrush, and painting techniques. It's what you create with it that is art.

[xyle_one]

quote:Originally posted by psyjax: plain 'ol psyjax:


Ya, alot of people don't like the post-modern stuff that's been around since the 60's. But to be fair, who's to say their wrong? Who's to say they don't actually belive in their work?

I mean Van Gogh was concidered a hack all his life, and no one liked his stuff till long after his death. And in Van Gogh's writtings we can see a man with deep convictions who actually had strong ties to the work he created. So who's to say Garbage guy is wrong? I mean, I don't like it, but if he belives in it, and is somehow expressing something he needs to express, then why isn't it art?

This is like one of those eternal questions with no real answers. Art is what you make of it, I really think that. One generation may concider one thing art while another not.

For example, the Romans thought that the Egyptian busts (the egyptians first developed them) were severed heads! They thought the sculptures grotesque. It wasent until later generations that the romans adopted the bust and recognized it's asthetic qualities.

Who's to say that in 10 years or so we all won't want some shit in a bottle, cuz darn if that just ain't prety      ...

hehehe...

But back to topic:

I think programming is like a paintbrush, and painting techniques. It's what you create with it that is art.

yeah. it depends on your definition. my definition of art is different than yours. its a matter of opinion. i do not think shit in a bottle is art. but that doesnt mean its not. i understand that. i can see how programming is an artform, but i cant appreciate it as an art. maybe because i am not a programmer, and do not really understand. i don't know. fuck it. opinions cannot be disproved.

[Pantso]

A work of art is a unique creation of a certain aesthetical, historical and cultural value. I don't agree that programming is an art form especially since no human emotions are involved in the process. This is just me though and I see that a lot of you disagree with that, as I happen to disagree with you.