Something for all you Europeans

[mushrooomprince]

http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/News/020225a.asp

And your saying the US is messed up ?

[Pissed_Macman]

Jeez what is it with the French? First trying to control how people use the language then restricting religious freedom? What a buncha dumbasses!! Goooo freedom fries!!!

[suselinux]

quote:Originally posted by mushrooomprince:
http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/News/020225a.asp

And your saying the US is messed up ?

 

quote:churches like one CBN News visited in the town of Mulhouse, are under suspicion. Such scenes of absolute devotion to God are-----fanatical, irrational  

 religion is just too objective.  Americans don't allow fanatical Jihads
to take place (9/11), why should France allow Fanatical Christians to practice, who knows what they'll do!  Besides France and the rest of Europe has seen the effects of Christian Fanatics (Nazi's/WW2)

Believe in What ever you want to, but religion is a crock anyway, if you believe in god, or gods, or satan for that matter, you've been brain washed.  Or your so emotionally pathetic that you need that crutch in your life.

If there was a god we would not have to be taught religion, we would be born knowing it.  I was born Not knowing of any God, so now I know there is no god.

And do Americans not see that there country is as fanatically Christan as Iran is Muslim?

Become a Buddhist, all you have to believe in is that its better to live life without malice

[Laukev7]

This looks more like an anti-sect campaign. I can understand them wanting to protect their language, but I couldn't imagine why they would want to control religion. I could be wrong, of course.

I am an agnostic (not an atheist), though, and it is my personal opinion that religions should't even exist. I find that religions are just as unfounded as sects, though not as extremist and dogmatic. The only real purpose of religions is to give people a common code of ethics (not to say control them), in a convoluted and indefinite manner, along with hundreds of useless rituals.

 

quote: If there was a god we would not have to be taught religion, we would be born knowing it. I was born Not knowing of any God, so now I know there is no god.

You took the words right out of my mouth, so to speak.

[ July 25, 2003: Message edited by: Laukev7 ]

[jasonlane]

One thing that you have more in the States is freedom of religion, I mean you do have so many crazy, whacko sects over there. The Catholic church in Europe has, or thinks it has way to much power. They always try and beat down other groups that might take their trade away, Greece is even worse for this type of thing. Spain used to be really bad like this. Personally I think they should all be banned. A little extreme perhaps, I know

[ July 28, 2003: Message edited by: Zardoz ]

[Faust]

quote:
religion is just too objective.

SUBjective is the word your looking for.

 

quote:
Believe in What ever you want to, but religion is a crock anyway, if you believe in god, or gods, or satan for that matter, you've been brain washed. Or your so emotionally pathetic that you need that crutch in your life.

Einstein was brain washed?  HOLY FUCKING SHIT!  Or was it the emotional crutches?  Some VERY intelligent people believe in God numb nuts - yes, many are conformist morons, but so are many anti god idiots.  I have seen high school students try to take on people who have phds in mathematics over the God issue - and the atheist high school students think they know that God doesn't exist because they're "smarter."  (Really a lot of people that dont believe in God are just following the crowd and havent really thought through the issue.  Admit it.  Atheism is cool.)  Im not saying you should have to believe in an all powerful being - really some of the arguments put forward for Gods existence are a bit lame (the design argument) or plain circular (anything by Descartes.)  But you cant disprove the existence of a God either - try and keep fascist ideas about control to yourself please?

Unless you _want_ me to start refering to you as the thought police.

[Faust]

quote:
I am an agnostic (not an atheist), though, and it is my personal opinion that religions should't even exist. I find that religions are just as unfounded as sects, though not as extremist and dogmatic.

Well thats your opinion and you're entitled to it.  And should you ever try and forcefully ban all religions some day I hope the world ignores you.  You have no more right to define someone elses beliefs than say a Cleric or Priest has a right to define your beliefs.

[Faust]

quote:
Passing a controversial anti-cult law two years ago, France embarked on what some feared was a trend to restrict and oversee religious movements

You cant say the US FBI doesnt do the same Mushroom prince - when a religious group becomes a danger to the rest of the community or starts trying to brainwash people into following their beliefs the community needs protection.

That said I've read further : The church of scientology?  Jehovas Witnesses?  WTF?  Not what I'd be calling a "cult" here.  They may have some...  "different"  (eh he he, funny IMO) beliefs, but their not exactly dangerous.

[ July 28, 2003: Message edited by: Faust ]

[Faust]

quote:
Or your so emotionally pathetic that you need that crutch in your life.

Some people would say the same about blind belief in Science.  Really Dead _and_ Alive cats?  Nice one...    and I'm not just talking about non atheists here - too much scientific thought these days does not rest upon proof or evidence.  Infinite levels of dimensions?  Superstrings as a replacement for quarks/besons?  Thats all nice, but face the fact that nothing can ever explain the world - you must always base your beliefs upon fundamental axioms which can never be proven.  If you believe otherwise go read some Kant / Descartes.  Anyone know what phlogiston is?  EVERYONE believed in that stuff, but hey years later it turns out phlogiston is bullshit.  Things burn by oxidation, releasing energy from shifting electron states and transferring that energy into vibrating carbon atoms within a CO2 molecule, there really is no phlogiston in flammable materials that makes them burn.  But EVERYONE believed in non existent phlogistion because Scientists said it was there.  By the way the above is how stuff really burns.  (Well thats the thory of the day anyway    )  Quite a bit more  complicated than the standard "simplification" (face it, lies) that most people were taught about how things burn in school.

Interesting note:  The speed of light was constant according to science.  Less than a year ago Sydney University showed information showing that it...  er probably isnt constant folks.  

Blind belief in science is just the same as blind belief in religion - a crutch to help people get through their lives.

Edit: cmon peeps, some of you atheists must be pissed about this...  i wanna see some blind "i dont know what Im talking about and I use science to make the world seem nice simple and understandable to me"  flaming.      

[ July 28, 2003: Message edited by: Faust ]

[ July 28, 2003: Message edited by: Faust ]

[Faust]

Little girl: You believe in evolution dont you sir?
Jack Cohen(phd in biology): No I dont believe in evolution, like people believe in God - science is advanced by people who dont know but are doing there best to find out"

How many of you _believe_ in evolution?

This is from Terry Pratchetts "Science of Discworld" btw.  The chapter I pulled that quote from also has some interesting exploration of "lies to children," how kids in schools are taught _dramatically_ simplified explanations so that later on they can be told "ah, thats wrong because..."  and then be taught the more complex version.  I also expect my perception on how things burn (above) to be another simplification, and Im sure some peeps with phds in chemistry / particle physics will see it as such.  

[Faust]

quote:
If there was a god we would not have to be taught religion, we would be born knowing it. I was born Not knowing of any God, so now I know there is no god.

Fucking great argument, typical atheist "because it's trendy" logic.
Lemme try one of my own - I was born not knowing who my father was so he doesnt exist.  Same applies to my aunts and uncles of course.  
Eh he he, your funny dude.
What makes you think that a God would want you to believe in it?  Do you have any evidence that a God would try and make you believe in it?  Or is this claim just baseless blind belief?  

[jasonlane]

quote:Originally posted by Faust:

That said I've read further : The church of scientology?  Jehovas Witnesses?  WTF?  Not what I'd be calling a "cult" here.  They may have some...  "different"  (eh he he, funny IMO) beliefs, but their not exactly dangerous.

[ July 28, 2003: Message edited by: Faust ]

I had to endure 18 years of it my parents are JW's but there certainly not a cult. The church of scientology? well there just weird and take all your money. Nope religion's not for me why???

I personally believe that beliefs are usually a dangerous thing, beliefs or doctrines usually can't be changed, there immovable. That's why people go to war in the name of religion, besides the fact that every religion teaches that any kind of killing is wrong they still do it because of belief. Ideas are better because they can usually change, ther not dogmatic, stubborn.

I certainly don't "believe" in religion, that isn't to say there might not be a God. If there is one, religion is not speaking for him and if it is then I don't want to know that sort of god anyway.

[Pissed_Macman]

Scientology's hilarious. It was basically created to prove how gullable people are and even after the creator said it was all fake people kept believing it! If you talk to a scientologist about this they'll sort of act surprised then pretend like they don't care. People are such gullable, ignorant, dumbasses!

[jasonlane]

Yes they are very crazy, they basically believe....hmmm, well have you seen the film "Battle Field Earth" (think that's the one), well that's their beliefs. Travolta was a Scientologist, don't know if he still is. The whole org is also modelled on the navy....Eh?!?!?!?

[Pissed_Macman]

That movie sucked ass.