Author Topic: Vista, Mac OS X Clone?  (Read 9765 times)

Lead Head

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #75 on: 5 April 2006, 00:16 »
P3s didnt throttle, the "Froze". And you shouldn't be glad. P4s are the hotest running thing around now. Actually the a Athlon XPs had the stuff to shut down properly in an event like that, but lazy mobo manufactures didn't put the nesacey stuff on the boards to make it work.

Current P4s can't throttle like that P4 and keep running without a heatsink.

Athlon 64s run much cooler then P4s right now, and they also shutdown if they overheat to.

Dunno why people compare stuff thats 5 years old to current stuff
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H_TeXMeX_H

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #76 on: 5 April 2006, 04:32 »
Quote from: Lead Head
Athlon 64s run much cooler then P4s right now, and they also shutdown if they overheat to.

Not quite:

http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm

Max case temp: (Higher is better)
Sempron 3400+ (2.0GHz - 256KB). .  .  .  . . .   69

Xeniczone

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #77 on: 5 April 2006, 21:12 »
that data isn't up to date or accurate.

Even if it is correct it shows that the top of the line AMD runs 5degrees c cooler then the P4 top of the line. And AMD top of the line out proforms intels p4 top of the line. So what you have just showed us is that AMD runs cooler and out proforms intel thxs for agreeing.
 
Intels run at 170 degrees F. (intel p4 em64t 3.0ghz) That is HOT. if you needed to matenence your computer you would have to wait for it to cool off before you touch anything near the cpu or you will burn yourself.
 
The test that shows amds going up in flame I agree with to a certain extent.
 
First, it didn't show that the pentium 3 will never work correctly again. Once the pentium 3 overheats it is gone forever you will be able to use it again but after 30min of use it will pause and contiune this because something inside it is messed up.
 
The pentium 4 I dont' know what will happen to it i have never overheated one. Since it is a intel i would say it may have the same effects as the pentium 3 if you leave it on too long with it overheating it will just die.
 
Amds when they overheat they die end of story but you really don't need to put too much care (or at least not as much as you do with intel) into keeping them cool because amds don't push the clock limit like intel. They look for other ways to make there cpus fast without clock speed.
 
But as it was said most newer motherboards when the computer overheats it will disconnect the power and turn off the computer before the cpu reaches it's critical heating point.

Lead Head

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #78 on: 5 April 2006, 21:37 »
@ Tex, in fact you are wrong. EVERY athlon 64 supports thermal shutdown. Tomshardware did another test with an FX 51, it shutdown. They comapared in to a 3Ghz or something P4, It didnt throttle, it shutdown just like the FX-51. The Athlons and Athlon XPs had rather poor thermal shutdown specs and stuff but not the Atlhon 64s. Also the power isnt cut the the CPU in Athlon 64s, it shutdowns the entire system. If you look, Current P4s do the same

@Zone, you are wrong to. I took the heatsink of a 800Mhz P3, and let it sit even after it froze. I Came back a few minutes later, Turned the system off, put the sink pack on, powered the rig up and too the heatsink off again and let it freeze, onces again i powered it down and put the sink back on. Now its happily running Rosetta @ Home on unbuntu.
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cymon

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #79 on: 5 April 2006, 21:58 »
Not quite. A fellow had his X2 4800+ run for quite a while with the watercooling turned off. The 'auto shutdown' feature was disabled by default in the BIOS. Only thing that saved the A64 was the large copper cooling block.

Lead Head

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #80 on: 5 April 2006, 22:08 »
I didn't say it couldn't be disabled...I said every Athlon 64 and Mobo supports it
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Orethrius

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #81 on: 6 April 2006, 04:48 »
Quote from: Xeniczone
that data isn't up to date or accurate.

That claim requires counter-evidence to even BEGIN to hold water, so where's your source?

Quote from: Xeniczone
Even if it is correct it shows that the top of the line AMD runs 5degrees c cooler then the P4 top of the line.

Apparently, you've never seen an inverse-comparison before.  That chart displays the cut-off temperature for the processors, where a higher temperature indicates a higher heat-tolerance.  It's not a chart of typical operating temperatures, so your logic is flawed.

Quote from: Xeniczone
And AMD top of the line out proforms intels p4 top of the line. So what you have just showed us is that AMD runs cooler and out proforms intel thxs for agreeing.

Actually, he just showed that AMD can't sustain higher operating temperatures for any length of time, and I fail to see where performance entered that little comparison.  Nice try, though.  ;)
 
Quote from: Xeniczone
Intels run at 170 degrees F. (intel p4 em64t 3.0ghz)

Again, what is your source for this information?  If it's the previous chart, 70.8 C is 159.44 F, not 170 F.

Quote from: Xeniczone
That is HOT. if you needed to matenence your computer you would have to wait for it to cool off before you touch anything near the cpu or you will burn yourself.

This is why you don't put your fingers under the heatsink at ANY point in time, unless replacing the CPU.  There are established procedures for that eventuality.  Also, if your CPU is conducting heat back down your motherboard, you have bigger problems than hot components.
 
Quote from: Xeniczone
The test that shows amds going up in flame I agree with to a certain extent.

It's called disabling the heat monitor from the BIOS.  Not just AMDs will go up in flames if the operator pulls that crap.
 
Quote from: Xeniczone
First, it didn't show that the pentium 3 will never work correctly again. Once the pentium 3 overheats it is gone forever you will be able to use it again but after 30min of use it will pause and contiune this because something inside it is messed up.

Actually, this is true of any processor.  If you run it overheated for any extended period of time, pins tend to melt.  Hell, you're lucky if it doesn't arc and burn a good half of the inlays.  Both of these are exceptions to cooling measures.
 
Quote from: Xeniczone
The pentium 4 I dont' know what will happen to it i have never overheated one. Since it is a intel i would say it may have the same effects as the pentium 3 if you leave it on too long with it overheating it will just die.

Try it and see.  If you're willing to pay shipping, I may have a P4-capable motherboard I can send you for experimental purposes, but you'll need a processor and possibly RAM for it.
 
Quote from: Xeniczone
Amds when they overheat they die end of story but you really don't need to put too much care (or at least not as much as you do with intel) into keeping them cool because amds don't push the clock limit like intel. They look for other ways to make there cpus fast without clock speed.

Which is why AMD doesn't have the market cornered on overclocking, right?  Nobody EVER overclocks the Athlons in their gaming rigs, RIGHT?  The point is that people are going to do stupid things with their purchases, and when they do, they'd rather have a processor made to handle extremities than one that is not.
 
Quote from: Xeniczone
But as it was said most newer motherboards when the computer overheats it will disconnect the power and turn off the computer before the cpu reaches it's critical heating point.

Which it will, if nobody disables the BIOS setting for this measure.  It's not going to save data, your PC will just spontaneously die.  Alphas are not immune to this effect, let alone AMDs.

Proudly posted from a Gentoo Linux system.

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even if you're renting you've got more rights than if you're using windows.

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toadlife

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #82 on: 6 April 2006, 10:24 »
How the heck did this devolve into a AMD vs Intel thermal performance thread?

I've been using AMD's since the k6 and AMD allways ran hotter than Intel, until the A64 came out.

My athlonXP 2100 ran at around 60C and peaked at around 70C. This was normal. My athlonXP 2800 was pretty much the same as my 2100. It ran hot. My Current A64x2 4400 runs at 46C and peaks at around 52C. A huge difference from the XP line.

The AthlonXP line of processors did not support any kind of thermal shutdown or throttling on the chip. As a result, motherboard makers implimented it into their motherbords in order to save Athlons from themselves when fans burnt out. Bascially the motherboard would power the entire system down when the chip got too hot. It was very crude, but effective.
:)

toadlife

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #83 on: 6 April 2006, 10:51 »
This thread piqued my interest in the thermal features of the Athlon64, so I downloaded a little utility from AMD. I'm impressed. MY processor sits at 1GHZ and 1.1volts while idle and instanty throttles up to 2.2GHZ when used.

Check out these before and after screenies.

Sitting Idle (1ghz):
http://www.toadlife.net/stuff/forum_pics/idle.PNG

Running Racer (2ghz):
http://www.toadlife.net/stuff/forum_pics/inuse.PNG

Notice how the CPU fan automatically kicks up from 1000RPM to 2800RPM when the processor throttles up.
:)

Jack2000

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #84 on: 6 April 2006, 14:44 »
nice !:)

ps : what are you playing there ?

Refalm

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #85 on: 6 April 2006, 15:22 »
Looks like this one:
http://www.racer.nl/

Moderatly fun, played it a few times, then removed it.

solemnwarning

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #86 on: 6 April 2006, 19:08 »
My Athlon XP 3200+ average temp is 30-36C, goes up to 40-48C when i do a lot of heavy processing stuff like compiling or running ut2k4
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
 Version: 3.1
 GCS/CM d- s+:+ a--- C++ UL++++>$ P+ L+++ !E W++ !N !o !K-- w !O !M !V PS+ PE- !Y !PGP !t !5 !X !R tv b+ DI+ !D G e- h !r y-
 ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

toadlife

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #87 on: 6 April 2006, 19:08 »
Quote from: Refalm
Looks like this one:
http://www.racer.nl/

Moderatly fun, played it a few times, then removed it.

Yep. And there is a version for Linux and Mac too. ;)
:)

Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #88 on: 6 April 2006, 19:59 »
This isn't worth arguing about since the processor temperature depends on the ambient temperature. If you want to do this scientifically you should be measuring the temperature rise, this will depend on the thermal conductivity of die to heat pad, the heatsink, ventilation and power dissipation of the chip.

There are so many different factors you can't compare between makes of processor other than to say that the safest one will have the lowest power consumption, the highest die operating temperature and thermal conductivity between the pad and die.
This is not a Windows help forum, however please do feel free to sign up and agree or disagree with our views on Microsoft.

Oh and FUCKMicrosoft! :fu:

H_TeXMeX_H

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Re: Vista, Mac os Clone.
« Reply #89 on: 7 April 2006, 00:39 »
Quote from: toadlife
The AthlonXP line of processors did not support any kind of thermal shutdown or throttling on the chip. As a result, motherboard makers implimented it into their motherbords in order to save Athlons from themselves when fans burnt out. Bascially the motherboard would power the entire system down when the chip got too hot. It was very crude, but effective.

Thanks ... that's what I meant :D

Quote from: toadlife
My athlonXP 2100 ran at around 60C and peaked at around 70C. This was normal. My athlonXP 2800 was pretty much the same as my 2100. It ran hot. My Current A64x2 4400 runs at 46C and peaks at around 52C. A huge difference from the XP line.

My 2.8 Ghz P4 runs around 57 C idle - 75 C under heavy stress (compiling large program)

@ Orethrius that's a mighty fine response to Xeniczone's rant-like reply ... thanks for that, didn't have the patience to do it myself :D
« Last Edit: 7 April 2006, 03:18 by H_TeXMeX_H »