Author Topic: Users or fans?  (Read 3695 times)

Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Users or fans?
« Reply #15 on: 3 July 2010, 01:37 »
Looks cool but no tactile feedback..

You can also get roll up rubber keyboards which I don't like.

Worker,
I'm sure sales of smartphones will continue to rise but I just can't see many dropping their desktop for it.

Would you?

Anyway, there's no point in arguing about it when neither of us can be proven right or wrong until the future comes.

« Last Edit: 3 July 2010, 03:03 by Aloone_Jonez »
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piratePenguin

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Re: Users or fans?
« Reply #16 on: 3 July 2010, 02:13 »
The future is keyboards.

worker, what else do you think will replace them?

"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
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a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

worker201

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Re: Users or fans?
« Reply #17 on: 4 July 2010, 00:58 »
I think voice recognition will become more popular and reliable.  I can also envision devices like Wacom tablets that are also touchscreen keyboards and trackpads.  I also know plenty of people (most of them children) who can type at amazing speeds using touchscreens, and find keyboards clunky.  It might take awhile (10-20 years), but I think the keyboard is ultimately doomed.

piratePenguin

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Re: Users or fans?
« Reply #18 on: 4 July 2010, 01:51 »
I think voice recognition will become more popular and reliable.  I can also envision devices like Wacom tablets that are also touchscreen keyboards and trackpads.  I also know plenty of people (most of them children) who can type at amazing speeds using touchscreens, and find keyboards clunky.  It might take awhile (10-20 years), but I think the keyboard is ultimately doomed.
Search my buzz for voice recognition, quality read, though it's just one mans opinion and I don't think I'll agree in a few years time - but that is where we are at the moment. While you're at it look at the augmented reality article, it's pretty cool (but more distant-future).

http://www.google.com/profiles/piratepenguin

I believe (unlike others) that voice recognition will become pretty good (and it will take a while) - I can see Google being a major innovator here (and not Apple, Apple are marketing smart, Google are far far more book smart) since a) they've entered (Google voice, automatic youtube transcription which currently sucks) and more importantly b) they have youtube videos and a community writing subtitles for audio, and they normally do interesting things with what they've got (so the transcription which sucks, will learn!) - also I can only think it is this way that voice recognition will match, and eventually beat, human accuracy. Google may have a plan to do this soon infact, who knows what they're up to. I do know that the problem of voice recognition will require new techniques, and someone at google is probably smart enough to be onto something.

edit: there is still a lot a lot wrong with the idea of using primarily your voice for computer input - I think a lot of people would never use it in public, and it would probably be bad manners (something like that can change), on top of the reasons in the article I referred to. Possibly the main uses for it are, hands-free operation necessary in cars (where the technology is already there or thereabouts already (if you're setting up a call, not if you're writing a message)) and automatic subtitling.

I could be writing my own voice recognition app before the summers out  ^^ (it seems like this isn't a big task) At least, this is super high on the list of things I want to have a very good understanding of.
« Last Edit: 4 July 2010, 02:07 by piratePenguin »
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Users or fans?
« Reply #19 on: 4 July 2010, 02:26 »
I don't care how good voice recognition ever becomes, I can't see it replacing keyboards because it'll never work well in noisy environments and the user won't necessarily want others to hear what they're they're saying.

Tactile feedback isn't the only reason why touch screens are shit, it's poor ergonomics. Sitting at my desktop, I have the keyboard set near my lap so I can look ahead at the screen to see what I'm typing. Using a touch screen, I'd either have to make do with a tiny portable with the keyboard occupying most of the screen or I'd have to have my hands held vertically.

Touch screens are good for replacing the mouse on portables or at kiosks where providing a mouse isn't practical.

They only way to get rid of keyboards is to have some sort of brain scanner which can accurately read the user's mind but in order to catch on it needs to be easy to use, comfortable and not require too much practise to get the hang of.
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piratePenguin

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Re: Users or fans?
« Reply #20 on: 4 July 2010, 03:23 »
Quote
I don't care how good voice recognition ever becomes, I can't see it replacing keyboards because it'll never work well in noisy environments and the user won't necessarily want others to hear what they're they're saying.
Lip-reading!!!

I think you've pinned it all down in that post.

There are good alternatives to keyboards in the form of alternate input interfaces for touch devices. There's a cool one I've used (it was free software and I checked it out on my ubuntu), but speed is the issue with many of these interfaces, I imagine if they could compete with the king - that is keyboards, they would be all over the iPhone/Android devices.
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

piratePenguin

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Re: Users or fans?
« Reply #21 on: 6 July 2010, 16:15 »
For alternative input methods, see dasher (as I recall it was developed for particular devices, people with disabilities, and such applications, it was not designed to be an alternative to a keyboard. Also I used to be able to use dasher fairly quickly (uncomparable to typing still) - this demo is set to a really really slow mode).

It's an interesting idea, but it still isn't a replacement for an on-screen keyboard.

On-screen keyboards are suitable for phones imo, but a device like an ipad should have a (detachable) physical keyboard of sorts. This is certainly the present situation for me, and in the future we'd require something radical to change this. Some out of the box thinking such as dasher.
« Last Edit: 6 July 2010, 16:18 by piratePenguin »
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

Lead Head

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Re: Users or fans?
« Reply #22 on: 8 July 2010, 04:56 »
That dasher thing seems interesting, but both the guys videos start getting choppy and un-watchable for some reason. Couldn't really see how it was working.
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piratePenguin

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Re: Users or fans?
« Reply #23 on: 8 July 2010, 14:52 »
You can get it in the ubuntu repositories and suse repositories and try it yourself.

Also see http://www.google.ie/search?q=android+dasher
I like this, but I really don't think it will be faster than touch typing - on a phone, on a slate like the ipad where typing is SO uncomfortable (it seems; I've no experience with an ipad), however, dasher may be an answer.

There are other alternatives to touch keyboards on the ipad too, in particular I can imagine breaking the keyboard up so that half the keys are on each side of the display beside where you're holding the device, and such that you can reach for every key without needing to leave the ipad ontop of something (probably necessary to rotate the keys, may take a little getting used to).

Hopefully android tablets at least have some options available, since I actually think this (lack of real input) would be a show-stopper for the ipad for me, but it could be solved, and one day I may want a tablet.

edit: heres the best dasher vid I've seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-WLiY2p1LQ&feature=related btw when it appears to break up, it's because the operator is moving the cursor closer to the center, to take time to find the next letter. (it uses predictive text so that probable next letters are bigger than less probable ones)
« Last Edit: 8 July 2010, 15:00 by piratePenguin »
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

Lead Head

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Re: Users or fans?
« Reply #24 on: 8 July 2010, 17:04 »
That is actually pretty interesting. Can't imagine anyone trying to send text messages quickly on something like that though.

As far as your half keyboard idea, it would basically be like this, but done in software on a touchscreen?

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piratePenguin

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Re: Users or fans?
« Reply #25 on: 8 July 2010, 20:10 »
Basically, with the rows oriented towards the side (where the fingers are). I can see it working, but it may not be fast. I think we're familiar enough to be able to adapt to that - and we get comfortable typing (not as fast as a real keyboard).

The problem the ipad has to deal with isn't even that typing on it isn't fast (it is if you use your entire body or an appropriate object) - it's that you need (at least) one hand to hold it, otherwise you need to use your body.

But, as is readily known, the ipad isn't designed for replacing computers, it's designed for media consumption. I hope future devices take a more opportunistic approach. Android allows this experimenting, so I'm expecting it.
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Users or fans?
« Reply #26 on: 8 July 2010, 23:21 »
I admit that my fingers are probably too fat to type at any reasonable speed with a decent level of accuracy on that tiny keyboard. Hopefully it has some smart auto-correction software which minimises typographical errors. Unfortunately, auto-correction is a double edge sword and can be annoying when one wants to type unusual words or non-verbal text such as a car registration or post code.
This is not a Windows help forum, however please do feel free to sign up and agree or disagree with our views on Microsoft.

Oh and FUCKMicrosoft! :fu: