Operating Systems > Linux and UNIX
The revolution begins...
Aloone_Jonez:
I was refering to this distro when I said 64MB of RAM.
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That's why a command line should be even more integrated in any GUI.
A GUI itself is bloat
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True.
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What you seem to want is GUI build in the kernel.
That must be the worsed idea ever.
Do you really think any Linux user would like this.
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No.
I just mean that it should be totally unnecessary to learn the command line.
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Even Windows for Workgroups used a native Windows protected mode for some things.
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Yes, you could install a 32 bit library and even run some Win95 software in Win3.11
And there was an earlier implementation of Win32 which is the one I think you're referring too. If I remember rightly it only let you allocate 32-bit memory for data, it was shit because you couldn't executed any code in these "extended 32 bit segments" although you could swap it in and out of them.
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No they shouldn't have. And Windows/386 did not use DOS for memory management
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Then why did you need HIMEM.SYS loaded to run windows?
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When Win95 was released, you didn't need DOS drivers unless you specifically intended to use DOS on its own. The DOS box in Windows would use Windows drivers for everything.
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They souldn't have used MS-DOS in the true sense of the word.
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Recovery console. Included with 2000, XP, and Server 2003.
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I knew someone would say this.
Have you ever used recovery console before?
Do you know how much shit it really sucks?
You can't run any programs, either 32-bit console or 16-bit DOS.
It doesn't even allow you access to My Documents.
It doesn't load any CD burning or USB drivers so even if it did it would be fucking useless.
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I fully disagree. DOS was a crutch. It was seriously holding the software back. Look at the difference in Windows Me and Windows 2000. They're very similar, save for Windows Me is built on the Win95 kernel, and 2000 runs on NT.
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I agree with you.
DOS Sucks.
This was just a bad choice of words on my part.
NT should have a proper command line interface. You should have been able to boot Win95 and run 32-bit console programs, use the USB, printer, CD-ROM, all with the windows drivers in text mode. In short, they should have ditched DOS16 back in 95, and used NT, but made the GUI optional. You don't need a GUI for a file server.
Anyway why the fuck are we arguing about Windows?
Windows!
It's not even worth discussion!
I try to do my best to forget the old Windows shit!
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The command line should be there just in case the GUI goes down, and for vary rare ocasions where it is more efficient to use the command line.
You mean kinda the way it is?
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Sort of true, but will knowledge command line be even less inpotant in Komodo Linux?
It would be fucking excellent if all the setting could be adjusted in the GUI. Linux being an operating system that promotes choice, you should also be allowed to use the traditional command line without any graphics if you wish.
How easy will it be to install, set up and troubleshoot new hardware?
You've even said it your self:
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the system needs to be greatly simplified in the respect of hardware troubleshooting.
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If you don't believe me Jimmy then check out this thread: http://forum.microsuck.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=002564&p=3
hm_murdock:
quote:Jimmy you didn't answer my question. I hate you.
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What question? It's possible I missed it with everybody blathering about this off-topic bullshit here.
Aloone_Jonez:
Tux was just ripping the piss out of me, for saying:
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Anyway you haven't answered any of my other questions Jimmy.
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hm_murdock:
quote:I was refering to this distro when I said 64MB of RAM.
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That's totally unrealistic. We're not making a bare-bones, stripped-down system here. Grow a pair and buy some more RAM.
quote:I just mean that it should be totally unnecessary to learn the command line.
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But you just said that there should be a command line in Windows for troubleshooting. Make your damn mind up.
quote:Yes, you could install a 32 bit library and even run some Win95 software in Win3.11
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>sigh<
Thick. There were parts of Windows that were full 386 protected mode dating all the way back to Windows 2.11/386. Windows For Workgroups added "32-bit Disk and File Access", which used 32-bit filesystem drivers.
quote:And there was an earlier implementation of Win32 which is the one I think you're referring too. If I remember rightly it only let you allocate 32-bit memory for data, it was shit because you couldn't executed any code in these "extended 32 bit segments" although you could swap it in and out of them.
--- End quote ---
Earlier implemenation of Win32? You mean Windows NT perhaps?
Look... Win32 is the 32-bit Windows API. You're thinking of "Win32s" which was a free add-on for Windows 3.x that let it run limited 32-bit Windows apps. It wouldn't work with Windows NT or Windows 95 apps, as they utilized the full Win32 API.
quote:Then why did you need HIMEM.SYS loaded to run windows?
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Because Windows loaded as a regular real-mode app that would then switch to protected mode. Without himem, it would not be able to access enough memory to load itself into RAM.
quote:They souldn't have used MS-DOS in the true sense of the word.
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No, they should have used some kind of magical orb that projected the image of DOS instead.
What should they have used then? They were doing their best to provide a good system that maintained backward-compatibility. They pretty much succeeded. You could leave Windows 95 entirely and run in MS-DOS so that you could run troublesome DOS apps. Tell me something... you're an AutoCAD user and you just bought AutoCAD R12, which ran on DOS (it wasn't until later that a Windows version was released). You have the original DOS version, and you get Windows 95.
AutoCAD will NOT run in the Windows 9x DOS box, nor will it run in the NT DOS VM. What you propose is something similar to the NT VDM, therefore, screwing over people who run finnicky apps, like AutoCAD. I don't know about you, but I don't think there's any way that I'd make the decision to drop real DOS support if I were in charge of 95.
[/quote]I knew someone would say this.
Have you ever used recovery console before?
Do you know how much shit it really sucks?
You can't run any programs, either 32-bit console or 16-bit DOS.
It doesn't even allow you access to My Documents.
It doesn't load any CD burning or USB drivers so even if it did it would be fucking useless.[/quote]
That's because it's a recovery console. How about you start a project to create tools that will run on recovery console?
quote:I agree with you.
DOS Sucks.
This was just a bad choice of words on my part.
NT should have a proper command line interface. You should have been able to boot Win95 and run 32-bit console programs, use the USB, printer, CD-ROM, all with the windows drivers in text mode. In short, they should have ditched DOS16 back in 95, and used NT, but made the GUI optional. You don't need a GUI for a file server.
--- End quote ---
As stated before, there's no way that NT would have worked. There were too many bossy DOS apps. Besides, Windows 95 was more advanced than NT in many ways when it was released.
I've got an idea. You go find Windows NT 3.5 and run it and tell me if that's better than 95.
quote:Anyway why the fuck are we arguing about Windows?
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Because you hijacked my thread so that you could bitch about more bullshit.
quote:[FU] Windows!
It's not even worth discussion!
I try to do my best to forget the old Windows shit!
--- End quote ---
Then shut up about it.
quote:Sort of true, but will knowledge command line be even less inpotant in Komodo Linux?
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure about Komodo, but my aim for GenSTEP is to make the command line about as important as it is in OPENSTEP or Mac OS X.
quote:It would be fucking excellent if all the setting could be adjusted in the GUI. Linux being an operating system that promotes choice, you should also be allowed to use the traditional command line without any graphics if you wish.
--- End quote ---
Uh, not in Komodo or GenSTEP. If that's what you want, then get Slackware. Komodo and GenSTEP are optimized through and through for the user, meaning GUI.
quote:How easy will it be to install, set up and troubleshoot new hardware?
--- End quote ---
Seeing as we're still working on our hardware layer, I don't know. We plan it to be true plug-and-play. We hope it to be as good as Mac OS X. That comes with a price though. "Officially supported" hardware will be only a subset of all the hardware that exists today. Beyond that, you'll deal with normal Linux compatibility, which is still quite good.
If you give a shit about the 3D desktop, get a new vid card. That Savage Pro won't cut the mustard.
I kick ass.
Aloone_Jonez:
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That's totally unrealistic. We're not making a bare-bones, stripped-down system here. Grow a pair and buy some more RAM.
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Ok, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. If this OS is going to be as good as you say it is more RAM might be worth the money, but I hope you're not going to expect me to upgrade every year, just to run the latest version.
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But you just said that there should be a command line in Windows for troubleshooting. Make your damn mind up.
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Exactly, when all is well, and you just want to install some hardware or software the command line shouldn't be needed. But if somthing goes wrong with KDE, say an essential file get fucked up, you should be able to boot into text mode command line and be able to fix the problem.
Windows 3.11 used protected mode for many reasons, apart from disk buffers and Win32s, but like you said, I think we're talking about completely differant uses of protected mode in Win3.1 FUCK WINDOWS you're right this isn't the place to talk about Fucking Windows but NT4 kicked Win95Bs arse! If hard drive Fucks up Recovery console should be at least allow you to back up your files!
Oh sorry, I promise to shut up about Windows now.
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We plan it to be true plug-and-play. We hope it to be as good as Mac OS X.
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That's good
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That comes with a price though. "Officially supported" hardware will be only a subset of all the hardware that exists today.
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That's not so good.
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Beyond that, you'll deal with normal Linux compatibility, which is still quite good.
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So I would be right in asuming that if your hardware isn't "Officially supported" you will have install it the usual long winded Linux way, oh well that's not too bad I suppose.
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If you give a shit about the 3D desktop, get a new vid card. That Savage Pro won't cut the mustard.
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That sounds like more bloat to me, unless it has a useful purpose other than to look pretty.
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