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Adding Packages - RedHat 7.3

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Doogee:
hello all.

im having a bit of trouble ading packages in redhat. i need all the development tools but it makes you select individual packages its very annoying and i dont want to do it because it says some crap about dependencies. ive seen screenshots where u can just clik development and it does it, is there anyway i can do this?

Calum:
sorry to hijack this thread but this flags up the problem of there not being a proper package management system for linux yet, its only serious omission. rpm is good however it is not perfect.
I am sorry i cannot help you with this one. i know void main will know the exact answer you need and i know several other people will also. Now at the risk of hijacking your thread, let me just post this:
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I found out about 'install' while ssh-ing into grex, (they have it on their SunOS4.1 twin aplha machine) and i noticed with some surprise that the version they have installed is GNU/FSF! So if this install program is FSF, there will be a linux version, why is that not the standard? I know many would say there are more advanced programs with more advanced features, but are those features just getting in the way?

What we need are to use install as the standard and for the FSF to come up with another program (call it 'dependlist' or something) to be used in conjunction with install to make the dependencygoround much less of a headache for people, and a comprehensive 'installed packages' database system (it should be 100% compatible with the rpm package database) to top off the trio. These utils could use all the normal pipes and so on that other utils use. This philosophy of several small but powerful utilities working together has served *nix for decades and i think it should be upheld for that reason. People will
quickly write frontends that pipe them all together anyway so an increase in functionality needn't mean confusion for the less initiated.

Why do i rarely get dependencies in windows? I don't think i have ever installed a program and had more than one dependency in windows. (and it's NOT often you hear me saying something is better in windows than in linux. Now somebody slap me sharply if this is about to turn into a 'what would be ideal' type thread. that's fine if it is, but i don't want to stop people from answering Doogee's question, so pardon me if i have stolen the limelight, back to Doogee's question now...

Final word: Doogee, do you have kpackage installed? I find it is quite useful, but not perfect. It seems to search the directory that your rpms/.tgz files are in and look for installable files to satisfy the dependencies.

I think gnorpm is okay from memory too. not sure.

[ September 24, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]

voidmain:

quote:Originally posted by Doogee:
hello all.

im having a bit of trouble ading packages in redhat. i need all the development tools but it makes you select individual packages its very annoying and i dont want to do it because it says some crap about dependencies. ive seen screenshots where u can just clik development and it does it, is there anyway i can do this?
--- End quote ---


I assume the RPMs you are trying to install are from the RedHat CD from which you installed RedHat.  If that is not a correct assumption let me know.  If you try and install an RPM and it tells you it depends on another RPM package, install that other RPM package first.

And no matter what anyone tells you, this dependency is a good thing. If it didn't let you know that the package you were trying to install depended on something else and let you install it anyway, you would be scratching your head wondering why it didn't work after you installed it.

Calum:
i know, i know, i agree, however i think there should be some sort of downloadable dependency database. It could list all known programs for *nix, and their dependencies. The program i envision (dependlist, as mentioned above) would access that database remotely or locally (much like the FreeCDDB) and would be able to tell you what dependencies a package would have before you download it for instance.

Also, say the package you are installing has eight dependencies. How many of them have dependencies? well dependlist would be able to tell you.

Of course it would only be as good as its last database update but i think it could work.

though, i still say, why do i get less dependencies in windows? it's either because everything's bundled (ie everybody is reinventing the wheel) or because the programs are installing without even checking for dependencies, yes? i prefer the former. Maybe RPMs should come in normal format and 'dependencies included' format. Where it could be like a big tarball of all the dependencies as well as the program. Especially useful if you had a different version of a program than that which is required (like all that rubbish about some things need gcc 2.96 to compile, and some won't compile on gcc 2.96)

voidmain:
Regarding the database of dependencies etc.  That already exists.  You have an RPM database on your hard drive that contains the name of the RPM, the version, what the RPM depends on (other packages and minimum version levels), a file list, etc etc. Say you get a new RPM, within that RPM in addition to the actual software is a dependency list. This list is matched up with your database to determine if you have all minimum prereqs installed. The biggest wish most people probably have are that RPM resolves these dependencies automatically (by downloading and installing prerequisite software automatically).  That would be a nice option to turn on and there are utilities out there that can do this but it is not something *I* would prefer.  I can see where n00bs would prefer this.

However, this functionality exists if you use Ximian's Red Carpet program (download and install drom Ximian's web site) and similar RPM apps. In fact I think RedHat 8.0's new installer will do this for you as well but I haven't actually had a chance to look at it yet.

With Windows some applications do dependency checking.  They typically check which version of Windows you are running and if you don't use a specific version of Windows it may not allow you to install it. But the base Windows OS never changes. You don't do functionality upgrades on specific pieces of the OS, except for things like IE etc, in which case how many times have you installed a windows app and it says it requires "IE 5.5 or above"?  Or worse yet, it assumes you have IE 5.5 and installs anyway only to find out that it doesn't work without IE 5.5.  Same difference.  

Windows install method is completely brain dead compared to RPM.  Just open up kpackage for a minor scratching of what RPM can do for you. Believe me, kpackage only presents 1% of the RPM capability but it still gives you a lot more information about the installed programs.

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