Operating Systems > Linux and UNIX
The Fast-Food Syndrome: The Linux Platform is Getting Fat
Aloone_Jonez:
quote:Originally posted by flap:
So what's the point of having the other 90%?
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To run your applications, the OS shouldn't be the main strain on system resources.
quote: Hardware that wouldn't be so powerful if it wan't for OS makers(namely MS) upping the minimum sys requirements each time they released a new OS.
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Partly true I admit but hardware wouldn't need to be so powerful if the OS handled the resources efficiently.
quote: Nowadays a person who does professional Audio/Video/image work can get alot more done in less time thanks to the speed of modern computers(not to mention the better hardware gives them better quality work as well).
Come to think of it. Any real work people use a computer for gets done alot faster now than it ever did back in the day due to our hardware being so powerful
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And they would get a lot more done if it wasn't for the OS hogging way too much memory.
quote: I also will add that prices are for the better now.
Back in the late 80's a complete 386 system w/8MB of Ram, less than 200MB hard drive, shitty video subsystem, etc. could've been as expensive as $5,000. The scenario was the same with the 486 when it was 1st introduced. The prices started getting a little better when in the Pentium age.
Nowadays though we can get/build a complete system that will simply run rings around that old stuff thousands of times in a minute for less than $700.
I remember back in the day a 16MB stick of 66mhz 72-pin EDO memory went for over $130.
Nowadays a 512MB stick of 200mhz Double Data Rate(effectively 400mhz) ram(PC3200) can be had for less than $100. Obviously the modern, cheaper memory is infinitley better than what could be had for more back then.
The same thing goes for hard drives. Back in the day a 2GB hard drive could cost over $200. Now $200 will buy you a hard drive over 200GB. The old 2GB hard drives ran in PIO mode(mode 4 went no faster than 12MB per sec. and PIO mode used alot of CPU cycles). The modern 200GB+ hard drives are capable of doing 133MB per sec(PATA/133) or 150MB per sec(SATA) plus drive work/transfers do not use many CPU cycles at all because the IDE/SATA bus is doing all of the work kind of like how a GPU/APU takes the load off of the CPU because the GPU(Graphics Processing Unit/APU(Audio Processing Unit) is a little CPU on the Sound/Video card that is there to do all of the work of the card that the CPU used to do on old video/sound cards.
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All too true, but you would get even better value for money and a lot more performance if the OS could handle these resources more efficiently.
Oh and by the way I was wrong earlier when I said
quote: you don't with any other appliance.
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Well you do need to upgrade your games console every now and again to play the latest games, but no where near as often as your PC when you want to play the latest PC games.
That's another thing the Xbox isn't very powerful, when you compare it to the PC you would need to run the same game.
Do you know why?
Because the OS on an Xbox is compact, I bet there's no swap file either, it probably only uses 10% of the system resources.
Also the Xbox rules, and do you know why?
Competition, is the answer, and lots of it too.
Windows blows, M$ don't even need to bother to make it good and people will buy it, because they feel that they have no choice.
On the other hand the Xbox has had to compete with the Game Cube and PS2.
Evolution is definitely a good thing, but why should I have to upgrade when all I really want to do is surf the net and word-processing, plus burn a few CDs.
I could do all of this quite comfortably on an old P500 with 64MB RAM.
I don't do "professional Audio/Video/image work"
I might play the odd game on my PC, but certainly not the latest game, to do that I would buy a console.
With Wronghorn I would need a new PC just to do word-processing and burn CDs.
Why should I bother upgrading when the OS will ultimately gobble up my investment?
I can do all of the above with my current PC.
I really hope the day will never come when I need a realy powerful PC just to run openoffice.org.
I'm not saying that we should all use 386s of course, but 300-600MHz with 64-128MB RAM would be ok for basic stuff.
[ July 07, 2004: Message edited by: Aloone ]
hm_murdock:
quote:No distribution uses only 10% of your memory. What would be the point of wasting available memory by leaving 90% of it unused? The system utilises all available memory because there's no reason not to.
--- End quote ---
I meant to say, they can run in 10% of his installed memory. I ran a Slack server in 24MB of RAM back in 1999.
Aloone:
I do anything I'll ever want to do on a 1GHz and a 500MHz machine, and I'm running the newest versions of stuff. I've got far from the best hardware, but I still run the best software.
If I can do it, so can you. You're bitching about something that's not going to change.
If you don't like how "bloated" Red Hat is, then install Debian or Slack... if you dare. These "bloated" OSes exist because so many people need to do so many varied things that they have to have the ability to do it all. If you don't need some part of Linux, get rid of it. I say get Debian or Slackware if you're up to installing them. They'll make you much happier once their up and running.
[ July 07, 2004: Message edited by: JimmyJames: GenSTEP Founder ]
solarismka:
quote:
It is a good thing that our computers are so fast and high-tech these days. If they weren't we would still be playing shitty looking(pixelated) FPS games like doom, pixelated TPS like the original tomb raider, 2D side scrollers, etc. Nowadays our games look beautiful(damn near lifelike) due to having such powerful hardware. Hardware that wouldn't be so powerful if it wan't for OS makers(namely MS) upping the minimum sys requirements each time they released a new OS.
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Or rather than spending HUGE amount of cash just tp play games. One can go out and get a concole and have those amazing graphics and such for a far cheaper price, no BSOD's, spyware or other stability/security issues!
quote:
Nowadays a person who does professional Audio/Video/image work can get alot more done in less time thanks to the speed of modern computers(not to mention the better hardware gives them better quality work as well).
--- End quote ---
A person that does professional work usualy don't run out to buy the most expensive machine just to do the same tasks he/she could do before. Expecualy when those tasks get completed by the same time.
WindowsXP does everything and in the same time as older machines, yet XP needs huge amount of memory.
KDE3.2 and above can now work fater than its older versions and on the same old machine!
quote:
Come to think of it. Any real work people use a computer for gets done alot faster now than it ever did back in the day due to our hardware being so powerful.
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I see it differnetly. My p4 with a 256 mb ram is basicaly the same speed as my P2 with 96mb of ram.
A p3 with 128 mb of ram running Linux usualy runs faster with the same mahcine running XP.
hardware isn't important to get things done these days. The OS is.
quote:
I also will add that prices are for the better now.
Back in the late 80's a complete 386 system w/8MB of Ram, less than 200MB hard drive, shitty video subsystem, etc. could've been as expensive as $5,000. The scenario was the same with the 486 when it was 1st introduced. The prices started getting a little better when in the Pentium age.
--- End quote ---
hmmmm. A standard XP machine STIll costs arount $3000 dollars. or you can get a laptop that costs around $3-to 5000 dollars. I wouldn't call that 'cheep.' Expecialy when you factor in the monthly repair costs.
quote:
Nowadays though we can get/build a complete system that will simply run rings around that old stuff thousands of times in a minute for less than $700.
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Well yes. But comparing an old 486 with a p4 makes a huge difference. What I am saying is even if you use a p3 with a 128 mb of ram and a 40gig hard drive using the latest M$ OS compared with the same machine using Linux or something there is quite a difference in speed and usability!
quote:
I remember back in the day a 16MB stick of 66mhz 72-pin EDO memory went for over $130.
--- End quote ---
128 SD mb ram still fetches in $110 bucks. Not that much difference from then and now.
quote:
Nowadays a high quality name-brand 512MB stick of 200mhz Double Data Rate(effectively 400mhz) ram(PC3200) can be had for less than $100.
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My local bestbuy and staples state otherwize
quote:
Obviously the modern, cheaper memory is infinitley better than what could be had for more back then.
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Yes. So why does the same quality of work takes so much more?
quote:
The same thing goes for hard drives. Back in the day a 2GB hard drive could cost over $200. Now $200 will buy you a hard drive over 200GB.
--- End quote ---
Well thats because then 2gigs was the biggest now 200 is. And you see the price has not changed.
quote:
The old 2GB hard drives ran in PIO mode(mode 4 went no faster than 12MB per sec. and PIO mode used alot of CPU cycles). The modern 200GB+ hard drives are capable of doing 133MB per sec(PATA/133) or 150MB per sec(SATA) plus drive work/transfers do not use many CPU cycles at all because the IDE/SATA bus is doing all of the work kind of like how a GPU/APU takes the load off of the CPU because the GPU(Graphics Processing Unit/APU(Audio Processing Unit) is a little CPU on the Sound/Video card that is there to do all of the work of the card that the CPU used to do on old video/sound cards.
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Thats fine, as that is the evolution of hardware. It still doesn't make sence to see XP slow to a crawl or you have to have all of that just to do the same thing in the same amount of time.
quote:
The evolution of technology is by no means bad and kudos to MS,
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Well if we are going to congratulate them. Thanks for making your newest OS so easy to f*ck with!
But by no means does M$ have anything to do with hardware.
quote:
game makers
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Not realy -> see concole.
quote:
and professional work software makers for driving technology to be so fast and cheap these days.
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fast yes, cheap no.
quote:
Back in the day you had to be rich to own a computer because of how much the damn thngs costed.
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You still do now. There are people that takle loans out to cover the cost. Or arange some other financial support.
quote:
Nowadays 90% of households hae a computer because they are very affordable now.
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Over 90% of people have TV's. Does that mean that they are cheap? Nope!
A plasma TV can cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars!
quote:
Back in the day the Internet was something rare and special.
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Still is in most countries. Only canada and Finland are the two most wired countries in the world!
quote:
Nowadyas the Internet is a nessecisty.
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That depends what country you live in. The U.K. seems to be getting along without it.
Meaning that its is there but not like it is dependent on like it is here in Canada.
[ July 07, 2004: Message edited by: Viper ][/QB][/QUOTE]
hm_murdock:
That's just your opinion.
insomnia:
quote:Originally posted by Aloone:
This is so true, Linsux and Winbloze are both bloatware.
--- End quote ---
I use linux and not linsux. So your non-existing Linsux OS is bloated. Try Linux (I never used Linsux)
quote:Originally posted by Aloone:
It's stupid you shouldn't have to buy a new PC every three years to run the latest software, you don't with any other appliance. I've not up graded my CD player for over 14 years, and it still plays the latest CDs.
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I still have my first 386 running still the same Linux(still fully working).
Even better: Using linux I now can use some older 286 systems (using only floppies) .
My CD players never lasted more than 4 years.
quote:Originally posted by Aloone:
The only thing I do with my new PC that I couldn't do with my old one is burn CDs & watch DVDs.
--- End quote ---
You can run all new applications on your 'old' 386?
It's mostly games that make people buy new CPU's.
PS: Try this:
1. Install slackware.(only install what you need)
http://www.slackware.com/
2. Build your own kernel(this really isn't that hard)
http://kernel.org/
3. Be very happy with your very powerfull 'slackbox'.
[ July 07, 2004: Message edited by: insomnia ]
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