Miscellaneous > The Lounge
Firearms debate (formerly Symantec Firewall blocks freedom)
Laukev7:
quote: and you didn't answer my question. If we could all have firearms carried with us, would you rob a bank? Would you feel more comfortable knowing that they probably don't have a gun - because it's a lot more difficult for them to get?
--- End quote ---
Real robbers don't usually hold-up banks alone, they do it in small groups. And they could have machine guns, against which handguns would be quite ineffective, since a machine gun would shoot 6 bullets in your chest before you even have the time to reach your holster.
quote: really? A gun can unlock itself from storage, can unlock the ammo, can load itself, walk to a target, disengage the safety, and pull the trigger?
--- End quote ---
You just proved my point. Such guns are totally useless against a robber with a ready gun. Even forty armed people would not stand a chance; they would never even have time to unholster the gun, let alone disengage the safety. Even if the safety is already disengaged, the robber will have time to either flee or shoot the person before he unholsters.
quote: a criminal can feel secure in knowing that nobody else around him has a firearm and can defend themselves.
--- End quote ---
Since your point is about security, each individual person amongst the 40 might feel just as deterred by the gun of the robber than the robber might be by the people.
[ November 03, 2003: Message edited by: Laukev7 ]
Stryker:
quote:
Real robbers don't usually hold-up banks alone, they do it in small groups. And they could have machine guns, against which handguns would be quite ineffective, since a machine gun would shoot 6 bullets in your chest before you even have the time to reach your holster.
--- End quote ---
There aren't very many real robbers then, most do it by themselves or with a partner. And you still didn't answer the question. And machine guns aren't very easy to get. It would be very stupid to hold up a bank when everybody in there has a gun. If I were to carry my gun around with me, it'd be loaded but have the safety on. And it doesn't take any effort to turn the safety off. I could shoot them just as fast as they could shoot me. But it doesn't matter, the robber wouldn't be there to begin with because he knows that SOMEONE in that bank would shoot him and it'd all be for nothing.
quote:
Since your point is about security, each individual person amongst the 40 might feel just as deterred by the gun of the robber than the robber might be by the people.
--- End quote ---
I wouldn't be too worried if I was in a room full of people defending me. I would be worried if a room full of people with guns wanted to kill me. But, I'm not a criminal. You may think I am because I enjoy my gun, and think people should have more rights to their firearms... but i'm not.
Laukev7:
quote: There aren't very many real robbers then, most do it by themselves or with a partner.
--- End quote ---
And get arrested quickly.
quote: And machine guns aren't very easy to get.
--- End quote ---
Neither would handguns be if they were prohibited.
quote: It would be very stupid to hold up a bank when everybody in there has a gun.
--- End quote ---
It would be very stupid to hold up a bank in the first place, since no one in the bank even knows how to open the vault (at least where I live).
quote: because he knows that SOMEONE in that bank would shoot him and it'd all be for nothing.
--- End quote ---
See above. And security guards and cameras can live up to that task fairly well.
quote: And you still didn't answer the question.
--- End quote ---
I would not be deterred by a room full of armed people, because I would never be stupid enough to rob any bank alone. And if I did, I would threaten to blow the shit up if anyone pointed a gun at me, because I would have to bring explosives to open the vault anyway.
[ November 04, 2003: Message edited by: Laukev7 ]
flap:
If these pro-gun Americans think the right to own a firearm is such a fundamental one, why do they think it is that people in other countries that don't have such liberal gun laws never, ever complain that they don't have the same rights? In this country most people regard the American obsession with guns with amusement. Most people here can't conceive of wanting to own a firearm, but maybe that's because we don't need them because we never made them legal in the first place. In this country even the police aren't armed, because they don't need to be. Compare that to the US where "more people died from gunshot wounds in the last 2 years alone than the whole Vietnam War" (http://www.peace.ca/giftfeararticles.htm). Do you really think that's the mark of a civilised country?
[ November 04, 2003: Message edited by: flap ]
Stryker:
Very few people are killed accidently by a gun. Less than almost every other way you could die. People are murdered often, that's not something that'll change. People are stupid. And most people that rob a store are not caught, you are fooled into thinking that by the media. They won't announce anything like : "This week we haven't caught the guy that robbed that mini-mart on 23rd and 5th 6 months ago" but you may hear something like "We caught the guy that robbed the..." Most people get away with robery. That's not really the point, you got off subject with that remark.
Saying i'm not allowed to have a gun is just as silly as saying i'm not allowed to have a baseball bat. Both can kill someone, but none of them are dangerous by themselves. Both are used for sport. If you do not want to own a gun, i respect that and I will not try to convince you (or force you by legal means) to have one. You shouldn't do it to me. I, like most people in this country, am responsible with my firearms.
The difference between a baseball bat and a firearm, is that some people like to carry a firearm around with them. Why? It really doesn't matter, they just do. Maybe they feel safer, maybe it helps his self esteem, maybe it helps him with the chicks, maybe he likes showing people he meets, maybe he just does it to spite you. It's none of your business what a person does with it. It's not harming you.
I've taken the classes, earned the money... i've done what i've had to do to for my firearm. If you don't want one, fine... don't ruin it for everybody else. I'm done with this subject, people like you just piss me off (no offense) and I can't deal with it right now.
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