Miscellaneous > The Lounge
Firearms debate (formerly Symantec Firewall blocks freedom)
Faust:
quote:would you pull out a gun and try to rob a bank, if you know that the 40 people in there could have guns too?
--- End quote ---
I wouldn't. Then again I'm not stupid, desperate or "slightly out of touch with reality." People robbing banks are quite often all 3 as well as pretty fucking twitchy and or on heavy drugs... face it, if youre desperate enough to rob a bank in the first place, the knowledge that you might die doing it isnt much more. You're saying theres a twitchy nutter pointing a shotgun at me and you want the guy beside me to reach for his revolver? WHAT THE FUCK? 40 people in one bank willing to gun down a psycho with a bigger gun? And you expect innocent people not to die in that situation? Sorry, I just want this guy to get his cash and leave. Cash isn't lives, and I feel safe in the banks where I live without owning a gun.
For sporting purposes why would you need anything as powerful as what you get in America? In Australia you can get guns but you cant get anything on the "too powerful" list. Why do I need a "big" gun to defend myself? If I wanted a gun to defend myslef all I need is something big enough to stop a guy moving at me or being coherent enough to shoot me. Less guns over here and yet a much lower crime rate... Strange huh?
quote:Saying i'm not allowed to have a gun is just as silly as saying i'm not allowed to have a baseball bat.
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Actually I would feel much safer if I was living in a country where the aforemementioned robber might have to "make do" with a baseball bat. Oh wait... I am. :)
I am sure that many gun owners in America are responsible... but some are not. By limiting the amount of guns (especially powerful guns) and their availability in Australia it is much more difficult for the occasional "evil doer" to get one. No, its not impossible but it is more difficult, which means it happens less often, which means there is far far less gun related deaths in Australia. Yeah if a guy is coming at me with a gun I would like to have one too... But I am willing to sacrifice my right to own a big arse gun easily because by doing so I know that there are less guns out there, and it is less likely that I will ever be in that situation where I want a gun. Its not impossible, but its less likely, and I happen to like my odds better this way. The violent crime statistics like my odds better this way too. You say that people will always be able to get powerful guns, but in Australia it doesn't happen often. In Bowling For Columbine there is a kid who brags about being able to sell guns for $1.50 each... Thats less than I would spend on my lunch. That doesnt happen in Australia, and I feel safer and am safer because of it, and I owe that to my countries stricter gun control.
That said, I dont like Symantecs censorship. I may not agree with the NRA but they have a right to be listened to. (Is there an "option" that clearly states "ticking this box will disallow access to pro gun sites?" If so it's a lot better IMHO.)
anphanax:
I've read some documents where violent crimes are higher in countries without hand weapons.
By censoring guns, you are censoring hunting, a pasttime that many enjoy in this country, and have a right to do, regardless of your political beliefs.
One could argue that porn is inapproriate for young users, so guns should be too. The difference is, you have youth hunting camps and groups. You don't have youth pornography groups and camps (AT LEAST NOT LEGALLY).
Even if you hate firearms, there are people who are legit for them. The police and public/private security officials would be screwed without them. Shoot or be shot. Bullet proof vests are like jello if you've got the right gun and ammunition (which, thank god, is illegal for public use). And if they're all you've got, good luck stopping a dangerous psycho from his killing spree.
[ November 05, 2003: Message edited by: anphanax ]
hm_murdock:
I, myself own two weapons, one is a vintage M1 Garand rifle that my grandfather had, and the other is a Magnum/IMI Desert Eagle.
You could say "whoa! why do you need a military rifle?"
Why? Because it's a very attractive object. Have you ever seen one?
http://www.memorableplaces.com/m1garand/
It's very beautiful, being mostly walnut. Highly polished with a deep, red-brown stain. This is an original WWII era model built by Springfield Armory. The reissues are selling for nearly $2000. It's a .3006 gas-powered semi-auto rifle with an 8-round internal magazine. What do I do with it? Keep it on a rack unloaded. I have one box of shells for it. One box. Why only one box? Because all I'll ever do with it is take it to a shooting range and maybe out hunting. I don't even keep the things in the same room with it. The mechanism is also partially-disassembled for safety concerns.
As for my Desert Eagle... that's a different story. Why do I own a .50AE caliber handgun? I have to be honest... because I think it's cool, and I had $1500 to spend. The Desert Eagle has been featured in several movies lately, including Snatch (Bullettooth's gun), and The Matrix trilogy as the agents' handgun.
http://magnumresearch.com/old/xixpistols.html
What do I do with it? Have it. Again, I have one box of rounds for it... mainly because it's cost prohibitive to have much more. .50AE Magnum rounds are $25 to $30 for a box of 20 rounds. This thing sits around in a drawer with the magazine right next to it. It's not loaded, but that's nearly effortless to remedy. Slap it in, pull the slide. You're ready to roll. If someone busts into my place, the only way they'll get out is by dragging their legs out.
I've taken several courses in handgun use and ownership. I'm able to take someone down with an incapacitation shot. It's very hard to sue someone when you're caught in their home and they stop you by intentionally non-lethal means.
I enjoy action movies and games and all that crap, and therefore "guns are cool". There's ways that people can enjoy shooting guns responsibly and safely. In addition to my two real guns, I also own several airsoft replicas. Airsoft is a brilliant idea from Japan. Realistic gun replicas that fire harmless plastic BBs. The guns can be spring-powered single-shot, electric-powered, or gas-powered. Spring guns have to be cocked every shot, electric ones are realistic in their firing, and are powered by batteries and electric motors and gearboxes, while gas guns use one of several gases to blow the BB out. The worst injury you can sustain is a sting. Wearing proper safety gear will protect your face, eyes, and ears. There you have it, responsible, safe gun recreation. These replicas all carry a red-orange muzzle based on US laws.
Now... that doesn't answer many questions as to why it's important to Americans to have guns.
Let me tell you why.
IN 1776 WE FOUGHT A WAR WITH THE SOVEREIGN NATION OF ENGLAND TO WIN OUR INDEPENDENCE.
IN 1789, THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WAS DRAFTED.
BY THE MID 1790S, THE BILL OF RIGHTS WAS DRAFTED.
The founding fathers of our nation INTENDED for American citizens to be able to protect themselves. Not just from criminals, but, according to speeches and manuscripts, from the very government that they themselves were building.
I don't intend for you to understand, you're not from the United States, you grew up differently, it's not wrong or bad, or backwards of you to think the way you do. It's also not wrong or backwards of us to think the way we do. It's just different.
billy_gates:
it is our second amendment right to bear arms. This right is being violated. We can no longer bear arms. They have to be under lock and key in most states.
I think a good solution will be mandatory gun ownership (and mandatory education too).
No one would fuck with anyone if everyone had a gun.
I think that idea would be crazy... but theoretically it would work.
I will be damned the day the damn liberals take away my second amendment rights.
flap:
quote:If someone busts into my place, the only way they'll get out is by dragging their legs out.
--- End quote ---
So all the time you're at home you're within reach of your gun? If so, that almost doesn't sound stupid. And if you think guns are such a deterrent then why do you think burglary still actually ever happens in the US?
quote:I think a good solution will be mandatory gun ownership (and mandatory education too). No one would fuck with anyone if everyone had a gun.
--- End quote ---
Good idea, genius. That's why the old american west was so peaceful. In fact that's why wars are so peaceful, because everybody has a gun, so naturally no-one dares to "fuck with" anyone else.
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