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sporkme:
it's all greek to me!
comparing me / whoever to a nazi propogandist was a low, low cheap shot.
and by the way, friend, it is spelled Goebbels, and pronounced like the small, furry rodent he was.
chile was a major tarfu, but we had to keep the communists at bay.
need i remind you of your own communist insurgency? ...thus giving rise to your nov. 17 terrorists
about fifty times more russians died in world war 2 than any other nationality - thanks to uncle joe's pact with the devil. it seems like every time you europeans get your asses in a bind, we have to come on over there and bail you out... AND THIS IS THE THANKS WE GET?
before pearl harbor, we were too busy trying to wield our giant bureacracy to bail our OWN asses out of the depression... once the attack came (read: sept 11), we swung into full force action AND WON THE WAR FOR YOU
vis-a-vis our pollution, i suggest you check the soft coal mines of eastern europe - which have pretty much denuded the wildlands due to the acid rain they produce.
our own epa DOES force many of the world's more unscrupulous corporations to exploit the lack of control in some less developed countries... but if we come over there and enforce our policies, we will have magically gone from isolationist to totalitarian in your eyes
it is you who are riding your huge ego; concerning your "birthplace of democracy" comment, you have been practicing for 4000 years and still haven't got it right.
Socrates and Demosthenes are weeping...
try this on for size: we may have made our own mistakes in the past (i.e. saddam, chile) but at least we take care of them ourselves (despite your incessant whining). whenever you bollocks it up, here come the yankees :D
we have been pussy-footing around with the poor people in isreal/palestine for too long now. in my opinion, yasser and sharon should be locked in a room with a couple of box cutters.
--i really liked the neighborhood gang analogy
those people are all the same really... wanting peace, wanting to have a normal life.
but then a bunch of terrorist morons have to go strapping TNT on thier backs
but then a bunch of sharon-ites have to blow up a police station
but then a bunch of terrori...... you get it
there aren't any israelis blowing themselves up though! a very tippable scale as to who is more right than the other!
--do you want us to go in there and kick some butt, sort shit out, and such? AHHH! IT NEVER CEASES!
war is not usually good, but in some cases it becomes necessary. imagine if someone had toppled the nazis before they became powerful... all those innocents
so... here we come mr. taliban! here we come saddam insane!
"dropping bombs on innocent" people... give me a break. in prisons over here, signs on the walls say SIT DOWN WHEN SHOTS ARE FIRED. this is basically the policy the US armed forces take. innocent people in tanks?!?!?!
the United Nations sure did a nice job in somolia. shoulda just let the US handle that one. and bosnia? korea? all those innocents...
also... there is little either of us could do to stop the US anti-terror machine. world trade center... all those innocents.
oh man my head hurts
pantso, you are extremely intelligent, worldly, and a talented debator.
[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: sporkme / bob ]
[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: sporkme / bob ]
lazygamer:
Ouch hurting head. I used to be alot like Sporkme(ie:US are the goodguys etc.), but I've fallen to the dark side.
Oh and Flap, your LOL has made me go LOL right back at you. ;)
Bazoukas:
Am gonna talk as a person who lived in two countries. 14-15 years in Greece and 11-12 years in USA.
Politics are dirty by its nature. PERIOD. I dont care where you from. That doesnt mean though we should all hit the mountains.
I can make a whole list of Bad things the USA did and I can make a whole list of Bad things that Greece has done.
Using that as a jumping point I can go to the other end of the spectrum and write a whole list of good things the USA did and a whole good things that Greece has done.
Difference is that since USA is a superpower the results of its actions have a much greater impact (good or bad).
Believe it or not Americans and Europeans have much more in common than anyone wants to admit.
I can make you a small brake down of the lists I told you about.
I dont believe in idolizing anything or anyone. I call them as I see them. I also do believe NOT using the past as a jumpstart. The past is what it is and no one can change it. Its also an error to use the past as "good old glory days".
Am not saying forget history. Thats a recipe for repeating bad patterns. I am saying dont forget but learn from it so we can build a better future.
NO COUNTRY IS A SAINT!!!! WE ALL HAVE BLOOD IN OUR BODY. ACCEPT IT AND MOVE ALONG.
Dueling about the past does little good.
Its a dirty yet beautifull world people.
[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]
Bazoukas:
well fuck it. I need to sudy but i dont feel like it. So am gonna do the small general brake down.
Greece gave birth to Democracy.
USA was the first nation after eons that revived Democracy.A goverment for the people by the people, as the Athenians wanted for their own City.
American Revolution ignited the French Revolution and the Greek revolution fallowed shortly after.
WWII. Well its best not to say bad things about that generation that fought against the Nazis no matter what country they came from. I will say this though. Nazis economical and finacial power was increased by the fact that big companies invested and sold materials to the Nazis because of their industrial demands. Some of those companies were based in USA.Along with that, Stalin showed support at the early days towards Germany. ALL THIS HAPPENED before Germany decided to go GUN HO.
On the other hand, if USA didnt come in, Europe would have fallen. England couldnt keep up for long and the gurila war in other countries was not enough.
Cold War. Thats a whole fucked up situation by itself. Russia and America took it to the extreme. Both countries wanted to spread their own influence to other countries. Both USA and Russia made efforts to establish their own pupet rulers in other countries. Thus we had Korea, Vietnam, Afganistan and so on.
Greece had a Dictator established by USA. The 17th November was the date that Greece elimenated that form of goverment.
400+ protesting students died in the Polutehnio University when a tank just charged in and sholdiers started shooting left and right.
17th November though, the group, took a life of its own. The people (MAINLY 18 to 26 year old STUDENTS) that participated on overthrowing the goverment never had in mind that a group like this would form. And the group has taken it to a whole different level. Frankly I dont think they even know what they are "fighting" for. If you ask me they are just dickheads.
As I said before no country is perfect. Hell pancho do you forget what happened with the Albanians? When then president Mitsotakis invited them telling them that they gonna find jobs and houses to live? He basicaly did that so the Albanians would vote him and stay for a second term.
About Kuwait. I know a good number of US ARMY veterans, that GOT REALY FUCKING PISSED, when they recieved orders not to go after Sadam. And yeah the whole thing was to protect the oil resources. Sounds cruel? Maybe so, but think of the alternative.
The other famous royall fart from both USA and Europe was Ruanda. No one wanted to get their hands dirty and the result? Genocide.
Anyway you cut it, some things dont look good.
But i try not to focus only on the fuckups. There are so MANY postive things that came from USA and Europe and Russia and other countries.
Space exploration (the thing that will save humanity) basicaly came from the German scientists.
Now Russia and USA are working together to put humans on Mars.
Medicice wise. The famous PAP test was invented in Greece. Europe and USA are coming with new treatments for all of natures fuckups (Cancer, mental illness and many more).
And so on and so on and so on.
I could go on but i need to study, but I just wanted to write this down.
I realy do hate it when people are on each other throats when there is no need for it.
Am gonna say it again.
Its a dirty yet beautifull world people. Embrace it for what it is. There is a time for peace and there is a time for war. Its just life.
I REALY HOPE SOMEONE WILL READ THIS SHIT CAUSE IT TOOK ME A GOOD 30 FUCKING MINUTES.
[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]
[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]
[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]
lazygamer:
Don't worry, I read it.
It is an excellent point though, much good has come out of countries, along with much bad.
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