Miscellaneous > The Lounge
Whats with this protesting European Patenting Stuff?
Doctor V:
:rolleyes:
quote:
if you really believe in your cause you will stop using product X. During the civil rights movement. One of the first things they did was boycott the bus system. There was no corp b bus system. Only one. They stopped using it. It was a huge pain. They had to walk or bum rides from people. But they did it. And it will take at least 6 months for corp b to get sued out of existance. So you have some time.
I don't think there is a way to prove my points any further.
--- End quote ---
Look at my post again and see that I said that 'product X' could be something that people really want or outright need. Your response adresses the former, but completely misses the latter the latter. Under this system something which people are dependant on could be patented.
:mad:
You really do not understand this issue at all do you. From the example above, maybe company A doesn't even sell product X, they simple own the patent for it and want to get a cut from every purchase. How does a boycott help then? If you don't buy the product, company A loses nothing. Its possible, its happened already to ebay. Also a fact that is already stated above.
Its not a single company that sells a single product, but a system of gaining quick and easy market domination. Even if we could boycott one company into giving up their patent, there would be hundreds no probably thousands more, the boycotts would never end, and technical advancement, new business and competition would be slowed down to a near halt. Furthermore the boycotted company would likely not give up the patent, instead they would just sell it. Then we start over.
I'd rather just protest, that actually might do something.
There is a time and place for boycotting, times when it works and works well, but also there are times when it is not appropriate.
V
billy_gates:
quote:Originally posted by Doctor V: Gentoo Lunatic:
:rolleyes:
Look at my post again and see that I said that 'product X' could be something that people really want or outright need. Your response adresses the former, but completely misses the latter the latter. Under this system something which people are dependant on could be patented.
:mad:
You really do not understand this issue at all do you. From the example above, maybe company A doesn't even sell product X, they simple own the patent for it and want to get a cut from every purchase. How does a boycott help then? If you don't buy the product, company A loses nothing. Its possible, its happened already to ebay. Also a fact that is already stated above.
Its not a single company that sells a single product, but a system of gaining quick and easy market domination. Even if we could boycott one company into giving up their patent, there would be hundreds no probably thousands more, the boycotts would never end, and technical advancement, new business and competition would be slowed down to a near halt. Furthermore the boycotted company would likely not give up the patent, instead they would just sell it. Then we start over.
I'd rather just protest, that actually might do something.
There is a time and place for boycotting, times when it works and works well, but also there are times when it is not appropriate.
V
--- End quote ---
as I said... this is not the best issue for a boycot. But by your example. If Comp A has a patent on product X. And 3 people sell product X by paying Comp a. Then if you stop buying that product Comp A will lose money. And if they lose enough they will stop enforcing their patent. You have to tell them that the patent is the reason people aren't buying. Sure you may eliminate 3 other almost innocent companies too. But remember they were participating in the patent system too.
Also, I do not understand when you said NEED. There is no piece of software on this earth that you NEED to not die. Maybe its your main source of income. But there are millions of people who live without any income. You do not have a NEED for software. You just don't want this boycott to vastly affect your life. Its going to have to if your really serious about your cause.
Have any of you people ever considered that if this does get passed... its because of what the majority wanted? The liberals being the majority. I don't see how you can very easily lose. I mean how corrupt could the people you punt into office over there actually be? I mean they are politicians (making them automatically liars) but they can't be as bad as the US Politicians.
[ September 06, 2003: Message edited by: jeffberg: Mac Capitalist ]
Stryker:
quote:Originally posted by jeffberg: Mac Capitalist:
as I said... this is not the best issue for a boycot. But by your example. If Comp A has a patent on product X. And 3 people sell product X by paying Comp a. Then if you stop buying that product Comp A will lose money. And if they lose enough they will stop enforcing their patent.
--- End quote ---
why would they?
quote:
You have to tell them that the patent is the reason people aren't buying.
--- End quote ---
why?
quote:
Sure you may eliminate 3 other almost innocent companies too. But remember they were participating in the patent system too.
--- End quote ---
they are forced to participate, they shouldn't get eliminated.
quote:
Also, I do not understand when you said NEED. There is no piece of software on this earth that you NEED to not die.
--- End quote ---
We dont need a word processor. We dont need calculator programs. We dont need CADing software. We dont need bank managers or credit card processors. yep... who needs software?
quote:
Maybe its your main source of income. But there are millions of people who live without any income.
--- End quote ---
lots of people die with no income.
quote:
You do not have a NEED for software.
--- End quote ---
sure we do.
quote:
You just don't want this boycott to vastly affect your life. Its going to have to if your really serious about your cause.
--- End quote ---
isn't the whole point to have things stay how they are now, as far as patents? the idea is to not have it change our lives.
quote:
Have any of you people ever considered that if this does get passed... its because of what the majority wanted?
--- End quote ---
nope. not once. people get lied to and tricked into voting one way, others dont understand so they just vote randomly or by what their friend's did.
billy_gates:
Now I think Stryker is just trying to make this go on and on
quote:why would they?
--- End quote ---
cus if they don't stop enforcing the patents then people won't buy the software from the other companies. Which means they won't get paid licesne fees. Which means they will go out of business.
quote:why?
--- End quote ---
or else they might not know what the drop in revenue is from. Then they would not know how to fix it.
quote:they are forced to participate, they shouldn't get eliminated
--- End quote ---
They are not forced to participate. They do not HAVE to sell Product X. It is not a requirement for them. They chose to sell product X and pay the patent fees. They are participating under their own free will.
quote:We dont need a word processor. We dont need calculator programs. We dont need CADing software. We dont need bank managers or credit card processors. yep... who needs software?
--- End quote ---
Exactly. Cavement didn't have software. The people that drive trash trucks don't use software. I don't see why one would need software. It would just help them a lot... a very lot.
quote:lots of people die with no income
--- End quote ---
lots of people don't. There are plently of homeless an hour from here, in LA. They have no income, and they survive.
quote:sure we do
--- End quote ---
You don't NEED software. You just want it. Your life does not depend on how much software you can waste away in front of your computer to use.
quote:isn't the whole point to have things stay how they are now, as far as patents? the idea is to not have it change our lives.
--- End quote ---
This hypothetical situation is a last resort
quote:nope. not once. people get lied to and tricked into voting one way, others dont understand so they just vote randomly or by what their friend's did.
--- End quote ---
That is just sad, you really think that low of your fellow human beings. I don't even think THAT low. If that is the case however. Instead of protesting and running around in the streets. You should make an education type campaing. Flyers and a web site. Put flyers in mail boxes and on car windshields. Try to get connections to BBC (or some other european focused internation) news, to put it on TV. Try to make a website for everyone to go to. And negotiate some mention of this on other people's web sites. Try to make it so a proper vote is cast.
Stryker:
quote:Originally posted by jeffberg: Mac Capitalist:
Now I think Stryker is just trying to make this go on and on
--- End quote ---
nope, i just disagree with you... are you trying to avoid it?
quote:
cus if they don't stop enforcing the patents then people won't buy the software from the other companies. Which means they won't get paid licesne fees. Which means they will go out of business.
--- End quote ---
if they dont stop enforcing? i thought you said they would stop enforcing it. i was pointing out that they have no reason to. they stop enforcing it... they definately dont get any money. the continue enforcing it when sales are down, they still get a little and dont have to work for it.
quote:
or else they might not know what the drop in revenue is from. Then they would not know how to fix it.
--- End quote ---
ok
quote:
They are not forced to participate. They do not HAVE to sell Product X. It is not a requirement for them. They chose to sell product X and pay the patent fees. They are participating under their own free will.
--- End quote ---
ok, say one makes cars and has done it for years. suddenly some guy comes along and says, "hey! automatic windows were MY idea! give me money!"... then they were forced into it. and this is generally what will get a lot of companies... especially in software.
quote:
Exactly. Cavement didn't have software. The people that drive trash trucks don't use software. I don't see why one would need software. It would just help them a lot... a very lot.
--- End quote ---
it's called progress. and we have grown to depend on it. did your mother teach you how to catch, kill, prepare, and eat food with your bare hands? no? how else would u know how. you're in a society where you needs different things than we did back then. I NEED software, especially when it comes to financial institutions. for being a proud capitalist you sure ur against the need for progress? for software? it's needed.
quote:
lots of people don't. There are plently of homeless an hour from here, in LA. They have no income, and they survive.
--- End quote ---
and they get what little food they have from people that do have an income.
quote:
You don't NEED software. You just want it. Your life does not depend on how much software you can waste away in front of your computer to use.
--- End quote ---
I dont need to own a computer to need software. before i had a computer i relied on software, i couldn't write or cash a check without software. so i wouldn't be able to eat, get clothes, or anything that we NEED.
quote:
This hypothetical situation is a last resort
--- End quote ---
what do u mean by that?
quote:
That is just sad, you really think that low of your fellow human beings. I don't even think THAT low.
--- End quote ---
you think the majority of people are well educated and know what they are voting for on every little option on there? ok.
quote:
If that is the case however. Instead of protesting and running around in the streets. You should make an education type campaing. Flyers and a web site. Put flyers in mail boxes and on car windshields. Try to get connections to BBC (or some other european focused internation) news, to put it on TV. Try to make a website for everyone to go to. And negotiate some mention of this on other people's web sites. Try to make it so a proper vote is cast.
--- End quote ---
I agree. but what's wrong with a protest? it gets people to pay attention, even the public who is intrested when they hear the word "protest".
I just disagreed with you that someone would stop enforcing a pantent simply because they stopped getting money off of it, they wont. I disagree with ur ideas of us not needing software. i think i'm done here though, not really the thread i like. just thought i'd have to bump in and yell at you for ur little "i make money, fuck everyone who doesn't" post. shouldn't have said anything else.
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