Operating Systems > Linux and UNIX
Linux and Antivirus software
muzzy:
IE isn't especially "integrated" into the system any more than, say, zlib is integrated into linux. Remember the zlib vulnerabilities? Dozens after dozens of user applications turned out to be vulnerable due to it. In a statically compiled system, it required the full recompile. In dynamically linked, just replace the library. The actual IE browser client is indeed just a wrapper for a bunch of system stuff. WinINet core implements the actual connectivity, HTTP requests and other stuff, while MSHTML takes care of rendering.
The only "integration" here is that the IE web browser (which doesn't implement the internet functionality nor html rendering) also implements shell document views. However, the windows graphical shell (explorer.exe) is totally independent of this all, it just doesn't happen to care what it hosts in it. It is because of this flexiblity that people mistake the browser to be integrated into the system. If you think the WinINet network connectivity code sucks, the interface is published and well documented. You can go ahead and reimplement it, then install your version of the library on the system and everything will work. You can even reimplement the MSHTML library and have the IE browser use gecko rendering engine. I recall this has been done for an earlier version of mozilla long ago already.
Regarding patching, Microsoft cannot afford patches that don't work. All the applications have to work after patching, so testing has to be done even for simple and small patches. The linux patches, I've understood, are not tested that much. For an example, look at the ip packet fragmentation bugs earlier, i.e. the teardrop and nestea and such attacks. Several bugs were found in the same module, even same lines of code, over and over again. Right, they were always patched quickly, but after each of the first patches there were still vulnerabilities remaining, soon to be found. Then again, Microsoft managed to do same thing a few times as well. Just pointing out that bugs in open source don't differ that much from bugs in closed source.
Kintaro:
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---I agree with Calum, I think muzzy has raised some perfectly valid points and kintaro should just shut up. This debate has confirmed by suspicions that most people here can't see things from anyone else's point of view. When someone puts across a good argument for something someone else disagrees with but can't come up with an intelligent response they just get told to fuck off.
I think this is very stupid.
--- End quote ---
s/muzzy/Muzzy
s/kintaro/Kintaro
This debate has confirmed by: This debate has been confirmed by...
Moreso, the debate has not been confirmed, these suspicions confirm bias in members, that is all. This is the most illogical claim I have seen on the whole board.
Write. Comprehend. Post.
---
Nonetheless, my complaint is that Muzzy always compares his enhanced configuration of Windows with features of some default installs of various Linux distributions.
Aloone_Jonez:
--- Quote from: kintaro ---s/muzzy/Muzzy
s/kintaro/Kintaro
This debate has confirmed by: This debate has been confirmed by...
--- End quote ---
That was a grammatical error, I meant my - I often feel that people are often flamed here for disagreeing with the majority. Some people here aren't very objective - they can't understand anyone else's opinions, and they have problems understanding both sides on an argeuement.
--- Quote from: kintaro ---Moreso, the debate has not been confirmed, these suspicions confirm bias in members, that is all. This is the most illogical claim I have seen on the whole board.
Write. Comprehend. Post.
--- End quote ---
Not illogical, you just misunderstood my post which was my fault because the grammar was shitty - I'm sorry.
--- Quote from: kintaro ---
Nonetheless, my complaint is that Muzzy always compares his enhanced configuration of Windows with features of some default installs of various Linux distributions.
--- End quote ---
I can see you point and I agree with you, and I can see Muzzy's point too. I see what you mean he has repeated this arguement a lot but lots of anti-microsoft arguements are repeated just as much.
Linux can be unstable and insecure if you use a shitty distro and it's setup shitly too. Open source dosn't always mean better, even though it does have it's advantages.
By the way I still think Windows sucks and I'd rather use Linux, but I can't be arsed to have this dicussion again.
Lord C:
Grisoft have released their very famous AVG anti-virus software to the Linux Community :)
It isn't open source, but it is another big name on our side.
muzzy:
Nonetheless, my complaint is that Muzzy always compares his enhanced configuration of Windows with features of some default installs of various Linux distributions.
Well, there's no point comparing default windows installations to default linux installations. You can preconfigure your distro any damn way you like, so that'd be same as comparing unconfigured windows with preconfigured linux. Now that wouldn't be fair either.
Now, if only microsoft made it legit to distribute custom windows installation CDs, the world would be so much a better place. XP still needs to be activated, so what's the problem? Support nightmare? I don't think geeks would mind if it was allowed but unsupported by the helpdesk. Market dominance issues in unrelated fields? You speculate, monopoly abuse has been repeatedly confirmed.
Also, I'm comparing the windows system as-it-is, just configured. I think I've mentioned when kernel hacks/drivers are needed, so it's just fair to compare to the usual linux kernel tree as well. If you're going to setup a linuxbox with all the funky patches including grsec plus hand tuned setup, you can get a really nasty linux box indeed. Now, how many mainstream distros ship like this? None, because of compatibility issues. Some security features just aren't compatible with the applications, and people don't like this, even if they could have superior security.
If you go hacking kernels, you can make different system do a whole lot of interesting things. I maintain my view that windows system without third party kernel patches can be configured to be superior to a mainstream linux distribution without third party kernel patches.
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