All Things Microsoft > Microsoft as a Company
Microsoft bans democracy
Aloone_Jonez:
Am I the only person who disagrees here, get on with your fucking work and stop installing shit and looking at porn. This school has the right to see what you're doing as you're using it's computers, sure if you break the rules that have the right to ban you. Where I work I signed a contract saying I would obide by the rules and if I break them I could be subject to disipliery action.
You wouldn't like it if you let someone use your computer and they installed lots of warez that contained viruses on it now would you?
School and work computers are for work and nothing else.
MrX:
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---Am I the only person who disagrees here, get on with your fucking work and stop installing shit and looking at porn. This school has the right to see what you're doing as you're using it's computers, sure if you break the rules that have the right to ban you. Where I work I signed a contract saying I would obide by the rules and if I break them I could be subject to disipliery action.
You wouldn't like it if you let someone use your computer and they installed lots of warez that contained viruses on it now would you?
School and work computers are for work and nothing else.
--- End quote ---
I don't look at porn at school because my moniter is in plain sight for the teacher to see, and it would be a waste of time when I can play counter-strike. I don't install virus' because that would be stupid. I don't have any P2P apps or any of that sort of thing. I am responcible for the computers I use and I want nothing but the best and that's why I have tweaked mine to be the fastest and most responsive.
And in the agreement they say they can't snoop on you and they're kind of pushing it in my opinion.
Also the other kids can do whatever they want to their computers, I don't care because they can make them shit while mine is the bestly kept one. And if they screw it up that's their own problem, not mine.
Mr X
Orethrius:
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---Am I the only person who disagrees here, get on with your fucking work and stop installing shit and looking at porn. This school has the right to see what you're doing as you're using it's computers, sure if you break the rules that have the right to ban you. Where I work I signed a contract saying I would obide by the rules and if I break them I could be subject to disipliery action.
--- End quote ---
Are you high? Seriously, where do you get off equating work computers to school computers? Your job PAYS YOU not to look at porn, not to play games on the systems, and so on. School computers YOU PAY TO USE. Don't believe me? Look at your taxes some time. So you think that it's within their rights to ban you from the systems you pay to use, good on you. If you do crap that disrupts other people's usage time (porn, running game servers, etc) you deserve to be. Now I realise you live in 1984 over there in Omnibus England, but you don't see the problem with the system monitoring YOU and telling YOU that you can't look at this security site over here, or play CounterStrike over here, because it might be counterintuitive to the usage YOU PAY FOR? What if every ISP did this, would you be pissed off, or just take it like the lamb you're playing? Additionally, you completely write off the right to privacy! I don't know how you do things in England, but that's not acceptable behaviour over here. People have been sued for far, FAR less.
Accordingly, "disciplinary action" need not necessarily equate to "monitoring via inherently insecure tools that provide a valid avenue of attack."
--- Quote ---You wouldn't like it if you let someone use your computer and they installed lots of warez that contained viruses on it now would you?
--- End quote ---
Again, you miss the point. That's not acceptable behaviour, but do you take anti-virus software as anything but supplemental to your own two eyes and behaviour-analysing ability? If you let the software take precedence, you DESERVE to have your boxen owned. Likewise so if you fail to maintain any kind of physical presence around your systems. Again, many ISPs don't let their sysops run remote admin software as a matter of policy because it presents an avenue of attack for the virii you seem to think Joe Averageuser is going to WANT to install. That a learning institute condones its usage is a breach of trust of the highest calibur.
--- Quote ---School and work computers are for work and nothing else.
--- End quote ---
Again, you're making an equation where no viable, rational basis exists for one. Work computers are designed to be used... well, for work. School computers are designed to be used AT A PLACE OF EDUCATION. If someone learns about a security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, is that work or play? If someone subsequently spreads the warning about this glitch on their message board, is that work or play? Now, if they decide they want to play Tribes, and wind up giving a dozen people the heads-up about this glitch because of that, is that work or play (admittedly stretching the definition)? It's all subjective, and restricting educational facilities to the definition of "work" held by any one person or group of people is nothing short of facism at best, McCarthyism at worst. Red Scare anyone?
Aloone_Jonez:
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---Are you high?
--- End quote ---
Nope, I don't do drugs but from the sounds of it you sound like you're high.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---Seriously, where do you get off equating work computers to school computers? Your job PAYS YOU not to look at porn, not to play games on the systems, and so on. School computers YOU PAY TO USE. Don't believe me? Look at your taxes some time. So you think that it's within their rights to ban you from the systems you pay to use, good on you.
--- End quote ---
So?
We pay to use the roads and if we don't use them for the purpose they're intended for we get punished.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---If you do crap that disrupts other people's usage time (porn, running game servers, etc) you deserve to be.
--- End quote ---
Right, at least we agree on something.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---Now I realise you live in 1984 over there in Omnibus England, but you don't see the problem with the system monitoring YOU and telling YOU that you can't look at this security site over here, or play CounterStrike over here, because it might be counterintuitive to the usage YOU PAY FOR?
--- End quote ---
Well we pay for education, not to sit around playing games. In my opinion all scools and coleges should make every student sign an agreement stating that they will only use the computers for educational purposes.
--- Quote from: Orethrius --- What if every ISP did this, would you be pissed off, or just take it like the lamb you're playing?
--- End quote ---
Hang on a second, a home you pay for your own Internet connection what you do with it is your bussiness. The school pays for their's and they can dictate how it is to be used even if you're paying for school indirectly via taxes, oh I fogot students don't pay much tax anyway and if they don't work (often they're too young to)they don't pay any.
--- Quote from: Orethrius --- Additionally, you completely write off the right to privacy! I don't know how you do things in England, but that's not acceptable behaviour over here. People have been sued for far, FAR less.
--- End quote ---
Now I can see your point here and it's a tricky one, on one side we need to prevent abuse but on another there's the whole privacy issue. When you're at shcool you don't have any privacy anyway (unless you're taking a shit) so why should it be any different for computer usage?
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---Accordingly, "disciplinary action" need not necessarily equate to "monitoring via inherently insecure tools that provide a valid avenue of attack."
--- End quote ---
You got me there, but that's not the point, of course the spying tools should be better, they need to be more secure but nothing is completely secure.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---Again, you miss the point. That's not acceptable behaviour, but do you take anti-virus software as anything but supplemental to your own two eyes and behaviour-analysing ability? If you let the software take precedence, you DESERVE to have your boxen owned. Likewise so if you fail to maintain any kind of physical presence around your systems. Again, many ISPs don't let their sysops run remote admin software as a matter of policy because it presents an avenue of attack for the virii you seem to think Joe Averageuser is going to WANT to install. That a learning institute condones its usage is a breach of trust of the highest calibur.
--- End quote ---
More often than not viruses aren't installed deliberatly, they come as trojans that have infected the warez people install. The most stupid thing is, the studants shouldn't be allowed to install stuff anyway, the machines should be locked down.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---Again, you're making an equation where no viable, rational basis exists for one. Work computers are designed to be used... well, for work. School computers are designed to be used AT A PLACE OF EDUCATION.
--- End quote ---
No you don't say.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---If someone learns about a security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, is that work or play? If someone subsequently spreads the warning about this glitch on their message board, is that work or play? Now, if they decide they want to play Tribes, and wind up giving a dozen people the heads-up about this glitch because of that, is that work or play (admittedly stretching the definition)? It's all subjective, and restricting educational facilities to the definition of "work" held by any one person or group of people is nothing short of facism at best, McCarthyism at worst. Red Scare anyone?
--- End quote ---
For a start as you and I know they shouldn't be using Internet Explorer anyway, but if they exlpoit the bug and fucks things up for others they deserve a ban.
Every day schools loose money because of studants abusing the IT equiptment if they put adequate controls in place (and this may include spyware) then they can save money and spend it on other things like teaching.
Jenda:
Flamewars, episode MMMCIX,
The school computers are also there for kids who do not have a puter/internet access at home. Don't forget those. Here in Canada, they even block email sites.
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