All Things Microsoft > Microsoft as a Company
Microsoft bans democracy
Jenda:
--- Quote ---This isn't like 1990 where we only have one computer for 6 kids. Everyone has there on computer and after we're done the work we play games. (...) there are too MANY computers for each kid, and when they are done they do something else.
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--- Quote ---the ratio in the States is roughly five computers to every registered student.
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Guys, don't know where you are living, but my school here in Canada the school has some 400 students in secondaire, and about say 50-100 computers all together, and my Czech (private) school of 160 students only has 9, although the students usually prefer to go home and use their own. Were you referring to home computers or school computers (when saying 5 comps per kid, everyone has their own) - and what sort of a school is that?
Aloone_Jonez:
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---Wait, so you don't even play Patience or anything of that order?
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No I don't play any games at all.
--- Quote from: Orethrius --- Maybe you get your kicks coding,
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I used to, but I got bored of it.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---Yeah, by correlation, teachers wouldn't be entrusted to not play games on the systems, and we'd ALL get more work done. Get real, that's not how the power structure works (though sometimes I wish it did).
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Well you always get the odd one or two bent teachers.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---Okay, fair enough. I'm not endorsing warez, and I doubt anyone else here has said as much. To that end, any campus that doesn't have P2P ports clamped down should expect to be brutally owned. They really don't need anything open but 80, and if they're feeling particularly generous, 5190.
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I agree.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---I'm glad you can afford to do that. On the other hand, you bring up an issue that I'm sure we've thoroughly worn out by now. We DO pay them to buy them for us,
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No you pay them for education not games!
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---and the ratio in the States is roughly five computers to every registered student.
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bullshit.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---It's ludicrous that we're expected to work on those five systems 24/7.
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I doubt they even run them 24/7.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---That being said, really, what's to stop someone from just booting off a LiveCD and doing what they want from VMware anyway?[/quot]
Easy to stop I've mentioned this before, just change the boot sequance to the hard disc first and password protect the bios.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---The only solutions I've heard you advocate so far are all software-based, and you have to admit, that's no substitute for having someone actually watching the physical systems.
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We weren't even allowed to use the computers without supervision.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---
Now not everybody is going to try to split their attention between thirty boxen at once, fair enough. That's what the entire Teacher's Assistant / Personal Assistant concept is all about. If you can't watch the physical presence, hire someone you trust that can, either for cash or class credits. Again, we're too dependent on software solving security issues, and that's a contradiction in terms really. If something's not physically secured, no amount of encryption and monitoring is going to solve that problem.
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Fair point.
--- Quote from: skyman8081 ---All it takes is one student who tried to finish a paper or had to print it, but couldn't because the machine had al kinds of spyware on it. It can happen, and it DOES happen.
And that 1:6 ratio still holds true at my school, a fairly well off High school thats only a few years old. A typical HS has about 4,000 students, to have 4,000 computers is hellishly expensive.
Lets say a student has to work on a project that is due, only he cant because all the computers are taken by people who downloaded and installed "Heavy Weapons Deluxe" on the school computer they were using, and were busy playing it. That student would be rightfully pissed off.
You need to remember that the school computers BELONG to the school, not YOU.
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I agree with you 100%.
--- Quote from: MarathoN ---I don't understand why people are talking about students screwing up a computer, Internet Explorer does that to the computer by default, so you can't totally blame the students for computers being destroyed.
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I agree, Internet Explore is the worst part of Windows.
--- Quote from: MarathoN ---That's why when I was in school I tried to install Firefox, but it wouldn't allow me to (Software Policy, it wouldn't allow you to install pretty much anything) :thumbdwn:
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While I can see your frustration I'm affraid this is the way it should be, sorry I meant not allowing people to install software, I think they should use Firefox and block Internet Explorer.
--- Quote from: MarathoN ---I also was thinking of trying to bring in Knoppix, but this idea never came to be a reality :nothappy:
What about the students out there (like me) who actually try and make the system more secure, but are locked out by a Software Policy that doesn't allow you to install any secure software... :fu:
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I understand again, but it really isn't your job and it's just tough shit if the IT admins are crap.
--- Quote from: MarathoN ---What I REALLY don't understand is why I was banned from the school computer network, despite my efforts to try and make the system more secure, I was actually trying to help the school, but they locked me out.... (this really isn't fair) :thumbdwn:
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Because you broke the rules - plain and simple.
Try going anout this a different way, speek to the administrators about the security issues with their network, write them a report, be polite and don't slag them off, if you make a good impression they might even offer you a job when you leave school.
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Kintaro:
:crys:
What happened to my flamewar, here I was flameing away on a totally different subject when BAM, a flooding explosion of flames rushes in through the side of the thread with a dozen people bitching about .
I think that they should Free Saddam Hussain, George Bush should be made King, and the Prince Harry should be given control over the entire United Kingdom. And Open Source Should Be Banned!
Kintaro:
Remeber Gpl Is Communism
BAN COMMUNISM TODAY!!!111oneoneone.
toadlife:
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---Again, you're making an equation where no viable, rational basis exists for one. Work computers are designed to be used... well, for work. School computers are designed to be used AT A PLACE OF EDUCATION. If someone learns about a security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, is that work or play? If someone subsequently spreads the warning about this glitch on their message board, is that work or play? Now, if they decide they want to play Tribes, and wind up giving a dozen people the heads-up about this glitch because of that, is that work or play (admittedly stretching the definition)?
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I'm a network/systems admin at a school, and students are NOT allowed carte blanche access to the computers. They are allowed to use them for educational purposes, and "educational purposes" is defined by the school's administation. The students have no say in the matter.
I am in charge of around eight computers labs. The computers run Win2k/WinXP and students log on as "guest" accounts. They basicially have the right to run the existing programs on the computer, print (10c a page at some locations) and save their stuff on removable media. When they log off or reboot their profiles are dumped and the next time they log in the same 'default profile' is loaded for them.
If you give students more access than that they will (intentionally or not) screw the computers up, which leads to extra work. That's something our IT staff cannot afford since we have four people (3.5 if you properly factor in the incompitent one) for 1100 workstations and 25 servers.
The students are in fact more restricted than the staff members. The staff members are still not allowed admin access to their machines, but they do not log on as guests.
--- Quote from: Orethrius ---It's all subjective, and restricting educational facilities to the definition of "work" held by any one person or group of people is nothing short of facism at best, McCarthyism at worst. Red Scare anyone?
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I guess we're a fascist country because that's how it works in just about every school in the U.S. The school owns the computers and the school decides what the computers are to be used for. The students don't own the computers any more than they own the buildings they are housed in. I've converesed with quite a few IT people from other schools in California and other states and not once have I heard of the school allowing the students to...
a) play games ojn school computers
b) have any kind of admin access to school computers
c) install software on school computers
There are exceptions to the rule (Speciafic computer related classes), but these are only exceptions.
Sure they might use school computers for chatting or message board posting, but we have th right to kick them off of the computer if another student needs to do something more school related, like type a paper.
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