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Refalm:
--- Quote from: kintaro ---Generally Mono and .NET binaries run pretty fast once everything has cached and compiled. It certainly is slower than a native binary and starting up, however it blows Java out of the water.
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The whole idea behind .NET is stolen from Sun JAVA.
However, I must agree that .NET is faster than JAVA. JAVA is pretty much succesful, even though it still slow to this date.
The only thing making it faster is the fact that more people have 1 GB RAM in their computers these days.
Kintaro:
A lot of ideas adopted and innovated in Java were used in .NET and the C# programming language, however the C# programming language and the way MSIL works has innovations that make it far better than Java.
solo:
--- Quote from: ksym ---Excellent!
This kind of system design should help us more perceptive OpenSource users/developers to stick fucked up legacy-unix design methods up GNU/Linux fanatics' asses.
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Sure...
--- Quote ---
Been waitin' for this kinda thing to happen for a long time now :)
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Well thanks, hope you end up helping us out :)
--- Quote ---
We'll see how it goes ...
I am kinda cynical though. If Komodoware is to succeed in the enterprise, you guys need a good userbase to embrace your "prodigy creation" ... and even if Komodo-runtime gains some fame, Microsoft will just ignore it and shove their standards up the developers' rectals with their megabillion budget. Kinda scary ...
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Microsoft is gonna be gone, if not by the hands of us, then by the hands of Apple, who is only getting more powerful.
--- Quote ---
I just hope Microsoft makes a critical mistake in the future, so that other (free) .NET/MONO projects could get their piece of the dotnet-cake.
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What I'm saying is Microsoft already made the critical mistake. They already gave us a way to get a piece of the dotnet cake. Even if they introduce new APIs (they are with Longhorn) we will still make an open version now that Microsoft gave us the base platform. These Longhorn Linux APIs don't have to be centralized: they can be optional and available when needed by a Longhorn .NET app is run on Linux.
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Agreed. Though i remind you that most GNU/Linux users don't just "give a fuck" when talking about ABI interoperability, since they just install their apps from some monolithic collection of precompiled/pre-ported packages designed for the One-And-The-Only distro they support.
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Good for them! I hope that works out for them. Perhaps they'll send me a post card if everything goes well?
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This "blindness" is why I really hate when some lazy ass users join the GNU/Linux community just to use the system, at the same time blaming Linux being too "restrictive" or "incomplete" if they can't just install stuff by clicking setup.exe ... I wish all the new users joining "our cause" would be hard-boiled hackers, willing to spend sleepless nights by implementing some missing features or creating new solutions to common problems (like you guys created Komodo runtime).
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Well thanks for the kind words, and your right about Linux users who complain about that stuff, they should try one of the more risque distributions (like Komodo or GoboLinux)
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Ooh, that would be so lovely :)
Hey i got a proposition for the runtime component collection:
instead of Komodo you could use the word "Monolith".
Mono = like the Mono runtime which is the base
and Monolith is a stylised short form for "monolithic" which means something "whole" and "well organized" (if i recall right).
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Not a bad idea, but Emotion should run on several .NET runtimes including Mono and MS.NET.
--- Quote ---
Hmm, maybe this kinda name would be too hackerish ... heh
Anyway if ya do the name contest, I'll put this proposition there :)
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Yeah idk, people use monolith to describe slow outdated code a lot. Definitely submit it if we have a contest though.
--- Quote ---
And now some (stupid/noobish) questions:
How much slower are the Mono-executables compared to binaries compiled as native binaries?
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[fury@komodo KomodoSource]$ ./SpeedTest # thats GCC-compiled native ELF
46566 operations in one second
[fury@komodo KomodoSource]$ ./SpeedTest.exe # thats C# compiled CIL code
285138 operations in one second.
[fury@komodo KomodoSource]$
Yeah with this test, Mono seems to perform better than GCC! Lol, no that was just the first result I got. Funny though. It's more like 600k for GCC and 300k for Mono. Of course that's just one test though. The speed of CLI executables will only get faster
as the code generated by Mono's JIT compiler gets better. That's the part that converts CLI code into native code and runs it. Mono does not interpret it's executables by default, but interpreting is aavailable with the "mint" program (dunno how it's useful though)
The C code for the test:
#include
#include
int main()
{
time_t start = 0;
time_t end = 0;
int result = 0;
start = end = time(NULL);
int x = 1;
while (end == start) {
int i = x * x;
x *= 2;
++result;
end = time(NULL);
}
printf("%d operations in one second\n", result);
}
The C# code for the test:
using System;
public class Whatever {
public static int Main()
{
DateTime start = DateTime.Now;
int result = 0;
int i = 1;
while (start + new TimeSpan(0, 0, 1) > DateTime.Now) {
int x = i * i;
i *= 2;
++result;
}
Console.WriteLine(result + " operations in one second.");
return 0;
}
}
--- Quote ---
I know that the half-binaries produced with mono/.NET-compiler can be pre-compiled to be native binaries, but does this process speed up the executables enough, so that one could implement kick ass games with the Mono framework (for example)?
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They aren't half-binaries, they are completely CLI bytecode (platform-independent). One executable will work with all platforms. Kick ass games: Yes, this is already possible, the speed of executables is fairly good and the Tao APIs provide .NET bindings for OpenGL, OpenAL, SDL, DevIL, Cg shaders, etc.
--- Quote ---
Are mono-executables/libraries automatically runtime-relocatable? eg. the developer could call something like the Win32 getModuleDirectory() to get the executables/librarys runtime location in order to load all static data?
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[/QUOTE]
Yes the libraries and files are relocatable, and yes you can easily access the paths regarding your application (like where it lives, etc). Libraries which are referenced by assemblies (.NET lingo for executables) are searched for by Mono, and use the MONO_PATH variable for that
Kintaro:
I have been looking through the Emotion source code and I like what I see. I will try building it soon.
solo:
Great, I'm excited to hear people are looking through it! I'll update it soon: the code is getting multiple graphics backends right now.
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