Operating Systems > Linux and UNIX
Linspire Questions
Jenda:
--- Quote from: ksym ---Precisely.
(did i spell that word correctly?)
--- End quote ---
Indeed, you're becoming very proficient at spelling...
The fact that it's not easy to distribute in binary form for Linux is a nuissance, and should be worked upon - it probably is. This doesn't justify your hard wording.
Linux NEEDS standardisation, most of us will, I think agree, but the fact remains that ultra-orthodox-one-mold-one-prog standards as in MS-W did not prove to be most efficient, or secure.
ksym:
--- Quote from: Jenda ---Indeed, you're becoming very proficient at spelling...
The fact that it's not easy to distribute in binary form for Linux is a nuissance, and should be worked upon - it probably is. This doesn't justify your hard wording.
Linux NEEDS standardisation, most of us will, I think agree, but the fact remains that ultra-orthodox-one-mold-one-prog standards as in MS-W did not prove to be most efficient, or secure.
--- End quote ---
Yay, im catching up some language here ... this trolling not so useless after all =)
Total dictatorship over the userland is not a good idea, like in Windows, since it introduces a lot of security problems ...
I think all GNU/Linux needs are good ABI standards.
NOT centralized userland/ABI, but STANDARDS. All conforming OS's could then implement these standards in their own way, but stay compatible. The Komodo -runtime is a good start for such. Another good standard is the LSB (Linux Standard Base), which actually defines the low-level ABI and it's functionality. I personally see the LSB as an extension for POSIX.
The problem is, that most opensource coders are too arrogant or "ethical" (or more spesifically, they lie to themselves) to adhere to such standards. Most GNU/Linux developers piss on LSB, and call it "a nazi standard for the enterprise" ... and since the Mono (and so Komodo -runtime) are based upon a back-ported enterprise application (MS .NET framework), will most hippiecommie coder bastards frown upon it too ... and this is so sad :(
Luckily, I've been developing a native-binary distribution framework called Exo-Runtime, which tries to compile POSIX compliant software into a sandboxed (and so partially managed) form ... tho I've been mocked for trying such.
I think that the OSS scene consist of three kinds of people:
1) The people who are really into the ethics of Open Source and Free Software. They diss at everything that is not GPL. Unfortunately these idealists are also the most talented coders, but they refuse to follow any enterprise driven standards ... making eg. binary distribution hard when using their software components.
2) The wannabe-gurus who just hang in the scene, and be content with everything the GPL license provides them, eg. end users who just use the GNU/Linux scene as an excuse to show-off and diss at other people. They REALLY DO NOT CARE about how GNU/Linux systems work, or what they could be made to be.
3) The rare, perceptive and innovatice coders/developers, who really understand that GPL and closed-source MUST and CAN be united in a practical way. Most BSD people are like these, and the people who develop the Mono runtime and the LSB standards. They get the most flames and blames, but must tolerate it ...
The GNU/linux scene is full of blind and intolerant (or fake-intolerant wannabe) people. This does not help GNU/Linux at all in the enterprise.
Personally, I am an elitist. But rather than jerking over some spesific distro/Desktop-environtment/application, I see all the problems GNU/Linux has, and try to make people share my thoughts. People want to get into enterprise with their linsux boxes? This is what I want too, but the scene is so fucking decadent and flegmatic, that nothing is gonna happen for a long time ...
Kintaro:
The thing is some programmers want to use Qt while others use Gtk and then some more want to write their own because they think both suck.
piratePenguin:
--- Quote from: ksym ---Most GNU/Linux developers piss on LSB, and call it "a nazi standard for the enterprise" ... and since the Mono (and so Komodo -runtime) are based upon a back-ported enterprise application (MS .NET framework), will most hippiecommie coder bastards frown upon it too ... and this is so sad :(
--- End quote ---
Where has this happened?
--- Quote from: ksym ---Luckily, I've been developing a native-binary distribution framework called Exo-Runtime, which tries to compile POSIX compliant software into a sandboxed (and so partially managed) form
--- End quote ---
Glad to see your trying to fix what you see as problems with most GNU/Linux systems.
--- Quote from: ksym ---... tho I've been mocked for trying such.
--- End quote ---
Where?
--- Quote from: ksym ---1) The people who are really into the ethics of Open Source and Free Software. They diss at everything that is not GPL.
--- End quote ---
That, is bullshit. GPL is not synonymous with free software or open source, it's one free-software licence out of lots. And now, I can't figure out if you mean that we diss everything not GPL (wrong) or we diss everything non-free (correct).
--- Quote from: ksym ---Unfortunately these idealists are also the most talented coders
--- End quote ---
I dunno if that's true - take a look at Linus Torvalds.
--- Quote from: ksym ---but they refuse to follow any enterprise driven standards
--- End quote ---
Perhaps because there's less need whenever they're going to be distributing their packages in source-form?
--- Quote from: ksym ---... making eg. binary distribution hard when using their software components.
--- End quote ---
They'll most likely not be distributing anything in binary form and therfore don't need to follow "enterprise driven standards".
--- Quote from: ksym ---3) The rare, perceptive and innovatice coders/developers, who really understand that GPL and closed-source MUST and CAN be united in a practical way. Most BSD people are like these, and the people who develop the Mono runtime and the LSB standards. They get the most flames and blames, but must tolerate it ...
--- End quote ---
Where? I've never seen any of this happen...
--- Quote from: ksym ---The GNU/linux scene is full of blind and intolerant (or fake-intolerant wannabe) people.
--- End quote ---
Maybe you're one of them. You're not seeing the fact that some of the stuff you never shut up about isn't all that important to most people by far.
--- Quote from: ksym ---Personally, I am an elitist. But rather than jerking over some spesific distro/Desktop-environtment/application, I see all the problems GNU/Linux has, and try to make people share my thoughts. People want to get into enterprise with their linsux boxes? This is what I want too, but the scene is so fucking decadent and flegmatic, that nothing is gonna happen for a long time ...
--- End quote ---
So that's why GNU/Linux isn't likely to ever make it!
I think not.
ksym:
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Perhaps because there's less need whenever they're going to be distributing their packages in source-form?
--- End quote ---
Yes. This is what makes them blind ... they need to see, that enterprise NEEDS stable ABI's. A stable API means nothing in the long run, unless most of the software using it are OpenSource, and can be distributed in source form.
And about this mocking, oh it is so true. I am not talking about these forums, but in the IRC I get mocked because my ideas are considered "too radical" or something. When I suggest people that they should embrace LSB in their software development, they either ignore me, state that "LSB is useless crap/nazi standard/whatever" or they just tell me to stfu.
This happens at least in those finnish channels i sometimes chat in ...
Okay, people don't often mock me, but most of em ignore my ideas, or tell me to shut up. They won't even give me any constructive criticism. So I think it's "ksym versus the world" ...
Luckily I am free to develop my ideas. We'll see if they are any good, or if I just should delete all my shit ..
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