All Things Microsoft > Microsoft Software
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Aloone_Jonez:
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Where do I "constantly" badmouth non-free software? I just don't install it on my computer and support it as least as I possibly.
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Oh yes you do badmouth it, do I really have to give an example?
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Good. Well, let me explain why I have this attitude towards non-free software then.
Fundamentally, the developers of non-free software are selfish (And I don't care what their cause is. Making a living or whatnot. It doesn't change the fact.) and inherently evil (Maybe not so much as Hitler was, but I never suggested that.).
--- End quote ---
Well one day you'll have to get a job and earn money and I can't see you sharing all your wealth so then you'll be being selfish.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Selfishness/evil might well be the basis of capitalism, and I might well see selfishness/evil everywhere around me, but that is no excuse to excuse it. So I don't excuse it.
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Tough shit matey, when you start earning you'll start contributing to the capitalist ragime running Irland.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---I complain! I fight! And when there is an alternative (which there is for software), I support the alternative instead.
--- End quote ---
Good for you, but I'd rather people like yourself campaign for something more constuctive.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Am I a luney?
--- End quote ---
Yes.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Should I wake up to the real world?
--- End quote ---
Yes.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Well, I am awake, and I'm living in the same world as you.
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You may be awake and living in the real world but you're certainly aren't fully alert as you have no experiance of working in real industry, this is a part of the real world you have yet to see.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Well, tough shit for them.
A more educated opinion would be that a (small) subset of GNU/Linux users won't use install or use non-free software on their own computers.
Well those Muslim terrorists don't (AFAIK (which isn't much)) have much of a cause.
Well free software advocates like myself do.
And some people will say that we give GNU/Linux or "Linux" a bad name. Others will say that we give GNU/Linux a good name. It's like anything. Some will like, some will dislike.
I'd also stop giving them a good name, and be giving up on the cause.
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That depends on your point of view but; one group of people (the proprietary software companies) have considerable resources (in the form of capital) to offer you, while the other (GPL fanboy club) are mostly made up of children and students who can only offer their time, I know which I'd rather have on my side.
In my opinion the best way to attack Microsoft is to use alternatives to thier products (as I'm sure you agree) but this is where our similarities end. I don't care whether the alternatives are proprietary or free because just not using MS porducts will hurt them and also encourage innovation by other companies. Oh yes I forgot to mention the fact that I use Windows but that's because it'd be such a huge inconvenience not too and I don't think MS are worth the trouble. I support OpenOffice, Opera and Thunderbird and if everyone did the same MS would be in more than enough trouble even if they kept Windows and lost all their other product I'd be more than satisfied.
Why should people (like you) support proprietary software for Linux?
Simple, because proprietary developers will start to develop and improve Linux versions of ther Windows products and if this happens Linux will become more attractive to people migrating away from Windows. Hopefully these companies will then start to invest money in Linux too, who knows they could even share some of their code too. Look at sun for example, Star Office was proprietary for years until they released OpenOffice, Opera is now free as in beer, who knows one day it might become truely free as well.
Jack2000:
Dudes you'v got problems
piratePenguin:
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---Oh yes you do badmouth it, do I really have to give an example?
--- End quote ---
Yes.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---Well one day you'll have to get a job and earn money and I can't see you sharing all your wealth so then you'll be being selfish.
--- End quote ---
Quite right.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---Tough shit matey, when you start earning you'll start contributing to the capitalist ragime running Irland.
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Quite right.
WTF do you expect me to do? If I don't be selfish to the point that I have no choice on the matter, what more can one ask?
I have a choice on pretty much all the software I use. Just like everyone else with their own computer. I can install Windows or GNU/Linux, I'll pick GNU/Linux, the fact that it's free software being a huge contributor there. Firefox, Opera. Firefox. Same.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---Good for you, but I'd rather people like yourself campaign for something more constuctive.
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I'd rather campaign for something I feel strongly about more than something "more constructive".
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---You may be awake and living in the real world but you're certainly aren't fully alert as you have no experiance of working in real industry, this is a part of the real world you have yet to see.
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I amn't fully alert because I have no experience of working in real industry... Of course!
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---That depends on your point of view
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That's exactly my point.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---one group of people (the proprietary software companies) have considerable resources (in the form of capital) to offer you, while the other (GPL fanboy club) are mostly made up of children and students who can only offer their time, I know which I'd rather have on my side.
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I think that's more commercial versus hobyists.
Interesting point about the "GPL fanboy club" being "mostly made up of children and students". Can you back it up, please?
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---Why should people (like you) support proprietary software for Linux?
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Since when has that been the question?
Anyhow, I just wish RMS and friends never released the LGPL (thereby inviting non-free software along). I made a long enough post about this before and I ain't doing it agian.
As long as I'm never under too much pressure to install some non-free program on my free setup, I don't mind as much.
WMD:
One vote for Moron Zone.
Aloone_Jonez:
Why?
A crappy MS product help thread has generated an intelligent debate, what's so moronic about this?
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Yes.
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You describe it as an insult to humanity.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---WTF do you expect me to do? If I don't be selfish to the point that I have no choice on the matter, what more can one ask?
--- End quote ---
You know if you look at it that way proprietary software is really no more evil than earning money.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---I have a choice on pretty much all the software I use. Just like everyone else with their own computer. I can install Windows or GNU/Linux, I'll pick GNU/Linux, the fact that it's free software being a huge contributor there. Firefox, Opera. Firefox. Same.
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I feel we're going round in circles now.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---I amn't fully alert because I have no experience of working in real industry... Of course!
--- End quote ---
That's true alright.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---I think that's more commercial versus hobyists.
--- End quote ---
Yes, that's right commercial software is where the real money is, and yes some of it is open source, and yes we have established how it's not as efficent at generating revinue.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Interesting point about the "GPL fanboy club" being "mostly made up of children and students". Can you back it up, please?
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Yes, there are companies like Sun and IBM doing their bit but they are also pro-proprietary software, the only people who are anti-proprietary are mainly people who don't have a commercial interest in software like the groups of people listed in my quote above.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Since when has that been the question?
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So it wasn't the question I was just making a point and now you're agruing with it in your quote below which is fare enough.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Anyhow, I just wish RMS and friends never released the LGPL (thereby inviting non-free software along). I made a long enough post about this before and I ain't doing it agian.
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Why is the LGPL bad? What's so bad about companies being allowed to develop non-free software for Linux?
Go on do me a favour and provide a valid argument to counter the last paragraph of my previous post. If you want the total amount of proprietary software in the world to decline then your best bet it to enourage it's use on the Linux platform especially when it comes to pushing developers to create Linux versions of their Windows programs. I hope you can figure out why this is but I've got a feeling I'll have to explain it to you.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---As long as I'm never under too much pressure to install some non-free program on my free setup, I don't mind as much.
--- End quote ---
That's the good thing about Linux, you have a choice.
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