All Things Microsoft > Microsoft Software

MS-DOS Date

<< < (13/20) > >>

Aloone_Jonez:

--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---
No, GNU shouldn't welcome non-free software. They did it with the LGPL, but now I'm kinda thinking that they didn't do if because of this, but they did it because very quickly somone would've made another C library that would alow non-free software to link to, more people would use it, and perhaps, GNU would have to eventually too.
--- End quote ---

The GPL wouldn't stop people from compiling proprietary software for Linux anyway, I could dynamically link my proprietary code to a GPL library and this wouldn't violate the licence because my program wouldn't actually contain any of the code.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---People need at least a small bit of money (or a large bit of money), to pay for whatever they need (quite a confusing term).

Most people only earn enough for themselves and maybe their family (and the government). If they had to give a "vast majority" of it to charity (that does, I think, qualify as sharing), they would be at a tremendous loss (depending on how much they earn and how much they share, they could be unable to pay rent and buy food.).

However, for some people, sharing a vast majority of what they earn wouldn't be such a danger (e.g. Bill Gates).
--- End quote ---

You're only mentioning a big fat money grabing company here, what about the small proprietary software developer who's writing a small database application for a small company? They're only earning not earning a fat cat sallery and neither are they taking over the entire industry, how are they evil?


--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---That might be true, but I can't really see this ever happening.
--- End quote ---

Well it does in the hardware industry and even in the software industry when it comes to things other than Office software and operating systems, I can name many diffreant drawing programs all competing with each other there's, Adobe Illustrator, Correl Draw, Micrografix Draw, Inkscape and Openoffice Draw. all of which co-exist happily without any trouble.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Microsoft isn't the first software company with a monopoly, and they might not be the last either.
--- End quote ---

I can't think of any other company, at first I was going to suggest Adobe but their format's open and they do have many significant competitiion.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Having read that (the rest of the post), I'm still not convinced.
--- End quote ---

Well I didn't hope to convince you I just wanted you to look at things from another perspective.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---A web-browser is a very important tool. If Opera allowd it, I would say that alot (probably most) of GNU/Linux distributions would ship with  the non-free Opera web-browser.
--- End quote ---

Yes they would and no doubt they'd also ship Firefox too, most Linux distributions come with three or so pieces of software capable of performing similar functions.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin --- Firefox would have less users and developers,
--- End quote ---

That's competition for you.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin --- and in the future when new technologies are invented for the web,
--- End quote ---

That's interesting you're now talking about inventions which leads nicely on to innovation something that Mozilla Firofox isn't in fact it's no more innovitive than Internet Explorer, all its features are coppied from elsewhere, it's only popular because it's free.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin --- it'll be increasingly difficult to survive supporting only free software.

There are very few completely free GNU/Linux distributions out there (but that depends on what you mean by "completely free GNU/Linux distributions"). Most come with Java, and other less-significant non-free software.
--- End quote ---

I can see your point here, your main fear that proprietary  software could become an essential evil in your otherwize clean free operating system, you've mentiond Java, but what would you have done if Sun hadn't ported Java? Would you GNU lot have gone about the traditional Linux approach of bashing togeather an inferiour half-baked only semmi-working alternative? You could say "hey I know it's shit but at least it's totally free" would this be really worth the trouble when it'd just put more roadblocks in front of people who want to use your operating system?

I'd also like to ask you, you seem to be very happy with your situation at the moment, why do you think this will/could change?


--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---I don't think explitically allowing non-free software on GNU will further GNU's cause (freedom), but I'd like to think otherwise.
--- End quote ---

I know I've made this point before, but how would doing something that would potentially increase the use of GNU Linux which is free software reduce people's freedom in general? Increasing Linux's userbase will also encourage the development of free soiftware which would be great.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---In what way do I seem to be blaming them?
--- End quote ---

Sorry, I suppose that was a bad choice of words, my point is you are being selfish by not careing for other people who hve other needs than your own.


--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---I know my situation is pretty damn good. I know some other people's isn't so good. I don't know how important it is to them that they don't support non-free software. But I can narrow it down a small bit to: most people don't give a fuck. And IMO that's partly the reason that non-free everything and other (even slight) evils (or non-ideals) are so common in this world.
--- End quote ---

That's true your opinion only represents a small minority, so why do you want to make everyone else suffer because of what you believe is right? Why should I and many other people have to indure Windows just because a very small minority of people don't want vendors who produce the software we use to develop Linux versions of their products? So what even if you believe it might make life slightly harder for yourself (and I do doubt this) what about everyone else surely they are just as important if not even more so.

Orethrius:

--- Quote from: skyman8081 ---You know, I this thread has a lot of Fuckidycocktards. ;)
--- End quote ---

 Just one that I can see.  :D

Having said that, I long for the days when people could agree to disagree, particularly when neither party is going to convince the other that their particular viewpoint qualifies as absolute truth.

worker201:
Aloone_Jonez is wrong.
PiratePenguin is wrong.

Worker201 is right.
(hehe, worker201 is drinking!)

piratePenguin:

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---The GPL wouldn't stop people from compiling proprietary software for Linux anyway, I could dynamically link my proprietary code to a GPL library and this wouldn't violate the licence
--- End quote ---
No you can't, actually.

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---You're only mentioning a big fat money grabing company here, what about the small proprietary software developer who's writing a small database application for a small company? They're only earning not earning a fat cat sallery and neither are they taking over the entire industry, how are they evil?
--- End quote ---
There are many, many people and companies that share all the source code that they own.
Do you think it's likely that many people could possibly share a vast majority of their wealth?

Because I do think (and many agree) that it's likely that many companies could share all their software and not be at a great loss.

Said database company, how would they lose out by makeing their software free? Especially if they're only makeing it for a single company - they can sell the source code to them (and to anyone else if they wish) and then offer whatever services to them.

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---Well it does in the hardware industry and even in the software industry when it comes to things other than Office software and operating systems, I can name many diffreant drawing programs all competing with each other there's, Adobe Illustrator, Correl Draw, Micrografix Draw, Inkscape and Openoffice Draw. all of which co-exist happily without any trouble.
--- End quote ---
How well do Adobe Illustrator, Correl Draw and Micrografix (whom I've never heard of) Draw read eachothers file formats?

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---I can't think of any other company, at first I was going to suggest Adobe but their format's open and they do have many significant competitiion.
--- End quote ---
There doesn't need to be any other company yet. Microsoft won't be gone for a long long time, most likely.

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---Yes they would and no doubt they'd also ship Firefox too, most Linux distributions come with three or so pieces of software capable of performing similar functions.
--- End quote ---
True.

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---That's competition for you.
--- End quote ---
If Opera was free, we could have two browsers of near-equal brilliance.

That's sharing for you.

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---That's interesting you're now talking about inventions which leads nicely on to innovation something that Mozilla Firofox isn't in fact it's no more innovitive than Internet Explorer, all its features are coppied from elsewhere
--- End quote ---
Netscape was the most innovative web-browser to date. Everyone is copying it.

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---I can see your point here, your main fear that proprietary  software could become an essential evil in your otherwize clean free operating system, you've mentiond Java, but what would you have done if Sun hadn't ported Java? Would you GNU lot have gone about the traditional Linux approach of bashing togeather an inferiour half-baked only semmi-working alternative? You could say "hey I know it's shit but at least it's totally free" would this be really worth the trouble when it'd just put more roadblocks in front of people who want to use your operating system?
--- End quote ---
Err, no. gcj

If fact, if Sun never ported Java to GNU/Linux, I'd say gcj would probably have never been started.
There's no real need for an alternative to Java (as a language).

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---I'd also like to ask you, you seem to be very happy with your situation at the moment, why do you think this will/could change?
--- End quote ---
How couldn't it? There's non-free software everywhere. It significantly out numbers free software.

I've already answered this question with the Opera/Firefox bit.
But that's by no means the only way the situation for me could change.

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---I know I've made this point before, but how would doing something that would potentially increase the use of GNU Linux which is free software reduce people's freedom in general?
--- End quote ---
Well that's not all there is to it. Especially if people are switching to GNU/Linux just because of the non-free software.

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---Sorry, I suppose that was a bad choice of words, my point is you are being selfish by not careing for other people who hve other needs than your own.
--- End quote ---
Then in what way should I be caring for them?

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---That's true your opinion only represents a small minority, so why do you want to make everyone else suffer because of what you believe is right? Why should I and many other people have to indure Windows just because a very small minority of people don't want vendors who produce the software we use to develop Linux versions of their products? So what even if you believe it might make life slightly harder for yourself (and I do doubt this) what about everyone else surely they are just as important if not even more so.
--- End quote ---
You would all be able to use GNU/Linux at your will.


After reading http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html (again), I partly forgive GNU for inventing the LGPL.

skyman8081:
What about the freedom to keep code to yourself?

You seem to be advocating the forced sharing of code, something I just can't do.

Information may 'want' to be free, but it often doesn't need to be.

Since your so adamant about sharing, why don't you share your social security number with us.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page