Author Topic: Open source hardware.  (Read 2565 times)

skyman8081

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #15 on: 15 September 2005, 22:53 »
Even going by The Communist Mannifeto, it's a fucking retarded idea.

Do you really support, a theory that advocates:
  • Abolition of personal property, and inheretence.
  • A state-controlled education monopoly, which is an excuse to indoctinate the "correct" philosophy.  NO PRIVATE ALTERNATIVES.  PERIOD.(Not original to the Communist Manifesto)
  • Taxing the rich until they are poor.  Why make more money if the state will steal it all away?(Not original to the Communist Manifesto)
  • No personal transportation, busses and subways for everyone.
Retarded idea, any way you put it.

Capitalism kicks ass.
2 motherfuckers have sigged me so far.  Fuck yeah!


worker201

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #16 on: 16 September 2005, 00:26 »
I don't have my copy of "Communist Manifesto" with me at work, but I am pretty sure you don't have one nearby either.  So we'll take a look at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto

Please notice that none of the stuff you claim to know about communism is mentioned there.  In fact, these are common unintelligent criticisms of communism by people who have no idea what the fuck they are talking about.  

Furthermore, note that the "Communist Manifesto" is a theoretical essay, not some speech Lenin read when he took over Russia.  You ascribe to it power that it doesn't have.  No book is so fundamental that it represents everything, not even the Bible.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't believe Marx was perfectly right.  But I don't think he was perfectly wrong either.  And I don't want to argue the relative merits of communism/Marxism anyway.  I just wish to make sure that nobody I know is spreading mistruths or outright lies about communism.

Kintaro

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #17 on: 16 September 2005, 06:16 »
Quote from: skyman8081
Even going by The Communist Mannifeto, it's a fucking retarded idea.

Do you really support, a theory that advocates:
  • Abolition of personal property, and inheretence.
  • A state-controlled education monopoly, which is an excuse to indoctinate the "correct" philosophy.  NO PRIVATE ALTERNATIVES.  PERIOD.(Not original to the Communist Manifesto)
  • Taxing the rich until they are poor.  Why make more money if the state will steal it all away?(Not original to the Communist Manifesto)
  • No personal transportation, busses and subways for everyone.
Retarded idea, any way you put it.


Not really retarded, I think there should be equality in the world. Communism is still in alpha stage development yet. Actually I am not sure if it even compiles yet, let alone runs.

Quote

Capitalism kicks ass.

If your a selfish, self-centred, prick, who is willing to leave half the world is poverty, then yes.

skyman8081

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #18 on: 16 September 2005, 07:08 »
Better half the world, than all of it.

Implementation is a needed part of a good idea.  Guess what, if it can't be implemented, IT DOESN'T WORK.  Why should I use software that is "better", yet it can't even compile yet.

Take an economics class at some point, you lean things that are important to not being an idiot.  Like the fact that economics is not, nor will it ever be, about fairness.  only the most efficient solution.
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Kintaro

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #19 on: 16 September 2005, 07:53 »
I never said we had to use it yet. But I believe it can work in time, besides I think most of Communism sucks anyway. I am more into the idea of eligitarianism and other things. However the most important aspect is democracy which has been neglected in nearly every communist/socialist regime to date. That is the problem, if we can democratically have a eligtarian/commie/socialist regime, that would be ideal.

skyman8081

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #20 on: 16 September 2005, 09:13 »
I suppose you can have a communist democracy.  With one party.

Even Adam Smith thought that the government should have some intervention in monopolies.

Ayn Rand capitalism, is way the fuck out there, even I look at that and think, "wow, fuck that shit."
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Aloone_Jonez

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #21 on: 16 September 2005, 14:08 »
Quote from: kintaro
In the old days it used to be possible to fix problems on an old radio because schematics were released. This could help people a lot with newer technology. Tracing circuit diagrams is easier than reverse engineering software to fix it, but it is still time consuming and hard.

Reverse engineering hardware is a lot harder nowadays (if not even harder than software), it was easy back in the day when all of the componants were though hole and PCBs contained no more than two layers, but nowadays it's nearly impossible to trace an 8 layer PCB, an even after that you have to reverse engineer all the code on all the programmable chips.

Quote from: kintaro
Question: are schematics actually licenced?

I don't know, I've seen that some free schematics have conditions attatched to them like not for commercial use and give me credit or provide the origional source but I don't know if these are legally binding.

Quote
If they are not then someone could set up a wikipedia like site for releasing traced schematics from hardware to allow people to fix it.

A forum I visit has a section for people to post service manuals and they're very relaxed when it comes to posting copyrighted material. :)


Quote from: Jenda
I ain't saying that food is simple; I myself looove cooking and experimentation therewith. What I AM saying, OTOH, is that you don't really see the difference between todays breads and those from a few years ago (although European breads differ from American ones et al. - the Europian types are edible :D), there is no simple, linear upgrading.

I see your point here, food is similar to textiles in that respect though progress is being made all the time in farming, manufacture and foods for people on special diets.

Quote from: Jenda
OK, I now realise this is quite important - and with this I have finally completed creating my opinion on music and movies as well:
In other words, this is indeed the difference between art and science. Open source seems to work very well with some models. It has always been used in general science  and knowledge (Newton, Einstein etc.), recently software and knowledge organisation (wiki), possibly eventually in pharmaceutics, chemistry, hardware. All these areas are scientific, and OBJECTIVE. They have progress, they can be written down.
Within those where this doesn't apply, the OS model cannot be used. These are all artistic, and therefore SUBJECTIVE. They depend closely on their creator (musician,  director, chef) and are unimprovable (because this is a matter of opinion), unreproductable (no two instruments, ingredients or actors are the same) and THEREFORE UNCHANGEABLE. The OS model implicitly expects the ability to change the work in question, hence cannot be used here.
I am sorry for the uncontiguousness of my post - I am making this up on the go, and I'll try to get it a little more organised later. I hope some of you understand what I mean.


Art can be free too, the Internet is already full of free music pictures and videos. Software, hardware and pharmaceuticals are totally differant to science. Software isn't science and neither is hardware even though they rely on scientific concepts such as mathematics, physics and chemestry, in fact they are design and tecnollogy rather than science. Science is discovering things about materials, the world around you and the universe in general, it's more about answering questions rather than designing things even though there is an element of design when it comes to experiments.

Quote from: Jenda
Well this doesn't really differ from the OSS model, except that casual contributors can't (yet...?) work from their home PC. The drug companies wouldn't have to spend the money, because it would be a community effort. Hopefully this would result in an overall faster dev cycle, as it does in some OSS areas.


I've never fully believed the arugment that the community will always fix any problems in a product anyway, this simply isn't the case, often open source programs (just like proprietary ones) have old know yet to be squashed.

I don't think this argument can be applied to medicine, drug companies are highly regulated they can't test there products on people until they've gone though many tests (some involving animals) before they even start medical trials. If drugs were to go open source it would be imposible to trace which tests have been carried out on what group of people and gathering the results would be a problem to not to mentioning the safety implications of this, don't for get we're talking about people's lives here not whether some buggy piece of software crashes or not.
This is not a Windows help forum, however please do feel free to sign up and agree or disagree with our views on Microsoft.

Oh and FUCKMicrosoft! :fu:

Jenda

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #22 on: 16 September 2005, 20:10 »
I am in a hurry and won't be around next week, but:
I meant to separate the activities/sciences* into two groups. I'll call them Objective and Subjective, because these describe the difference best. The "Objective" I also call scientific, or exact. Ever heard of "Exact Science" and "Humanitarian Science"? This is similar. Exact sciences are objective, eg. mathematics, physics, biology, statistics, goegraphy, even history to a certain extent. Humanitarian sciences tend to be Subjective (although history, which is/should be objective, is often classified as humanitarian), and include arts, literature, politology. Law is on the edge of the two groups, or belongs in both.
It seems to me that the OS model can only be applied to the Objective sciences.

*This word refers to what is in latin called ars (plural artes), and that would mean crafts, or areas of human occupation/proffession, NOT SIMPLY SCIENCE OF NATURE. (BTW science means "knowledge" in latin).

Kintaro

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #23 on: 17 September 2005, 08:56 »
Quote from: skyman8081
I suppose you can have a communist democracy.  With one party.

Even Adam Smith thought that the government should have some intervention in monopolies.

Ayn Rand capitalism, is way the fuck out there, even I look at that and think, "wow, fuck that shit."


Why only one party? Really, what limits it?

I think more socialist consitution is required.

Jack2000

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #24 on: 17 September 2005, 14:29 »
Come to bulgaria Our former President was a "king"(no realy his fatherr was aking)
and the parliament was socialistic + our constitution is the most liberal Ever!

What more do you want :) it is a start the world should learn from us . :)

Kintaro

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #25 on: 18 September 2005, 11:13 »
Thanks for the offer but I enjoy being able to write in English far to much for that.

Jenda

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #26 on: 25 September 2005, 22:32 »
Isn't the Bulgarian King prime minister now?

Orethrius

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #27 on: 26 September 2005, 08:45 »
Quote from: Jenda
Isn't the Bulgarian King prime minister now?

Misread that as "Isn't Burger King using prime Meunster now?"  :o

Proudly posted from a Gentoo Linux system.

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Refalm

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #28 on: 26 September 2005, 13:03 »
Quote from: Jenda
Isn't the Bulgarian King prime minister now?

Yes, after the nation got into Kapitalismâ„¢, the prime minister of Bulgaria returned to get elected.

However, now the communienist party is ruling the country, leaving the former king to rot.

piratePenguin

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Re: Open source hardware.
« Reply #29 on: 30 September 2005, 20:06 »
Freedom CPU looks like an interesting project. But it doesn't seem to have been updated in a while.

EDIT: Also just found: http://www.opencores.org/
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