Stop Microsoft
All Things Microsoft => Microsoft Software => Topic started by: Xeniczone on 3 March 2006, 04:17
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/53/Vista_5308_Desktop.png/800px-Vista_5308_Desktop.png)
First, Look at the start menu. Note they got rid of start and put in the windows logo. Seems just like mac. They have the apple logo in there menu.
Second, the search box in the top right hand cornor of the windows that is open this is the only version of windows that has this and is also in mac os x way before windows vista.
I have also seens a dashboard like think as you see at the bottom of the screen below I couldn't find a screen but it is just like it except it will be at the top not the bottom so it will be oposite from mac. Menu bottom and dashboard top.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4b/MacOSX10.4.png/800px-MacOSX10.4.png)
These are really bad screens because they were taken from a video. here is the link to the video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uKIpoG_VSOU&search=windows%20vista (http://youtube.com/watch?v=uKIpoG_VSOU&search=windows%20vista)
and here are the pics I found.
(http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/1204/windowsstealsmac7db.png)
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A pixel by pixel analysis I think will find that the shading that MS uses for Vista windows is identical to the shading that Apple uses for metal apps.
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If you ask me, it's not a huge rip-off of Mac OS X.
First, Look at the start menu. Note they got rid of start and put in the windows logo. Seems just like mac.
It also reminds me of KDE and Gnome, although the approach they took is some-what unique, as the button extends larger than everything else on the bar.
Also, those screenshots from the video seem to be from a fake video of Vista using something like WindowBlinds. I'm thinking this as the search bar is absent from the start menu, explorer looks different, and i've never seen that trayish thing on any screenshots of Vista i've seen. The start menu button looks different than it should too, even with Aero disabled.
If they want to prove it's Vista, perhaps they should show the fancy new Task Scheduler (http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/vista_5308_144.jpg) in another video.
I would just like to remind people here as well that Microsoft Windows had built-in ZIP compression (ME/XP) before it made it into Mac OS X, and supported built-in file encryption via XP (Pro Ed.) before it as well. I know I might be making some fanboys angry mentioning this sort of thing, but I don't care. I've had nasty experiences with Apple trolls (I didn't say every Apple user is a troll, to any trolls that may be reading this). Someone makes a claim that Apple brought widgets to the desktop, and I bother to mention they were on Windows already via third-party software (e.g. StarDock), and it's like i've started some sort of holy war with them. Just tired of the "Apple innovates before everyone else" attitude of certian individuals. Apologies for the semi off-topic rant.
I will admit i've noticed that Windows has some features Mac OS X had before it, but would also like to mention Linux has beat Windows to implementing features as well. Yes, that's obvious, I know. I bring it up though, because it supports my original comment, that Vista isn't just a big rip-off of Mac OS X. Microsoft doesn't get their ideas from a single source.
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Yeah it's obvious that the last two screen shots are XP.
What's new though? Microsoft have been ripping off other companies for YEARS. They aren't innovators. The last innovation, TRUE innovation, in all honesty was the BASIC programming language. Look at it closely, hell even 95 was a rip off of OS/2. They sit around in their 900 pound gorrilla suit all the time not giving a shit. MONKEY SEE MONKEY DO!!! Hell if they gave a shit they would've offered better backwards compatibility for DOS programs in NT, putting atleast the slightest bit of effort into it during the 15 years of NT development. So it's no surprise that DirectX10 will not offer backwards compatibility for DX9 or lower (http://news.softpedia.com/news/DirectX-10-and-so-it-ends-7762.shtml) instead Microsoft will enable support for DX 9 or lower games through a software layer (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25902) and all they have to say is that it might run a little bit slower. They said "Most (DOS) games run well on Windows XP, but some games that were created specifically for a 16-bit operating system may not run well or at all on Windows XP" (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/games/expert/durham_og.mspx) wait wait wait... THEY'RE ALL 16 BIT OR LOWER YOU TWATS. Ever try to run a DOS game on XP? Yeah. Anyone interested in CIV4 with no sound or a game of FEAR where you can't see any of your enemies?! YAY!
They drop you and drop compatibility just so they might implement things other OSs seem to be able to implement without losing barely any compatibility. HURRAH :macos::tux::bsd:POSIX and FUCK:fu: MICROSOFT!
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I still don't understand all this 'vista copied off mac' stuff.
The only thing I've seen is the lighting/highlighting.
OMG They copied how lighting looks in the real world off really shiny surfaces shock horror.
MS have to make Vista look more advanced so they have to add more curves and shiny stuff. I wouldn't think there are many ways you can do that and look nice/clean.
In this day and age there are so many ideas coming out all the time that the ideas come out before the technology is available. So everything is a copy. No matter what MS did there would be a windowsblinds theme that had similarities with the vista theme.
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They have copied the metallic look, the effects, that search thingy, etc.
How Microsoft designs seems completely random. They must have hired some people from Theme-XP.org.
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I still don't understand all this 'vista copied off mac' stuff.
The only thing I've seen is the lighting/highlighting.
OMG They copied how lighting looks in the real world off really shiny surfaces shock horror.
MS have to make Vista look more advanced so they have to add more curves and shiny stuff. I wouldn't think there are many ways you can do that and look nice/clean.
In this day and age there are so many ideas coming out all the time that the ideas come out before the technology is available. So everything is a copy. No matter what MS did there would be a windowsblinds theme that had similarities with the vista theme.
It removes it's head from it's ass... NOW!
Look dude we're BARELY talking about gloss effects and gifs or shiny bullshit. We're talking about general design ideas and how Windows has NEVER innovated. WIDGETS?!? on the desktop?!? An application bar zooming in and out? a search bar on the top left of the fle manager fro christs sake. Ok buddy just go back to PCmagonline NOW...
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THEY'RE ALL 16 BIT OR LOWER YOU TWATS. Ever try to run a DOS game on XP?
Firstly you can't run anything lower than 16-bit code on an x86 platform (i.e 8-bit stuff) without an emulator.
Secondly, not all DOS software is 16-bit, games released after 1993 or so were mostly 32-bit like DOOM Duke Nukem 3D and Quake, they used a DOS extender which was essentially an add-on to the allow DOS to run 32-bit protected mode code.
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It removes it's head from it's ass... NOW!
Look dude we're BARELY talking about gloss effects and gifs or shiny bullshit. We're talking about general design ideas and how Windows has NEVER innovated. WIDGETS?!? on the desktop?!? An application bar zooming in and out? a search bar on the top left of the fle manager fro christs sake. Ok buddy just go back to PCmagonline NOW...
Don't be a dick.
Pathos had a difference of opinion. You had several counterpoints which you could have said without being a jerk.
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What I don't understand is why people buy into flashy looking desktop effects ... I mean come on, what's the point ? Is anyone (besides you for the first hour of running the thing) gonna say whoah man ... your operating system is awesome ... ohhhh look everything's shiny and neat effects and wow ! Oh look the BSOD ... oh, man, I'm sorry for ya, but hey it's no biggie, just restart, and then you're back to your giant shiny turd OS that can't do shit but special visual effects making you think there's something really behind it all (besides a pile of shit)
Why not instead focus on productivity, stability, logical layout, ease of use ... NO ... people want their special effects and nothing more ... go to the fucking movies !!!
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I still don't understand all this 'vista copied off mac' stuff.
Microsoft has always been copying off Apple. Have you ever seen the origanal windows before 95. 95 was just a stolen look of macintosh. Taking the taskbar and calling it the startmenu putting it at the bottom of the screen then switching it from all the icons from the left to the right.
And this can be proven for the fact billy used to work at mac.
windows whole excistance as said before is a lie. microsoft just picked and stole from other companys mainly apple but... Microsoft dos bill gate never made it. He bought it of another company.
Oh look the BSOD ... oh, man, I'm sorry for ya,
Lol your so right. but for saying the only thing I do with windows now is game I really dont care was it looks like I turn it on open a game and other then opening the game I never see the os looks.
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My biggest problem is that Microsoft refuses to recognize any value in open source, they refuse to take off the gorilla suit and in the end it will hurt them.
They repeatedly freely steal others concepts without giving back, they PATENT everything... they go as far as to patent things they stole. They wait and until the competition they stole from has either died off or is crippled and are willing to forget about the stolen innovation and then M$ patents it.
Sorry Aloone I got ahead of myself but I STILL can't play 32bit DOS games in XP or 2000 even on a FAT32 system they run like SHIT...
PS I am a jerk... my real name is Arsehol Jerk McJerkin:D
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Thats why we are in www.microsuck.com (http://www.microsuck.com) :)
I would agree with Apple always being a step ahead of MS in innovation. But I bet a lot of design choices were because MS looked at the options they thought were feasible and realised Apple had already implemented the best one. MS don't have the imagination to look out side the square.
But I see huge similarities between some of the OSS window managers and existing commercial OS's every day. No complains about that because they realise its just the best way to do things. KDE follows windows pretty faithfully with the KDE menu and toolbars (admittably they do a better job).
I will shut now until I've actually tried the latest mac (unlikely :( ) and vista (unlikely ...).
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Firstly you can't run anything lower than 16-bit code on an x86 platform (i.e 8-bit stuff) without an emulator.
Secondly, not all DOS software is 16-bit, games released after 1993 or so were mostly 32-bit like DOOM Duke Nukem 3D and Quake, they used a DOS extender which was essentially an add-on to the allow DOS to run 32-bit protected mode code.
The 8086, 80286, and the 80386 and friends were all X86 platforms.
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You know that dumb little skiing game that came with windows 3.11? I downloaded it when I had winXP. I hadn't seen the recompiled 32bit version at the time, so i downloaded the 16 bit version. CPU usage was 100% during use
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Yeah it's obvious that the last two screen shots are XP.
What's new though? Microsoft have been ripping off other companies for YEARS. They aren't innovators. The last innovation, TRUE innovation, in all honesty was the BASIC programming language. Look at it closely, hell even 95 was a rip off of OS/2....
Innovation != Invention
You are confusing the two.
....And Microsoft jointly developed the first version of OS/2 with IBM. You'll have to excuse Microsoft for plagiarizing themselves.
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...but I STILL can't play 32bit DOS games in XP or 2000 even on a FAT32 system they run like SHIT...
32bit DOS games!
lol!
PS I am a jerk... my real name is Arsehol Jerk McJerkin
My guess was Igor McIgnoramussen, but I guess that fits too.:thumbup:
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Please don't post twice. Edit your post.
The 8086, 80286, and the 80386 and friends were all X86 platforms.
wow the 80286. I still have one it runs at the alsome speed of 3mhz!!!! yeh that is alsome man it kicks ass. if you have time to watch it boot... *snore* takes forever to get passed the bios check.
But I see huge similarities between some of the OSS window managers and existing commercial OS's every day. No complains about that because they realise its just the best way to do things. KDE follows windows pretty faithfully with the KDE menu and toolbars (admittably they do a better job).
Yeh but no one cares when the os is free it is when microshit steals others ideas then copyrights them. I hope it comes back to hit them. One day mac will make something and then copyright it before microshit does and then microshit will steal it and get owned in court.
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You can't copyright an idea.
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What are you talking about ... of course you can copyright an idea (if you mean copyright not copywrite). That's what the bastards at my college keep driving into my head ... always cite your sources ... copying someone elses ideas is plagarism (I've heard that an innumerable amount of times)
P.S. It takes forever for this damn thread to load even with 0.33 MB/sec down (DSL) ... I wonder what it's like on 56K ... it must be hell
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No, you can't. You can patent an idea. And I meant to write "copyright", not "copyrite". "Copyrite" isn't even a word. :D
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What are you talking about ... of course you can copyright an idea (if you mean copyright not copywrite). That's what the bastards at my college keep driving into my head ... always cite your sources ... copying someone elses ideas is plagarism (I've heard that an innumerable amount of times)
P.S. It takes forever for this damn thread to load even with 0.33 MB/sec down (DSL) ... I wonder what it's like on 56K ... it must be hell
I have 5MB/s cable and this tread loads instantly, wasnt that bad on dial up either
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You cannot copyright an idea. You copyright an expression of that idea.
Copyright violation doesn't really have much to do with plagarism. If you copy someones work and distribute it without permission, that's copyright violation. If you take a chunk of someones work (e.g., a quote) and put it in your paper, and cite it, it is considered fair use and you do not violate copyright. I assume there are some other reasonable cases where you don't have to really cite the author because it's common knowledge where it came from (like if I said "I'll buy that for a dollar." you would know it came from RoboCop.)
Plagarism is where you put someones words or ideas down and do not give them credit. The point of plagarism is taking credit. If you put a quote down, word for word, and do not attribute it, then you have plagarized it. You have also done copyright violation in this case, but that is a side effect of stealing credit. Common knowlege statements do not need to be cited (if everyone knows gold is yellow, and Jane says it in a paper, you can say it too and not have to cite her).
You can plagarize ideas. If someone comes up with a novel idea or insight, and you parrot it as your own without attributing it, you are stealing credit for that person's idea. Plagarism. Again, I think there are some things that are so well known that you don't have to attribute them. When I talk here about Free Software, I don't have to cite Stallman. You guys know he came up with the idea.
Citing is good for other reasons. When you write a paper, you are building an ironclad case. Every citation is a fact supporting your case. When you cite, you give the reader the ability to backtrack through your argument, and give yourself credability.
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My guess was Igor McIgnoramussen, but I guess that fits too.:thumbup:
Igor McIgnoramussen? If you're going to insult me try something atleast half-assed.
I read your blog Toad and I think you qualify for that position more so than anyone else here.:D Perhaps making up your mind about something would make it somewhat intelligible
And yes they did make DOS 32bit games on top of an extender, I thought we already went through this...
Read before you post.
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You cannot copyright an idea. You copyright an expression of that idea.
Copyright violation doesn't really have much to do with plagarism. If you copy someones work and distribute it without permission, that's copyright violation... blah blah blah... Every citation is a fact supporting your case. When you cite, you give the reader the ability to backtrack through your argument, and give yourself credability.
True enough, now if anyone wants a real explanation go here (http://www.gnu.org) and order a copy of "Free Software, Free Society", buy the shirt while you're at it.
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I think the 32bit DOS game crack was meaning "there's a guy who still runs 32-bit DOS games?"
There were lots of good games in 32bit DOS. Back then they didn't have monster computers with insane 3d acceleration and 3d sound hardware and CPUs which are essentially supercomputers.
So they had to, you know, concentrate on making a fun game instead.
I swear, Tomb Raider I was the best of the series in terms of sheer fun.
The Crusader No Remorse/Regret games were great.
The only problem with DOS games was they were a pain to configure.
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So they had to, you know, concentrate on making a fun game instead.
I would agree with this. But only if your talking about the 2d games. some of the earlier 3d game I hated doom wolfsten marathon (i could never figure out how to exit the game).
Doom-ok i guess but you know kinda oldish
Wolfstein- Yeh got throw the first 10 levels and I just got bored
Marathon- Probably the best because it has mouse support yeh yeh. But with no jump and stuff it can only rot.
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I swear, Tomb Raider I was the best of the series in terms of sheer fun.
It was even better with the "special" patch ;)
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It was even better with the "special" patch ;)
I am gonna take a stab at
Nude patch?
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Since it's not too legal I call it "special"
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Someone makes a claim that Apple brought widgets to the desktop, and I bother to mention they were on Windows already via third-party software (e.g. StarDock), and it's like i've started some sort of holy war with them. Just tired of the "Apple innovates before everyone else" attitude of certian individuals. Apologies for the semi off-topic rant.
I seem to be the only one in the world to notice this, so I'll share the knowledge.
StarDock wasn't the first thing with widgets either. In fact, guess who had the essential idea first? Apple! Haha! Let's go back to System 1, 1984. You had the "desk accessories." These were small programs that ran on top of the current app (unlike anything else in System 1, which only allowed one real app at a time), and when you had one running and then opened another, they appeared *and disappeared* together. Clicking the close button on them closed one, but doing "Quit" closed them all.
I don't know about you, but this is really close to Dashboard, but with some differences due to the tech of the day.
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It's true that Apple innovated some things, but they crush some products that could've developed into a innovative OS, such as GEM. So far the only company that has escaped Apple's fears of being trampled by a better idea. That company was Microsoft back when they had some innovation from their work with IBM.
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It's true that Apple innovated some things, but they crush some products that could've developed into a innovative OS, such as GEM. So far the only company that has escaped Apple's fears of being trampled by a better idea. That company was Microsoft back when they had some innovation from their work with IBM.
True that. I don't know how the courts let them win that ridiculous lawsuit against Digital Research.
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Well I love old DOS games, a quick trip to the underdogs (http://www.the-underdogs.org/) website can pretty much sum up why.
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well some ppl complain about how a veriety of stuff out there for windows and only 1 company to buy macintosh.
You do know if there wasn't a copyright issue way back when microsoft got started IBM would be the only company to sell microsoft product.
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GEM wasn't even an OS, just a shell.
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Sorry Aloone I got ahead of myself but I STILL can't play 32bit DOS games in XP or 2000 even on a FAT32 system they run like SHIT...
Some will run but I know what you mean, Windows XP 64-bit edition won't run any 16-bit software at all and yes this includes 32-bit DOS games as they had 16-bit stubs at the beginning to load the DOS extender.
To get round this problem you can, boot into DOS mode if you're using 9x, create a separate partition and run FreeDOS if your on 2k/XP or try an emulator like DOSBox (which is slow) or VMWare, DOSEmu is also good for Linux.
The 8086, 80286, and the 80386 and friends were all X86 platforms.
I know but the first two were 16-bit not 8-bit, they couldn't execute 8-bit code without an emulatior.
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I would agree with this. But only if your talking about the 2d games. some of the earlier 3d game I hated doom wolfsten marathon (i could never figure out how to exit the game).
Doom-ok i guess but you know kinda oldish
Wolfstein- Yeh got throw the first 10 levels and I just got bored
Marathon- Probably the best because it has mouse support yeh yeh. But with no jump and stuff it can only rot.
What?!
No-one can say they hate Doom. It's a classic!
how old are you?? :-p
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Waitwaitwait... Marathon? NO JUMP?!?!?
*loads up Basilisk to check*
Yes it did. Given, it wasn't exactly STELLAR, but you could jump short platforms.
It's better than nothing.
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What?!
No-one can say they hate Doom. It's a classic!
how old are you?? :-p
I'm 15 and i found marathon much better then doom.
1. Mouse support when doom was release I do beleave x86's didn't have mice. even if they did you couldn't use the mouse.
2. More colors. Doom was a old 16bit game sad colors.
3. No macintosh. Macintosh is the better os and doom wasn't for it :(
Waitwaitwait... Marathon? NO JUMP?!?!?
*loads up Basilisk to check*
Yes it did. Given, it wasn't exactly STELLAR, but you could jump short platforms.
It's better than nothing.
Sorry, it has been a while seens I have played it. You should try it on a real Macintosh rather then basklisk. It will run much better. You need a classic os like mac os 9 or 8. You can get one of ebay for about 100 or less dollars.
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I just recently played the Doom 1 demo on my comp, mouse worked perfectly.
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Sorry, it has been a while seens I have played it. You should try it on a real Macintosh rather then basklisk. It will run much better. You need a classic os like mac os 9 or 8. You can get one of ebay for about 100 or less dollars.
You think I'm running Linux because of a lack of willingness to run Classic. That's rich, even if it is partly correct. The whole reason why I started using Windows? Because I got sick of system-bombs. Given, they were in 8.1 on a ROAD APPLE, but it was enough to put me off of gaming on Mac. The whole reason why I got into Linux? One too many memory dumps for no reason better than being up for a day. The whole reason why I'm using Basilisk for this now? I miss the old 680x0 games. I know how much Classic systems cost, btw - I've been in this game since the LC, having had prior experiences back to the II Plus. Ultimately, the whole reason why I am where I am - in regards to Basilisk, at least - is that I'd rather have a playable framerate, error-free, than a stellar framerate with constant problems. Too bad OS X doesn't run those titles worth a damn. :(
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I'm 15 and i found marathon much better then doom.
1. Mouse support when doom was release I do beleave x86's didn't have mice. even if they did you couldn't use the mouse.
2. More colors. Doom was a old 16bit game sad colors.
3. No macintosh. Macintosh is the better os and doom wasn't for it :(
Oh for...
Look, x86 computers have had mice since the 1980's. Doom came out in the early 90's.
16-bits? WTF? DOOM was a 32 bit, protected mode game. If you were talking about 16-bit color, you are way off in the other direction.
Doom is available for the Macintosh.
You could use the mouse, but DOOM wasn't rigged to use the mouse in "freelook" mode, which is what all FPS since Quake use.
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I'm 15 and i found marathon much better then doom.
I've never heard of marathon so I can't compare.
1. Mouse support when doom was release I do beleave x86's didn't have mice. even if they did you couldn't use the mouse.
It helps if you load the DOS mouse driver.
2. More colors. Doom was a old 16bit game sad colors.
Don't know about marathon but Doom was a 32-bit protected mode game and it had 8-bit 320x200 VGA/MCGA graphics like most games at that time. Later on DOS games started using mode X, a technique that tweaked the maximum resolution of a VGA compatable card in 8-bit mode from 320x200 up to 360x480 and it made multiple pages possible (even Windows 9x used mode X 320x400 to display its startup screen), 400x600 was also possible but you needed a SVGA monitor so it wasn't so common, this was all quite impressive back in the day. Then came VESA support shortly before the demise of DOS to Windows however VESA is still used by Windows XP and Linux when a video driver is unavailable.
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Marathon better than Doom? Wow. I always considered the Marathon series piss-poor. The only reason I ever launch it is to show people "See, Bungie made Mac games before MS bought them!"
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http://digg.com/software/Microsoft_admits_Vista_borrows_heavily_from_OS_X...%28sort_of%29
arg can't argue with the devil himself....
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http://digg.com/software/Microsoft_admits_Vista_borrows_heavily_from_OS_X...%28sort_of%29 (http://digg.com/software/Microsoft_admits_Vista_borrows_heavily_from_OS_X...%28sort_of%29)
arg can't argue with the devil himself....
So there's a panther folder on OSX too isn't there ? Damn ... if it's true then you certainly can't argue.
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Interesting
Sources>Panther. If that isnt photoshoped then it looks like Vista is using parts from panther. Can someone verify this>
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it could have been a better world if ms and the other companies just
stuck to command-line os es and
mouse and shit only IN the games and programs :)
you can still have multi task os ...
but just command line style :D
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This maybe apples big break. If microsoft release vista with all this stuff even the "Panther" folder then apple can sew and sew hard for copyright infragments. Because you shouldn't have to copy right everything you make the Mac OS X is copyrighted it's self saying that the os is copyrighted and everything in it. If microsoft release a replace calling it "it's own" then apple has everyright to sew. And if they do apple may become a bigger industry who wants to buy stuff from thefs
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This maybe apples big break. If microsoft release vista with all this stuff even the "Panther" folder then apple can sew and sew hard for copyright infragments. Because you shouldn't have to copy right everything you make the Mac OS X is copyrighted it's self saying that the os is copyrighted and everything in it. If microsoft release a replace calling it "it's own" then apple has everyright to sew. And if they do apple may become a bigger industry who wants to buy stuff from thefs
I suppose Apple has a bunch of kintters too?
Please check your spelling.
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... you shouldn't have to copy right everything ... apple has everyright to sew ...
Well if apple wants to sue ... they can ... but the two important questions are:
1) Will they sue M$ ? ... when in the past they haven't even had the courage to speak out against them ... and do everything in fear of the Almighty Gates (call apple the good Gates' fearing folk)
2) Will they win if they try ? ... after all how good of a lawyer do you need to get ? O.J. got away with murder ... can Gates get away with copyright infringement ... hell yeah :D
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Um. Does anyone know what's in the Panther folder?
Maybe they took some artwork or something. Maybe it's licensed under a friendly license or MS bought a license to it. Or maybe it's got nothing to do with Apple at all....
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Well if apple wants to sue ... they can ... but the two important questions are:
1) Will they sue M$ ? ... when in the past they haven't even had the courage to speak out against them ... and do everything in fear of the Almighty Gates (call apple the good Gates' fearing folk)
2) Will they win if they try ? ... after all how good of a lawyer do you need to get ? O.J. got away with murder ... can Gates get away with copyright infringement ... hell yeah
He shouldn't it is all based on the judge and the jury. To make it fair they should have a jury of some windows users some mac users then a linux user since the jury is odd number. If you have a jury of all windows users you know who is going to win.
Should Apple sue if they find as many things similar as they do they I guess they should unless bill trys to pay them off of something.
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I don't know about the US but in the UK this sort of case isn't likely to be in front of a jury, but magistrates who are probably most likely to be Windows users. I wouldn't go round segregating Windows Mac and Linux users as lots of people use all three, I suppose you could subsitute the word "users" for zealots though.
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I don't know about the US but in the UK this sort of case isn't likely to be in front of a jury, but magistrates who are probably most likely to be Windows users. I wouldn't go round segregating Windows Mac and Linux users as lots of people use all three, I suppose you could subsitute the word "users" for zealots though.
Or else they just happen to have a preference.
I'm sure it'd be all legal in a case like this. I doubt there'd be any "ah sure they make a nice operating system" stuff going on. But I dunno...
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Not everyone has a preference, and yes their job is to look at the evidence put before them and decided whether they're guilty or not and if so what kind of punishment they deserve.
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i got windows vista beta 1 running on my pentium 3 and i can't get the menu bar that you see in the bottom 2 pictures. Once i can get it to work I will take a better screen of it.
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Congrats you are the only person insane enough to run vista on a p3
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Good gravy... Is that worse than running Win98 on a 486/66 with 16 MB of RAM (MS official minimum system requirements)?
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Or XP on a 233 64MB machine?
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Or XP on a 233 64MB machine?
Done it, expect with 128MB ram.
But that meets the min requirements on the box, Vistas min requirements is like a 2.4 Pentium 4 or equiv or something like that.
I did see a comp with A 233Mhz pentium and 60MB ram running XP, but it wasnt mine
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I tried to run XP on my old 233 (could have been 133, not sure) mhz machine before I had this machine/discovered GNU/Linux.
Wouldn't install.
Think it was the CD ROM drive, too slow maybe.
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I've used a machine with 128MB of RAM and XP briefly at a computer auction and it wasn't that slow. Most MS Office programs ran at an acceptable speed but I imagine it would've slowed down if I had several programs running or if I installed some anti-virus software.
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Congrats you are the only person insane enough to run vista on a p3
I have plans to try to run it on a pentium 2 or a amd k6-2 475mhz I will take screens of it.
The Pentium 3 runs at 900mhz.
And is that a challange to run windows 98 on a 486? I would if I had a 486 motherboard I only have 2x 486 cpus.
:P I try to get the most out of old tech :P
windows xp lets see let me find my box...
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lol, I tried to put the windows vista cd in the 200mhz p-pro and it just ignored it. It wouldn't even startup the install thing.
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Oh no, I'm sure you can put 98 on the 486, it will just be a boat anchor. I put 98 on a pentium 1 (200 MHz) computer with 128 mb ram. Frustratingly slow without 98 Lite.
I think vista will require the i686 instruction set. No pentium pro, no pentium I.
Plus, I'm willing to guess that the
Vista CD doesn't come with a boot floppy, so you can't put it on any computer that doesnt' support boot from CD.
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lol, I tried to put the windows vista cd in the 200mhz p-pro and it just ignored it. It wouldn't even startup the install thing.
:eek: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY?!?!
The only old computer I've kept is an old 686 300 with like 80 megs of RAM and only because it's a Cyrix... that way when somebody comes over I can point and say look a Cyrix! And then they go either "Whoa" or "What in the fuck is that?!" Anyway the only OS's that I am crazy enough to run on it is 98 and Vector Linux.
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hey pentium pros make good affordable server. Why 1 no fans 2 it is the dual cpu version of the pentium 1. 3 I really don't know I just like counting to 3.
They don't have fans (other then the psu) but they get really hot. REALLY HOT. but they still don't crash or anything stupid like that. I have set it up to read cd first I put a dvd rom in it and tried some windows 98 linux cds to make sure it could read on boot. I will try again but who knows. I got suse linux 10 running on it, it was rather slow but ok.
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Pentiums cannot burn as they say, because they automatically tune down the clock speed as temperature reaches a critical limit ... it's not recommended you run them hot, but I suppose you could without too many problems.
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this is a hp/compaq digital somthing. Don't remember I didn't build it, hp built it a long time ago so the overheating thing is there fault.
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Pentiums cannot burn as they say, because they automatically tune down the clock speed as temperature reaches a critical limit ... it's not recommended you run them hot, but I suppose you could without too many problems.
Yeah, um tex, thats the Pentium 4s. Everything under P4 cant throttle. I did here of a person who put a blow torch to a pentium 1 while the computer was running and it was almost 2 minutes before the comp crashes
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http://www.tomshardware.com/2001/09/17/hot_spot/index.html
A 2001 article. Watch the Athlons go up in flames and take out their motherboard, while the Pentium III and IV survive without a heat sink.
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http://www.tomshardware.com/2001/09/17/hot_spot/index.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/2001/09/17/hot_spot/index.html)
A 2001 article. Watch the Athlons go up in flames and take out their motherboard, while the Pentium III and IV survive without a heat sink.
Cool :cool:
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I'm glad I went with Intel chips now...
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P3s didnt throttle, the "Froze". And you shouldn't be glad. P4s are the hotest running thing around now. Actually the a Athlon XPs had the stuff to shut down properly in an event like that, but lazy mobo manufactures didn't put the nesacey stuff on the boards to make it work.
Current P4s can't throttle like that P4 and keep running without a heatsink.
Athlon 64s run much cooler then P4s right now, and they also shutdown if they overheat to.
Dunno why people compare stuff thats 5 years old to current stuff
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Athlon 64s run much cooler then P4s right now, and they also shutdown if they overheat to.
Not quite:
http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm (http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm)
Max case temp: (Higher is better)
Sempron 3400+ (2.0GHz - 256KB). . . . . . . 69
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that data isn't up to date or accurate.
Even if it is correct it shows that the top of the line AMD runs 5degrees c cooler then the P4 top of the line. And AMD top of the line out proforms intels p4 top of the line. So what you have just showed us is that AMD runs cooler and out proforms intel thxs for agreeing.
Intels run at 170 degrees F. (intel p4 em64t 3.0ghz) That is HOT. if you needed to matenence your computer you would have to wait for it to cool off before you touch anything near the cpu or you will burn yourself.
The test that shows amds going up in flame I agree with to a certain extent.
First, it didn't show that the pentium 3 will never work correctly again. Once the pentium 3 overheats it is gone forever you will be able to use it again but after 30min of use it will pause and contiune this because something inside it is messed up.
The pentium 4 I dont' know what will happen to it i have never overheated one. Since it is a intel i would say it may have the same effects as the pentium 3 if you leave it on too long with it overheating it will just die.
Amds when they overheat they die end of story but you really don't need to put too much care (or at least not as much as you do with intel) into keeping them cool because amds don't push the clock limit like intel. They look for other ways to make there cpus fast without clock speed.
But as it was said most newer motherboards when the computer overheats it will disconnect the power and turn off the computer before the cpu reaches it's critical heating point.
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@ Tex, in fact you are wrong. EVERY athlon 64 supports thermal shutdown. Tomshardware did another test with an FX 51, it shutdown. They comapared in to a 3Ghz or something P4, It didnt throttle, it shutdown just like the FX-51. The Athlons and Athlon XPs had rather poor thermal shutdown specs and stuff but not the Atlhon 64s. Also the power isnt cut the the CPU in Athlon 64s, it shutdowns the entire system. If you look, Current P4s do the same
@Zone, you are wrong to. I took the heatsink of a 800Mhz P3, and let it sit even after it froze. I Came back a few minutes later, Turned the system off, put the sink pack on, powered the rig up and too the heatsink off again and let it freeze, onces again i powered it down and put the sink back on. Now its happily running Rosetta @ Home on unbuntu.
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Not quite. A fellow had his X2 4800+ run for quite a while with the watercooling turned off. The 'auto shutdown' feature was disabled by default in the BIOS. Only thing that saved the A64 was the large copper cooling block.
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I didn't say it couldn't be disabled...I said every Athlon 64 and Mobo supports it
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that data isn't up to date or accurate.
That claim requires counter-evidence to even BEGIN to hold water, so where's your source?
Even if it is correct it shows that the top of the line AMD runs 5degrees c cooler then the P4 top of the line.
Apparently, you've never seen an inverse-comparison before. That chart displays the cut-off temperature for the processors, where a higher temperature indicates a higher heat-tolerance. It's not a chart of typical operating temperatures, so your logic is flawed.
And AMD top of the line out proforms intels p4 top of the line. So what you have just showed us is that AMD runs cooler and out proforms intel thxs for agreeing.
Actually, he just showed that AMD can't sustain higher operating temperatures for any length of time, and I fail to see where performance entered that little comparison. Nice try, though. ;)
Intels run at 170 degrees F. (intel p4 em64t 3.0ghz)
Again, what is your source for this information? If it's the previous chart, 70.8 C is 159.44 F, not 170 F.
That is HOT. if you needed to matenence your computer you would have to wait for it to cool off before you touch anything near the cpu or you will burn yourself.
This is why you don't put your fingers under the heatsink at ANY point in time, unless replacing the CPU. There are established procedures for that eventuality. Also, if your CPU is conducting heat back down your motherboard, you have bigger problems than hot components.
The test that shows amds going up in flame I agree with to a certain extent.
It's called disabling the heat monitor from the BIOS. Not just AMDs will go up in flames if the operator pulls that crap.
First, it didn't show that the pentium 3 will never work correctly again. Once the pentium 3 overheats it is gone forever you will be able to use it again but after 30min of use it will pause and contiune this because something inside it is messed up.
Actually, this is true of any processor. If you run it overheated for any extended period of time, pins tend to melt. Hell, you're lucky if it doesn't arc and burn a good half of the inlays. Both of these are exceptions to cooling measures.
The pentium 4 I dont' know what will happen to it i have never overheated one. Since it is a intel i would say it may have the same effects as the pentium 3 if you leave it on too long with it overheating it will just die.
Try it and see. If you're willing to pay shipping, I may have a P4-capable motherboard I can send you for experimental purposes, but you'll need a processor and possibly RAM for it.
Amds when they overheat they die end of story but you really don't need to put too much care (or at least not as much as you do with intel) into keeping them cool because amds don't push the clock limit like intel. They look for other ways to make there cpus fast without clock speed.
Which is why AMD doesn't have the market cornered on overclocking, right? Nobody EVER overclocks the Athlons in their gaming rigs, RIGHT? The point is that people are going to do stupid things with their purchases, and when they do, they'd rather have a processor made to handle extremities than one that is not.
But as it was said most newer motherboards when the computer overheats it will disconnect the power and turn off the computer before the cpu reaches it's critical heating point.
Which it will, if nobody disables the BIOS setting for this measure. It's not going to save data, your PC will just spontaneously die. Alphas are not immune to this effect, let alone AMDs.
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How the heck did this devolve into a AMD vs Intel thermal performance thread?
I've been using AMD's since the k6 and AMD allways ran hotter than Intel, until the A64 came out.
My athlonXP 2100 ran at around 60C and peaked at around 70C. This was normal. My athlonXP 2800 was pretty much the same as my 2100. It ran hot. My Current A64x2 4400 runs at 46C and peaks at around 52C. A huge difference from the XP line.
The AthlonXP line of processors did not support any kind of thermal shutdown or throttling on the chip. As a result, motherboard makers implimented it into their motherbords in order to save Athlons from themselves when fans burnt out. Bascially the motherboard would power the entire system down when the chip got too hot. It was very crude, but effective.
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This thread piqued my interest in the thermal features of the Athlon64, so I downloaded a little utility from AMD. I'm impressed. MY processor sits at 1GHZ and 1.1volts while idle and instanty throttles up to 2.2GHZ when used.
Check out these before and after screenies.
Sitting Idle (1ghz):
http://www.toadlife.net/stuff/forum_pics/idle.PNG (http://www.toadlife.net/stuff/forum_pics/idle.PNG)
Running Racer (2ghz):
http://www.toadlife.net/stuff/forum_pics/inuse.PNG (http://www.toadlife.net/stuff/forum_pics/inuse.PNG)
Notice how the CPU fan automatically kicks up from 1000RPM to 2800RPM when the processor throttles up.
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nice !:)
ps : what are you playing there ?
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Looks like this one:
http://www.racer.nl/
Moderatly fun, played it a few times, then removed it.
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My Athlon XP 3200+ average temp is 30-36C, goes up to 40-48C when i do a lot of heavy processing stuff like compiling or running ut2k4
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Looks like this one:
http://www.racer.nl/ (http://www.racer.nl/)
Moderatly fun, played it a few times, then removed it.
Yep. And there is a version for Linux and Mac too. ;)
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This isn't worth arguing about since the processor temperature depends on the ambient temperature. If you want to do this scientifically you should be measuring the temperature rise, this will depend on the thermal conductivity of die to heat pad, the heatsink, ventilation and power dissipation of the chip.
There are so many different factors you can't compare between makes of processor other than to say that the safest one will have the lowest power consumption, the highest die operating temperature and thermal conductivity between the pad and die.
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The AthlonXP line of processors did not support any kind of thermal shutdown or throttling on the chip. As a result, motherboard makers implimented it into their motherbords in order to save Athlons from themselves when fans burnt out. Bascially the motherboard would power the entire system down when the chip got too hot. It was very crude, but effective.
Thanks ... that's what I meant :D
My athlonXP 2100 ran at around 60C and peaked at around 70C. This was normal. My athlonXP 2800 was pretty much the same as my 2100. It ran hot. My Current A64x2 4400 runs at 46C and peaks at around 52C. A huge difference from the XP line.
My 2.8 Ghz P4 runs around 57 C idle - 75 C under heavy stress (compiling large program)
@ Orethrius that's a mighty fine response to Xeniczone's rant-like reply ... thanks for that, didn't have the patience to do it myself :D
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57C? I have the same model, and I'd be scared if it was idling that high. I don't think it reaches 50 at idle. Stock fan.
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This is on a laptop though ... max is actually 75 C not 70 ... assuming the sensor is reporting accurate data
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Toadlife: For what it's worth, I was going for the logical fallacies in Xeniczone's post, not the end conclusion. The end matters not where the means are at fault. If he wanted to state that AMDs run hotter, by all means he's welcome to do so, but not by jeopardising an otherwise valid piece of data.
Tex: Thanks, it's good to see that I'm not the only one noticing when someone posts fallacious logic for an otherwise sound conclusion.
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I see they've stolen the interface to make it look like OS X but what I would love to know is does the operating system itself now sport an operating system built on open source or does it still have an underlying shitty ntoskrnl?
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I take back that last comment, i've been reading about Windows Vista from google.. an yeap same ntoskrnl, just a few tweak's to it. Apparently it wont run on systems without a pretty substantial graphics card. So unless you bought your PC with it on, it's pointless downloading the beta of WinFX RC.
It look's like a pile of something unpleasent, kind of exactly like what I cleaned off my carpet this morning after waking up to find I'd locked the cat in the front room...
IBM has cancelled their contract with Microsoft as of October this year. That means that IBM will not use Windows Vista for their desktops. Beginning from July, IBM employees will begin using IBM Workplace on their new, Red Hat-based platform. Not all at once - some will keep using their present Windows versions for a while. But none will upgrade to Vista. Good for them!
That's just typical of Microsoft, they see apples sale's doing really well and presume that by making Windows look more like a piece of eye candy that there sales will improve, completely ignoring the fact that the underlying OS is the reason people go with Apple in the first place.
Way to go Microsoft.. What Mindless boffin thought this up?
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Good news indeed ... IBM not buying into Vista ... no one else should either.
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IBM has cancelled their contract with Microsoft as of October this year. That means that IBM will not use Windows Vista for their desktops. Beginning from July, IBM employees will begin using IBM Workplace on their new, Red Hat-based platform. Not all at once - some will keep using their present Windows versions for a while. But none will upgrade to Vista. Good for them!
REALLY?! Awesome, it's about goddamn time, took em 18 years to wean off of the piece of shit and get back at Microshit. They sure were talkin enough smack on their websites about GNU/Linux being better... hope this is a trend, corporate Microsoft software wars survivors first, than everyone else.:thumbup:
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Found it. (http://www.neoseeker.com/news/story/5436/)
That would be something if IBM were the stone that topple Microsoft, that broke the dam. The irony is so THICK you can choke on it. They made them and it looks like they'll be breaking them... :D
I smell games, BIG BUDGET ones for *NIX baby!!! OH RAH!!
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I see they've stolen the interface to make it look like OS X but what I would love to know is does the operating system itself now sport an operating system built on open source or does it still have an underlying shitty ntoskrnl?
I fail to see how making things transparent and more high-res make it a copy of OSX. What were they supposed to do, make it look uglier? For that, they could have copied KDE or Gnome.
And about the kernel, the kernel is one of the major strengths of NT. The crap piled onto it are the cause all of the issues.
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I fail to see how making things transparent and more high-res make it a copy of OSX. What were they supposed to do, make it look uglier? For that, they could have copied KDE or Gnome.
GTK+ 1 was pretty ugly. But thankfully I didn't have to wait until 2006 for GTK+ 2 (or Xgl and all that crack).
EDIT: and FFS XP's luna fucking thing is the ugliest since I dunno when. Why are people given that in 2006?
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I agree GNOME and KDE are quite ugly (even with different themes) ... my recommendation: fluxbox
I've recently decided to try out nearly every window manager available for Linux, including: GNOME, KDE, Fluxbox, Blackbox, Afterstep, IceWM, Openbox, WM, XFCE
I say fluxbox is the best ... the ugliest being GNOME, KDE, XFCE, IceWM
Now .... there are usually downsides to having transparency effects, like increased resource usage ... it doesn't seem to be the case with fluxbox ... can't say the same thing for Vi$ta. And Vi$ta is far less customizable, stable, useful. I switched away from GNOME mostly cuz nautilus kept crashing and GNOME in general kept not responding (keyboard not responding), which never happened on KDE BTW and neither on fluxbox.
Now whether Vi$ta is a rip-off of OS X ... that's almost guarranteed, but of course there are ingnorant people out there who refuse to take into account any evidence whatsoever in making a case for this ...
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Fluxbox is NOT pretty... it's utilitarian. The whole point of it is to get away from the looks.
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Fluxbox is NOT pretty... it's utilitarian. The whole point of it is to get away from the looks.
Actually I would agree with TeXMeX. Fluxbox is the nicest looking desktop environment I've seen for unix. What fluxbox isn't, is very functional. Functionality is what make a desktop/windows manager slow.
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GTK+ 1 was pretty ugly. But thankfully I didn't have to wait until 2006 for GTK+ 2 (or Xgl and all that crack).
EDIT: and FFS XP's luna fucking thing is the ugliest since I dunno when. Why are people given that in 2006?
luna is getting pretty old. That's why I use Royale (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Enhancements/Themes/Royale-Theme-for-WinXP.shtml) in XP now. It's not earth shattering, but I think it's nicer than Luna.
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Royale is the theme for XP Media Center. And it's much better than Luna, that's for sure.
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Well fluxbox without anything is definitely not funcional ... but customise the menus a bit, add ROX-Filer, add a bit more software and it's just as funcional as any other window manager ... and the speed stays up.
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luna is getting pretty old. That's why I use Royale (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Enhancements/Themes/Royale-Theme-for-WinXP.shtml) in XP now. It's not earth shattering, but I think it's nicer than Luna.
I like it but it's got a few bugs so I think I'll go back to the plain boring classic Windows style for now.
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Themes are a waste of system resouces. I turn as much eye candy off as I can, and revert to Windows Classic.
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Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder anyways. I don't think most of these mentioned are ugly (except for the default Windows XP theme). I prefer XFCE since it starts up faster than Gnome and KDE. Damn fast I would say with just the default things loaded. It also uses less memory than Gnome and less than KDE for sure. From reading this thread I installed fluxbox and am on it right now. I had been thinking it was something dinky WM with nothing on it, like some others I've tried (might as well go pure command line). I'm going back to XFCE. I'm not liking it for these reasons: it starts up slower, I think even a bit slower than Gnome and doesn't even have a splash screen, you're just there guessing if you can't hear the hard disk working. The menus are barren. I guess you have to configure everything yourself, and I'm guessing unless you script something up yourself, there is no dynamic menu loading like in the others? Another thing, the workspaces behave strangely. Like if you open gkrellm and have it as a panel, only one workspace will show it but windows will maximize to respect it in all workspaces. Big icons get cut sideways in the notification area. I'm not liking the look of it either. Just some dull blue with an empty gray background. I wouldn't call it ugly, but to me, a spifly themed GUI that remains fast and starts up fast and is easily configured right from it's GUI is more of a thing of beauty. But like I said, it's in the eyes of the beholder.
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Well ... it does require a lot of configuration ... to generate the menus run:
fluxbox-generate_menu --with-icons
I dunno about it loading slow ... it loads nearly instantly for me ... XFCE takes about twice as long as fluxbox to load on my machine. And I don't use more than 1 workspace so I never noticed the problem you mentioned (pretty much everything I use is tabbed so I don't need workspaces). It does have a splash screen ... if you check your ~/.fluxbox/startup script, just un-comment the option (remove the # sign before it). As for the look ... that's extremely customizable:
http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/962/ (http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/962/)
Also, you should use feh (http://linuxbrit.co.uk/feh/) instead of fbsetbg for the background, otherwise transparency settings will have no effect. If you want a window to retain it's dimentions and position, right-click on the top of the window (where the window title is) and check Remember > Dimentions, Position.
And of course XFCE is really fast too (especially compared to GNOME and KDE) ... it's not that bad, but I dunno, it just looks ugly ... yeah eye of the beholder kind of thing.
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The reason why it's starting up slow for me might be because gtk support is included? I made up a menu file, and it's not bad, but there's still the thing of the strange behavior. That's the deal breaker. Like I said with the thing in gkrellm. Beep when I minimize, the equalizer and playlist stay on the screen. While using my tablet with gimp, it just decides to stop drawing after a short time. I'm sure there's more if I look. And as far as firefox and most of the other apps on there, it doesn't run faster. And based on the memory markers, it doesn't use up much less resources than xfce.