Stop Microsoft
Miscellaneous => Applications => Topic started by: theangelofdeath69 on 20 January 2002, 19:20
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Hey, poeple, why are there so many people in the fuckmicrosoft.com forums DEFENDING microshit? seriously.
Besides, half this crap's wrong anyway.
And no, I do not think IIS beats Apache, yes Sendmail beats "SMTP Service" and I DO NOT think Microsoft Passport is a good thing.
Especially including this new MyLostWallet, oops, MyWallet feature, where your credit card details get given to any site which DOESN'T request them (at least, thats how it'll end up working ;)
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Hey, poeple, why are there so many people in the fuckmicrosoft.com forums DEFENDING microshit? seriously.
Perhaps because they wish to enlighten this benighted little hate site on the fact that Windows is the best desktop operating system.
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Originally posted by Xenoran:
Perhaps because they wish to enlighten this benighted little hate site on the fact that Windows is the best desktop operating system.
This is gonna be good. Alright zipperhead, enlighten us.
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Originally posted by Xenoran:
Perhaps because they wish to enlighten this benighted little hate site on the fact that Windows is the best desktop operating system.
name 5 things that linux doesn't that windows does, besides :
1. opening a (closed format) word/excel or other MS file
2. Being treated like a total idiot.
3. crashing my pc every 5 minutes
Then here are 5 (just a small random selection :D ) things I can do with linux which I can't do with windows.
1. Be productive (no bloated, buggy, crash prone IDE to worry about)
2. Have translucent menu's (my KDE looks faaaar better then winxp)
3. Should a program crash and lock up the windowing system I can just slide over to my other pc, kill the offending application and go on with my work.
4. The only BSOD I'll ever see is on the screensaver which comes with some distributions.
5. Being able to actually thouroughly debug programs I write because of the plethora of debug tools available for and built in the linux operating system, plus the fact that most libraries we use at work are either open source or has the source available, which enables me to find bugs faster by being able to tell what exactly happens when I do a function call in a library (in oposite of microsoft where you have to find out the hard way)
And the best part is, when you get a linux distribution, you don't have to shell out 300$ for a office suite, you don't have to shell out 99$ for a cd burning program, you don't have to shell out 10000's $ on MS licenses (if you're a corporate user that is), you don't have to shell out 1000's $ for some propriety
web server. Also your OS doesn't have built in programs which you can't renove and have basically no control over what they send out (IE anyone?). And your computer isn't part of the biggest breeding pool for viruses known to man anymore.
Need I go on?
[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: BadKarma ]
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i just assumed xenoran was being sarcastic!
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i was kinda hoping he/she isnt being sarcastic and replies. Ive been trying to find someone else to call a fucktard other then zombie5892340yy483925.
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Teehee . . . fucktard . . . I'm going to have to remember that one! :D
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It's no fun unless Xenoran replies!
HEY XENORAN! WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT, YOU FUCKTARD!?!
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Originally posted by lost:
i was kinda hoping he/she isnt being sarcastic and replies. Ive been trying to find someone else to call a fucktard other then zombie5892340yy483925.
The only reason you would sit around and call me names is because you can't think of anything productive to say about any debunking I may do. Now run along little boy, I think your mommy is calling you. ;)
[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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ooOOOOOOOooo!
Handbags at dawn! (http://tongue.gif)
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Originally posted by Zombie9920:
The only reason you would sit around and call me names is because you can't think of anything productive to say about any dicksucking I may do. Now run along little boy, I think my mommy is calling you. ;)
Hey fucktard, why are you speaking? Who gave you a voice fucking fan boy? Dont you have comics to go read or a sister to molest? In the future try not to get all butt hurt fucking gotard. ;)
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Why should I respond? This entire forum is clearly 100% closed minded. With the replies I've seen in this post and the various other topics around the forum, an intelligent debate here is clearly futile.
All I can say is that by the level of immaturity you all have expressed on this forum, you are all shaming the operating systems / platforms your attempting to support, it's quite sad really...
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Well .... I for one am still waiting for those 5 points..... somehow I have the feeling though that you won't reply not for your aformentioned reasons but for the simple fact that you cannot come up with a single one, and not because there are none, but because of the simple fact you will probably have never actually used linux in your life which makes it a bit hard to have an intelligent debate right?
Still waiting for that enlightenment you promised .....
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...but because of the simple fact you will probably have never actually used linux in your life which makes it a bit hard to have an intelligent debate right?
Still waiting for that enlightenment you promised .....
Hmm... very interesting, and the RedHat 7.2 Server under my desk would be...? Also, I never "promised" anything, I simply stated why there may be so many pro-Microsoft users on the forum.
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As much as I dislike participating in this, I will outline 5 things that Windows (2000/XP will be versions in question) can do that Linux can't.
1) Host a Microsoft Exchange Server, an invaluble reasource to any corporation who relies heavily on the Microsoft Office Suite.
2) Utilize advanced 3D accelerators at their full potential through DirectX, for the most part Linux is limited to OpenGL optimizations and is unable to use the built in DirectX optimizations.
3) Rely completely on the GUI without any command line dependancies. The X GUIs such as KDE and Gnome have come a long way in making Liux more user friendly, but high level vital functions still require the use of the command line (the terminal if X is running). Without any command line knowledge, Linux can still be used through KDE but it will basically be limited to being a word processor / web box.
4) Use a driver certification system, through the use of WHQL driver certification, drivers can be guarenteed to be stable in the OS they are certified for. This is very valuble for less skilled users, with that system in place Windows can be set to reject any non-WHQL drivers and prevent a less skilled user from installing faulty drivers.
5) Support the majority of hardware and software out on the market. This is a major plus for consumers, through all of the support Windows has throughout the hardware and software industries the users will be open to a much broader range of products that will work with their system.
And while I've completed my list, I would like to point out a few things in your list.
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1. opening a (closed format) word/excel or other MS file
Windows itself does not open those files, the appropriate Microsoft Office application does. Through the use of Windows Emulation in an alternative OS, that suite can be installed on the system and those files can be viewed in the appropriate application.
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2. Being treated like a total idiot.
The defaults in the OS are made to suit the majority of Windows users who are new to PCs and only have the OS because it came with their system, with the proper knowledge, those defaults can be changed drastically to suit more advanced users.
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3. crashing my pc every 5 minutes
That point has absolutely no grounds, the only way a PC could crash every 5 minutes is if there was a malicious time-based script installed which was set to cause a fatal error approximately 5 minutes after explorer was loaded. Stability wise, I've found no problems with 2000 or XP, my secondary PC running WinXP Professional has been running for over two months and I haven't seen any drop in performance.
Now lets move on the the 5 points on Linux...
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1. Be productive (no bloated, buggy, crash prone IDE to worry about)
Productivity all depends on what the user is used to and their level of skill and for those who feel IDE is crash prone, there is nothing stopping them from installing a SCSI controller.
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2. Have translucent menu's (my KDE looks faaaar better then winxp)
Again, aesthetics depend solely on the user. Personally, I didn't find WinXP's default skin or classic skin to be very attractive so I dug up a remake of the Whistler skin and run that on all of my XP machines.
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3. Should a program crash and lock up the windowing system I can just slide over to my other pc, kill the offending application and go on with my work.
An application crash can rarely take down 2000 or XP, the Windows Task manager can eliminate any down applications 9 out of 10 times without causing any instability in the OS.
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4. The only BSOD I'll ever see is on the screensaver which comes with some distributions.
It's true that you'll never see a BSOD in any other OS, but that doesn't mean fatal errors don't happen in them, the BSOD just happens to be the most infamous and though be it annoying, I find the NT BSOD to be rather usefull since it points out the file that caused the error in the first place.
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5. Being able to actually thouroughly debug programs I write because of the plethora of debug tools available for and built in the linux operating system, plus the fact that most libraries we use at work are either open source or has the source available, which enables me to find bugs faster by being able to tell what exactly happens when I do a function call in a library (in oposite of microsoft where you have to find out the hard way)
That one was correct... Linux is definately THE platform for programming.
Now, in closing I think I should clear a few things up on where my opinions stand. First, when I defend Windows, I am only defending the NT variations of it, Win9x was without a doubt a horrible OS, almost the the point of being unusable. Second, I do not hate Linux, it simply doesn't fit my needs for anything other than my HTTP/FTP/IRC server, I feel it's an excellent OS for most servers and for programming, it just leaves a lot to be desired in the feild of general desktop usability. And finally, Apple... Apple is a company I strongly dispise, they depend heavily on hype and aesthetics, neither of which matter in terms of real performance and as a company, they engage in some very childish mudslinging.
Well, that's my two cents...
[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: Xenoran ]
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1) Host a Microsoft Exchange Server, an invaluble reasource to any corporation who relies heavily on the Microsoft Office Suite.
Why any company would want to rely on a bloated piece of software is beyond me. I have had to use MS Word and I must say I've had more bad experiences with it then good. I much rather use lyx so I can concentrate on content rather then layout for word processing. Excel isn't as bad but there are cheaper alternatives which offer the same functionality (like kspread, an excellent spreadsheet, and a *lot* cheaper too). Powerpoint is plain out laughable in comparison to magicpoint, which is by far the best presentation program I have ever seen. With magicpoint you (kind of) program a presentation, though a co-worker of mine who can't program (the best he can manage is write a hello world program in php ;) ) made 3 extremely high quality presentations at the rate of 1/day, he had used powerpoint before and was absolutely ecstatic about magicpoint (plus the fact that you can embed any X application in your presentation is *invaluable* for a software company, instead of just showing screenshots during a presentation we can actually run the program and turn the presentation in a demonstration (http://smile.gif) ). Now why did I want to use MS office again? I forgot .....
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2) Utilize advanced 3D accelerators at their full potential through DirectX, for the most part Linux is limited to OpenGL optimizations and is unable to use the built in DirectX optimizations.
lol, this point actually made me laugh. Then can you please explain why the Chameleon Geforce 3 demo (demonstrating the pixel shader) crashed on the DirectX version with the latest NVidia drivers but ran just fine on the OpenGL drivers? And why reverting to an earlier driver version fixed the DirectX version but not without certain problems (some pixels being shaded wrong, ran very slow).
And (since we are talking about linux as a desktop OS) why the hell then quake 3 and return to castle wolfenstein (and I think also unreal tournament but I can't verify this because I don't have that game) run a lot faster on linux then they do on windows? And why the hell id software (*the* creater of first person shooter genre and the best damn 3d engine maker ever (the quake 3 engine is really excellent, RTCW on a geforce 3 looks awesome)) then still chooses not to use directx?
I personally have not (nor will I ever probably) used directx, I have examined the API though and it looked very awkward to me. I'll prefer SDL/OpenGL over directx anytime.
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3) Rely completely on the GUI without any command line dependancies. The X GUIs such as KDE and Gnome have come a long way in making Liux more user friendly, but high level vital functions still require the use of the command line (the terminal if X is running). Without any command line knowledge, Linux can still be used through KDE but it will basically be limited to being a word processor / web box.
Since we're still talking about a desktop OS we are also discussing productivity. Now let's do some hypothetical stuff here:
We have one average computer user using linux and one average computer user using windows. Both users just recently purchased their first pc and bought with it a beginners book about their OS. The windows user was taught a bit about pointing and clicking their way through their OS, the linux user was taught a bit about pointing and clicking through their OS *and* were taught a bit about using the command line. Now both users have worked a while and they have a lot of redundant files of the same file type they want to trash. First the windows user goes at it, he needs to open explorer (at least 2 clicks, probably more), traverse to the my documents folder (some more clicks), select every single file and not forget to hold the ctrl key as to avoid having to start again (trust me, it happens a lot, which leads up to a whole lot of clicks) all this clicking took our (not so very fast clicking) user about 5 minutes of his work time. Now the linux user goes at it, he has (very limited) knowledge of the commandline option, he has some lyx files in his home directory he wants to remove so he opens up a konsole (1 click) and types in : cd ~/oldfiles [enter] rm * [enter] . Now our user is a slow typer and clicker so this takes him around 30 seconds. Now that's a hypothetical time saving of 4and a half minutes, now you can say well, what is four and a half minutes? Imagine this scenrario in a corporate environment with a 1000 computers, how much time would this single fact alone save the company on yearbasis? (and time is money afterall)
And as for not being able to setup your system from a GUI, you have never actually used SuSE linux right? They have GUI tools for any possible thing you would want to set up (they also have a auto update feature (and a lot safer then the ms one at that too))
Plus the average joe doesn't even want to do use the advanced functions of an OS anyway, he just wants to type e-mails to his sister and browser pr0n sites.
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4) Use a driver certification system, through the use of WHQL driver certification, drivers can be guarenteed to be stable in the OS they are certified for. This is very valuble for less skilled users, with that system in place Windows can be set to reject any non-WHQL drivers and prevent a less skilled user from installing faulty drivers.
Oh dear, I think you have fallen a bit for MS's way of customer binding, you might have noticed by know that on average people are pretty gullible (heck, I think 50+% of the computer users don't even know a PC can work without windows) so they are pretty much inclined to flat out believe what their computer tells them too (Homer Simpson yelling "where's the any key?" is inspired by actual tech support calls, trust me) so Microsoft yelling things about "certified drivers" would mean what? It's safe to install this driver for this computer? So they have tested out that particual piece of hardware with all other pieces of hardware and all other drivers in existance for windows? Because certified or not, *ALL* software has bugs. Then MS argues, the people should buy only microsoft certified hardware, so they run off to the nearest best buy or dixons or what they call it where you live, and shells out a lot of money on new hardware and just throw the old hardware away, but the people then realize that their computer still crashes oncee in a while because *ALL* software has bugs (I can't stress this enough ;) ). Can you honestly say that this is a good thing? Do you truly believe that this is a good bussiness model?
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5) Support the majority of hardware and software out on the market. This is a major plus for consumers, through all of the support Windows has throughout the hardware and software industries the users will be open to a much broader range of products that will work with their system.
Like I said .... have you *ever* installed SuSE linux? It even recognised my trident integrated cyberblade on my old comcrap pc, I haven't had a single piece of hardware it didn't recognise immediatly. If I had (I put a geforce 2 in it (http://smile.gif) to install win 2k from scratch I had to go through the agony of finding a driver for the cyberblade (or have that funky 640x480 16 colours look) which was extra hard because trident filed a lawsuit against VIA (or vice versa, I forgot, it was a real mess anyway) and on the VIA site it said go to S3 and on the S3 site it said go to VIA. So that invalidates another of your points.
And while I've completed my list, I would like to point out a few things in your list.
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That one was correct... Linux is definately THE platform for programming.
[/QUOTE
I couldnt' imagine *ever* programming under windows again, if I had to write win32 software I'd either opt for using a platform independant toolkit or using the wine API.
Now, in closing I think I should clear a few things up on where my opinions stand. First, when I defend Windows, I am only defending the NT variations of it, Win9x was without a doubt a horrible OS, almost the the point of being unusable. Second, I do not hate Linux, it simply doesn't fit my needs for anything other than my HTTP/FTP/IRC server, I feel it's an excellent OS for most servers and for programming, it just leaves a lot to be desired in the feild of general desktop usability. And finally, Apple... Apple is a company I strongly dispise, they depend heavily on hype and aesthetics, neither of which matter in terms of real performance and as a company, they engage in some very childish mudslinging.
Well, that's my two cents...
To each his own I say, however microsoft will have a hard time selling me anything, ever .... (and this is not because of a biased or clouded vision, this is due to experience and frustration)
My 2 euro cents
(WARNING: this post will probably contain lot's of spelling and grammatical errors, please look past them, thank you (http://smile.gif) )
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I think the bottom line is that people will use what they like as a matter of personal preference and novices will use whatever came preinstalled...
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Originally posted by Xenoran:
and novices will use whatever came preinstalled...
That fact alone is astonishing, it's like going to the supermarket and buying a bread to find there already is peanutbutter on it, and you could either take the bread with the peanutbutter and scrape the peanutbutter off and put roast beef on it, or take the ingredients of the bread and bake it yourself and put on wathever you want (because the peanutbutter bread still tastes like peanuts cause it was "designed" for it)
And it doesn't all boil down to personal preferencee (it plays a (rather limited) part though) it all boils down to marketing and aggresive bussiness tactics, two things linux will never have. Think how many people would choose MS products in a world where windows could run *nix programs and *nix could run windows programs, no single OS came preinstalled, and both OS'es would receive equal marketing.....
as for the 5 points (keeping it short this time (http://smile.gif) )
1. I meant IDE as in Integrated Development Environment not as in Integrated Drive Electronics (I'm a programmer, not a hardware specialist (http://smile.gif) )
2. You can "skin" linux too (and too a much greater extent since you can choose a different windowmanager (or write your own) if you want).
And those translucent menus really are sweet :D
3. I found windows XP to be *extremely* unreliable with (somewhat dated) windows games, railroad tycoon 2 would only start one out of six times normally, the other 4 out of 6 times the palette was all garbled and one out of 6 times the screen was garbled and the palette would start fading and would totally lock up the OS. I now run it without problems under linux with wine.
4. What you could consider a BSOD under linux (a core dump) would lead me to the exact function in the exact library (I usually compile everything with debug information :D ) the exception has occured and (should I want to) do something about it.
Ok ... enough ranting .... *rings bell* you may now continue with the mudslinging gentlemen :D
[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: BadKarma ]
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Originally posted by Xenoran:
novices will use whatever came preinstalled...
And the monopoly continues....
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The real issue is clearly ignorance, most novice users aren't even aware of what the operating systems is, I know a lot of them who used to think that "Windows is the PC"... And with that being the issue, I think bundling the systems with XP home is the best thing to do, could you imagine what those people would be like on Linux? However, there should be an option to purchase the system without an OS for more advanced users who know what an OS is and how to install one.
My only complaint with MS is that they idiot proofed XP Professional to some extent, which was uncalled for considering that only the more advanced users install it and that almost all PCs come with home edition. Home Edition should've been idiot proofed to the highest extent...
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Originally posted by Xenoran:
The real issue is clearly ignorance, most novice users aren't even aware of what the operating systems is, I know a lot of them who used to think that "Windows is the PC"... And with that being the issue, I think bundling the systems with XP home is the best thing to do, could you imagine what those people would be like on Linux?
Yeah, they would be a lot more secure, they wouldn't need virus software and they would get a better deal on their PC
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However, there should be an option to purchase the system without an OS for more advanced users who know what an OS is and how to install one.
No, they should sell the PC without any software period and give the user the choice of what software they want to be shipped with the machine. If they can install their OS the first time, they can probably "reinstall it" which will likely only happen with the people who select the MS operating system. Or at least offer a few choices, along with a no operating system installed choice. This will not happen though because Microsoft has a leash on those hardware vendors.
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My only complaint with MS is that they idiot proofed XP Professional to some extent, which was uncalled for considering that only the more advanced users install it and that almost all PCs come with home edition. Home Edition should've been idiot proofed to the highest extent...
And why would Microsoft have to "idiot proof" their system? I'll give you three guesses.
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first of all, i didn't mean to really call you a fucktard, but what a good word!!! Right, on to the meaningful adult discussion:
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Originally posted by Xenoran
Why should I respond? This entire forum is clearly 100% closed minded. With the replies I've seen in this post and the various other topics around the forum, an intelligent debate here is clearly futile.
Bullshit! you just can't handle the heat! This forum is not closed minded, just because its participants do not happen to want to join the LickMicrosoft'sButt club.
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Originally posted by Xenoran
All I can say is that by the level of immaturity you all have expressed on this forum, you are all shaming the operating systems / platforms your attempting to support, it's quite sad really...
don't get too emotional now, what immaturity? sure we all sling insults at each other, but that's just the form of some of the debate. What counts is the substance. If you want lost to stop calling you a fucktard (which should be like water off a duck's back in a sane world), then i wouldn't continue to adopt this teacher/angry old man next door stance. Just a word of advice.
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Originally posted by the well meaning but possibly misguided Xenoran:
The real issue is clearly ignorance, most novice users aren't even aware of what the operating systems is, I know a lot of them who used to think that "Windows is the PC"... And with that being the issue, I think bundling the systems with XP home is the best thing to do, could you imagine what those people would be like on Linux? However, there should be an option to purchase the system without an OS for more advanced users who know what an OS is and how to install one.
I think you have a lot of well considered opinions, and i haven't had a lot of experience using the stuff you have used, so i have a limited knowledge base with which to comment, but i really hope you are being at least a little bit sarcastic. okay, a lot of people are not too sure of the inner workings of their computer and often don't want to know anyway, but why would packaging a heapload of uncoordinated proprietary bullshit with a nice new PC be GOOD for the user? If it was the norm to give "those people" the choice, when they bought the machine, there would be no confusion, not even amongst those "novice users" you so eloquently dismiss, because it would be NORMAL. It would be WHAT THEY EXPECTED. They could even choose to have SunOS, SUSELinux, Windows3.1, OS/2, whatever they wanted installed in the shop. They could pay extra and never have to install it themselves (unless it was windows, as it needs reinstalled periodically but that's another story). The important thing here is they would have the choice. They would be told their options and be able to choose. Do you really have a problem with that?
Let's see a scenario where no new PC gets sold with an OS, but business cards and pamphlets for each OS could be bundled with the PC if the OS distributor so desired. Right, so Windows leaflets will come with every computer. PCs in the US and Australia and Canada et c would come with Red Hat Leaflets, PCs in Asia would come with TurboLinux leaflets. Of course these Linux OSs are free, so they could actually ship a CD with the PCs containing the basic stuff for their install, maybe they could entice users to get the other 6 CDs or whatever if they liked the OS.
What i'm saying is, PEOPLE ONLY USE WINDOWS BECAUSE WINDOWS KNOWS HOW TO USE PEOPLE.
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Xenoran again...
My only complaint with MS is that they idiot proofed XP Professional to some extent, which was uncalled for considering that only the more advanced users install it and that almost all PCs come with home edition. Home Edition should've been idiot proofed to the highest extent...
Windows is Windows is Windows. Who cares if it's idiot proofed? it's not the idiots we need to worry about, they are only doing word processing and browsing the net, and maybe listening to MP3s. It should be Microsoft proofed. Got a problem with Windows? don't blame it on the idiots! Microsoft is always at the heart of the problem.
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Originally posted by BadKarma
And it doesn't all boil down to personal preferencee (it plays a (rather limited) part though) it all boils down to marketing and aggresive bussiness tactics, two things linux will never have.
I just quoted this because i agree totally. It's not a case of "whose software is better", it's all a propoghanda/PR battle just like the cold war Russia/America stuff. Promotion is politics.
I support anybody's right to run whatever they want on their computer including Windows, but that's exactly the point. Most people are told what they want before they've even had a chance to think about it.
Ball's in your court, Fucktard :D
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Let's see a scenario where no new PC gets sold with an OS, but business cards and pamphlets for each OS could be bundled with the PC if the OS distributor so desired. Right, so Windows leaflets will come with every computer. PCs in the US and Australia and Canada et c would come with Red Hat Leaflets, PCs in Asia would come with TurboLinux leaflets. Of course these Linux OSs are free, so they could actually ship a CD with the PCs containing the basic stuff for their install, maybe they could entice users to get the other 6 CDs or whatever if they liked the OS. What i'm saying is, PEOPLE ONLY USE WINDOWS BECAUSE WINDOWS KNOWS HOW TO USE PEOPLE.
That I would have to agree with, but the leaflets would need to be made by a 3rd party impartial source, if they were made by the software manufacturer, the issue of false advertising would come into the picture. Also, Windows does not "use people", people use it... and then proceed to crash it with AOL and every other unstable app known to man :( ...
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One thing Fucktard needs to realize is that there are multiple reasons why people hate Microsoft. The entire reason I started trying to install Linux (and evenually remove Windows completely from my system) was because of Windows lack of security and privacy. Having a more stable OS is just a pleasent side affect.
Microsoft has no respect for the customer. The customer in Bill Gate's eyes is just another tool to be used and manipulated for his own gain. And how does he do it? Through the software. Between hidden files and your own computer sending reports back on you and your habits (just to name a few things), you loose all sense of privacy when using Windows. And XP is the worst (until .NET comes out that is)!!! Don't believe me, Needle Dick? Just read this. (http://www.arachnoid.com/boycott/index.html) (I realize that a lot of people who visit this site don't live in the United States. But believe me, that doesn't make you or your information any less the safe).
-Gonusto
P.S. I realize I posted that link in another thread, but I believe that it has more meaning in this one. Plus, I want Fucktard to read it.
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Needle Dick? Fucktard? This is clearly futile... goodbye!
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Originally posted by Xenoran:
Needle Dick? Fucktard? This is clearly futile... goodbye!
And so he leaves without actually proving anything, and without actually defending his pov in a sensible manner just because someone calls him a fucktard .... lol .... fucktard isn't even a word ffs
Your user manual should state "lightly inflammable, please handle with care"
sticks and stones ....
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Oh, don't get your panties in a knot! Are you so insecure that you can't handle a bit of name calling? At least I wasn't bragging about how good your mom was last night (I've had better by the way). Want me to make it up to you? You obviously have some form of intelligence since you can type gramatically correct English. Does that make you feel any better, Shitface?
Yes, you have a right to your own opinion . . . but so do I. What do you expect when you come to a site called "fuckmicrosoft.com", a site devoted to Microsoft alternatives, and talk about how good Microsoft is? I hope you weren't expecting to find support and sympathy . . . 'cause if you were, then I'll have to retract my previous statement about you having some form of intellegince.
So why don't you just go back to your goats (or whatever else it is you like to fuck) and leave me to hate Microsoft in peace. Oh, and tell Billy boy "Hi," for me next time you go to suck his dick . . gutter slut.
-Gonusto
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Originally posted by Gonusto:
Microsoft has no respect for the customer. The customer in Bill Gate's eyes is just another tool to be used and manipulated for his own gain. And how does he do it? Through the software. Between hidden files and your own computer sending reports back on you and your habits (just to name a few things), you loose all sense of privacy when using Windows. And XP is the worst (until .NET comes out that is)!!! Don't believe me, Needle Dick? Just read this. (http://www.arachnoid.com/boycott/index.html) (I realize that a lot of people who visit this site don't live in the United States. But believe me, that doesn't make you or your information any less the safe).
WOW! Thanks for the link to that site! I guess I have to "come out of the closet" and show my "true colors" here - tinfoil! (As in, wearing a tin foil hat to prevent mindreading/brainwashing by the gov't/illuminati/whatever.)
So, call me conspiracy theorist... but I can't help but wonder if there's more to it than just Gate's gain... Why did the gov't back down so quickly on the breakup? (Other than the fact that the people now in charge think that anti-trust laws are just a sneaky way to keep good, decent hardworking multi-millionaire monopolists from taking ALL the money).
They had Microsoft on the ropes... could have gotten all kinds of concessions, yet, they didn't as for anything in return for backing down - that is, nothing that we know about. But suddenly we start hearing about Carnivore and "Magic Lantern," and the ironically named USA PATRIOT Act gets passed. You know, the one that allows the FBI and the CIA to "sneak and peek" on your computer without having to show even an unreasonable suspicion, let alone a reasonable one - all with a laughable degree of judicial oversight: Basically they go to a judge and sign this, and the judge is required to sign it on their "say so" that it concerns possible threats to national security. But, they aren't required to show the judge why they think there might be a possible threat to national security because... well, showing that information might be a threat to national security, doncha know.
Sure, Microsoft is collecting info on your surfing and stuff for their own database, but who's to say who ELSE is going to get that info?
What deals were made, hmmmmmm? Just askin'.
:eek:
Karen
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Not Registered, i wish you could get over your fear of naughty language.
I reckon that the leaflets could still be advertising, as this is the heart and soul of free enterprise, but forcing something on someone that they didn't ask for, that they are paying hundreds of bucks for is not on.
Plus, if windows can't even run simple programs (which it can't even you say so yrself), how is it worth all that money or even any money in the first place?
PS, nobody here is a fucktard in my opinion, it's just a funny word! can't we have a little bit of humour without people leaving in droves? it's not as if i'm starting an unjustified war against Afghanistan for example! ;)
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Calum, I thought you were smarter than that, guess not.
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I am smarter than that!
I just said i didn't start that war! i think war is a terrible situation! nobody here started it, and i think everybody here agrees that war and general meaningless death is very bad news indeed.
I wasn't trying to be insensitive or obnoxious, just pointing out that compared with some things in the world, saying "fucktard" in a bulletin board discussion is really not so abominable!
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Well I agree with you about the comment not being so bad considering the domain name of this web site. And I shouldn't respond to the other comment you made because it is off topic (ridding MS from the face of the earth). But I have to respond at the risk of this becoming a large ongoing off subject thread.
First of all, you are right, nobody likes war (well, most sane people do not like war) but sometimes it *is* necessary.
Second of all, nobody is at war with Afghanistan. Now Afghanistan was at war with itself for the last 10 years (and for much longer thoughout it's history).
Third, as you know some chicken shit, gutless bastards killed some of my innocent friends and relatives for no reason other than getting themselves a ticket to paradise (or so they believe). And this is not the first time they have done this. And any sane person would have to believe it isn't the last time they will do this. Mind you, these chicken shit, gutless bastards are not Afghan people, they are a collection of hate mongers who just happened to be practicing their tactics in a country that was at war with itself, taking advantage of chaos that existed.
Now, if someone kept coming out from behind a rock and punching you in the nose repeatedly are you supposed to just continue to take it?
Thankfully, most of the free world got together to try and put a stop to it (or severely hinder it). And as a side benefit I believe there is great hope for Afghanistan. They hopefully will now have a responsible government containing some very smart people who will treat their people a little better. Now women will actually be able to have a life. This is one of many examples of future hope.
They will now get support from many countries to help them rebuild their devastation (devastation that previously existed). Hopefully they will be able to educate themselves so they can turn their country into a much better place for their people to live.
In a perfect world, there is peace, it's not a perfect world. But for it to become one, sometimes war is necessary. In this particular case the "war" is focused toward taking out a few rotten eggs, not on a country as a whole.
But discussing this is like discussing religion. Usually there are two points of view and no matter how much you discuss it, one point of view will not see the other point of view. Now, if you have a better idea of what should have been done, I certainly would like to hear it, but these forums are not really the place to do it.
[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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All I've got to say is that its all relative . . .
-Gonusto
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Relatiive to what? Or a relative to whom?
I have to say I agree 100% with Void.
It probably has something to do with our respecive age group, I was a rebel and leftist idealist when 18 (even though I lived under a commie system at that time).
Is there a chance that the situation is/will be misused by certain elements in power circles. You'betcha, absolutely, absolute power corrupts absolutely, it all depends on every single of us if we let them, and there is a clear parallel between the closed systems and open systems.
However, perhaps, there is a slight chance that the US administration would realize that the policies of the 20th century were rather inept and self-defeating and creating bigger problems in the end, no matter how appropriate they seemed at the time. Short term gain translates usually into long term kick in the butt. That is not to invoke blame games, everybody is wiser in the hindsight.
The hope is that if the the political/economical niveau in Afganistan gets nurtured, it may be a foundation stone of better world a showcase of sorts... that there is a better way, than a myopic premedieval ideology.
I'll end it here, the whole matter is rather on the high end of order of complexities, and this is not the forum.
[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: lu666s ]
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quote:
Originally posted by lu666s:
Relatiive to what? Or a relative to whom?
Is there a chance that the situation is/will be misused by certain elements in power circles. You'betcha, absolutely, absolute power corrupts absolutely, it all depends on every single of us if we let them, and there is a clear parallel between the closed systems and open systems.<snip>
I'll end it here, the whole matter is rather on the high end of order of complexities, and this is not the forum.
I agree that this isn't the place to discuss whether the action in Afghanistan is right or wrong, but, the point you made IS on topic, in a way. There will always be those people or groups of people who seek to expand their power at the expense of others. There will also always be people or groups of people who will act to harm others, and any civilized society *must* act to prevent - or at least contain the damage from -those acts. The problem (as we've seen with both Microsoft and the USA PATRIOT Act), is that the first group often uses the second group to get power that we otherwise would refuse to give them. To quote William Pitt:
quote:
Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
--William Pitt (1756-1806)
Whether we're talking governments or corporations, they will take as much power as they can convince us give them, and if we are not very careful, they will eventually have enough power that they no longer need our consent to take more. In the government's case, it was terrorism - yes, a terrible thing that needs to be addressed, but not (IMHO) at the expense of our fundamental right to the protections of the Constitution. In Microsoft's case, it was software piracy - again, something that is a crime, and should be prosecuted, and, where possible, prevented - but again, not at the expense of our fundamental right to privacy.
Karen
[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Karen ]
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Well, this isn't the place et c, even though we're all discussing it here anyway,
I agree with VoidMain completely too, I do reckon that the bigger a world power is, the lighter they have to tread and the more thought their leaders have to give to a situation, which is why i remain sceptical re: Afghanistan. If not for scepticism, people would lie down and accept anything, or continue to be happily punched in the nose, in fact.
So, as long as it can stay free of backhanders and political agendas, I'm extremely happy that the poor old Afghans finally get a chance to have a chance.
There is a lot of death and suffering in "foreign parts" and sometimes it just seems like us westerners perpetuate it rather than using our power to stop it. But this is off topic.
I just wanted to say, i am against the eye for an eye thing that always surfaces in these situations, and i am in favour of thinking compassionately with regard to the poor sods on both/any/all sides of a war or conflict, those sods probably did not have a choice whether they want to be in a war or not.
That's all, i knew we'd all agree, but we all express ourselves in different ways.
Well, i suppose we should get back to the name calling so as to keep this thread on topic!
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Gonutso-
I have been going through all of the posts in all of the different topics just to familiarize myself with the general theme of things (although fuckmicrosoft.com was a pretty good hint). I followed your link (regaurding the registering requirements of XP) to the boycott MS site and was completely shocked by what I read! MS B]REALLY[/B] does not give a rats ass about anything or anyone! I mean I didn't expect them to be the Salvation Army, but they are coming across like the Spanish Inquisition! I'm really not happy with their products (I'm currently shackled to Windows ME [Microsoft Excrement]), but am now considering another OS. Maybe I'll buy a Mac. I was pissed when I found out that there were hidden (secret) .dat files on my system and how your internet usage is tracked and stored, but this goes WAY beyond all of that. I'm holding back a bit because I'm new here so it may seem that that I'm not really all that upset, but believe me I amPISSED BIG TIME AT THESE SHITMAGGOTS!I'll be hanging around this forum for some time to come so that I can finally purge MS from my life!
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Gonutso-
I have been going through all of the posts in all of the different topics just to familiarize myself with the general theme of things (although fuckmicrosoft.com was a pretty good hint). I followed your link (regaurding the registering requirements of XP) to the boycott MS site and was completely shocked by what I read! MS B]REALLY[/B] does not give a rats ass about anything or anyone! I mean I didn't expect them to be the Salvation Army, but they are coming across like the Spanish Inquisition! I'm really not happy with their products (I'm currently shackled to Windows ME [Microsoft Excrement]), but am now considering another OS. Maybe I'll buy a Mac. I was pissed when I found out that there were hidden (secret) .dat files on my system and how your internet usage is tracked and stored, but this goes WAY beyond all of that. I'm holding back a bit because I'm new here so it may seem that that I'm not really all that upset, but believe me I amPISSED BIG TIME AT THESE SHITMAGGOTS!I'll be hanging around this forum for some time to come so that I can finally purge MS from my life!
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Very cute. I see that the administrator of this forum has the mind of a child since he likes to edit peoples' posts to say shit that was never said. I now realize why you all are die hard linux fans. It is because you are all little kids and you can't afford to buy an OS, so you have to download a free one.
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quote:
Originally posted by Xenoran:
Why should I respond? This entire forum is clearly 100% closed minded. With the replies I've seen in this post and the various other topics around the forum, an intelligent debate here is clearly futile.
All I can say is that by the level of immaturity you all have expressed on this forum, you are all shaming the operating systems / platforms your attempting to support, it's quite sad really...
That is so true man. These people act so fucking childish. There is absolutely no way anybody with a different view can reason with them. They think that if you like what they don't like, then you deserve to be flamed(Hence why it is so hard to actually debate with them). The apple loving webmaster is a true gem to the immature community. He likes to go around and edit peoples' posts because that is the only way he knows how to deal with people. True fact, most men who admire Apple computers for thier looks is gay.
[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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Test to see if new sig works.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Very cute. I see that the administrator of this forum has the mind of a child since he likes to edit peoples' posts to say shit that was never said. I now realize why you all are die hard linux fans. It is because you are all little kids and you can't afford to buy an OS, so you have to download a free one.
What are you talking about? are you just trying to start an argument?? Editing your posts do you mean?
just think about what you just said. How can little kids be using Linux? it sounds like it takes a bit of brain to me... surely a little kid would just copy a mate's copy of Windows?
And as for your comment about how difficult it is to debate here, the real reason is that you are full of shit and the people here are all bright enough to be able to point out why.
Now fuck off you needledicked fucktard! (http://tongue.gif)
I hope you're grown up enough not to be offended by that remark, but we'll see....
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This is what I'm talking about. In this very topic I posted this.
(http://zombie9920.homestead.com/files/original.jpg)
The Webmaster edited it to say this.
(http://zombie9920.homestead.com/files/edited.jpg)
I had to edit it back to the original as soon as I saw the crap. It is a very stupid thing for the admin to have done so I can only assume he has the mind of a child.
[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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Every one of you bastids probably have the mentality of the webmaster. You all would probably resort to editing peoples' posts if you had the power to do so. Well, I take that back, I think VoidMain wouldn't resort to that crap because he actually sounds like he is intelligent.
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hey! are you saying i'm thick?
what a load of horsewallop!
i wouldn't edit somebody's posts, and i think it's poor form for it to have happened to you! still, i'll stop short of engaging in a name calling fight with you, because i have a bit of respect for the other people who post here including you.
Just because i use some colourful and varied language sometimes, don't assume i'm a fucktard! (http://tongue.gif)
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Name calling is alright, editing peoples' posts to make them look bad is lame.
Ha, verbal flaming is actually quite fun sometimes. ;P
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Name calling is alright, editing peoples' posts to make them look bad is lame.
Ha, verbal flaming is actually quite fun sometimes. ;P
I agree that it is pretty lame, but funny. And besides, sticking up for MS is just as bad as what the post was changed to. I don't think that Webmaster is the *only* person who can edit the posts. If he has any moderators assigned, they would be able to edit it, and of course the person(s) that are hosting the site could surely modify anything. It's not a good feeling though, like when someone impersonated me and wrote a bunch of crap.
[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Zombie9920 -
I don't know about anybody else, but I visit this site because I'm frustrated. To be more specific, I'm frustrated with Microsoft . . . frustrated with thier operating system, frustrated with their business practices, frustrated with their total lack of ethics. And because I'm frustrated (as well as angry) with Microsoft, I don't come to a site named www.fuckmicrosoft.com (http://www.fuckmicrosoft.com) to hear people praise them! Consequently, anybody who does come here praising Microsoft poses a very convient target. Don't blame me for putting yourself in a position to get flamed.
Who are you trying to convince anyways? If you haven't been able to tell from the site name and its mission statement (not to mention the vast majority of the posts), this is a site against Microsoft. Thus its safe to assume that the majority of people who frequent this site are opposed to Microsoft as well. Now, considering the monopoly that Microsoft has, it is also safe to assume that almost everybody (who uses computers) has had some kind of interaction with some version of Windows. Conversely, because Microsoft has such a monopoly, it is also safe to assume that it is unlikely that most people have tried an operating system other than Windows. Therefore it is almost impossible for you to accurately state that the people at this forum are closed-minded, since (as we established earlier) almost everybody has used Windows to some extent, thus giving them the appropriate background with which to say "Windows blows!" If anybody is closed-minded, it is the die hard Windows fans, since as we (also) established, the majority of them have have probably not tried an alternate operating system, meaning that they lack the appropriate knowledge with which to say "Everything else sucks!"
And if you happen to be someone that has tried an alternate operating system and opted to return to Windows, then fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But don't forget so is everyone else. As we concluded earlier, the *majority* of people who frequent this site already have a grudge with Microsoft and that their opinions can hardly be considered uninformed. So why are you even bothering to try and change their minds? They obvioiusly already have them made up. Which returns us to my unanswered question: "Who are you trying to convince anyways?" I think you're trying to convince yourself that Windows is great, because believing otherwise would mean that you've made a terrible mistake. And we know how hard of a time most people have admitting their mistakes . . . but that's just my opinion.
So I'm proposing a solution. You stop advocating Microsoft and we'll stop calling you names. Easy as that. And if you still feel like contributing to this site, then why don't you stick to helping people who are having problems Windows (and what ever operating systems you may have a knowledge of)?
On a different note, while the editing of your post was a bit tasteless, it was extremely funny. (http://smile.gif) And like I said earlier, when you come to a site opposed to Microsoft and proceed to shower them with praise, you're just asking to get flamed (amongst other things). Even though I had nothing to do with it, my sincerest apologies for what happened.
-Gonusto
[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Gonusto ]
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yes, i think it's bad news that your post got edited, and i don't think it should happen to anyone.
Also, i do agree with everything in that last post, except i reckon you should be able to say what you like, or we'd all just be saying the same thing which *would* be a bit boring.
BUT i reckon your attitude is puerile and immature, Zombie47538957320, all you do when pissed off about something is come and shoot yr mouth off all over the place.
Try LISTENING to people and DISCUSSING things RATIONALLY.
You might get some benefit from this forum, instead of just abuse. I suspect your attitude is deliberately designed to engender abuse, so that you can believe in your own mind that we're all bastards here.
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I wasn't trying to say that Zombie9920 shouldn't be allowed to speak his opinions. I agree with you Calum, things would get very boring around here. I was simply suggesting he might not get flamed as much (since he has such a strong dislike of it) if he wasn't always talking about how good Microsoft was. Another solution would be for him to just be less sensitive. I was just trying to help the poor fellow out . . .
-Gonusto
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quote:
Originally posted by Xenoran:
Needle Dick? Fucktard? This is clearly futile... goodbye!
Someone seems butthurt, o must be that dick in your ass. Futile, i think so.
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Well, well.
It seems everyone's jumped on this wagon, huh. By the way, HOW THE HELL can anyone actually DEFEND Microsoft? Yes, I am qualified to say that, I use Windows (much though I hate it.)
No matter. I seem to have started a pretty good argument here!
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quote:
Rely completely on the GUI without any command line dependancies
NOT REGISTERED in referance to windows
Oh really? Try renewing dhcp leases and finding dhcp and wins servers as easily as is done with ipconfig. Try doing a tracert, ping, or pathping or even a finger for that matter on that GUI of yours. Try discovering all incoming connections, as well as ip, icmp, tcp and udp statistics with a GUI app better than dos netstat. Try using telnet. and I didn't even mention arp and nbtstat. And don't try to tell me that in the windows 9x systems you can get a GUI version of telnet and ipconfig. Anyone that is experianced enough to use telnet but not enough to use the command line is definitly an anomaly in the world of computers. The same goes for winipconfig, like anyone w/o basic knowledge of the command line would know what dns, dhcp, wins servers were, or even what ip addys are. MS made those programs for nobody.
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hey now, hey now!
don't be so harsh on poor old windows!
i have a dual boot setup with red hat and winME, and i have to say that my windows ME does at least provide a command line as well as a gui.
Of course it's totally true that there is NO information and there are NO help files for the command line, but hey.
Also several DOS programs that are run from said command line fail to initialise my sound card, even though the gui can use the card fine. Also some programs don't even run on that command line they have in winME.
plus there is the minor fact that you can't actually do ANYTHING of USE from the command line (like create a letter in a decent word processing format, or write a CD, or even play a CD, i think, though i haven't tried that.
Oh yes, there's also that minor fact that the command line interface ISN'T EVEN a real DOS prompt! it's a "virtual machine" which means it's a Microsoft coded DOS emulator! we'll that's a step forward i must say!
so compared with win98, which had a working, but impotent command line with no help or encouragement, we now get a dodgy cobbled together, possibly nonfunctional, but impotent command line with no help or encouragement.
whoop
dee
doo.
That said, i like the command line...
the linux one on my red hat system.
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quote:
The real issue is clearly ignorance, most novice users aren't even aware of what the operating systems is, I know a lot of them who used to think that "Windows is the PC"... And with that being the issue ...could you imagine what those people would be like on Linux? However, there should be an option to purchase the system without an OS for more advanced users who know what an OS is and how to install one.
I know I'm going to get reamed for this, but I think that he has a point. I'm not saying it's right or anything, but it's the way things are. People are not going to take time out to learn the specifics of computers. It's all about marketing, and the tactic that microsoft and most notorioussaly AOL (gasp) employ is ease of use. (I rolled on the floor for nearly 10 minutes when I saw the aol icon said "double click to use"). They want access to the internet, (most notably email and instant messaging) while still knowing the least about it that they possibly can. No one is going to take the time to learn the command line. Plus they have all those training cd's and books and courses. And they are all geared toward windows and M$ office. Easy will always win out on the novice user. That's why Mac and Windows are supreme in that domain. There will always be comp repair guys to bring the computer to to do simple tasks such as re-installing the dredaded OS. There is nothing we can do about it. The relm of computing has movied into the domain of idocy. And to say that the novices aren't allowed to use the computer is just not fai... well it is fair but they don't think so. After all, I'm sure at least one of the younger of you have been raised on windows systems, as I have. Future generations of programers and technitions will all be introduced that way, there is no escaping it. I'm trying to think of analogy, but I can't even come close to the one about the bread and penut butter is to the comp and os one. By the way, Don't let it be said that I like the way it is, or that I am defending microsoft. I wish just as any hacker does that the mouse and GUI were never invented. I'm just saying it like it is.
BTW Does anyone else get the feeling that they want to puke when they see an AOL comercial? Does anyone ever feel like Nick Burns, Your company's computer guy from Saturday Night Live? And a note on hardware: I can't buy a drive, nic, or any other kind of computer card w/o getting detailed instructions on how to exactly configure it. These companies assume you know nothing.
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WOW! Well aren't you Holier than thou. What the hell man?
I have said this once and I have said it a thousand times. How do you expect people to get in to the more complicated aspects of computing if they can't even use the machine to begin with.
I wasn't born a hacker, I was raised on Apple II's and Commodor 64's. Just because I only knew the standard file navigating command-line functions, and not the more detailed technocal bits, didn't religate me to the realm of idiot.
I know plenty of Linux and UNIX people who know the OS and aren't programmers. Does that make them idiots? Are they more inteligent because they can memorize a more archaic or complicated OS? Are they stupid because they only use the OS to run specific aplications and have no aspirations to deleve in to the programming or hardware aspects?
Your logic is as flawd as a mechanic claiming that no one who dosn't know how to repair an automobile should ever touch a screwdriver because they are to stupid to use it, and aren't aware of the power it truely wields.
Besides, no one should be able to dictate who and who shouldent use a computer. It's not your place.
I have been using Computers all my life. When I first stated I didn't know jack, today I can take apart my machine and tell you what every pice is and does. I know asembly, I can go in and out of the GUI and can do anything I want.
I would have never gotten that far had I not had a simple starting point to get me hooked and interested. Despite all this however, I still mostly use my computer for duble clicking around, browsing the net, and doing my homework. Man I must really be a moron (http://tongue.gif) .
Hell, the old UNIX days, people would log time on the mainframes to run certain aplications. The people who used those programms werent necessarly techheads who knew the machine and OS inside and out. They new the program, they used it as a tool. This dosn't make them stupid.
Wake up. You knowing more about computing dosn't make you more special or inteligent than anybody else, Im sure you werent born with a technical manual in your mouth.
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quote:
Originally posted by Xenoran:
As much as I dislike participating in this, I will outline 5 things that Windows (2000/XP will be versions in question) can do that Linux can't.
1) Host a Microsoft Exchange Server, an invaluble reasource to any corporation who relies heavily on the Microsoft Office Suite.
My dads office rely on bloated crap, and there
server runs solaris.
2) Utilize advanced 3D accelerators at their full potential through DirectX, for the most part Linux is limited to OpenGL optimizations and is unable to use the built in DirectX optimizations.
I use windows and Linux
What was Q3A twice as fast in linux (Red-Hat 7.2)
You may have linux but YOU CANT USE IT.
3) Rely completely on the GUI without any command line dependancies. The X GUIs such as KDE and Gnome have come a long way in making Liux more user friendly, but high level vital functions still require the use of the command line (the terminal if X is running). Without any command line knowledge, Linux can still be used through KDE but it will basically be limited to being a word processor / web box.
My Red-Hat 7.2 install is just about gui'd all the time. And i only use the shell because i'm soo
l337. My mum office now has moved to linux.
And she says she hasnt had her computer crash yet.
It used too crash all the time!!!
4) Use a driver certification system, through the use of WHQL driver certification, drivers can be guarenteed to be stable in the OS they are certified for. This is very valuble for less skilled users, with that system in place Windows can be set to reject any non-WHQL drivers and prevent a less skilled user from installing faulty drivers.
When you can view the Source of a driver, and can
see how it works its much better.
You seem to look as if you are a member of the Microsoft team.
5) Support the majority of hardware and software out on the market. This is a major plus for consumers, through all of the support Windows has throughout the hardware and software industries the users will be open to a much broader range of products that will work with their system.
Thats because they pay Hardware vendors to ONLY make there hardware for windows, and the same with software. Thats WHY we hate them and thats why there a MONOPOLY and thats why they wont be around
much longer.
And while I've completed my list, I would like to point out a few things in your list.
That one was correct... Linux is definately THE platform for programming.
Now, in closing I think I should clear a few things up on where my opinions stand. First, when I defend Windows, I am only defending the NT variations of it, Win9x was without a doubt a horrible OS, almost the the point of being unusable. Second, I do not hate Linux, it simply doesn't fit my needs for anything other than my HTTP/FTP/IRC server, I feel it's an excellent OS for most servers and for programming, it just leaves a lot to be desired in the feild of general desktop usability. And finally, Apple... Apple is a company I strongly dispise, they depend heavily on hype and aesthetics, neither of which matter in terms of real performance and as a company, they engage in some very childish mudslinging.
You "sort of" have a point.
I actually like windows 2000.
But Red-Hat linux is just the same.
I paid $30 for Red-Hat
And Windows was $300 when my mum got it
(5 user licence) and now she use's ONLY LINUX
at her bissness (which she runs)
She also says she happy that Red-Hat is cheap and
she is allowed too intall it on more than 5 machines.
This allows small bisnesses to reach greater goals. My mumz work is the best example of
"The funcional Office"
And compare prices of GNUcash and quickbooks.
Oh and red-hat came with star office.
Price per fuctioninal office workstation software running linux : $30 for the first machine.
windows: $1000+ per machine
WIndows price include MicroSith office, windows 2000, Quicken Quickbooks, And more.
Well, that's my two cents...
[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: Xenoran ]
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Very interesting debate. One thing I did notice was that at no time did "not registered" call any one he may have dissagreed with a childish name like "fucktard" or "needledick". I believe he conducted himself in a very MATURE manner which is more than I can say for some. Most of the arguements are far beyond me because I am only as I admit, an "average user" The more I read on here, the more I believe that Linux is basically a programmer/IT professionals system. The average person doesnt know or even care about 95% of the stuff you were talking about.
He is right about one thing I do understand and that is What in the hell are you people doing that caused your windows systems to crash every 5 minuts???? I have yet to have a crash with xp and had very very few with 98se. You guys get one debater on here that discusses things in an ADULT manner and you trash him by calling him childish names until he simply gives up in frustration. That is winning a debate?? I dont think so...
My turn... call me names.. I dont particularily give a shit. Wake up guys and gals... stop kneeling at the alter and realize that there is a world beyond linux. If this site does not encourage open debate, it should state that fact. The childishness of some on here, almost makes me puke. It would be interesting to have a poll and see what the average age of the participants is. Linux experience and life experience are obviously 2 different things. Calling people who dissagree with you stupid names may be considered fun to some, but to others, it may be insulting and considered reason enough to dismiss you as being not worthy of intellegent debate. He is also correct about close mindedness. Other than organized religion, ive never seen so much close mindedness and narrow mindedness.. Some of you are obviously very well trained as programmers, or some other type of IT professional. Is this indicative of the quality of people in the profession? I sure hope not.
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When I first came on this site, it was because I was getting very disgusted with the business practices of Microsoft.
What this site seems to consist of is this...
A group of people have found a "GOD" There is a core group here that continuously worship their God and re-affirm one anothers beliefs. It is so close to organized religion that it is astounding. Trash anyone elses beliefs... I suppose in a sense it is justified to do that because of the title of the site "fuckmicrosoft" Im not pleased with the way MS does business either but ranting childishly about crashing 5 times an hour and getting paranoid about "big brother watching" ect is silly..It may seem convenient to blame all the problems in the computer software industry on Bill and company, but seperating fact from paranoia is not something that seems to be on anyones agenda. Flaming people may be fun.. But you may just end up driving people away from Linux, because they wont anyone to think they are as immature as some on here (educated, obviosly) but immature. If this is just a fun, name calling site, why bother getting technical??
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it's a good job you don't mind being called a fucktard, so called 'average user' because that's what you are.
There's no 'god' here, this site is anti Microsoft and pro choice.
If you are against choice, and that is the god you refer to then fuck off. i have no time for a moron who doesn't appreciate the value of choice.
If on the other hand you are not anti choice, and you are just telling us all how much better you are than everybody else, then fuck off. everybody is equal to begin with, and debatably everybody stays equal until they die.
Basically if you are going to be a fucktard about it, then fuck off.
Nothing personal, but in MY opinion a debate is a debate if it contains content, regardless of whether expletives are used. When it becomes vacuous malodourous pompous self righteous tripe, as many try to make it (under the guise of being 'mature' and 'sensible', it is no longer worth carrying on the discussion.
When i say 'fuck' it is not to intimidate people, as you say yourself, you don't care if i call you a fucktard so why does it even matter?
answer: it doesn't.
so stop making a big deal about it.
and take a look at the name of this site too, you might be shocked.
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HMMMMMM.. I think you just proved my point Calum. Pro choice.. you bet!! If someone comes on here to defend microsoft, their choice. I did read the title of the site "fuckmicrosoft" but as hard as I look, nowhere can I find "praise linux" or any other OS. IF it is pro choice as you say, why am I a dickhead because I may dissagree with you? Is this a pro choice site or a LINUX soap box site? As far as the comparisons to organized religion.. look around at the postings.
verily verily I say unto you.. Stay not from the rightous path of Linux for there are many tempations. Resist the lures of "BILLZEBUB" or suffer the wrath of the rightous.. Keep thy thoughts free source and thy eye on the penguin.
You are absolutely correct.. PRO CHOICE that means if someone dissagrees with you, they are not automatically less intellegent, they are not automatically a "dickhead" "needledick" or whatever childish name you want to use. Education does not denote Intellegence.....
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What the heck is your beef avarge user?
You can stand on a soap box too, in fact your prolly standing on one now.
If you like Windows be like Zombie6464684867 and extol it's virtues in the face of other OS's. You'll get flames, and youll get more well thought out remarks etc.
In the Mac forum I extol the virtues of MacOS and suffer thrugh idiotic comments as simple as "Mac's suck fagget" and more intelectual debates on the merits of various chip architectures versus the G4.
So whatever. If you don't like a particular thread, find another one or start your own. There are people who have made legit arguments in favor of windows who have not sufferd a barage of insults and actualy stird up some interesting discusion.
So chill the fuck out, sit back, relax, and read thrugh the stuff on the forum. Jeez... for someone with a 4 star rating you sure act like you have been pissed on.
[ April 04, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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LROFLMAO Never fear.. Im chilled out.. I simply love to bug Calum because he leaves himself so open to it...Some take this whole OS thing far too seriously. I think that is the point I somewhat sarcastically make sometimes. Nothing personal against anyone on here..anyway, funs over for today.. got to go to work.
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Actually, there is nothing that gets this forum going better than some "poor ignorant windows user" coming in and defending his OS. It would be pretty boring if all the forum consisted of is constant bitching about MS and big bad bill and his OS. I enjoy reading the arguements and find it amusing when the "hard cores" get real riled up. Hell I promote it myself. That, to me, is what makes the forum fun, and keeps me coming back to it. Notice all the postings when someone like that comes in! Also notice the lengthy periods of inactivity when there is no "fiery" discussion going on. Everything negative about Microsoft that can be said has been said at one time or another on here, I have read most of the posts. Some of it is factual and has substance and some of it is plain bullshit, but that also promotes continuous activity on the forum because someone is bound to come in and say "thats bullshit" and "away we go!!" If I piss some of the people off here with my comments, good.. Better than watching re=runs of Barney Miller...
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quote:
Originally posted by average user:
HMMMMMM.. I think you just proved my point Calum. Pro choice.. you bet!! If someone comes on here to defend microsoft, their choice.
yup, i choose to call them immature names! free choice all round! ;) quote:
I did read the title of the site "fuckmicrosoft" but as hard as I look, nowhere can I find "praise linux" or any other OS.
??? you mean on the site? or do you mean another unrelated site should be set up with that name? quote:
IF it is pro choice as you say, why am I a dickhead because I may dissagree with you?
firstly i said you were a fucktard, not a dickhead. secondly, it has nothing to do with whether i agree with you, i just think that people who automatically dismiss someone's words just because they call somebody names is in itself immature and puerile. quote:
Is this a pro choice site or a LINUX soap box site? As far as the comparisons to organized religion.. look around at the postings.
verily verily I say unto you.. Stay not from the rightous path of Linux for there are many tempations. Resist the lures of "BILLZEBUB" or suffer the wrath of the rightous.. Keep thy thoughts free source and thy eye on the penguin.
well at least you have a sense of humour unlike some of the moral vote posters we've had here... quote:
You are absolutely correct.. PRO CHOICE that means if someone dissagrees with you, they are not automatically less intellegent, they are not automatically a "dickhead" "needledick" or whatever childish name you want to use.
again i say, i didn't call you a dickhead, and i didn't call anybody a needledick! Still, i will stand up for anybody's right to do so. quote:
Education does not denote Intellegence.....
again, it seems we agree completely on this one, so why are we even arguing?
quote:
LROFLMAO Never fear.. Im chilled out.. I simply love to bug Calum
What did i ever do to you? i don't think i even heard of you till this week! quote:
because he leaves himself so open to it...
i do what? it's not as if i give a shit what people say in response to my oft times overheated posts! quote:
Some take this whole OS thing far too seriously. I think that is the point I somewhat sarcastically make sometimes.
yes they do, don't they. Those people are often M$ fanatics. at least most of the linux people here have had a chance to think through their reasons for using linux, the windows users tend to just take what M$ gives them and like it. Also, you may notice again that this is a forum that, by virtue of it's very motivation for existence will attract people who take their OS seriously, and also people who like linux, amongst other OSs (most equally as good as linux, and none as bad as windows.) quote:
Nothing personal against anyone on here..
the feeling's mutual, although i'm confused by your approach. Myself i tend to have a habit of posting insults toward anybody who starts coming to the forums and preaching, or even just talking shit, and it's got nothing to do with their choice of software. if they talk shit, i will insult them. the words 'kitchen' and 'heat' spring readily to mind. anyway, funs over for today.. got to go to work. :D
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Yup, I do have a sense of humor and I too dont give a shit who calls me whatever silly name. I fully realize that it is meaningless.
Actually, there is a site similer to "praise linux" it is actually called "linux sucks" where you can either post a comment either for or against. Some of the postings on there are hilarious. It is true that some may become offended by the name calling, for instance "NOT REGISTERED" He did, you have to admit, put up some reasonable arguements, but started off leaving himself wide open by insulting the intellegence of the forum members. I also agree that if someone cant stand the heat "GET OUT OF THE FUCKING KITCHEN". I dont know enough about linux yet to really put forth VALID arguements either for or against. I learn a lot simply watching. I cant help but dig at some of the more PIOUS comments, because of its similarity to some of the narrow minded bigotry involved in some organized religion.
We are not that far apart on our ideas, you are obviosly more knowledgable about all aspects of Linux than I and I certainly have nothing against you. So call me what you will and I will probably respond accordingly. I personally find it kind of fun.
By the way. When I do ask a serious question on here, you give a good, informative answer. I certainly appreciate that. No hard feelings.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Very cute. I see that the administrator of this forum has the mind of a child since he likes to edit peoples' posts to say shit that was never said. I now realize why you all are die hard linux fans. It is because you are all little kids and you can't afford to buy an OS, so you have to download a free one.
I paid $30 for RedHat 7.2 bitch
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quote:
Originally posted by average user:
HMMMMMM.. I think you just proved my point Calum. Pro choice.. you bet!! If someone comes on here to defend microsoft, their choice. I did read the title of the site "fuckmicrosoft" but as hard as I look, nowhere can I find "praise linux" or any other OS. IF it is pro choice as you say, why am I a dickhead because I may dissagree with you? Is this a pro choice site or a LINUX soap box site? As far as the comparisons to organized religion.. look around at the postings.
verily verily I say unto you.. Stay not from the rightous path of Linux for there are many tempations. Resist the lures of "BILLZEBUB" or suffer the wrath of the rightous.. Keep thy thoughts free source and thy eye on the penguin.
You are absolutely correct.. PRO CHOICE that means if someone dissagrees with you, they are not automatically less intellegent, they are not automatically a "dickhead" "needledick" or whatever childish name you want to use. Education does not denote Intellegence.....
Only one very bored, sad motherfucker would defend Microsoft. Some people have lost the plot.
Go get linux.... Just try it ill bet you you'll love it in the end.
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quote:
Originally posted by average user:
Yup, I do have a sense of humor and I too dont give a shit who calls me whatever silly name. I fully realize that it is meaningless.
Actually, there is a site similer to "praise linux" it is actually called "linux sucks" where you can either post a comment either for or against. Some of the postings on there are hilarious. It is true that some may become offended by the name calling, for instance "NOT REGISTERED" He did, you have to admit, put up some reasonable arguements, but started off leaving himself wide open by insulting the intellegence of the forum members. I also agree that if someone cant stand the heat "GET OUT OF THE FUCKING KITCHEN". I dont know enough about linux yet to really put forth VALID arguements either for or against. I learn a lot simply watching. I cant help but dig at some of the more PIOUS comments, because of its similarity to some of the narrow minded bigotry involved in some organized religion.
We are not that far apart on our ideas, you are obviosly more knowledgable about all aspects of Linux than I and I certainly have nothing against you. So call me what you will and I will probably respond accordingly. I personally find it kind of fun.
By the way. When I do ask a serious question on here, you give a good, informative answer. I certainly appreciate that. No hard feelings.
top cool! :D i find it fun too, and i knew nothing about linux till not that long ago, try it btw! you can dual boot and still use whatever you use now, and it won't cost you a thing! then you too can post informative answers about linux and be cool like me (sarcastic and jovial, no insult intended!)
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Actually, I am running Linux.. Mandrake 8.1 and have also ordered the box version of Lycoris to see what it is like. One good point about linux is that I can try something like 6 or 7 distros of it for the same price as someone would pay for a boxed version of windows xp. I got my xp off ebay so I never paid anywhere near retail for it.
I think I said somewhere on here earlier that for the first week or so, I was using Knome and having a hell of a time. I switched to KDE with much better results. I am an old guy. I wasnt born into the computer age like many of you. I never even got a computer until 3 years ago. I used dedicated programs at work and thats it. My wife wont even try linux after seeing me try to get it to work, she will stick with xp. Unfortunatly for linux, a lot of people not only think, but find that linux is too hard for them to use. I guess i sort of get my hackles up by being called a retard ect, by some because I dont have the IT background or the time to delve into the inner workings of linux. I suppose if I did, I may become just as enthusiastic as most posters on here. I really dont believe, from a laymans veiwpoint, linux is really ready to be released to the public. I know a lot of you think it is, but I think you are so advanced into it that it is hard to comprehend that most of the population is basically computer illiterate. Bill Gates certainly realizes that. Im looking forward to trying LYCORIS and see if it is as user friendly as they claim. I can hear the swearing allready.. Its not REAL linux. But REAL linux will continue to exist. LYCORIS is not meant to replace REDHAT or any other distro. It cant. Its impossible.
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Let me clear some things up
I'm sorry about calling novice users itots. I mearly said it because of tearms like "idot proof". And in no way did I mean that they were idots in other aspects of their life. I just ment that they did not know as much about compuers as we all do. Sort of like an English major might call a computer programmer an idot if he said "She and me went to the local diner for our date." Een if he can run circles around her in c++.
quote:
Originally posted by psyjax:
How do you expect people to get in to the more complicated aspects of computing if they can't even use the machine to begin with.
I don't. I was mearly saying that, IMHO, Windows is the best OS for people to learn to use the machine.
quote:
Originally posted by psyjax:
I wasn't born a hacker, I was raised on Apple II's and Commodor 64's. Just because I only knew the standard file navigating command-line functions, and not the more detailed technocal bits, didn't religate me to the realm of idiot. ...I know asembly, I can go in and out of the GUI and can do anything I want.
I would have never gotten that far had I not had a simple starting point to get me hooked and interested. Despite all this however, I still mostly use my computer for duble clicking around, browsing the net, and doing my homework. Man I must really be a moron (http://tongue.gif) .
I didn't mean to call those that know the command line and asm and always use the GUI morons; I just ment to those that only know how to use the GUI morons. As I said, I probally shouldn't have called anyone a moron. As I said, I once only knew a few aspects of windows myself. I would have been considered an idot if I had used the standards I used before. You weren't "born a hacker", and neither was I.
quote:
Originally posted by iustitia:
And to say that the novices aren't allowed to use the computer is just not fai... well it is fair but they don't think so.
quote:
Originally posted by psyjax, in referance to mthe previous quote:
Besides, no one should be able to dictate who and who shouldent use a computer. It's not your place.
You're right. I should have never said that. It's just that I sometimes get annoyed at a conversation that might go like this:
user: Where is that file I saved?
me: What directory did you save it in?
uer Directory? What's that?
quote:
Originally posted by psyjax:
I know plenty of Linux and UNIX people who know the OS and aren't programmers.
I'm sorry but I don't know any Linux/Unix users that don't know a lot about computers.
quote:
Originally posted by avarage user:
The average person doesnt know or even care about 95% of the stuff you [forum posters] were [are] talking about.
I think this sums up breifly why windows is on top. Other OS' let you care, Windows does not.
quote:
Originally posted by Calum:
...why would packaging a heapload of uncoordinated proprietary bullshit with a nice new PC be GOOD for the user? If it was the norm to give "those people" the choice, when they bought the machine, there would be no confusion, not even amongst those "novice users" you so eloquently dismiss, because it would be NORMAL. It would be WHAT THEY EXPECTED. They could even choose to have SunOS, SUSELinux, Windows3.1, OS/2, whatever they wanted installed in the shop. They could pay extra and never have to install it themselves (unless it was windows, as it needs reinstalled periodically but that's another story). The important thing here is they would have the choice. They would be told their options and be able to choose. Do you really have a problem with that?
Now to us this may make perfect sence. But the avrage user would find it a hastle to even have to bring it in to someone to install the OS. It's like the philosophy advertized by the iMac. Plug in the cord, plug in the phone wire, and you're on! Novice users like that.
[ April 05, 2002: Message edited by: iustitia ]
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Call me an edeit for not being able to spell idiot.
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Ok instutia, perhapse then your sentiment could be better expresed:
People who use computers and think all there is to them is the GUI and would rather take what is handed to them are at best unwise. And those users who only know a GUI and prettend to know more about computers than they actually do because they have been to timmid to so much as peek under the hood, yet they still go to forums posting crap like D00d I WaNT WaREz and i need to format My RAM and partition my video card, ya they are morons :D .
In defence of the iMac, you can install linux on it and still be able to pull it out of the box and plug it in. No to bad a deal I reckon (http://smile.gif) .
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As i said earlyier...
If you defend microsoft you are a sad sad motherfucker.