Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => Linux and UNIX => Topic started by: creedon on 21 August 2002, 21:16
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Why do you think that posting to this forum about the advantages of any Microsoft Operating System is going to change the mind of one member of this forum, and get them to change back. Isn't it kind of like a religious argument? I mean, look at it objectively, we've chosen to use a different OS; how does that affect you in the slightest? My personal reasons for using Linux have nothing to do with the system itself; mine are philisopical reasons: I don't like Microsoft Inc. The only way I would ever support MS would be if they went open source. Conversely, right now, I'm using WIN98 SE (a copy I PAID for, Thank You) for reasons that are my own; I could, however, re-boot and use any of my Debian installs (that I, again, PAID for). I choose to no longer support a corporation that uses what appear to me to be unethical, immoral, coersive business methods.
Is Linux a better OS, fuctionally? Yeah, I guess so. Is the Linux philosophy superior to Microsoft, Inc.? Positively, I won't participate in the activities of a company whose behavior sickens me.
Don't bother telling me how technically superior Windows is, you're just wasting bandwidth; that argument means less than nothing to me, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who supports any product of Microsoft, Inc. is morally bankrupt.
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I just thought that we would get truth out of this message thread.
I hoped that somebody from *NIX fans would show how wrong I'm about Windows and how it UNIX blows away Windows.
I really want to know why I would want to choose *NIX architecture over Microsoft? What technical advantage would it give to me?
So far, my first thread has been closed and I got a ton of dirt from *NIX fans but nothing constructive.
As far as I understand this is not *NIX support forum (look at site name) so I though it would be appropriate to ask questions which I ask. I don't consider Windows to be a religion which a lot *NIX fans think about their OS. I do question things and want to know the truth. But I did not get any so far.
So again, why from technical stand point of view I would want to choose *NIX?
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Youwant to know why Linux is better than windows, because survey after survey shows that windows is more vulnerable to viruses and crackers than even the least secure version of UNIX. From a moral stand point Microsoft is evil, the only reason they are where they are today is because they cheated and lied to get there. And from a cost stand point, linux is cheaper to buy and maintain than any Microsoft system. On you site you really should address how corrupt microsoft is, otherwise you are just as bad as the so called Unix worshipers. Anyone can ignore facts, like you say we are doing, but you also are ignoring important facts about microsoft.
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There are many reasons to change to *NIX, there are many reasons to change to MacOS, there are many reasons to change to any operating system besides Windows. That's what this site is for. Now, fortunately you have a choice, you can get a copy of Linux for free, install it, learn it, change it, explore ways to do things that you can do in Windows, and ways to do things you can't do in Windows.
It's not going to give you immediate satisfaction if you have only used Windows all of your life. It takes commitment to learning. In every case that I have found, people who have made that commitment and put forth the effort, never have the slightest itch to go back. Now you may decide that it isn't for you or you don't want to invest the time and you will continue to pay the M$ tax. Maybe you are afraid of learning something new and liking it?
Anyone here would be more than happy to help you out if you have any questions.
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Well. As I said in my website I did install Linux (SlackWare), I did install Solaris and I do use *NIX on daily basis for DNS stuff.
I never claimed to be *NIX expert as you claim to be in M$ systems so I guess there are some things which you can do there which you can't in Windows (though I still has not got any examples, though I just rememebered one - I can boot from CD, edit paswd file and become root).
So I have Linux and Windows on the same plate. Why do I choose Linux? Is it easier to administer? Is faster? Does it support more hardware/software? The only thing which I can see and I do give it to Linux is the price. You can not beat that.
In fact I do love *NIX for doing some things like using dig, nslookup, host, telnet, ssh etc. Other then that I don't see much point for me to move away from Windows.
What you said last time about flat domain structure of NT and AD and incompatibility is completely untrue so please don't make waves.
Greg
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Oh, so you are telling me that M$ still supports Windows NT? It wasn't that long ago that we got our entire corporation migrated entirely to NT and NT domain structure, then they dropped support for NT4 and now they tell us we should switch to AD which causes an "upgrade" to Windows 2000, that we didn't "need". How long will that support last?
Now they come out with Licensing 6.0, oh I get to pay M$ every year for stuff that I don't need. Why do I have to upgrade Office every year? Why do I need to upgrade to Office 95 when Office 6.0 did everything I needed. Why do I now have to upgrade to Office 97 when Office 95 was working so well for me? Why do I need to upgrade to Office 2000 when Office 97 did everything I needed. Why do I need to upgrade to Office XP when Office 2000 was working so well for me. Why Because M$ is a corporate money sucking machine and they intentionally produce software that is intended to make it nearly impossible to stick with previous versions, then increase the price exponentially.
Do you realize how much this costs us to upgrade every time M$ farts out a new product on a 6,000 node network? If their products are so good, then why do I need to "upgrade" so often? Sounds like there must be major room for improvement. Do you think XP is where it all ends? Now they have the "perfect" OS? Heh heh, it'll be obsolote in a year or two. .NET? No thanks. From day one M$ has built their money train on being incompatible not only with other operating systems, but with their own. Not by accident, and not for technical reasons. The reasons are pure greed.
Why is it that I have to purchase virus software for all machines on my corporate network and virus software for all of my Exchange servers, which only stops the "known" viruses by the way? Why is it that Microsoft after how many years of pumping out operating systems still hasn't been able to lick that "little" problem of being massively susceptible to viruses, not only in their operating systems but within their applications? I frankly have better things to do with my time than constantly wiping out viruses and recovering from a Melissa or I-LOVE-YOU variant.
Now, I want to write an application in VB or C++. Hmmm, I don't find a compiler included with my operating system. What? I have to pay for development tools which are going to create applications that will help further the spread of Windows? Nah, I'll pick an OS that comes with all the development tools imaginable.
Now I want to build a database driven web server. Hmm, I have to buy a copy of Win2K and SQL Server and what is this going to set me back for licensing to have an Internet connected SQL Server that anybody on earth can connect to? Nah, I think I'll pick an OS where all of this stuff is included, and at no charge.
Hmmm, I don't like the way this application works because of this simple little item. Hmmm, if only I had the source code I could change it. What? No source code? Nah, I'll stick with an Open system.
It seems you have an extremely small taste of UNIX by using DNS. Now why don't you take a few more steps and try some other things. Maybe get a copy of RedHat 7.3 and buy a book or two (not that they are necessary with all of the information on-line).
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Well again I'm not analyzing TCO of owning Windows and *NIX. I was talking purely from technical aspects.
.NET Framework comes with compilers for c# and VB.NET, you can have Perl.NET as well. And it's free. Of course you can buy VS.NET but it's optional.
Can you explain me why would I want to explore more of *NIX?
So say I have business out there which wants simplicity and power at the same time. I would install Win2000, and use it for all their needs. it would serve well and it would take me 1 day at most to install it. Do I think I sound unreasonable?
Why would I want to spend 3 weeks on learning *NIX and then would achieve exactly the same result? What would be the advantage for me or for that business? Even if I would learn how to do the same stuff on *NIX in 3 weeks, how much time would it take me to teach some semi-educated admin at that business to learn *NIX, another half a year?
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Believe me, it will take you longer than 3 weeks to become proficient, just as it took you longer than 3 weeks to become proficient with M$ products. In fact 99% of all MCSEs I have ever met I wouldn't consider proficient with M$ operating systems. TCO is a *major* factor in selecting a product, you can't ignore it. And I could put forth the same questions to you about Windows that you put to me about *NIX or more specifically Linux. Why should I put forth the effort when Linux does everything I need? And then on top of it, have to pay for it, not only once, but for every machine I want to install Windows on, and then have to pay for upgrades once a year?
I have a side business where I do exactly what you are with Windows. I install Linux servers for companies. Most of my business comes from replacing Microsoft NT/2K/IIS servers with Linux/Apache. I also install Linux servers as a front-end to Microsoft exchange servers to do things like block viral attachments and spam. I also install Linux based network monitoring/paging servers that report the health of networks and servers (including M$ servers, UNIX servers, mainframes, etc), Linux based IDS (intrusion detection systems), install/configure/support firewalls and Cisco routers.
Now you may find this hard to believe but we also provide trouble-shooting support for NT, 2K, Metaframe, and Citrix servers/networks. I am finding that when there is an equal or better Linux solution people are turning to it. Not only is the TCO lower, but it is easier on both them and me. More customizable, no licensing hassles, no visits from the Microsoft auditors, lower TCO, life is good. And every day Microsoft becomes less and less relevent. Maybe you should start learning so you still have a job in a few years (unless you prefer to flip burgers, but the world needs burger flippers).
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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I have not said that it would take me 3 weeks to become proficient (read postings properly), I said that it would take me 3 weeks to install all *NIX workshop as opposed to Windows.
I don't see any data supporting that Windows loosing ground so I'm not sure why would you think that I would be unemployed. You have exactly the same chances as me.
So do we agree that from tecnnical standpoint of view there is no advantage of using *NIX, if not then please gimme examples.
And to that dumbass which posted article before here who told that his c++ program runs 3x faster on Linux then on Windows. Please give me some credit about my IQ. Even without being even close technical I would make assumption that all programs written for Linux are 3x faster then the same one for Windows since c++ performs 3x better there. Do you have any prove for ANY commercial product? I have - www.tpc.org, (http://www.tpc.org,) go and find you *NIXes there.
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I have not said that it would take me 3 weeks to become proficient (read postings properly), I said that it would take me 3 weeks to install all *NIX workshop as opposed to Windows.
Now you are just being silly. I can do from scratch Linux installs 10 times faster than you can install a Windows shop. And for say 2 servers, and 50 clients from scratch it would take less than a day.
I don't see any data supporting that Windows loosing ground so I'm not sure why would you think that I would be unemployed.
Then you are blind and haven't been keeping up with the news....
You have exactly the same chances as me.
Not quite, you are only proficient in Windows (even that is up in the air). I am equally proficient in both Windows and *NIX (Linux, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, BSD). So I say that gives me an advantage.
So do we agree that from tecnnical standpoint of view there is no advantage of using *NIX, if not then please gimme examples.
Now why would I agree to something so outrageous as that? Windows has never come even close to being as robust as UNIX. Well, it get's a little closer every time they steal more BSD code for their operating system, but the gap is still bigger than the Grand Canyon. Read back through some of the old posts on this forum. I hate to repeat myself.
And to that dumbass which posted article before here who told that his c++ program runs 3x faster on Linux then on Windows. Please give me some credit about my IQ. Even without being even close technical I would make assumption that all programs written for Linux are 3x faster then the same one for Windows since c++ performs 3x better there.
Now I would agree with you there (no offence X11). Using equal hardware, equal compilers, equal optimizations they should be roughly the same speed, depending on the nature of the task, of course I could always write a program that was intentionally biased:
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Why would not you just tell what is that *NIX do which Windows can not instead of pointing to different direction each time?
Obviously you disagree that from technical standpoint is on par with Windows.
Please tell me specifics, I would really like to know.
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Automation is far easier in UNIX. Development in UNIX is far easier and doesn't require the installation of other software. Administration is far easier in UNIX. Remote administration and use of UNIX is as easy as local administration and use. If I don't like the way an app works, I have the power to modify it for my specific needs. I can read my email without fear of getting a virus that will gather up all of my personal documents and send them out to all my friends. Or worse, delete everything on every network share I have permissions to, followed by deleting everything on my local hard drive. I can check my operating system for back doors, can you say the same? I can download a CD containing my operating system and install it on as many computers as I like legally, no questions asked, can you?
If I want to optimize my kernel and every application on my system to my specific processor and hardware I can. My operating system will run on many architectures (x86, PPC, Sparc, RISC, Alpha, Mainframe, and on and on and on). So I am comfortable with operation from the bottom of the line x86 to mainframes. With Windows I'm locked in to one architecture. I have a choice of many GUI environments available and included so I can pick the one *I* prefer, many productivity apps available and included. It can interoperate easily with damn near every other operating system out there, unlike Windows which only interacts with itself, and then half assed. I can go on for hours, but I don't see the need.
Oh, and did I mention it's free? Why don't you give it a spin? Might I suggest one of the first things you look at is "shell programming". It certainly isn't necessary for a "user" of UNIX but it is where you will begin to see the power of UNIX and the limitations of Windows. I am confident that if you become familiar with that, you'll be well on your way to the point of no return.
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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So this was your points???!!!!!
That's pretty weak I must admit, I though you have something up in your sleve which you would use but you have nothing!
Administration of UNIX is easier?! What you've been smoking? How you going to install printer on client machine in UNIX as opposed to double clicking icon in Windows?
Development is easier? Remember what came first ASP or PHP. Is c++ is easier then VB?
You can read your email without getting virus? I can also! What a surprise.
You can have different desktops?! What is advantage of that for Christ's sake!
And what you said about interoperability? There is such thing as Services for UNIX which would allow you to sync password, mount NFS shares and bunch of other things, there NetWare gateway and client, there is AppleTalk gateway, there is print services for UNIX. I don't think you really realise that being uneducated and inproficient in Windows I can possibly know all that things.
Just don't tell me that it's all you have! It's really weak.
P.S. To people who gave me 1 star in my profile. Do you REALLY think that I care?
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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I am not here to convince you which is better, I already know which is enough for me. On the other hand if you are willing to open up your mind a little I would be more than happy to help you learn for yourself. When you have put forth the effort you can make your own conclusions.
Maybe it will not be the best solution for you for everything you do, but maybe it will be a better solution for you in some of the things you do. And maybe it will save you some money and help improve your productivity in certain areas. You certainly will be more intelligent when it comes to your arguments. Who knows, maybe you will even start to like it, but that thought probably scares you too much.
Now, since you already have convinced yourself why are you here? I don't go to your BBS and tell you how much Windows sucks. I don't go to http://www.windowsbbs.com/ (http://www.windowsbbs.com/) and make fun of all of the idiots over there. That would be trolling, something I don't have time for, and something you appear to be doing here. Now it would give me great pleasure if you go back to your BBS and spew all the UNIX drivel you care to. If you want to learn more about UNIX, I will help you but you have to take the first step.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
P.S. To people who gave me 1 star in my profile. Do you REALLY think that I care?
obviously you do, else you wouldn't have mentioned it.....
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
So this was your points???!!!!!
Remember what came first ASP or PHP.
Heh heh, if you think that matters then you must remember which came first, UNIX or Windows.
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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The reason why i don't go to www.windowsbbs.com (http://www.windowsbbs.com) is becouse I don't like message boards where all people do is praise their religion.
Why am I here? I hoped that I'll learn something from you or other *NIX gurus here which would tell me why would I need to consider abandoning Microsoft and it's products. Despite the contraversion TCO I don't know any other reasons and I certainly did not receive any valuable points from you either. So when you go and face somebody that knows what he is doing, it's not that easy to sell your religion, is it?
I wish I would be on that sales pitches by *NIX advocates which trying to sell their technology to some uneducated people to defend and show other side of the story. But sorry, I'm not allowed to, even in free world of Internet I have my messages removed by forum moderators.
That's really weak.
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Well according to your profile you are 30 years old. You came here acting more like a 10 year old. I don't know about you but I don't make my decisions based on what other people say or by some hyped up marketing speal. I pick my software based on merits of my experiences with both.
I have a lot of experience in both and even though I've used/supported both over the last 15 years I have made my choices as to which I heavily prefer. Maybe you should do yourself (and your clients) a favor and learn something for yourself and then present what makes the most sense for each individual application.
And by the way, this is *not* a pro-UNIX site. It's an ANTI-M$ site. So why don't you go over to the Mac forums on this site and start a flame war there, they will appreciate it.
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Am I acting as 10 y.o? Was not it you who called names and insulted me personally. How mature of you! At least I send you private message not public.
Becouse I don't consider Mac and Windows competitors on server market.
You are out of arguments why *NIX is better, don't you, admit it and I'll be out of your hair.
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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Ok, I am out of arguments why *NIX is better, now begone..
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From a programmer who has been working with linux a bit over a year, but never used it before that time (i.e. me):
I would kill myself if I ever had to program using windows again. Buggy and crashprone IDE's, sloppy MS API's (puh lease... the WIN32 API is a fucking joke, MFC is a OO wrapper around the W32 API which makes it even more horrible, because there are a lot of functions with a zillion parameters of which you only use a small portion, if you see the code a few months later you'll have to look twice to see what's going on)
If I had to code for windows again, I'd just use a cross compiler, code under linux and once in a while build a windows version (using magnificent toolkits like Qt (http://www.trolltech.com) or SDL (http://www.libsdl.org))
Visual Basic teaches you *extremely* bad programming habits (it is not ok for a programmer to get used to the fact that his language has some kind of magical built in typecasting system, which makes for some incredibly ugly code).
The only thing which could be considered an advantage a windows developer has is autocompletion, however this is a moot point imo because it does not greatly speed up a programmers work and it creates mindless programmers who don't truly know the tools they use, and this is also available for linux (with Borland (http://www.borland.com)'s Kylix 3.0
And the greatest advantage yet is that for practically any library you use you have the source code available, now this greatly speeds up development time because it is much easier to find out what is going on if you can step through library functions with a debugger.
The miriad of debugging tools available are pure heaven, nothing (and I mean nothing) available for windows can touch the strace command.
Compile times under linux are a lot faster then compiling the same program under windows. Linux caches all the files it needs for the make process and has no HDD activity while compiling (I have a lot of RAM ;) ), windows has a lot of HDD activity. On big projects this can differ a few minutes per build.
Now these are all technical (and imnsho irrefutable) points linux has over windows.
oh and eh....
[puts on spelling nazi cap]
you had thirty years (according to your profile) to become at least a little bit proficient with your own language yet you manage to create sentences like the following:
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So this was your points???!!!
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What you've been smoking?
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You can read your email without getting virus? I can also!
Now excuse me, but I'm nine years younger then you, english is not my first language and I can even produce better sentences than that crap.
Let me guess, english is the only language you know too?
[takes off spelling nazi cap]
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No, English is not my native language. My native language is Russian. Satisfied?
Have you seen VB.NET? If you have not then please don't post article about how bad VB is without digging down.
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I knew you would lie, just like Microsoft always does, about getting out of our hair. No, I have not seen VB.NET. Can you give us some reasons as to why we should switch from our tried and true languages to this one?
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Every company or Hopital I have worked for has had a policy of testing ALL software in the lab before it is installed in production. This is done for very solid business and technical reasons. With the new M$ OS versions and Licence arrangements you are forced to have unauthorized software installed throughout the organization. This is of course NOT in the best interests of the organizations which use M$ crapware...er I mean software.
I would love to know why BIG and I mean BIG companies put up with this situation. Perhaps unixsucks dude can explain this to me.
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No, English is not my native language. My native language is Russian. Satisfied?
ok, then I will leave my spelling nazi cap off ;)
(it's just that your credibility is directly related to the effort you put in your posts)
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Have you seen VB.NET? If you have not then please don't post article about how bad VB is without digging down.
Without ever having seen VB.NET I am 99% sure that they did not change a damned thing to my biggest gripe with VB, the magical typecasting (i.e. use a integer DIM, then use it as a string, then use it as a double). You cannot imagine how hard it is to maintain code like this, further most time critical stuff is done in C/C++ and then used as a .OCX or a .DLL with visual basic.
Visual basic programs are slow, and on most win9x systems you'll get the added bonus of having to download a few Mb's of DLL's over a 56k6 modem to run a program of 500Kb.
Furthermore, all my other points still stand (if you would have read my post you might have noticed that it didn't only cover VB).
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: BadKarma ]
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: BadKarma ]
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You don't need to read this thread if you don't want to.
And I'm not advocating using VB.NET, in fact I prefer C#, what is important here is .NET Framework and things which it make possible now which were not possible before. All languages are now fully OO oriented, there is no third class languages any more. In fact there is Perl.NET and Cobol.NET. The reason why all languages are equal is becouse they provide just interface to CLR (Common Language Runtime), so you can compile your project to IL (intermediate languge) which are JIT compiled at run-time to processor-specific code. Have you noted that "processor-specic"? Yes, .NET would be portable to different platforms. Look here http://www.go-mono.com/. (http://www.go-mono.com/.)
And to reply to Karma. You have an "Option Strict" in VB.NET so if you want automated casteing then you turn it off if you want type safe operation then you turn it on. So may be you need first to look at product before judging it?
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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I think I'll .NOT. M$ was just pissed because Sun called them on breaking Java. Typical M$ tactics...
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Oh, yes? Then what is this about - http://www.dotgnu.org (http://www.dotgnu.org)
How come *NIX world is copying M$ now?
I assume you are not familiar with .NET Framework so let's leave it where it is, just gray area of your expertise. All people whom I knew (including die hard UNIX/Java/Open source fanatics) were really impressed with what M$ did with .NET.
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
You don't need to read this thread if you don't want to.
And I'm not advocating using VB.NET, in fact I prefer C#, what is important here is .NET Framework and things which it make possible now which were not possible before. All languages are now fully OO oriented, there is no third class languages any more. In fact there is Perl.NET and Cobol.NET. The reason why all languages are equal is becouse they provide just interface to CLR (Common Language Runtime), so you can compile your project to IL (intermediate languge) which are JIT compiled at run-time to processor-specific code. Have you noted that "processor-specic"? Yes, .NET would be portable to different platforms. Look here http://www.go-mono.com/. (http://www.go-mono.com/.)
And to reply to Karma. You have an "Option Strict" in VB.NET so if you want automated casteing then you turn it off if you want type safe operation then you turn it on. So may be you need first to look at product before judging it?
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: www.unixsucks.com (http://www.unixsucks.com) ]
And now what this means in the real world:
There is one underlying language which propagates its bugs and errors (and we all know how well MS is at writing bug free code :rolleyes: ) to all the languages which use it. A simple buffer overflow error (and we all know that microsoft never created these :rolleyes: ) could leave hundreds of applications vulnarable for god knows how long (because we all know how fast MS is with bugfixes :rolleyes: ).
And I can already see a virus being created to customize the JIT compiler a little bit, seeing it compiles every program you run (once at least, but the same virus could just wipe the JIT cache and force it to recompile). The stuff which could happen in this scenario is beyond any form of decription....
And I didn't judge about VB.NET, and I never will because there is no way in hell I'm going to spend hundreds of dollars to buy a product just to test it (and probably discover that I like C++ better anyway ;) ).
You ask our opinions, but you already had your mind made up before you even asked. Why again do you bother to even post here? Or are you just another troll like windows xp user 585394858? Because something is seriously wrong with you if you're 30 and still like to troll message boards.....
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You don't need to buy VB.NET!
You download .NET framework and use vb compiler which comes with it. C'mon stop acting childish yourself, if you don't know thing about subject then just quit talking about it.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Oh, yes? Then what is this about - http://www.dotgnu.org (http://www.dotgnu.org)
How come *NIX world is copying M$ now?
That's the beauty of open source. It can do everything M$ can no matter how hard M$ tries to stop them from doing so by using closed protocols and APIs. No matter how stupid or Nazi like something is that M$ comes up with you will find a project in the open source world that will build compatibility with that product.
M$ has no interest in interoperability or compatibility. Now, just because the capability will be there doesn't mean everyone will use it. There are many open source people unhappy with the Ximian dude for doing the mono project, and for talking about building it into Gnome. But for those that wish to use it, it will be available for them. And have you actually read the front page of http://www.dotgnu.org/ (http://www.dotgnu.org/) which give many more good reasons for not using M$ or trust them?
[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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No, I don't need to buy it, however if I want to use most (all? didn't check them all) of the examples from the MSDN library (and I will need to learn it somehow should I ever want to (yeah, right ...)) I will see the following bit mentioned there:
quote:
Requirements
Microsoft Visual Studio.NET Professional or greater.
Now I get paid pretty good for a 21 year old, but like hell that I'm buying MS VS.NET for the not too shabby price of: $1,079 US (and that's the professional edition without full DB support and some other missing features).
Excuse me, but that just sounds like outright extortion to me.....
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Where you read that requirement?
it's your third post when you are trying to talk about subject you have very little understanding about.
Here is quote from M$ site
Microsoft .NET Framework Software Development Kit
The Microsoft
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It's sort of difficult to get since I have .microsoft.com blocked at my firewall. Nothing but viruses come from that domain. (http://smile.gif)
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I took the quote from a VB.NET example page for creating dynamic controls (from MSDN). A mundane programming example, why it requires VS.NET is beyond me.
you can find the page I am reffering to here (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnvssamp/html/vbcs_DynamicControlCreation.asp)
so yes ... you can download the .NET framework for free, however to fully learn it you will have to have VS.NET. Some of the examples work with the trial version, but most examples need the professional edition (or greater ... lol)
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oh and unixsucks ... I've made a lot of points besides the VB issue, yet you seem to avoid replying to them?
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To all of you *NIX fans.
The more I talk to you the more I can see that you don't question your religion and you NEVER acknowledge anything even if I would prove your wrong.
Look at BadKarma. He made a point that you need to buy $1500 VS.NET to program VB.NET. I have answered him 2 times, even attached links and he still would not admit that he was wrong.
Look at VoidMain. I asked him about assigning permission to different groups to single file. First he got defensive that there is ACL, then we figured out that NFS does not support it and then he admitted that he use MS technologies for file sharing! He still has not answered how to assign permission to the file for locally logged on use only.
This will never end as you never admit anything even if you feel that you are wrong.
There were only single posting which did admit that Linux community bowed to NT after Mindcrafts tests. I respect him as at least he has his had clear of idolizing things as all of you do.
I had to spend 2 months of my time to prepare and certify for Sun Solaris Admin certification. The only reason why I did it is to learn other OS, so I can see for myself wether I can do things faster or better in *NIX compared to Windows. And I found NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING which *NIX does which can not be done in Windows. But at the same time tons of things can be done faster and easier in Windows then in UNIX, apart from some things which you can not do in UNIX at all.
How do you file share? NFS? How secure is that? I don't consider myself big expert in NIS but Solaris admin book told me that NIS database syncronisations performed in clear text. Is it true? NIS+ is not compatible with NIS while NT domain structure can be easily migrated and supported under Windows 2000 AD. Please explain me how your user friendly *NIX would be able to enable clients to print to newly installed printer. How much time would it take you to setup clients? How much time would it take you in Windows (send email with UNC path to print server and double click printer, that's it).
Whatever! Keep your minds closed! It's the best way to worship I understand that.
[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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I'm not a network expert so I can't really comment on that. The only point I made which you refuted was about VB.NET requiring VS.NET and I already admitted that yes, you don't need VS.NET to compile VB.NET apps however most MSDN code example require VS.NET. I didn't pull that link from the MSDN knowledge base out of my ass....
All my other points of advantages a developer using linux vs a developer using windows still stand ....
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I have 3000 .html files on my webserver. I want to rename them all to .php and change all the links in the pages accordingly. I type one line into a UNIX command prompt to do this. How do I do it in Windows?
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
To all of you *NIX fans.
The more I talk to you the more I can see that you don't question your religion and you NEVER acknowledge anything even if I would prove your wrong.
Look at BadKarma. He made a point that you need to buy $1500 VS.NET to program VB.NET. I have answered him 2 times, even attached links and he still would not admit that he was wrong.
Look at VoidMain. I asked him about assigning permission to different groups to single file. First he got defensive that there is ACL, then we figured out that NFS does not support it and then he admitted that he use MS technologies for file sharing! He still has not answered how to assign permission to the file for locally logged on use only.
This will never end as you never admit anything even if you feel that you are wrong.
There were only single posting which did admit that Linux community bowed to NT after Mindcrafts tests. I respect him as at least he has his had clear of idolizing things as all of you do.
I had to spend 2 months of my time to prepare and certify for Sun Solaris Admin certification. The only reason why I did it is to learn other OS, so I can see for myself wether I can do things faster or better in *NIX compared to Windows. And I found NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING which *NIX does which can not be done in Windows. But at the same time tons of things can be done faster and easier in Windows then in UNIX, apart from some things which you can not do in UNIX at all.
How do you file share? NFS? How secure is that? I don't consider myself big expert in NIS but Solaris admin book told me that NIS database syncronisations performed in clear text. Is it true? NIS+ is not compatible with NIS while NT domain structure can be easily migrated and supported under Windows 2000 AD. Please explain me how your user friendly *NIX would be able to enable clients to print to newly installed printer. How much time would it take you to setup clients? How much time would it take you in Windows (send email with UNC path to print server and double click printer, that's it).
Whatever! Keep your minds closed! It's the best way to worship I understand that.
[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: www.unixsucks.com (http://www.unixsucks.com) ]
You weren't reading very well when you responded to this thread. My objection to the use of Microsoft products is MORAL; I'm not arguing which system is technically better, my objection is the business practices of the corporation that produces your O.S. of choice- the point I'm trying to make is, Why do MS advocates keep trying to change the opinions of Linux/UNIX users; a significant part of the community is there becaue of their dislike of the economic policies, and the underhanded tactics tha Microsoft has en=mployed over the past 20+ years. Those practices are documented, MS can't deny thm; to me the methods that Microsoft uses in its conduct of business are reprehensible- THAT'S why I use an alternative Operating System; I find the Linux philosophy to be honest and open; until MS changes their fundimental business methods, I ant NOTHING to do with them.
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Majority of people here as far as I understand claim superiority of *NIX over Microsoft from tecnical standpoint not economic factors. If we are talking about corporate UNIX (Solaris, AIX etc) then I would not even doubt that TCO would be lower with Windows solution. If we are talking about Linux then I would doubt where TCO would be lower actually bearing in mind that OS is free.
And to that idiot who said that he rename 5000 html files and update link as well in UNIX. I can do it in Windows 2000 as well. More over I also have the same choices as you - having Perl script to do that or run WSH script written in VBScript. Beleive me you can do all the fancy things in Windows as well, if you don't know how to do that then it does not necessarily mean that it can not be done. So consult somebody knowlegable about Windows first.
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I'm not talking about writing a script. I'm talking about being able to type one line into a command prompt. And no you can't do that in Windows because the provided command line utilities are inadequate and the shell is deliberately crippled. Microsoft would love to kill the command prompt off altogether so point & click monkeys will have an even harder time migrating to a OS for grownups. And of course your Perl solution requires installing additional 3rd party software which is provided by - gasp - the free software/UNIX communtity.
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Please, please, please if you don't know what you are talking about then just stop.
Yes, Windows OS does not provide me with rich shell script support but provide me with a tools to accomplish the same tasks. It's called Windows Scripting Host.
So please shut up and stop confusing people.
So you think command line is great is it. How great is it for managing ACLs on files? Very convenient compared to GUI where you can see and manage permissions with single clicks.
You don't have a case here, please don't even start.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Majority of people here as far as I understand claim superiority of *NIX over Microsoft from tecnical standpoint not economic factors. If we are talking about corporate UNIX (Solaris, AIX etc) then I would not even doubt that TCO would be lower with Windows solution. If we are talking about Linux then I would doubt where TCO would be lower actually bearing in mind that OS is free.
And to that idiot who said that he rename 5000 html files and update link as well in UNIX. I can do it in Windows 2000 as well. More over I also have the same choices as you - having Perl script to do that or run WSH script written in VBScript. Beleive me you can do all the fancy things in Windows as well, if you don't know how to do that then it does not necessarily mean that it can not be done. So consult somebody knowlegable about Windows first.
I'm sending and you're not getting it! I DON'T give a shit about any of the technical aspects of this thread (That I started) stop changing the subject; explain to me why I should change to MS products on MY terms, or stop posting to this thread!! If you haven't got an argument that is trenchant to this discussion, YOU DON'T BELONG HERE!!
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What are YOUR terms?
If you are happy with *NIX then don't change. I guess if you have seen both worlds then you can make decision on your own and don't need me to help you make decision. You claimed that Linux is functionally superior to Windows and I claim that you are wrong.
What is exactly your problem again?
[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
What are YOUR terms?
If you are happy with *NIX then don't change. I guess if you have seen both worlds then you can make decision on your own and don't need me to help you make decision.
What is exactly your problem again?
My problem is MS stooges that post to Linux forums spreading FUD. You really don't have much reading comprehension, do you? My suggestion would be for you to go back to the start of this thread; I explained my stance (a MORAL stance) and specifically stated that a technical argument was a waste of bandwidth; well, you haven't convinced me on my terms, all you've done is wasted the time of people who are completely satisfied with the status quo, and maybe shown a few folks that the use of MS products significantly lowers the reading comprehension of TROLLS.
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quote:
Is Linux a better OS, fuctionally? Yeah, I guess so.
Your words or mine? Go read your private message.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Your words or mine? Go read your private message.
You are a SERIOUS asshole: for all interested parties, this fool just PM'ed a drawing of Bill Gates fucking a Penguin- I'd say that's exactly the moral argument I would expect from a Facist MS user; it sure has convinced me to switch to Windows!! HEIL BILL!!! TODAY RICHMOND TOMORROW, THE WORLD!!
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Look at new thread I started ;)
Now you understand why I sent you that picture.
Are you blushing now? Good. It serves you good.
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Oh, yeah! By the way; TEAR HIM UP BOYS!!!
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He could actually go do something useful, like help those idiots over at http://www.windowsbbs.com/ (http://www.windowsbbs.com/) move their task bar around..
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hey unixsucks, you just don't get it do you? Microsoft sucks morally and monetarily. Take a look at this link (http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/server/howtobuy/pricing/pricingwindows.asp). You don't even have to deal with client access licenses with linux. Damn near everything on that page linux can do for FREE! And you don't have to pay every year for it. But if you would like to pay 1,000 dollars for Win2k server and access for only 5 people (heh heh, just 5 people, god that's crappy), then go ahead and stick with MS. And if you want to deal with the PR department from hell, who has a record of taking their sweet time to put out a fucking patch and bundle it into a service pack to make you pay AGAIN, while everyone else puts out patches in the same day the vuln was publicized, stick with billy. I sincerely hope you like palladium when it comes out, because you are starting to sound like someone who would take the pain from MS and enjoy it. Hope you're saving up for the next version of windows! Before I forget, to answer your question to how linux blows windows away.
#1. Unix is what the internet is based on.
#2. Unix doesn't have the same virus problem that windows has.
#3. My box is much more secure than windows. If I don't want to give users access to a certain hard drive, they wont have it. Can that be done in windows? Not if Word 97 (2000?) is installed.
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Well, I'm still waiting for an answer from this trolling fuck about the first question I had in this thread. Since he seems to be unable to comprehend what I wrote, I'll change it to the form of a challenge; Justify to me the moral standing of Microsoft Inc. If you can make a case for the documented unethical behavior of this company, I'll not only stop using Linux, I'll purchase a copy of Windows XP, and, at my cost send you ALL the Linux related software I have in my posession along with a notarized statement indicating that I will never install any open source Operating System of any kind on any computer I own now, or in the future.
How's that?
BTW; this post is brought to you by Debian 3.0 and Mozlla 1.01
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I'm not sure what you are talking about, what moral standing of Microsoft. What is moral standing of Oracle or Sun. What is the difference?
And since you used word fuck then fuck you too asshole.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
I'm not sure what you are talking about, what moral standing of Microsoft. What is moral standing of Oracle or Sun. What is the difference?
And since you used word fuck then fuck you too asshole.
OK, that's an ansewr; it's a LOUSY answer, an answer I would expect from someone who has the morals of a cat, but it is an answer.
You've proved exactly NOTHING with your response; it DOES tell me that you ARE the amoral troll you appear to be. You can't even comprehend that the corporation that you defend so vigorously uses decit, underhanded business practices, deception and outright lying to maintain a stranglehold on the poor bastards that are forced to use their operating system My suggestion to you would be to kill yourself; you're a mindless pawn of a corporation bent on the total control of it's customers. I'd feel sorry for you, but I just can't; you are your own creation.
On a more pleasant note; would you like to meet somewhere? I'm sure that a face-to-face meeting would be very pleasant, and educational too. I can think of ANY NUMBER of things I'd like to teach you.
BTW; I'm curious, does Bill Gates dick taste like chicken?.
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Which immoral practices do you talk about?
Do you know that first judge sentenced Microsoft to break was later dismissed becouse of his biased opinion about corporation?
Yes they might did something which is not nice but if there would be just UNIX everywhere then I would for sure kill myself. I'm happy that they are here, that I can use GUI for everything I do, that development is a breeze and support for hardware is vast. Yes I'm happy. What the fuck is your problem?
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Which immoral practices do you talk about?
Do you know that first judge sentenced Microsoft to break was later dismissed becouse of his biased opinion about corporation?
Yes they might did something which is not nice but if there would be just UNIX everywhere then I would for sure kill myself. I'm happy that they are here, that I can use GUI for everything I do, that development is a breeze and support for hardware is vast. Yes I'm happy. What the fuck is your problem?
I don't have a problem, I'm completely happy. I think I'm gonna take a vacation in Dallas; you know, see the sights, take in the museums- that kind of stuff.
YOU, on the other hand, might have a problem.
'bye for now, see you soon; love to the family! TA-TA.
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Have you participated in meeting during WTO week? Do you spay paint on peoples fur coats?
Do you advocate not buy Nike becouse they exploit poor people in sweat shops in Malasya?
Do you go and help homeless people build houses?
If you are so moral, then be moral in everything.
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unixhater dude, go help your deciple with his Virus problem, or don't you know how? I am sure your daddy Billy would love it if you help his users have a better eXPerience. Now make yourself useful or shut the hell up.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Have you participated in meeting during WTO week? Do you spay paint on peoples fur coats?
Do you advocate not buy Nike becouse they exploit poor people in sweat shops in Malasya?
Do you go and help homeless people build houses?
If you are so moral, then be moral in everything.
Actually, Yeah, I do contribute to my community when I can; it makes me feel good when I've helped someone out; that's one reason I advocate open source; it free slaves. How do YOU contribiute to society?
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I contribute to society by paying 30% of my salary in taxes which allow poor black people claim insanity and live off wellfare. I also pay social security tax which I can not use in case I would get laid off becouse I'm not a citizen.
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Oh, so not only is he a Microsoft ass kisser, he's a racist.
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It's just if 1/3 of black population in Texas has been to prison (playboy data), I can't after this figures say that it has nothing to do with a color of scin.
I respect black people which are able to raise and become good citizine much more then any white guy. I also dispise white trash people more then black. But I just can't say that I would not care if I would be living in black or white neighborhood. Will you?
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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It depends on if you really mean "white or black" neighborhood or the status of the neighborhood regarding things like crime rate, appearance, school system, etc. Are you infering that all low class neighborhoods are made up of black people (African American if you must) and all high class neighborhoods are made up of other than black?
No, color of skin makes no difference to me. However, I'm not going to say that color of skin has nothing to do with the numbers that have gone to prison, however, where I live they are discovering that a large number of black people were tried and convicted of crimes they did not commit (DNA evidence etc).
So is it "because" they are black that they make up a larger prison percentage, that is, are they genetically destined to crime? Or are there outside factors that have caused this trend (i.e. not being able to get jobs because employers, and people like you are discriminatory, thus making it harder to make a good living and because of this desperate people will do desperate things)?
And thanks for helping your Windows friend with the virus by the way, it was one step in the right direction.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
It's just if 1/3 of black population in Texas has been to prison (playboy data), I can't after this figures say that it has nothing to do with a color of scin.
I respect black people which are able to raise and become good citizine much more then any white guy. I also dispise white trash people more then black. But I just can't say that I would not care if I would be living in black or white neighborhood. Will you?
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: www.unixsucks.com (http://www.unixsucks.com) ]
Well, well; a racist. Hmmmmmm.....you wouldn't be a Chechyin, would you? I've always admired the Russian people in general; I think that from Czarist times, they've been one of the greatest societies in the world, combining the best of western culture and eastern pragmatism. Their contribution to the defeat of Facism in WWII is sadly underrated in the United States. It's too bad that all societes have bad examples of their citizenry, don't you think?
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I'm not chechen as I hate muslim fundametalists. This is only religion which I know which allows suicides (though the call it act of war) as well killing civilians.
So say you are in dark alley in bad neighborhood and you hear steps behind and you see it's a white person or black person. Will it make any difference to you? If it will then how come you judged a person by skin color?
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This as nothing to do with computers you nazi twat (unixsucks) so why don't you go back to your little hole and make love to your cousins.
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No, it would not make a difference to me. If a person came up behind me in a dark alley I would be nervous regardless of the color of their skin. However, if they made a move I would also kill them with my .38 no matter what the color of their skin. I have many friends of many different races.
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Ok, let me reprase the question.
Say you have a daughter (not sure if you have or not) and you have choice if she would get married to white or black guy. Will it make "any difference" to you? I mean "any" at all?
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Here's a hypothetical question for you unixsucks..
Lets say your brain was capable of rational thought, could you take yourself seriously??
Could you?
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quote:
Originally posted by VoidMain:
No, it would not make a difference to me. If a person came up behind me in a dark alley I would be nervous regardless of the color of their skin. However, if they made a move I would also kill them with my .38 no matter what the color of their skin. I have many friends of many different races.
I don't care for guns; but then again, I don't need one. I've never had any problems that are related to racial differences; I treat everyone in the manner they treat me; I always win.
Several years ago, a guy bet me that I wouldn't go into a bar that was in the "bad" area of town (he was a little racist) he bet me $10.00 that I wouldn't order a beer and stay and finish it, so I went into the place (I got a LOT of dirty looks) and went up to the bar and ordered my beer. Te bartender looked at me kinda strange, and gave me a draft. The guy next to me was looking pretty pissed, so I said to him "Man, you ain't gonna believe this; some crazy fuckin' white guy bet me $10.00 I wouldn't come in here and drink a beer!" The guy laughed his ass off, everything was OK then; I hung around for about an hour, went back to the other place, got my 10 bucks, went back to the "tough" bar, and bought a round; I used to have a lot of fun there.
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Tux, say you would stop pretending that you have IQ of Einstein and would comprehend that I came to this country 3 years ago with little English and just my head. I'm makinng 6 figure salary, have a brand new house etc, etc, etc.
Can you imagine yourself going to say Australia and accomlishing something withing 3 years which most Austrailains failed to accomplish for all their lives?
Stop fucking act as a big brainer!
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quote:
Tux, say you would stop pretending that you have IQ of Einstein and would comprehend that I came to this country 3 years ago with little English and just my head.
I am not, is it my fault you dont like the way i talk? Are you stupid?
quote:
I'm makinng 6 figure salary, have a brand new house etc, etc, etc.
I don't give a shit, what do you want a cookie?
quote:
Can you imagine yourself going to say Australia and accomlishing something withing 3 years which most Austrailains failed to accomplish for all their lives?
Probably could, I am intelligent and versatile (http://smile.gif)
quote:
Stop fucking act as a big brainer!
Don't you mean 'Stop fucking acting as a big brainer!' or is that just the way you windows drones speak?
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I know it always end up like that. Bunch of personal insults about my English, my personal views etc.
Go fuck yourself, at least I know 2 languages.
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So do I, it doesnt make you special.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
I know it always end up like that. Bunch of personal insults about my English, my personal views etc.
Go fuck yourself, at least I know 2 languages.
And i only made one point about your spelling/grammar, the rest of what i said was in reply to your insults of me, thank you very much.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Ok, let me reprase the question.
Say you have a daughter (not sure if you have or not) and you have choice if she would get married to white or black guy. Will it make "any difference" to you? I mean "any" at all?
Well, let me tell you a little story. My sister married a black man. They are both attorneys. This guy is 100 times better than any of the loser white boys she had previously dated. They have two great kids and things couldn't be better. Now, what do you think? NO, it wouldn't matter dumb shit! You are one superficial dude, now I see why you like Windows so much. You only see things on the surface. Don't know anything about what's on the inside.
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alright, unixsucks, you are an asshole, im white and my girlfriend is black. i stoped thinking about people as white, black, hispanic, chinese, i see them as human beings, somthing you can't obviosly do. and what will probably bother you more is that some of my friends are jewish, does that make them less of a person to me, NO. FUCK OFF AND DIE.
and about my girlfriend, the only thing my parents are concerned about, are ASSHOLES LIKE YOU.
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Do you suppose he was raised that way in his home country or did he learn this racist behavior in TX? It's a sad world.
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Like I said before, you almost have to feel sorry for him, but he is his own creation. Maybe some day he'll get a clue.
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feel sorry?, ill feel sorry for the paramedics thatal have to put his ass back together
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The odd thing is, I think I might know him. I wonder if he has been in Dallas for the entire 3 years in country or if he moved to Dallas within the last year from another major US city? There are a few things that make me wonder. If he moved there within the last year then I'll have some more questions. unixhater?
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then i feel sorry for you voidmain.
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Well, it would be a little suprising because if it is the guy I knew he was fairly quiet. But he still wasn't great with English. The guy I knew I believe was actually from the Ukraine, not Russia (however, unixhater never said he was from Russia, just that Russian was his first language). He did only know Windows and did not know UNIX, he was only in country for about the time mentioned, and was/is not a US citizen. I believe he was only here on a work visa.
He could very possibly have moved to Dallas relating to a change in the Company I worked for (I made several trips back and forth to Dallas myself). Too many coincidences... If any of these pan out I'll mention his first name and see if we get a match. Then I'll contact my buddies in Dallas and they can handle it from there. (http://smile.gif)
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Do you have something against Australians?
quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
... Can you imagine yourself going to say Australia and accomlishing something withing 3 years which most Austrailains failed to accomplish for all their lives? ...
Do you have any proof that would make anybody, with an IQ in more than single digits, use windows as a server.
Point 1)
If TCO is important compare this data.
In this (hypothetical) situation you need a server solution for 500 workstations. For PC hardware I will look at Dell and I will also look at the Apple solution XServe. The server will perform a variety of tasks from being a mail server for all the workstations and also serve web pages with dynamic content (PHP/ASP/Perl).
The PC hardware:
Dell PowerEdge Tower 4600
- 2X INTEL(R) P4 XEON(TM) PROCESSOR 1800MHZ
- Integrated 10/100/1000 network
- Integrated 10/100 network
- Dual chanel ultra160 scsi
- 512mb RDRAM
- 18GB Ultrawide 160mb/sec HDD
Cost $8,899 AUD
The Mac hardware:
Apple XServe
- Dual 1GHz G4
- 512mb DDR SDRAM
- 60Gig UltraATA133 Drive
- 10/100/1000mbit Ethernet card
- ATI Graphics card
Cost $8,995 AUD
Windows
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Microsoft provided limited information but I managed to conclude that for 500 workstations you would need to spend nearly $80,000 in licensing fees for a 500 client license.
Windows solution without mail = approx. $80,000 USD
Windows solution with mail = approx. $114199 USD
Linux
-----
Since Linux is free and can have as many clients as you can connect. Linux comes with Apache and mail server software leaving this out of the TCO. Open source is proven reliable and is a significantly better alternative than Microsoft's high cost low return solutions.
Apple XServe
------------
The Apple XServe is a nice rack mount server that has an unlimited client license. The OS is very reliable and has a low TCO compared to windows. Free open source mail server software can be aquired and Apache comes with the XServe out of the box. This is a great server and, while slightly more expensive than the Linux solution, is slightly better value - as OS X server is of more value than linux.
As you can see the Apple XServe and Linux Dell box are the clear winners. Microsoft's harsh licensing scheme (soon to change for the worse) is not good for anyone.
Point 2)
If you think portability is important - then why support the biggest mutilator of standards. Microsoft has single handedly changed standards to create enormous levels of incompatibilty. Two examples are Microsoft Java Virtual Machine - a "Microsoftified" version of the Sun Java Virtual Machine and IE HTML - which only works properly on Microsoft produts. I could go on for hours about how many standards have been broken by Microsoft but http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Microsoft+standards+%2Bsun (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Microsoft+standards+%2Bsun) should be all you need.
Point 3)
If you want to win over people to any side the worst way to do it is to go in and say whatever they like sucks. Your online name doesn't prove anything but your underlying want do disrupt this forum with pro Microsoft messages. This is trolling and is unwanted anywhere and will get you nowhere fast.
I think I will leave it here but please consider that you are, in fact, wrong - not us.
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It seems to me that the www.unixsucks.com (http://www.unixsucks.com) "is" an actual Microsoft employee, and he/she/it is just fishing for information that you are readily providing to he/she/it. If memory serves, "Ford" used to have his people go out to all of the junk yards, and find out which parts broke down the most, and then of course they would make sure that those parts "would" break down continually after that. Microsoft does exactly the same thing to keep their company thriving (Constant Problems, and Updates). For example, I purchased a computer with Windoze 98 SE already installed, and of course I had to reformat my hard drive one fine day due to a problem with Windows, and after 3 days of trying in vain to get it to reformat, I contacted an experienced friend of mine, and he told me that I needed the Windows 98 SE disk. I freaked, and said that I "did" have it, and that everything came with my computer...."Right?????" "WRONG!!!!!!" The disk that I had was an "Upgrade Disk!!!!!!!!!!!!" So, my friend brought over his disk, and helped me to reformat my computer. What a piss off, and soooo typical of Microsoft! This www.unixsucks.com (http://www.unixsucks.com) person is trying to find out as much information about why/how their product is inferior, and will use that information against the entire Linux community. The moment that you discover that any person is continually pumping for more, and more information, even though the questions have been answered, then just don't respond anymore. I will soon be Microsoft free, and you know what? I'll be very, very glad to be rid of this buggy, blue screen of death OS!
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
at least I know 2 languages.
heck that's nothin! i know 4 languages:
English
C++
PHP
HTML (http://smile.gif)
if xp luser really is a spy then why would it even matter? Microsoft KNOWS about these problems such as the brutal prices that no company should be forced to hand out, it would probably be cheaper to just get Linux and have a large training program to get the employees familiar with Linux.
when Windows2000 was going to be released, one of the lead programmers actually said that they were not finished making the product but still it was rushed onto stores as fast as they could get it....typical isn't it.
[ August 26, 2002: Message edited by: Chooco ]
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well I know
C++
openscript (i think thats what its called. we have to use it in school - the other evil called toolbook)
Basic/Vbasic (yeah I know - its shit but I know it)
HTML
some Perl
English
and a language that has two words and this language is dedicated for use on microsoff advocates. these words are off and fuck but not necessarily used in that order :D