Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => Linux and UNIX => Topic started by: www.unixsucks.com on 23 August 2002, 10:40
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You want provide users with secure location to post their files. You want users to be able access files using ACLs through network. (Using Kerberos 5 for authentication and SMB for file sharing)
You want users to have the same desktop settings regardless from which computer they logon to network. (Roaming profiles)
You want also make "Run" command available only to administrators and remove this commmand from menu from the rest of the group. (Separate group policies for admins and users)
You want users to automatically install software from central location when specific extension of file is clicked and software is not available on local machine. (Intellimirrow implementation)
You want all network trafic to be authenticated and encryoted between client machine and file server. (IPsec using PKI)
You don't want to touch users machine to make it happen apart from adding them to AD. (All settings assigned through group policies)
You are also having limited drive space on your file server and you would like to use existing tape library as extension to your file system which can fill up pretty quickly. (Remote storage)
How easy is this to implement for 5000 user network using Linux? Again, no third party sofware (that's what voidMain required for Windows tests).
You want users to be able to read their emails, have calendaring, access to public folders and some other reach GUI features without sending password in clear text. (Outlook, domain authentication).
You want to be able to connect and see what is happening on remote machine if user has a problem (TS implementation in Windows XP)
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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What are you doing back? You haven't answered question number 2 yet...
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Can you explain me term of print queue?
This is something from UNIX world.
Explain me the task rather then possibke implementation.
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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i could set up a system like that probably easy, just send me 5000 pentium 3's and ill build that kind of configureation for you. but i do have one condition, i have to build it in mexico
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Can you explain me technical details how you are going to implement in Linux?
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quote:
You want also make "Run" command available only to administrators and remove this commmand from menu from the rest of the group. (Separate group policies for admins and users)
You are such a Winblows idiot its not funny. This question demonstrates your complete lack of knowledge.
Have you ever even used a non-winblows computer?
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I have a book right here, Red Hat Linux 7.2 Bible unlimited edition from negus. It explains everything you asked for except the run on the start menu, which isn't necessary as you can just disallow programs to users. And linux is secure without that "feature". I can also do it in less than 15 minutes of configuring stuff. Windows, you have to click for hours. clickity click click click for each and every security thing you want disabled. How many times did you click your mouse in group policy editor? I'm sure anywhere between 20-500 times. And outlook didn't really take any configuring for me, I just added a user, set up samba as a pdc, and changed about 2 lines of code and poof. outlook 2000 worked great. of course, you could just take the "easy" route and click 500 times.
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and that would dis-allowe linux, the whole damn thing is made from "third-party" software.GNU/linux is not controlled by anyone, hell, i have my own GNU/linux that i use personally. so just about anything under linux you that is freespeech and freebeer could you use. and it wouldn't be hard at all. i just wouldn't want to put up with 5000 monkeys.
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You don't know what a print queue is? As in, something that shows up on your server, has a little printer ICON on it in explorer when you are browsing the resources of your server from a client and when you double click on it will select the appropriate printer driver and allow you to print to it? Or you can click Start->Run and type the UNC name:
\\LAME2KSERVER\PRINTERNAME
and it will configure a printer to print to the print queue that is set up on your server for that name?
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I have been talking about all Linux implementation. VoidMain specifically made all hist tests with pure OS.
Also all answers about that I would do in 15 minutes and of the same nature is pretty weak.
Please give me specifics about each of the steps.
Remember users needs GUI. To remove Run from possibilities, I would another one - "you want users to run only program X and you want them from changing desktop or adding printers to the system"
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VoidMain you are talking about implementation rather the task. I understand where you are going becouse in UNIX you have separate physical file in spool which you don't have in Windows (at least not in expected format). Again, it has nothing to with a task. If you need users documents to be converted to some other format then you write a program, designate directory, ask people to put files there and you are done.
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And I'll give you the technical details of how I do it in Linux but basically the scenerio is to have what looks like a normal shared printer on your server, say using the color laserjet drivers. However, when a user connects to this printer and sends a print job to it, instead of going down the hall to pick up their printed output the get an email from their Exchange server in Outlook containing an attachment which is a PDF file and happens to look exactly like would have printed out on paper.
You tell me how you're going to do that, then I will tell you how I would/do do it.
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I actually do it even without color printers etc. I would designate mailbox in Exchange, would run a script in Exchange on message arrival, would convert document and send it back.
It's not a theory, I already did it. I was receving Word documents from our supplier, I was stripping document, converting it to HTML and posting to web sites.
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The PDF thing I am talking about is for Windows clients, not UNIX/Linux clients. In my example I will make my server appear on the network as an NT Server, and a member of the NT domain. The clients won't know that it's not an NT server. They just print to the shared printer and get a message back in outlook with a PDF attachment. If I want to do this in Windows how would I do it?
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Users get their GUI stuff, but you aren't talking about users you are talking about server perspectives. And an admin (at least a good one) does not need a gui system to work with. If that is why you are against linux then your a bigger idiot than i thought. And the print que thing, you honestly dont know what it is? There is no printer (well, not a lot) that can print 2000 things at once, they get printed in order from a que... Even a winblows person should know about this. I'm afraid you just lost all respect I ever had, and will no longer reply to your posts. Try http://windowsbbs.com (http://windowsbbs.com) and go worship there, this is a anti-windows place.
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I know what printer queue is. Don't call me an idiot. The reason why I asked is that I was pretty sure that task which voidMain was trying to accomplish has nothing to do with what he is proposing.
And I don't care if you respect me or not.
And yes we are talking about users, that's where Linux is being pushed as well is not it?
And stop bashing Microsoft if you are using Microsoft technologies in Samba.
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
I actually do it even without color printers etc. I would designate mailbox in Exchange, would run a script in Exchange on message arrival, would convert document and send it back.
It's not a theory, I already did it. I was receving Word documents from our supplier, I was stripping document, converting it to HTML and posting to web sites.
Give me details. Tell me "exactly". And I'm not talking about only Word documents. I'm talking any kind of documents from any application (Visio, Autocad, Powerpoint, Excel, etc).
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but the first message of this topic said nothing about what a user is capable of doing, it's what a admin is capable of doing.
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Do you need details how to setup Exchange server agent on Mailbox? How to write program which would convert document? How to send message back?
And yes I would tell you ahead of time then I would need 3d party tool to convert to PDF, it's propriatary format.
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To Stryker.
yes you are admin and you have users. It's always the case. That's why you are usually admin - to serve business needs and that means people.
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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wouldnt you need ghostscript for windows... but of course that doesnt come with the OS.
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what is ghostscript?
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its an (opensource?) application tthat is a postscript and PDF language interpreter.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Do you need details how to setup Exchange server agent on Mailbox? How to write program which would convert document? How to send message back?
And yes I would tell you ahead of time then I would need 3d party tool to convert to PDF, it's propriatary format.
Yes everything. Hell, I'll even let you change the rules and not go through a print queue (although that's what I am going to do), however it's going to be one hell of a program you are going to write if you are going to be able to convert every single type of document from every single application written to run on a Microsoft operating system. And yes, I'll even let you get a 3rd party tool as long as you mention the cost and where you get it from. I already have all of the conversion tools needed included with my OS.
Let's get it on....
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quote:
Originally posted by Master of Reality / Bob:
wouldnt you need ghostscript for windows... but of course that doesnt come with the OS.
Don't give him any hints dammit! He's Mr Windows administrator, he doesn't need any help!
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That can be done. I don't want to give you step by step instructions as it would too much time. Just a quick point where to look Outlook/Tools/Options/Advanced Options/Add In Manager/Server Scripting. That's where you designate scripts. You can use VBScript to like server side code and use 3d party COM component to convert incoming documents.
And I just run through properties of my printer and found that there is Print Processor selector which pretty much tells me that I can designate what needs to be done with incoming document for printing.
And yes Windows does not come with that feature but I would not consider this task a thing which 90% of businesses need and even if they would need it, it still can be done. Tasks which I asked you to accomplish in Linux are usual business needs.
Now I got it. THere is a ghostscript which converts postscript to PDF. So it is in fact 3d party software and you did not write it. So why you claiming it to be your child?
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: www.unixsucks.com (http://www.unixsucks.com) ]
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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is your 3rd party software free?... just wonderin'
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So do it, and tell me how you did it. I want to see your code. And 90% of businesses don't know that they need something like this until they have it, then they can't live without it. But that's not the point. The point was you asked me to point out things that Linux can do that Windows can't. So far you've already had to change the rules and you don't want to use a print queue and I have accepted that. I'm letting you be creative, something you are probably not used to.
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Read my edited post. yes you can. And there is ghostcript for Windows. Why you are trying to fool me? It's not your program and you did not write it.
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ghostscript comes with the Linux OS. And the free software community isnt biased to one system so of course there is a version for windows.
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Master of Reality / Bob ]
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Now I got it. THere is a ghostscript which converts postscript to PDF. So it is in fact 3d party software and you did not write it. So why you claiming it to be your child?
Ghostscript comes with every Linux distro dude, I never said I wrote Ghostscript. I did write an *extremely* small shell script that captures incoming print jobs to the print queue (the one that looks like a Color LaserJet on a Windows NT server), convert it to PDF, email the attachment back to the user with the first page of the document showing up as text in the message body. All automatically.
Now that you have *many* hints. How are you going to do this in Windows?
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How important is that it comes with OS? It's a tiny download.
If the point was that Windows does not come with ghostscript and Linux does then you made it. I don't really see how it make Linux any better compared with Windows. Windows comes with print certificate server, sniffer, print services for MAC, file sharing for Mac, does Linux?
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I'll even let you download Ghostscript. This little project will allow you to do anything you want as long as you meet the criteria. I just want to know how you would do it. And to answer your questions: yes, yes, yes, yes. And support for Netware, Windows, other UNIX systems, etc, etc, etc...
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Here is how it is done
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/redmon/en/redmon.htm#274 (http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/redmon/en/redmon.htm#274)
Listen, this is new to me and it'll take time for me to learn but as of now I can see that it can be done. If you talking about how would identify people then I guess output which is generated by that program is owner by owner of print job which can be extracted by Script, then you query AD for that person, find his email address and send it back.
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of course you'd add to the NT domain logon script to have this queue automatically connected when the users log in. SO that no work will be required by the user to be given this new ability.
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This will solve only half of the problem as results are not emailed back.
So which part of the whole scenario is not possible to implement on Windows? Email sending part?
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Hey, that's a pretty good find! And a good start! I'll even help you out a little with the email thing. Assume that the email addresses on the exchange server match the domain IDs. i.e. [email protected]
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That's not fair, let's do it that username does not match email address name. Was it your UNIX implementation?
Now tell me if resulting document is owned by user submitted print document? I don't want to expiriment with that thin in order just to find it out.
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Huh? I'm trying to make it easy on you. You can pick up the ID of the user sending the print job on your server. Say your secretary's name and logon ID is "sally". Sally is sitting on her Windows 2000 workstation and happens to be working in Autocad, no wait, Sally is a secretary and doesn't know how to use Autocad, she's using Word.
Sally prints her word document to your PDF print queue, which magically within a few seconds (plus Exchange virus scanner delay added) comes back to her in her Exchange mailbox in the form of a PDF attachment addressed to "[email protected]".
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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So in your implementation did you actually assumed logon name = email address?
And is file is owner by secretary or not?
And which part exactly makes you think that it can not be done. I assume you tried or thought about it and found out that it's impossible.
I don't want to write the whole program just for the sake of it. Give me part which would not work in Windows enviroment.
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X11, with Terminal Services windows can serve out desktops and many people can use apps on the system at the same time (not without a GUI mind you). But this is something that has been part of Xwindows/UNIX for as long as I have been in it (well over 10 years).
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
So in your implementation did you actually assumed logon name = email address?
And is file is owner by secretary or not?
And which part exactly makes you think that it can not be done. I assume you tried or thought about it and found out that it's impossible.
I don't want to write the whole program just for the sake of it. Give me part which would not work in Windows enviroment.
Yes, logon name = email address. And I never said it couldn't be done in Windows, anything can be done if you are a programmer and you can eventually cut down a redwood tree with a pocket knife. I just want to know how you would do this simple task. Since I know both Windows and UNIX, I picked the easiest, most inexpensive, least crash prone way of doing it. It's kinda the point I am trying to get across to you. You probably could have learned a lot of UNIX in the amount of time you've spent spinning your wheels on this one...
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To fucking idiot BOB.
NO you can't run dumb terminals with Windows at backend. You can run dumb old machines with Terminal Services installed and provide people with rich gui interface. How often for business processed do you need to provide user with blinking terminal window? yes, I agree that's another thing which Linux can do which Windows can't without additional software.
As for Apache. By default user threads launched by inetinfo.exe are run either under authenticated user ISR_MACHINE name or authenticated user, if you choose to run it out of process then it starts mtx.exe which runs un IWAM_MACHINE account. Now security and Apache. Why on earth apache discloses by default it's version in HTTP header. I don't even need to check for exploits, I just parse header and know if system vulnerable or not.
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"you want users to run only program Y and you want them from changing desktop or adding printers to the system"
Adding printers is a root task (like it bloody well SHOULD BE), so unix/linux does this automatically. Are you serious?
You want users to run only program Y in linux and not change the desktop? Fine. Use XDM. Edit the xinit scripts so that after login, X-Windows is started and program Y is started using the maximum geometry, without a window manager.
Ctrl-Alt-Backspace kills the X-Windows session.
If the program is non-GUI, just make it their shell.
There are a lot of other methods too but what's the point of explaining them to you? You are just another loser troll.
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To void.
Please explain what you gonna do if it would not be a case where username = email address?
And I thought it was reason for your post - to show that there is something which Linux can do and Windows can't. If it possible to do then what is point?
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To Brian. Stop insulting me fucking asshole.
The way you implement it is called "through the ass". So what if you want user run programs 2,3,5 all requiring GUI.
So how do you allow user to add/delete printer on his own if it's root task?
Remember it's 5000 desktops.
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
To void.
Please explain what you gonna do if it would not be a case where username = email address?
And I thought it was reason for your post - to show that there is something which Linux can do and Windows can't. If it possible to do then what is point?
The point is, it took about 5 minutes to do this solution in Linux and you still haven't given me exact details of how you would do it. And shit, you paid all that money for that stuff, why are you having such a hard time?
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Use telnet serverwhich comes with Windows 2000 and users get their shell accounts.
What is the problem here again?
And why it's needed? Do you often see people in real world (not admin) which need shell accounts?
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Use telnet serverwhich comes with Windows 2000 and users get their shell accounts.
What is the problem here again?
And why it's needed? Do you often see people in real world (not admin) which need shell accounts?
Hah hah hah hah!!! Have you ever used telnetd in Windows? It's pretty damn difficult to do *anything* in Windows from a shell since everything depends on a GUI. You are right. telnetd in Windows is as useless as tits on a boar.
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To void.
I have done much more complicated projects then that.
My last project was creating program which would notify user about their account expiration. I have queired AD using ADSI to get days before expiration, extracted users SID, made LDAP query to Exchange server to find user's email address, create mail message using XSL and XML document, send email, dump result in XML document.
Does not it sounds a little bit more complicated? I can send you source code if you need. I CAN DO IT. One more time, I CAN DO IT. And it would not take me hours. If you don't beleive me then see a couple of my projects on www.artisticcheese.com, (http://www.artisticcheese.com,) I'm sure you would not but still.
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I know shell in Windows is not as powerfull as in UNIX. What would you expect from GUI based OS.
BUT! You can do almost all administrative tasks through shell. You can manage users, connect to printers, share files, manage DNS server and bunch of other stuff. But it's not needed as I have TS. I can do anything I want through GUI remotely. This thing works and works well.
Anyway, I'm out of here. Nobody answered my original questions, there were weak attempts but they did not accomplish required goals.
Here is last thing which you might have an answer to.
So you have 2 plates on one plate is Linux
- Powerfull
- Fast
- Has a tons of free programs for all business needs and they are free
- Reliable
- Secure
- Easy to use (some people here claim it)
- Everybody loves society which create it
- And it's FREE!!
Other plate Windows
- Weak, bad perfomance
- Has tons of programs but they cost money
- Unreliable
- Insecure
- Company which produces it is hated
- Easy to use
- Costs lots of money
How is that possible that not all people using Linux by now? As far as I can see, all pluses for Linux and majority of minuses for Windows.
Where I'm wrong?
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
To void.
I have done much more complicated projects then that.
My last project was creating program which would notify user about their account expiration. I have queired AD using ADSI to get days before expiration, extracted users SID, made LDAP query to Exchange server to find user's email address, create mail message using XSL and XML document, send email, dump result in XML document.
Does not it sounds a little bit more complicated? I can send you source code if you need. I CAN DO IT. One more time, I CAN DO IT. And it would not take me hours. If you don't beleive me then see a couple of my projects on www.artisticcheese.com, (http://www.artisticcheese.com,) I'm sure you would not but still.
No, this is baby stuff and it is stuff I do on a daily basis. And you might as well give it up, you haven't convinced one person of anything, other than you are wasting our time (and I assume yours), and you don't seem to have one clue about UNIX. Speaking of which, you mentioned your only taste of UNIX was managing a DNS server. What flavor/version of UNIX and what version of DNS/BIND is it running? And more importantly why aren't you using MS-DNS? Uh, maybe because it SUCKS? MS-DNS has to be buggier than WindowsME.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
How is that possible that not all people using Linux by now? As far as I can see, all pluses for Linux and majority of minuses for Windows.
Where I'm wrong?
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: www.unixsucks.com (http://www.unixsucks.com) ]
marketing, lobbying, FUD tactics and the fact that a lot of people think that linux is hard to use (which it is not, it's just different)
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And like I said unixhater, you better start learning Linux soon or you're going to be flippin' burgers. Just today another one of Bill's biggest customers is about to drop him like a flaming bag of pooh:
http://www.itnews.com.au/story.cfm?ID=10596 (http://www.itnews.com.au/story.cfm?ID=10596)
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I'll tell you "how to do it."
Instead of shoving your whole head up Bill's ass, do it slow, and subtley. That way, it feels good for him, feels good for you, and you'll have something better to do with your time instead of wasting it here by posting your redundant, rudimentary, nonsense.
Boom Bye Bye.....pussy-clot...
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So it's a bunch of FUD which allows microsoft to be where they are now?
What does that mean. Don't you think by this time there is mo FUSS about Linux/*NIX then Windows? I have talked to some people who are really not into computers and seems to me they actually got a lot of *NIX propaganda in their heads. Looks at your own thereads about how people has not idea what do with a computer and would still install Linux. So I don't really see how marketing allows Microsoft to be a leader.
To Void. We use in production enviroment what we have to use and what is forced from above. It's BIND 8 (I suppose) running on Solaris. Here is the problems I have with it: I have to have a local account on that machine to be able to properly administer it. All admins are sharing root password. I can not assign permissions to individual records. I can not purge purge from cache only specific records, I have to purge the whole goddamn cache.
But it walks well, I admit it. It's kinda pain in ass but it works. By the way, it's 6 a.m. here and I was just waked up by our company's help desk becouse of DNS issues. Seems to me that our internal DNS servers are fucked up. So they are calling now *NIX guru to fix it. I'm not 100% positive that it's DNS issue (so it seems to be at this point) but it either that or firewall which both run UNIX and which are fucked up as of now. So *NIX based systems never fucked up?
So what was your point again? That it was my choice? No (I run Win2000 DNS as a primary for www.unixsucks.com). (http://www.unixsucks.com).) Don't you use Exchange over there as well?
By the way, what is preferred mail scenarion solutoin for Linux based network. What do you run on server, how people read email, what authentication is used? Say you have 20 users network.
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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Sendmail/IMAP works well, and if you want encrypted traffic use IMAPS, no need for Exchange. You can use POP instead of IMAP but I like having all of my message folders on the server (like Exchange). All Linux distros come with these. Not only can all UNIX mail clients use this server, you can even use Outlook and Outlook Express in Windows to read your mail on your UNIX/Linux server.
There are other products available that provide similar functionality to Exchange, some free, some not. IMAP suits my partners and I just fine for our side business (and all of the other small business that we host for).
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So where do you authenticate?
On local email server? Everybody has it's own account there?
How people logon to network or they don't?
Do they have some features which would restrict them to send to specific people inside organisation, to give access to local mailbox to other people, to have rich calendaring and meeting support?
About that link you sent, this quote says it's all. Another brain washed CIO. To tell you the truth i would like to see if they would be able to pull it off.
quote:
Smith has spoken publicly on a number of occasion about his preference for open standards and systems and listed Sun boss Scott McNealy as his most admired IT figure in a recent magazine interview.
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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Hey unixsucks, I've been watching your little debate for a few days now and I've noticed that you're an educated fellow. What bothers me though is your persistence in coming back to the forums again and again just to try and prove that in Linux or *NIX you can't do something as easily as in Windows. Maybe you're right or maybe you're wrong, who knows? All I know is that I can't judge an OS purely by its performance on some highly specialized tasks as the ones you mention here. So far my judgement on Linux included the overall performance of the specific OS against Windows and by overall performance I mean the reliability, the security, the robustness of Linux.
I can't argue with you, and I don't suppose anyone can, that Windows is easier to use, supports more apps, more hardware etc etc. But is that all? Can you sacrifice the reliability of your system in the name of "ease of use"? I know I wouldn't!
Furthermore, don't forget that GNU/Linux is the result of an effort made by millions of programmers around the world, who work mostly in their free time compared to M$, a tightly-sealed major corporation that focus their work only on profit and the mistreatment of their customers.
I can't say that I don't use windows anymore as I have to run some apps designed for Windows only. But I use Linux as well and am trying to learn as much as I can about it and that at least gives me the pleasure of freedom of choice.
Clearly, you have misinterpreted the meaning of these forums and you're not the only one, believe me.The point is that you won't find any immature Windows hater here with no arguments. As you have already figured out for yourself most of the people here have very strong arguments to support their case. So do I and I'm just a computer illiterate compared to most of the people here.
Anyway, good luck in trying to learn a few things more about Linux and *NIX in general. Perhaps, it will help you more in your work than you ever imagined and make your life easier ;)
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I still haven't had my question answered by unixsucks. How many times did you have to click your mouse, between the time you stuck your cd in to install the damned server, and the time it was fully operational (which would include every one of your little rants that you've mentioned)? And you have 5000 users you say...
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Thanks to pantso for good message. I got it. And I would tell exactly why I'm here, you said that majority of people here are educated folks and made their choice by knowing equally well both sides of the story. Look for next message in the thread where Stryker has little understanding about Windows and trying to say to me that you can not image copy Windows and you need to have a lot of clicks to make group policy.
Sryker, you can image copy windows and it's actually being used in my company (so I'm opposed to that). Moreover .NET server would be able to be installed using RIS services (if you don't know what is that then look it up). You can also boot from floppy connect to network and install Windows from network (it's been supported since WinNT 4). As far as client systems are corncerned then I would create RIS server, create Windows 2000 or XP image there and next time client boots it would be able to install OS directly from network WITHOUT USER INTERVENTION.
As far GPO is cornerned, yes you have to click, in UNIX you don't click becouse you don't have GPO, so how can you compare?
So you were implying that it can not be done, now seen that it can be done what is next?
About reliability. Majority of my servers are getting rebooted only for service packs. Last time I checked uptime on my SQL machine it was 179 days if I would not install OS services packs on that machine then it would be actually 1 year and 4 month, there were no crashes or anything else which affects it. The same goes for HTTP and FTP servers, they have uptimes in months and they are rebooted as well for hotfixes only. Reliability of windows is one of the things which people misunderstand the most and primarily judged by their experience with 9x systems and some bloated Windows installations when you have 40 different programs running on your machine which did not come with it which potentially replace system file, run under high priority and do all other nasty shit.
Also all what I mentioned are not specialized tasks, this is very common business requirement. Automatic installation of sofware, security on desktop, file system expansion, common desktop envirimont. Which of this tasks you think is not common?
And I'm not opposing to UNIX either. I would guess bind is still the fastest DNS server and I would use it if I would have a spare computer for external queries (I still would use Windows for AD DNS updates etc though). I like Linux becouse it's free as well. I'm opposing to glorifing this OS and selling it without looking at all sides of the story which clearly a lot of folks here do.
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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I wasn't talking about the client computers at all, i was refering to the server. And I dont recall ever saying anything about image copying... You need to inspect messages a little more before you go on about harassing them. And I know a hell of a lot about windows, and no I do not want to go into a competition over it. I was forced to administer a windows network for years, ever since nt4 was first release, I was into unix before that, and now I'm back into unix. I've had my fair experience in both subjects. Windows is not evil and useless. It has it's good points. But you are refusing to accept any counter arguement ever handed to you on this forum. I suppose I got a little off track with the clicking thing, but I do recall that driving me crazy with the policy editors poledit and gpedit. And no, linux doesn't have it, and linux doesn't need it either. Although I'm sure it's a nice feature and will be added in some day. And I'm still not sure why you cling onto windows so much. What is the main reason you are staying in windows? because it's easier? because it looks better (as your comments about the gui earlier)? Because it you can disable a run button? because you have a schedule on outlook? All of these things can be implemented into linux if you'd like, but I doubt you'd be willing to accept *nix even if it did have all of these features. Your just here for shits and giggles watching us recoil at your every statement.
And I am aware of the remote installation windows has, i used it myself for windows 2000. But what the hell does that have to do with anything I said. I never said anything at all about it and you go off saying how much I said it wasn't possible? I wouldn't bother replying to this as I likely won't respond. try http://windowsbbs.com (http://windowsbbs.com)
*Does this guy work for microsoft or something?*
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Or now you are all apologetic and saying that Widows has good points.
Why I prefer Windows over Linux is becouse of ease of administration. That's pretty much it. I'm admin and laziness drives progress. I can spend extra time I spend without learning vi to learn .NET.
So for starting UNIX and Windows admin. UNIX admin has whole days being explained how to use passwd and shadow file, what all options are, how to use vi and all this 5 stroke codes to make anything happen. 2-3 days wasted before he is proficient. Here is Windows admin, shown where in AD you have all use properties, explain that if he does not understand some of the checkmarks there then right click and use help (as opposed to dig through tons of man pages). So the same task Windows admin accomplished in 1 day and UNIX in 3 days. What Windows admin does in extra 2 days? He learns how to configure automatical installation of client machine, GPOs etc etc etc. He is already ahead on learning curve.
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So far what I got out of that was:
I don't know how to administer linux properly, therfore nobody else will and it will take 3 times longer.
Sure linux gets off to a slower start than windows, that's because it's so much more powerfull and can do a lot more. You have to take the time to learn it, and for the lazy they see learning as a flaw and just turn the other direction.
[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Stryker ]
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Sure windows has it's good points. It can be maintained by a 6 year old, and it's less secure, but hey, who cares huh?
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Look Mr unixsucks dude. If you love Windows so much and want to proclaim how it's so superior then why don't you go help that dude in the other thread with his little virus problem and make yourself useful? Would be a hell of a lot more productive than sitting here trying to make points to people who know better.
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because he's full of hot air, that's why.
is this cunt just windows xp user? anybody know?
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i never recalled xpuser being a racist, this asscunt is one though
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The writing styles are completely different. I would be extremely surprised if they are the same person. I believe XP Luser was his gatesness in the flesh.
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quote:
Originally posted by choasforages:
i never recalled xpuser being a racist, this asscunt is one though
werent you here when the FLaming bag of shit or mickey came. Those guys were both XP Luser. Ya know, the guys who called Linux Black Ultra gay and posted gay porno.
But there is no way in hell this is XP Luser, it might be his cousin. XP Luser does live just a little out of Dallas Texas, and this guy claims to live in Dallas.