Stop Microsoft
Miscellaneous => Applications => Topic started by: _kill__bill on 10 January 2006, 20:20
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I've started working on an alternative to Microshit(c)bs(r)tm's C#.NET
I don't want to go through the huge project if there's already one out.
My current name for it is Theta, and it is mostly a C++-like language. Some Java, C, Perl, LISP and .NET stuff in it, too. The preprocessor is totally redesigned :), so no more makefiles (do it all in the preproc). I decided to make it for the gcc, and maybe make a self-compiler.
It will allow interpreting, JIC, compiling, and Java bytecode. :eek: Maybe a couple others.
Any ideas, questions and stuff will occur in this forum until I find a good free webhost ;).
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You can pull all that shit out of your ass, but not a webhost?
I demand a refund!!
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What license is this thing gonna be?
What exactly is special about this new language?
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License: BSD
Specialness: Various improvements to the C++ preprocessor, some optimizations, and the scripting ability. Plus the .NET-style framework, without the .NET shit.
I can't get a webhost because I'm functioning behind a hyper-paranoid filter. It even blocks opengl.org :eek: ! Forget any webhosts I can Google.
Any reccomended but virtually unknown webhosts? One that DOESN'T run Winshit?
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How are you gonna go about this? Fork the g++ code or start from scratch or what?
How long do you rekon it'll be before it's usable?
Why not use Savannah (http://sv.gnu.org/) or sourceforge (http://sf.net) for hosting/everything?
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I've started working on an alternative to Microshit(c)bs(r)tm's C#.NET
I don't want to go through the huge project if there's already one out.
Then I'd highly suggest you check out Miguel de Icaza's Mono Project (http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page). It's relatively mature, usable, and will be included in Fedora Core 5 (http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/?p=159).
GPL/lgpl/X11 licencing though, not BSD licencing.
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Specialness: Various improvements to the C++ preprocessor, some optimizations, and the scripting ability. Plus the .NET-style framework, without the .NET shit.
So you have C++ with a nice preprocessor. That's not a new language, that's a new compiler. Optomizatons are a compiler thing too. You don't have anything other then some new C++ libs and a nice compiler.
Why not just use perl for scripting? Why waste time doing something that's already done?
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I'm impressed by your high goals
So how exactly is this an alternative? Whats so bad about C# .NET?
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Becau$e it$ MICR0$HAFT TH
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Becau$e it$ MICR0$HAFT TH
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http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060113-5979.html
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If you want webhosting, you can email me.
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Sorry it took so long to get back to you all.
I will start the project in Sourceforge, as it is free, anti-Microsoft, and free:)
It's better than C# because even if there are free implementations, the standards are controlled by :fu: Microshit, and you know we can trust them with it.:rolleyes:
My plan is to make a GNU compiler from g++, but then make a 1-pass compiler and an interpreter in Theta itself. Maybe a couple translators (C to Theta, bash to Theta, Java to Theta, etc.).
The language will be fairly Perl-like in interpreter mode, but a little more low-level (actual bits, if u want), and a much more multilingual environment.
As an example, you could do a #le espanol and use si for true, and so on. #le deutch for German, etc. I expect this makes it a hell of a lot easier for international programmers. Even if it just does a grep '//esta//exists', it makes it a lot better in non-English-speaking countries. Japanese, Arabic and the ilk will be tricky, but it'll solve itself (i hope).
The license will be a bit of BSD with some copyleft: you can distribute a binary only, with no open source, but to claim it is Theta (or near-Theta) you must submit the source for review and it has to pass several tests to make sure it has no vendor extensions. This way Microsoft can use and distribute it but not :fu: it over like they tried with Java. Also no spyware.
The scripting will in all likelyhood be underused. I would actually use Perl for that, but testing a Theta program or as a beginner I would probably use Theta. I hate having to g++ foo.c every time I forgot a semicolon or period
If I dissappear off the face of the Earth again, I'm in Delaware for a robotics competition for the weekend.
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It's better than C# because even if there are free implementations, the standards are controlled by Microshit, and you know we can trust them with it.
There are free implementations of UNIX, but SCO owns the trademark, does that mean that all unix systems are shit?
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An ex-member here (Kintaro) had ALOT of good things to say about C#. Some of it's features are innovative, and hadn't been done before. I don't know the specifics off the top of my head, but would you be incorperating these features into Theta?
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I've used .Net a bit and I haven't found anything inovative about it in comparision to java. java itself isn't very innovative either, just another imperative language with a c++ syntax and inbuilt object handling. with each new release they seem to add a bit more C++ because they realise there was a point in having it (eg enums , "generics" aka templates)
Everything in .Net could have been done with C++.
The ,Net IDE on the other hand is the best in the world for coding effieciency. .Net dramatically reduces coding time. It is the fastest way of building a gui based application.
Its not the language that attracts the industry its the tools and api and most importantly the improved productivity.
The next language I hope becomes industry standard is D. The best of C++ as well as the code effiecency of modern OO languages. but it probably wont happen because the changes are quite minor and more a fancy than anything else.
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There are free implementations of UNIX, but SCO owns the trademark, does that mean that all unix systems are shit?
Dammit, another one who has been listening to and believing SCO's crap instead of researching it.
SCO does not own the trademark to UNIX. SCO does not "own the Unix operating system" as they like to say.
The UNIX trademark is owned by the Open Group. When Novell got out of the Unix business, they sold the business aspect, OpenServer, and Unixware to the Santa Cruz Operation. If the Santa Cruz Operation licenced System V code, 100% of the royalties were to be paid back to Novell, and Novell would remitt 5% back to Santa Cruz Operation as an administrative fee.
Novell specifically and explicitly retained all copyrights. There has been no transfer of copyright agreement between Novell and Santa Cruz Operation (which is now called Tarantella) and the company which calls itself SCO (the letters of which stand for nothing), which used to be a big linux vendor called Caldera.
Novell turned the specs and trademark over to the Open Group.
There are no "free implementatins of UNIX," except maybe for OpenSolaris (not sure about that one) which doesn't fully exist yet.
Linux is not UNIX. OSX is not UNIX. FreeBSD isn't even UNIX. For something to be UNIX, it must meet the standards of the Open Group. It must be submitted for a lengthy and expensive review process by the Open Group. It does not have to have any code base requirements to do this. There is at least one official UNIX which was written from scratch and has no System V code in it at all.
For some reason, the Open Group has allowed SCO to run around saying they own everything in the world with the only action taken being a couple of letters backed by no lawsuits.
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I still don't understand what this is supposed to accomplish beyond the Mono project.
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The Mono project looks intresting. However, Microsoft still has de facto control of the C# and .NET standards, even if they submitted it to ECMA. Since .NET was designed for Winshit, it will not ever be 100% reliable on *ix|*BSD systems.
Besides, there are still some deficiencies in the language. Nice IDE, though. I'll have to make one for Theta :(
Under no circumstances will I allow Microshit to maintain control of the languages. We need to hit them on all fronts, all at once. I'm personally targeting C# and the semi-MS-controlled C++. (yes, the C++ language is almost all free, but many of the libraries for the Windows platform are completely f---ed up by them)
Theta will handle all the deficiencies in C++ / C# while freeing them from enemy control.
I'd finish the point I'm making, but my battery is about to go.
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When will you register the SF project and/or start coding? Once you have some (nice) code written it might be easier to attract developers.
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I don't think you will find many developers for this...it really seems like a waste of time. I don't think you need to build a new language to hijack the .Net framework. The language D cleans up C++ and C# already.
Microsoft has control because OSS don't care because you're average OSS professional programmer prefers C/ C++ and doesn't have to put up with mircosofts shit api's. The reason they are so shit is because win95 was built when MS didn't know about C++ and OO programming. They have been adding more C++ into their new libraries as they go and made a bit of a hash of it.
on the other hand from my limited knowledge the linux ones are all C and consistently structured.
I can understand if you're doing this for intellectural investigation but to say you're targeting the microsoft .Net to wrestle MS's control over is just ....
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It may be a slight waste of time, but D doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Besides, MS has control of the OS market (right now, at least). If you want your software to be used except by the fringe, it needs to support Winshit. The way to go is to support Win32 and Linux, so switching is easier. Theta theoretically will compile the same source on every platform. Hopefully it will do better at that than C++.
Anyways, Theta now has a website/host/whatever at sourceforge as theta-language.
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C++ compiles perfectly on both platforms.
Its not the language but the API's that have to be multiplatform. And you can make good multiplatform programs with C++: the gimp, firefox, gaim etc
So um how is theta supposed to use the .NET api? are you going to rewrite it for linux? Use the mono project?
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i think he just wants to copy .NET CLR (and use his own language copied from C++/C#/Java)... which is copied from Java JRE.... so its going to be a copy of a copy?
This didnt really mean to sound so condescending, but there is already the mono implementation of the .NET framework, there is already Java for multiplatform support.
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It uses something like the .NET platform, not the actual Microsoft system.
Yes, C++ compiles perfectly on everything. It's the API's that are screwed beyond belief.