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Operating Systems => Not Quite Mainstream OSes => Topic started by: _kill__bill on 14 February 2006, 21:33

Title: What was BeOS?
Post by: _kill__bill on 14 February 2006, 21:33: I got intrested in what the :beos: smiley is about, and wikipediaed BeOS.

My question is, what was so great about it?
Simple GUI: wm2, twm, mwm or even fvwm, really
Runs on PPC/i386: Any major free OS
BFS: ???
New API: yeah, we really need better GUI APIs, but not in a new OS

Is it even worth checking out?
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: worker201 on 14 February 2006, 22:26: twm's footprint is tiny - I mean like usbstick-Linux tiny. Sounds like a good OS for junk hardware.

I've never used it, but I have heard that some people think it is pretty fucking cool. With any luck, they can tell you more.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: WMD on 14 February 2006, 23:27: Quote from: _kill__bill
My question is, what was so great about it?

It was easy. It was fast and small. And it did those things without having a GUI so featureless (like those you mentioned) that you needed the command line. It was probably the only decent threat to Windows 98, and it's still better than Linux in some ways. Microsoft killed off the company by 2001 or so, maybe earlier.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: ReggieMicheals on 14 February 2006, 23:29: Its a damn good OS similar to linux. I say its worth checking out the personal edition which lives in a HD image and getting the full thing at beosonline.com if you like it(note: the full version has more drivers and has a better chance of working with your system). Or try Haiku, what ReactOS is to BeOS. It's in its alpha stages with a beta hopefully coming soon.

Preview: http://toastytech.com/guis/b5pe.html
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: noob on 15 February 2006, 00:15: I'ma try BeOS, may aswell. Is there any source code available? It could come in usefull for a project I am working on.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: piratePenguin on 15 February 2006, 00:34: Quote from: noob
I'ma try BeOS, may aswell. Is there any source code available? It could come in usefull for a project I am working on.
Nope, no source. I think it's Palm that owns it now and they're not doing a damn thing with it IIRC.
There is the source for haiku (http://www.haiku-os.org/), though. I take it it's the "open source console" (http://www.microsuck.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10046) you're interested in it for?

@Reggie: have you ever gotten haiku to run yourself, or has it not reached that stage yet?
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: hm_murdock on 16 February 2006, 02:26: BeOS is for the most part, roughly equal to Mac OS 8.5 - 9.2 in UI and experience. Unlike Mac OS 8/9, however, it does have full preemptive multitasking, and all the goodies that come with that. It's horribly fast... has a very light footprint. It's cool. It's neat. It roxors your boxers.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Lead Head on 16 February 2006, 03:05: Put it this way speed wise, Its boots faster on a 266Mhz K-6 then my A64 3000 with windows XP...

How ever, BeOS r5 PE doesnt work "well" with Athlon 64s unless you patched it. I had to run it on safe mode with my A64 and it was slow.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: ReggieMicheals on 18 February 2006, 16:44: Haiku doesn't have its kernel ready, so it shells on BeOS for now. It also only uses Intel Processors - not AMDs. However BeOS Developer Edition(free) has AMD support.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Lead Head on 18 February 2006, 17:14: r5 does have AMD support, but only Athlons or lower unless you get it patched so you can use AXP and A64s
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 18 February 2006, 19:00: How about security?

Does it have a security model with permissions or is it root for all like Windows 9x?
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Lead Head on 18 February 2006, 19:13: Its doesn't really have usernames and stuff like that. There is only one account and thats root/admin. But you don't really need to worry about security on BeOS. I mean if OSX just got its first worm.. How many do you think BeOS has?
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 18 February 2006, 19:24: You have a fair point but while it isn't a problem at the moment it'd become a big problem if BeOS gains a considerable userbase. I think it's probably a good thing that BeOS hasn't become the dominant OS, even Windows is more secure because it has the potential to lock down the system by having limited user accounts. Although most people don't use this feature now, maybe in the future MS might see sense and make limited accounts the norm.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: hm_murdock on 18 February 2006, 22:56: Not sure that the security issue was that important when Be was made. Remember, it's a product of the early-mid 1990s when this crap wasn't constantly bombarding every computer on the Earth.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 18 February 2006, 22:59: The same is true for Windows.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: noob on 18 February 2006, 23:02: windows is commercial and so should be up to date and capable of at least half decent security.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: WMD on 18 February 2006, 23:29: Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
You have a fair point but while it isn't a problem at the moment it'd become a big problem if BeOS gains a considerable userbase.

Gain a considerable userbase? The company isn't even in business anymore. :p

[OFFTOPIC]The guy who ran Be, Inc. is the guy in themacuser's 2006 video responding "Windows" to the question about Obfusicated C. \o/[/OFFTOPIC]
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 19 February 2006, 01:05: Yeah I know but my main point was we're probably better off with Windows than BeOS as the dominant OS.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: H_TeXMeX_H on 19 February 2006, 02:11: I don't quite see the reasoning here ... :confused:
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Orethrius on 19 February 2006, 03:50: Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Yeah I know but my main point was we're probably better off with Windows than BeOS as the dominant OS.

Hold it. You're saying that a system whose only significant in-roads regarding security have been to purchase competing, security-minded corporations and/or their products - subsequently redefining "security" to "whatever gets us the most customers" - since inception is somehow more secure than a system that was abandoned around the time they were driven out of business by product A? You're assuming that they wouldn't make security changes, and that - at least to me - is one hell of an assumption.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: WMD on 19 February 2006, 04:09: He does have a point though...BeOS has no multiuser system, unless they were hiding it. Adding one in would not have been an easy task.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: ReggieMicheals on 19 February 2006, 16:28: Well, we can ask for those features in the Haiku forums. I'm sure its understandable.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 19 February 2006, 16:32: Quote from: Orethrius
Hold it. You're saying that a system whose only significant in-roads regarding security have been to purchase competing, security-minded corporations and/or their products - subsequently redefining "security" to "whatever gets us the most customers" - since inception is somehow more secure than a system that was abandoned around the time they were driven out of business by product A?

Yes.

Windows first became popular with 3.x which was an add-on to DOS, then came Windows 9x which included DOS.

But what about NT? You've missed the point that NT has been the most significant in-road to security MS have ever made.

Inbetween Windows 3.11 and 95 MS came up with NT which did have a security model and was superiour to their DOS based line of OSes. MS couldn't make it their main OS for many years because of backward the compatability problems it'd cause by not allowing programs direct access to the hardware and it also required more powerful hardware than most people had at the time.

Now BeOS had no equivalent to NT unless they were hiding it.

Quote from: Orethrius
You're assuming that they wouldn't make security changes, and that - at least to me - is one hell of an assumption.

Yes.

BeOS would require a complete re-write to implement a security model, because it'd need a different kernel which would've meant breaking compatability with all old programs, which is precisely why MS haven't made restricted accounts the default with Windows XP. MS will probably change this in a few years time once they stop supporting the 9x series or any software designed to run on it.

Now what's easier implementing a security model for BeOS (which is as hard as securing Windows ME) or changing a few default installation options and implementing one on NT?
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: piratePenguin on 19 February 2006, 19:41: Be intended on having the next release (which didn't happen) multi-user.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 19 February 2006, 20:28: http://www.beatjapan.org/mirror/www.be.com/support/qandas/faqs/faq-0016.html

Right, I've done some research and you're right, I was wrong, no in fact WMD is right, they must've been hiding this ability from us. But (as I was saying before) what about backwards compatability with previous versions of software designed to run as root?

EDIT:
yellowTAB ZETA (BeOS' sucessor) still doesn't quite match up to XP on the security front.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_operating_systems#Security
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: toadlife on 25 February 2006, 09:58: Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
MS will probably change this in a few years time once they stop supporting the 9x series or any software designed to run on it.

Vista will (does) create regular users by default.
Title: What can you do with it?
Post by: mobrien_12 on 26 February 2006, 02:46: I know how technically superior BeOS is to Windows and Mac OS <= 9, but what do you do with it these days?

What webbrowser? What do you use to write documents, play web clips, ogg vorbis, mp3? Do you have problems getting printer drivers?
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: H_TeXMeX_H on 26 February 2006, 03:03: I'm betting there will be problems ... but I never used it so I dunno.
Title: Re: What can you do with it?
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 26 February 2006, 13:08: Quote from: mobrien_12
I know how technically superior BeOS is to Windows and Mac OS <= 9, but what do you do with it these days?

What webbrowser? What do you use to write documents, play web clips, ogg vorbis, mp3? Do you have problems getting printer drivers?

You must be able to get a Postscript driver to print it to a file then print it with another OS.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: WMD on 26 February 2006, 19:44: Firefox...Abiword...there is a media player, who knows what it plays...printing was always a weakness on Be.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Lead Head on 26 February 2006, 20:26: firefox/quickfox, Abi word, VLC Media Player(plays pretty much every eveything)
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: H_TeXMeX_H on 27 February 2006, 03:34: Quote from: Lead Head
VLC Media Player(plays pretty much every eveything)

except for embeded videos in web browsers
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Refalm on 27 February 2006, 09:24: Quote from: H_TeXMeX_H
except for embeded videos in web browsers

That's complete rubbish. It has an Opera and Firefox plugin.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: H_TeXMeX_H on 27 February 2006, 20:28: But they don't work ... at least not for me. A number of embeded videos won't play in the browser with VLC.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: Aloone_Jonez on 28 February 2006, 00:12: Quote from: toadlife
Vista will (does) create regular users by default.

Oh no!
That means more viruses will be able to install under limited user accounts so I might have to run anti-virus.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: inane on 3 March 2006, 09:58: Vlc Pwns U!!!
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: toadlife on 4 March 2006, 02:20: Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
Oh no!
That means more viruses will be able to install under limited user accounts so I might have to run anti-virus.

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. :(

No more extra protection just by means of running as a LU.
Title: Re: What was BeOS?
Post by: ReggieMicheals on 4 March 2006, 19:57: Let's cross our fingers and hope Microsoft won't. I'd hate to disconnect my windows machine from the internet and use USB Mem sticks and ZIP disks to transfer the programs I need...