Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => macOS => Topic started by: obob on 26 July 2006, 15:42
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I've been reading about this OS quite a bit, and I'm somewhat confused about how it mounts to a disk...in contrast to say, for example, Gentoo, or something entirely different from that, WinNT...
I've read some conflicting arguements, basically, some saying it can't be put onto a partion/easily multi-booted, others saying it can be multi-booted with a number of other OS' through GRUB or it's own bootloader, however not a whole lot of explination of either side...
So, what's the deal? Can it work with other OS' on the same system, such as Gentoo and NT, or is it going to be a pain and want the entire drive to itself?
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Considering I have OS 10.4.7 and 9.2.2 on this drive (single partition) and each of them boots easily, I'd say it does allright.
It works great with XP on Intel Macs using Boot Camp. It works great with Linux on either PPC or Intel.
All of this is due to better design on the hardware side, since Apple doesn't use shitty ass 1981 vintage BIOS software. Instead, they use OpenFirmware on PPC and EFI on Intel combined with their own ROM which has graphical boot selection which lets you easily choose a partition to boot from.
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Well, I think your post would help me a lot more if I was using an Apple, except that I'm not...
I'm trying this on a Celeron D w/SSE3, so any advice for getting it to work? (I've got 2 HD's in atm, and I'm gonna be buying another one purely to expand my storage, however it's SATA, and i've read that OS X doesn't support SATA (I think that's crap, given that the PPC G5 is clearly stated as using SATA))
Also, anyone know about OS X and the VIA PT880, how well do they play? I've read that the Intel 915 - 975 all play nice with OS X, and that P4M266A and K8M800 are supposed to be fine (iirc the 266A is a fairly value geared chip, the PT880 isn't quite so value geared, so I'm thinking it'll be ok?)
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Here's a simple way to solve all your problems...
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i44/the_jimmy_james/GETCOMPUTAH.jpg)
Go here http://wegenermedia.com/
G4s for $129. iMac G4s for $359. G3 iMacs for $109. OHEMGEE TEH COMPTARS!!!111
Giddem.
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LOL! to the image
Don't be hating on my Celeron...it boots...that's got to be at least 1 point....
and wow that's a nice price, question on the G4 tower, the 400MHZ, is it gonna be sluggish, yes, no?
also, what kind of upgrades can I make using "PC" hardware, vs "mac" hardware?
(i know next to nothing about upgrading a Mac)
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A G4 400 will be perfectly acceptable for OS X. Mine is a dual 500 (upgraded to dual 1.8) G4. I added a Radeon 8500 card, but even the Rage 128 that comes stock on that series is just fine for displaying video, DVD, et cetera, though it lacks greatly for 3D games.
#1 thing is to get plenty of RAM. I'm running 1.12GB on here, but anything over 512MB should be A-OK.
Re: hardware. Most PCI cards will work, drivers permitting. USB, Firewire, drive controllers, those usually do allright. Network cards? Ehh. Vid cards? No way. You either have to have a Mac vid card, or flash an appropriate model of PC card.
These guys use regular PC100 or PC133 SDRAM, ATA drives, and the like. I recommend a G4 500, and then... go from there. :)
The trouble required to make OS X run on unsupported non-Apple branded hardware is immense! If you really wanna run it, best bet is to just get the right hardware! I'll be here if ya got more questions!
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FYI, installing Ubuntu PPC and OSX side by side on Apple hardware and then dual booting is no trouble at all. Ubuntu installs this program which I think is called yaboot that brings up an OS choice menu at boot time, similar to grub or lilo.
Unfortunately, it appears impossible to partition a drive that already has OSX installed on it. My method was to wipe the drive, and then create 3 partitions with the OSX install cd (OSX, ext3, swap), and then installing OSX. Using the Ubuntu installer, you kill the ext3 partition, and then the installer will make a boot block and use the rest of the space for itself, making it ext3 again. Very convenient.
Therefore, I guess if you were a crazy motherfucker, you could do all of this on a PC.
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wait what are you saying to do on a PC??
Install ubuntu and then load OS X from installation media, and then go back to the ubuntu installation? (and to make it even more time consuming, load NT alongside that)
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I don't think this forum should support running OS X on non Apple hardware.
Sorry, it's a cool OS that's subsidized solely through hardware sales and one of the few things that made me really happy to use a computer in the past 5 years; I'd rather not have that jeopardized by dorks warezing bootleg copies from their bedroom.
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Alright, Apple moving to x86 is a reality, and it sounds like you're honestly saying that you want Apple to stay super proprietary and super closed in on itself (which it still is, for the most part) just so that it's an "elite membership" to have an Apple.
Furthermore, I was just asking questions, and my computers aren't in my bedroom, I actually have an office :P
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I don't think this forum should support running OS X on non Apple hardware.
Well, it's not Windows, so it makes sense to support it.
But it's probably illegal at least in the US thanks to the fucked up DMCA (bypassing the TPM checks or whatever..).
So you can thank the fucked up DMCA.
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wait what are you saying to do on a PC??
Install ubuntu and then load OS X from installation media, and then go back to the ubuntu installation? (and to make it even more time consuming, load NT alongside that)
No.
1. Partition hard drive - HFS+, ext3, swap
2. Install OSX on HSF+ partition
3. Using Ubuntu installer, erase ext3 partition and then install to free space - this forces Ubuntu to create the PPC boot block
And all my instructions were for Ubuntu PPC and PPC arch.
As a reminder, it would be illegal to install OSX on a non-Apple PC.
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DMCA or not, it's still against the law, and we still have to abide by those laws. Until such time that the DMCA is overturned, the owners of the forum could still be held liable under the law for allowing instructions on running OS X on non-Apple hardware to be posted here.
We're just trying to keep things on the up and up. That's the reason I strongly suggest getting a used Mac. It's easier, better, and more legal than hacking OS X for Intel. If being able to run Windows and Linux side by side is important to you, Apple's current lineup features Intel Core processors.
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Which is another reason I'd always recommend e.g. Ubuntu before OS X.
If you get a letter from a Canonical lawyer (if they exist, lol) you've probably done something actually wrong. They don't need to stand behind shitty laws like the DMCA.
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Alright, Apple moving to x86 is a reality, and it sounds like you're honestly saying that you want Apple to stay super proprietary and super closed in on itself (which it still is, for the most part) just so that it's an "elite membership" to have an Apple.
No, I want the company and platform to survive you retard. What part of "OS X development is subsidized through hardware sales" don't you understand? If they can position themselves to be like Microsoft and make money solely off the OS, I wouldn't mind that -- but it's not a reality, and won't be for a really long time.
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No, I want the company and platform to survive you retard. What part of "OS X development is subsidized through hardware sales" don't you understand? If they can position themselves to be like Microsoft and make money solely off the OS, I wouldn't mind that -- but it's not a reality, and won't be for a really long time.
1. release an intel version of OS X without the TPM checks.
2. offer them to Dell and the other big OEMs at special prices.
3. ...profit!
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Yeah, that worked out real well for BeOS.
With your logic though, Apple should be happy making a measly $20 profit from Dell compared the large profit margin they currently make on hardware, which trickles down to an OS that Windows and Linux don't even get around to ripping off until five years later -- even with MS's massive R&D.
Not to mention, those profits keep the chain of cool hardware Apple produces flowing along smoothly; if it weren't for Apple we'd still probably be stuck in a paradigm of beige boxes and 20lbs laptops.
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i highly doubt that given that the majority of hardware development is fueled by Microsoft (gaming hardware, think Direct3D, which your beloved doesn't seem to support) which pushes cooling technology forward, which pushes case design forward
laptop design is pushed by a desire to have faster, more capble laptops, not to compete with Apple, Apple doesn't drive anything, Apple competes in mp3 player sales by making itself the "popular fad" for teenagers everywhere, and in hardware, it buys more or less the same hardware used in PC's
So, in short, you're saying that Apple is the reason the computer industry doesn't suck, I'm saying that Apple makes a very very very very small mark, it doesn't push IHV's to release more capable graphics hardware, it doesn't push IHV's to release more efficient hardware with higher performance standards, it doesn't push IHV's to invent new technologies to better utilize it, it actually complains when IHV's build anything related to it
You wanna argue Apple for advancing technology forwards, lets look at a few various roles that computers play:
HPC's, which are primarily built my HP, IBM, Cray, SGI, Sun, etc, Apple can't compete, these companies push the realm of hardware (and software) to the limit just to squeeze more power out of their systems
then lets move to laptops, Apple currently makes one of the most overpriced laptops on the market, oh wow, it runs OS X, so amazing *yawn* while you can buy the same Core Duo laptop from Sony, Lenovo, HP, etc, for considerably less, have more customizable options (and ZOMG I know that having a silver or blue or green laptop is such crap compared to Apple's AMAZINGLY UNIQUE ability to make AN ALL WHITE computer)
you wanna argue style, lets talk style, Apple has zero customizability, yeah you can "hack your mac" oh wow, that's so amazing, it's the same case and the same layout but it got painted an ew color (AMAZING)
seriously, they got nothing, they're overpriced, and just scream and complain if anyone tries to reduce that price...so yeah, i see your point, profit margins through screwing their customers, which might explain why they have so few customers in the first place (or the more logical assumption that it's just a bad idea in general to get a mac, and on that note, i love how a thread asking about mac turned into a flame war because someone wants to feel speshul for having an Apple)
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Yeah, that worked out real well for BeOS.
With your logic though, Apple should be happy making a measly $20 profit from Dell compared the large profit margin they currently make on hardware, which trickles down to an OS that Windows and Linux don't even get around to ripping off until five years later -- even with MS's massive R&D.
Not to mention, those profits keep the chain of cool hardware Apple produces flowing along smoothly; if it weren't for Apple we'd still probably be stuck in a paradigm of beige boxes and 20lbs laptops.
Er, Apple could continue selling Macs and iPods and all their other products, believe it or not.
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i highly doubt that given that the majority of hardware development is fueled by Microsoft (gaming hardware, think Direct3D, which your beloved doesn't seem to support) which pushes cooling technology forward, which pushes case design forward
laptop design is pushed by a desire to have faster, more capble laptops, not to compete with Apple, Apple doesn't drive anything, Apple competes in mp3 player sales by making itself the "popular fad" for teenagers everywhere, and in hardware, it buys more or less the same hardware used in PC's
So, in short, you're saying that Apple is the reason the computer industry doesn't suck, I'm saying that Apple makes a very very very very small mark, it doesn't push IHV's to release more capable graphics hardware, it doesn't push IHV's to release more efficient hardware with higher performance standards, it doesn't push IHV's to invent new technologies to better utilize it, it actually complains when IHV's build anything related to it
You wanna argue Apple for advancing technology forwards, lets look at a few various roles that computers play:
HPC's, which are primarily built my HP, IBM, Cray, SGI, Sun, etc, Apple can't compete, these companies push the realm of hardware (and software) to the limit just to squeeze more power out of their systems
then lets move to laptops, Apple currently makes one of the most overpriced laptops on the market, oh wow, it runs OS X, so amazing *yawn* while you can buy the same Core Duo laptop from Sony, Lenovo, HP, etc, for considerably less, have more customizable options (and ZOMG I know that having a silver or blue or green laptop is such crap compared to Apple's AMAZINGLY UNIQUE ability to make AN ALL WHITE computer)
you wanna argue style, lets talk style, Apple has zero customizability, yeah you can "hack your mac" oh wow, that's so amazing, it's the same case and the same layout but it got painted an ew color (AMAZING)
seriously, they got nothing, they're overpriced, and just scream and complain if anyone tries to reduce that price...so yeah, i see your point, profit margins through screwing their customers, which might explain why they have so few customers in the first place (or the more logical assumption that it's just a bad idea in general to get a mac, and on that note, i love how a thread asking about mac turned into a flame war because someone wants to feel speshul for having an Apple)
It seems like you've never owned a Mac. Thus, you don't get it. I can't explain it, but there IS a difference, and it pervades everything about the computer, from its packaging down to its core frameworks. I can't truly say they are faster or more efficient or cheaper or less buggy or anything else. But dammit, Apples are cooler, and there's no way to know that until you've had the FedEx guy knock on your door with a big box you have to sign for.
Honestly, Apple ownership is the closest thing I get on a daily basis to spirituality, and you cannot put a price tag on that.
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The switch to Intel killed the possibility of running Mac OS X on a custom-built computer.
I can run Ubuntu on a custom-built computer. I can run Windows on a custom-built computers.
And if owning a Mac brings you closer to spirituality than using a computer you built, then, wow.
And Macs are cool, but I haven't seen many different laptops or case designs from different companies, and I doubt Macs are undoubtedly the coolest things out there.
"cool" is relative too, btw.
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i highly doubt that given that the majority of hardware development is fueled by Microsoft
Hardware development is pushed by games and, to a lesser extent, the Internet (server performance).
(gaming hardware, think Direct3D, which your beloved doesn't seem to support)
Direct3D is proprietary and can't be supported by anyone else but Microsoft. Also, OpenGL (excuse me, Glide) predates D3D, and supports all platforms - which is the reason DirectX exists to begin with.
laptop design is pushed by a desire to have faster, more capble laptops, not to compete with Apple,
Considering that Apple was the first to have a lot of now-typical laptop things (keyboard towards the screen, trackpad, stereo sound, proper power management), I think you need to read up on laptop history.
Apple doesn't drive anything, Apple competes in mp3 player sales by making itself the "popular fad" for teenagers everywhere,
The iPod may be popular, but that doesn't change the fact that it had/has the best interface of any player, and the best integration between it and the computer. The music store is ok too, but I don't like DRM.
and in hardware, it buys more or less the same hardware used in PC's
That wasn't always the case. They started moving that way to make their computers less expensive and more open to develop for (need not make NuBus cards any more, etc). True, the hardware is mostly the same now, but IBM wasn't too keen on helping out like they needed. It was either switch or wait an ungodly amount of time.
So, in short, you're saying that Apple is the reason the computer industry doesn't suck, I'm saying that Apple makes a very very very very small mark, it doesn't push IHV's to release more capable graphics hardware, it doesn't push IHV's to release more efficient hardware with higher performance standards, it doesn't push IHV's to invent new technologies to better utilize it,
They don't need to do all that. No single company does. They make better out of all the stuff that otherwise exists. By the way, WTF is "IHV"?
it actually complains when IHV's build anything related to it
As in....?
HPC's, which are primarily built my HP, IBM, Cray, SGI, Sun, etc, Apple can't compete, these companies push the realm of hardware (and software) to the limit just to squeeze more power out of their systems
Apple sells servers. They aren't a huge name in that market, but they do quite well for themselves.
then lets move to laptops, Apple currently makes one of the most overpriced laptops on the market, oh wow, it runs OS X, so amazing *yawn* while you can buy the same Core Duo laptop from Sony, Lenovo, HP, etc, for considerably less,
I keep hearing it, but I never see it. And no, they aren't "the same." A MacBook Pro is not a ThinkPad is not a Vaio is not a Pavillion is not an Inspiron.
have more customizable options (and ZOMG I know that having a silver or blue or green laptop is such crap compared to Apple's AMAZINGLY UNIQUE ability to make AN ALL WHITE computer)
The MBP is aluminum colored :p hehehe
you wanna argue style, lets talk style, Apple has zero customizability, yeah you can "hack your mac" oh wow, that's so amazing, it's the same case and the same layout but it got painted an ew color (AMAZING)
What are you talking about?
seriously, they got nothing, they're overpriced, and just scream and complain if anyone tries to reduce that price...so yeah, i see your point, profit margins through screwing their customers,
Only if you are a foolish customer. You don't have to pay full price for Apple hardware, just like with anyone else. Investigate!
and on that note, i love how a thread asking about mac turned into a flame war because someone wants to feel speshul for having an Apple)
Nobody said anything stupid or flame-worthy until this part:
Alright, Apple moving to x86 is a reality, and it sounds like you're honestly saying that you want Apple to stay super proprietary and super closed in on itself (which it still is, for the most part) just so that it's an "elite membership" to have an Apple.
Oh, look, it's you!
It seems like you've never owned a Mac. Thus, you don't get it. I can't explain it, but there IS a difference, and it pervades everything about the computer, from its packaging down to its core frameworks. I can't truly say they are faster or more efficient or cheaper or less buggy or anything else. But dammit, Apples are cooler, and there's no way to know that until you've had the FedEx guy knock on your door with a big box you have to sign for.
Honestly, Apple ownership is the closest thing I get on a daily basis to spirituality, and you cannot put a price tag on that.
As crazy as all that sounds, I can kind of agree with you. I can't explain it either.
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...Honestly, Apple ownership is the closest thing I get on a daily basis to spirituality, and you cannot put a price tag on that.
Hahaha. I hate that I agree with this and understand.
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Of course Apple make the best laptops in the universe (http://blog.deeje.tv/musings/2006/06/laptops_and_swe.html)!
They're getting kinda cheap.
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i highly doubt that given that the majority of hardware development is fueled by Microsoft (gaming hardware, think Direct3D, which your beloved doesn't seem to support) which pushes cooling technology forward, which pushes case design forward
Right, which is why Microsoft was the first one to adopt USB, Firewire, make DVI (though in the form of an ADC adapter) standard on all machines, make wireless cards standard on laptops (back in 98 or 99 with the clamshell iBooks), kill off legacy interfaces and mediums (parallel and serial ports, floppies). Not to mention other little things, like machines that can instantly wake from sleep and get more than 2 hours of battery life (I'm back in 98 still, mind you). Who was the first company promoting the idea of home DVD creation, back in 2000 when PCs were still lucky to ship with a CD-RW? Who was shipping their machines with widescreen LCDs five years ago, back when you were upgrading from a 15" CRT?
Apple doesn't invent the latest and greatest technology, but they sure as hell as the first to use it when it becomes available. There's other examples, but we don't have 20 pages. You're right though, MS does fuel hardware sales; you need at least 3ghz+ to draw the latest security update pop-ups and wireless connection wizards (meanwhile OS X just joins a network for you, or present you with a nice pull-down menu), in a dazzling fade-in fashion. That was worth the upgrade alone, wasn't it?
Apple doesn't drive anything, Apple competes in mp3 player sales by making itself the "popular fad" for teenagers everywhere
Apple and Sony are perhaps the only two manufactures advocating the idea that a machine can perform well and look good at the same time; they pay intricate detail to design in ways no one else does, which is exemplified by things like the latchless MacBooks, magsafe adapters, backlit keyboards, and a slew of other small features -- which PC laptops will steal within a few months. I guess your memory is short as well, because the first 17" laptop was made by Apple.
So, in short, you're saying that Apple is the reason the computer industry doesn't suck, I'm saying that Apple makes a very very very very small mark,
No, I'm saying Apple is willing to take risks and bless its customers with the latest and greatest innovative ideas while your jaw still drops over the 10lbs Dell laptop for $499. That's your forte; stick with it.
Don't be fooled; I'm a Mac user for OS X -- the pretty products are just an added bonus. And yes, in my opinion OS X is the only OS out right now that doesn't suck in performing in a non-interferring manor and bringing new features to the table that I actually care about.
then lets move to laptops, Apple currently makes one of the most overpriced laptops on the market, oh wow, it runs OS X, so amazing *yawn* while you can buy the same Core Duo laptop from Sony, Lenovo, HP, etc, for considerably less, have more customizable options (and ZOMG I know that having a silver or blue or green laptop is such crap compared to Apple's AMAZINGLY UNIQUE ability to make AN ALL WHITE computer)
So we've established A) either you hate OS X or have never used it -- thus OS X is not important enough to legitimize the purchase of a Mac and that B) Well thought out design means very little to you and you're happy with a large, clunky HP laptop. Also, feel free to price a machine comparative to Apple's current offerings -- not only in technical specifications, but in weight, battery life, features, and packed in software (iLife, to name one). I doubt you will find a large difference, and this has been proven so many times in the past.
you wanna argue style, lets talk style, Apple has zero customizability, yeah you can "hack your mac" oh wow, that's so amazing, it's the same case and the same layout but it got painted an ew color (AMAZING)
The only stock part in my PowerMac is the case and motherboard. Throughout the years I've upgraded the video card, added a DVD writer, added a TV card, upgraded the CPU, added SATA, and a number of other traditional upgrades. The machine was purchased in 2002 and thanks to its flexibility still performs comparable to some of the last PowerPC units Apple shipped (better in some cases).
My MacBook's hard drive can be very easily swapped by removing a couple screws (the 7200 RPM upgrade seems tempting) and I've already maxed it out at 2gb of RAM. I've taken apart my friend's Mini twice; you know the CPUs in those things are socketed right? The only non-upgrable part in that budget machine is the graphics chip.
i see your point, profit margins through screwing their customers, which might explain why they have so few customers in the first place
Yeah, I feel so screwed -- getting a kick-ass OS that never gives me any problems and cool hardware. The majority of the people shop at Wal-Mart and eat at McDonalds, I suppose that's the lifestyle I should be aiming for in your opinion right? Then I can kick back, watch meaningless sitcoms and FOX news while I scratch my balls and jack off to porn on my $399 Dell Inspirion.
Oh and in case you missed it, Apple's Macintosh market share soars 16 percent (http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/07/20/marketshare/index.php).
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Ok, where to start
A) OpenGL is NOT GLIDE, GLIDE was from 3dfx, a custom slimmed down implementation of MiniGL which was sliced down OpenGL, it was designed to run in hardware on the Voodoo chips as a performance increase (which was MASSIVE in the days of SST96)
B) GLIDE = 1997~, DIRECT3D = 1994~
C) Xserve isn't for sale anymore, at least that i've seen, additionally, the biggest servers are from Sun, Dell, HP, etc
D) also, in paying more, i expect non-proprietary crap, i expect stuff i can mod an upgrade, seriously, for $3000, i want total control of my system
now to bedouin
apple didn't invent all of those, they worked on a few, as far as being the most lightweight/performance, lets talk about Sharp and Fujitsu, which will kick the crap out of Apple in weight and in heatoutput
furthermore, Sony's computers look like crap, but lets consider a few others who worry about style:
Dell
Alienware
Falcon NW
SGI
Sun Microsystems
Voodoo PC
and then the case makers:
Lian-Li
Antec
Enermax
Asus
Gigabyte Tech
aditionally, lets talk about this 3GHZ+ need stuff, Intel's new Core 2 actually puts a faster processor than Apple is using in the hands of PC USERS! so Apple no longer has the more advanced hardware, also, DVI is worthless...and it mostly always has been (the quality advantage over VGA is nonexistent unless you're doing dual link, and the majority of cards released with DVI ports (except the multi-thousand dollar Quadro series) usually can't even meet the correct specifications of DVI bandwidth wise, because their TMDS isn't high enough quality)
non-Apple desktops offer more capability in terms of modding, upgrading, etc
In short, you guys are both arguing the stupidest points, mostly because your both wrong...
BTW
you can look up IHV for yourself
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[offtopic]Something I read recently (which makes sense to me) (since someone said something about Macs being first to get USB (which I know has nothing to do with USB2)):
Linux, said Kroah-Hartman answering the charge, supports more devices out of the box than any other operating system ever has. Linux is often even ahead of the pack, being the first operating system to implement both USB2 and bluetooth.
http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/07/23/1212252[/offtopic]
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BTW
you can look up IHV for yourself
Independent hardware vendor
that took a whole 4 seconds!
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C) Xserve isn't for sale anymore, at least that i've seen, additionally, the biggest servers are from Sun, Dell, HP, etc
Please step away from the keyboard. (http://www.apple.com/xserve/)
D) also, in paying more, i expect non-proprietary crap, i expect stuff i can mod an upgrade, seriously, for $3000, i want total control of my system
See previous post where I speak of all the upgrades done and possible with my Macs and others.
apple didn't invent all of those, they worked on a few
Work on your reading comprehension. See previous post where I stated pretty clearly that Apple is one of the leading early adopters, not inventors.
furthermore, Sony's computers look like crap, but lets consider a few others who worry about style:
You mentioned style with Dell, Alienware, and VooDoo PC in the same sentence -- just stop.
DVI is worthless...and it mostly always has been (the quality advantage over VGA is nonexistent unless you're doing dual link
Thanks for shooting your credibility to even less than zero. I had a Dell 24" Widescreen display attached to a Mac Mini via VGA and a PowerMac via DVI and the difference hurt my eyes. If you can't tell the difference you need an eye exam.
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Of course Apple make the best laptops in the universe (http://blog.deeje.tv/musings/2006/06/laptops_and_swe.html)!
They're getting kinda cheap.
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about ... Apple makes items that are overpriced, overrated, and pretty crappy (low actual value of product, high percieved value by many customers)
another example is the iPod nano screens scratching even if you touch them ... fucking ridiculous
Or are we supposed to be real careful with their shitty ... I mean "sensitive" equipment.
Apple = bunch of cheap pussies !
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it's kind of funny that the screen in the IPod Nano is made out of the same exact materials as the 4th generation iPod, which no one complained about. As for durability, tests prove it's just fine. (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nano.ars/3)
And like with any first-generation product problems can emerge, which Apple addressed (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304058) in a professional manner.
If you reuse the same design for 10 years though, your chances of having an occasional gotcha are less.
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Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about ... Apple makes items that are overpriced, overrated, and pretty crappy (low actual value of product, high percieved value by many customers)
another example is the iPod nano screens scratching even if you touch them ... fucking ridiculous
Or are we supposed to be real careful with their shitty ... I mean "sensitive" equipment.
Apple = bunch of cheap pussies !
"Oh noes, I read a blog entry, that proves Apple sux!"
Give it up. You're smarter than this.
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"Oh noes, I read a blog entry, that proves Apple sux!"
Give it up. You're smarter than this.
Well, not really just a blog entry, a friend of mine had a nano it scratched damn quick
Note: I'm NOT saying the nano isn't durable ... it'll work even if you smash it with a hammer ... but the screen is made of cheap plastic that scrathes far too easily and makes the screen almost unreadable. I've seen the yellow shit on many nearly brand new Mac laptops .... I though the people who owned them were just dirty, or didn't care about their laptops ... looks like I was wrong, cheap plastic again !!!
Oh, and what about the issue of putting tons of thermal paste on the processor ? That greatly reduces performance ... why did they do it ? Do they just not care about the quality of their shit or what ?
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My dad has the white iBook I bought in 2003. I used it regularly in college, at work, while eating -- and it's still perfectly white. Likewise, my iPod is doing just fine too.
Of course, I know how I treated my things, and all things electronic I've owned since I was waist-high with an Intellivision and c64.
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it's kind of funny that the screen in the IPod Nano is made out of the same exact materials as the 4th generation iPod, which no one complained about. As for durability, tests prove it's just fine. (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nano.ars/3)
And like with any first-generation product problems can emerge, which Apple addressed (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304058) in a professional manner.
If you reuse the same design for 10 years though, your chances of having an occasional gotcha are less.
Cheap. Materials. edit: and the ipod screens are pretty cheap too (I've owned an ipod). I bet they could do better - might eat a tiny bit into their precious margins though.
edit: and the mac book pro is so much different/cooler than the powerbook, haha.
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Thanks for shooting your credibility to even less than zero. I had a Dell 24" Widescreen display attached to a Mac Mini via VGA and a PowerMac via DVI and the difference hurt my eyes. If you can't tell the difference you need an eye exam.
hahaha, DVI and VGA have no difference, if you're one of the yups who claims they can see the difference between DVI and VGA, I'm guessing you're also one of the yups who claims to be able to discern 150 FPS from 60 FPS, and one of the yups who claims to be capable of discerning 32x AA from 8xS (or 6x on ATI) while it's flying by at 40 FPS...oh wait, I forgot Apple doesn't support the hardware needed for 32x AA output in realtime...sorry about that
how about this as a compromise, seeing as how you buying into factual data is about as likely as me warming up to Apple being anything more than a good door stop (really, you can't beat a Mac at being a doorstop, weight + handle + small size, it's like, insane) hows about we just call it quits then? I say Apple sucks, because it does, and you say Apple rocks because it's "elite", and I'm guessing neither of us cares to change that view
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Mind if I ask what the fuck the problem is? You came in here asking a question that you knew would get answered with "Get a Mac", so when someone says so, you begin the bashing. Sounds like a classic case of douchebaggery to me.
On one side of the argument, you have people telling you things. On your side, you're just slinging insults.
Troll.
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Well, I'd have to agree, it is trollish (even tho insulting Apple doesn't bother me)
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Everbody is entitled to an opinion. Starting a thread just as an excuse to spew that opinion as an insult at people... that's not so good.
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It was all nice and civil until post 9/10.
Trolls can't survive without food ;)
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Teh fite!!1
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Everbody is entitled to an opinion. Starting a thread just as an excuse to spew that opinion as an insult at people... that's not so good.
firstly, I didn't start this thread just to insult people, I wasn't looking for the cop out answer of "get a mac" I was looking for information, which you obviously don't have, instead it turned into a flame war because someone felt it neccesary to try and point out how being a mac owner makes his shit smell like roses
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B) GLIDE = 1997~, DIRECT3D = 1994~
And OpenGL = 1992. Thanks for correcting my mistake. :D
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it's kind of funny that the screen in the IPod Nano is made out of the same exact materials as the 4th generation iPod, which no one complained about. As for durability, tests prove it's just fine. (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nano.ars/3)
Might it be that the "quality issues" with Apple products have more to do with their customers being unappreciative whiners (http://www.bryanobryan.com/?p=28) than the actual quality of their products?
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Might it be that the "quality issues" with Apple products have more to do with their customers being unappreciative whiners (http://www.bryanobryan.com/?p=28) than the actual quality of their products?
Are you fucking serious?
A guy switches from OS X, wait, from one OS to another OS, with NUMEROUS GOOD REASONS, so he must be an "unappreciative whiner"?
Have you seen an ipod lately? They tend to have alot of scratches on the screens. Mine did. My brother's does. His girlfriend's does. All my friends do.
Yes - they could buy protective covers or whatever, but the ipod screen is still just as cheap as it always has been.
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The iPods do have issues with scratches. This isn't just a whine issue. It's a real issue. My nano has lived in my pocket most of its life and it isn't all pristine and perfect. It's made of plastic, not diamonds, so it's going to scratch. It's one of those facts of reality. If they'd used better quality plastic, it wouldn't be as noticable/bad. The earlier iPods (gen 1 - 3) used a polycarbonate plastic, and the recent ones use a cheaper variety of acrylic which scratches worse. The early nanos had issues with the LCD breaking.
No, it's not all perfect in Apple land. Real Mac users know that Apple's quality has slipped substantially of late. However, the MacBook contract went to a new maker (Asus), and aside from the discoloration of the plastic case, and heat issues (what 'book doesn't run hot?) I can't think of anything that's happened with them.
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Are you fucking serious?
A guy switches from OS X, wait, from one OS to another OS, with NUMEROUS GOOD REASONS, so he must be an "unappreciative whiner"?
No. Not him. The guy that switched to linux switch because his customers (Apple users) where the unappreciative whiners. He spells it out quite nicely in the blog.
Have you seen an ipod lately? They tend to have alot of scratches on the screens. Mine did. My brother's does. His girlfriend's does. All my friends do.
Yes - they could buy protective covers or whatever, but the ipod screen is still just as cheap as it always has been.
I really don't know about ipods. I've seen maybe three or four of them in my whole life. If I ever bought a music player, it would certainly not be an ipod, because I recognize a product that's success if driven by marketing and looks instead of technical merit. If anything I would buy a Neuros (http://www.neurosaudio.com/) audio player which supports ogg vorbis, flac, has open source firmware, and gives you more features than the ipod for less money. ;)
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However, the MacBook contract went to a new maker (Asus), and aside from the discoloration of the plastic case, and heat issues (what 'book doesn't run hot?) I can't think of anything that's happened with them.
Speaking of Asus, we switched laptop vendors at work, and the new vendor started shipping laptops made by Asus. They were absolute JUNK. We switched back to Compaq/HP whose laptops cost a little more money, but are of much higer quality.
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No, it's not all perfect in Apple land. Real Mac users know that Apple's quality has slipped substantially of late. However, the MacBook contract went to a new maker (Asus), and aside from the discoloration of the plastic case, and heat issues (what 'book doesn't run hot?) I can't think of anything that's happened with them.
There's also this: http://www.smh.com.au/news/laptops--desktops/meltdown-over-macbook-battery-glitch/2006/06/23/1150845361154.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tommorris/186827370/
People go around saying "get a mac - they're better quality than what you get from Dell or manufacturer X" are talking bullshit if you ask me. Apple are as bad as if not worse than Dell, and I don't rate Dell very highly.
If you shop around you will get a good quality product for your money, and it might and might not (believe it or not!) come from Apple.
No. Not him. The guy that switched to linux switch because his customers (Apple users) where the unappreciative whiners. He spells it out quite nicely in the blog.
Ah I see.
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Speaking of Asus, we switched laptop vendors at work, and the new vendor started shipping laptops made by Asus. They were absolute JUNK. We switched back to Compaq/HP whose laptops cost a little more money, but are of much higer quality.
Compaq > ASUS ???!!!??? :confused: :eek: :scared: :nothappy:
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Voodoo 1 released 1996 with the Glide API in hardware.
Direct3D did not exist until DirectX 2. That release date was June 5, 1996.
There were other proprietary 3D chipset API's (S3's Virge was released several months before the Voodoo if I recall). Each 3d accelerator back then essentially had it's own API, and since most games were DOS based, you had a special executable for each one. Glide stood out because of ease of programming and the fact that the 3DFX boards were so much more powerful than the competition.
The nice thing about D3D back then is that it worked on pretty much every single 3D accelerator card. Yeah it was a sucky API. Glide was really fast but was 3DFX only and OpenGL didn't run on alot of cards back then.
Of course, that's not how it is now. That's the way MS works... create something that's compatible across the board, bundle it with the OS, force out the competition, then use it to dictate to the hardware manufacturers, and use it as a weapon against your own customers (you gotta buy Vista if you want D3D 10, but Vista will only run the older D3D in software emulation so all the game developers will drop it and try to force everyone to "upgrade").
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Compaq > ASUS ???!!!??? :confused: :eek: :scared: :nothappy:
I think compaq's laptops were allways pretty decent. Their desktops may have been another story. The only experience I ever had with a "comcrap" desktop was a nightmare. It was a POS. Remember that HP merged with Compaq a few years back and HP already had their own laptop line, so it may be that the new HP/Compaq laptops are really just HP laptops with an extra name stamped on them. All I know is they have been decent laptops for the last several years.
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Yeah, I mean HP usually makes pretty decent laptops, desktops, and printers, but Compaq better than ASUS !?! ... that's very difficult to believe. Every single Compaq I've had the misfortune to encounter has been a POS. As for ASUS, pretty much all my mobos are made by them and they are still running great (let's see the oldest one is 15 years old or so and still running).
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I think compaq's laptops were allways pretty decent. Their desktops may have been another story. The only experience I ever had with a "comcrap" desktop was a nightmare. It was a POS. Remember that HP merged with Compaq a few years back and HP already had their own laptop line, so it may be that the new HP/Compaq laptops are really just HP laptops with an extra name stamped on them. All I know is they have been decent laptops for the last several years.
I remember working with a Compaq Armada P2-333 laptop back in the day. That thing was awesome...save for the 50-minute battery life and Windows 98. (I think it was mistreated.)
As for Compaq desktops...my brother has been pretty lucky with his, a bought-used Deskpro with an extra hard drive, RAM, and a new video card.
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Every single Compaq I've had the misfortune to encounter has been a POS.
That is correct - if by POS you mean 'Point of Sale'. Because the majority of Compaq computers are mass consumer products, meant to be purchased at WalMart and BestBuy. And they certainly do not put the best quality hardware in those things. I'm sure Compaq/HP uses fine hardware in their other non-massmarket products.
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My auntie used a 750Mhz Duron with 64Mb RAM and it did her fine until just a few weeks ago when she bought a new, Dell computer.