Stop Microsoft
Miscellaneous => Technical Support => Topic started by: GenuineAdvantage on 5 August 2006, 10:38
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I tried installing ubuntu on someone's PC and the live cd wouldn't even load. So I guess there's no point in installing it another way? Once the kernel boots it gets stuck on 'mounting root filesystem', then some errors on a plain bios screen show up. I'm no linux expert, nor hardware expert, but I'm guessing it's because it's a SATA-II hard drive? Or is is something else. This is the PC (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&cc=us&dest_page=&dlc=en&product=3190728&docname=c00692782). Anyone recommend a linux distro that would install and work well on that thing?
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Have you tried booting the live CD in another machine to ensure it's a good burn?
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That it is. I've installed with that same disk for people on about 10 machines, or close to that. And the disk isn't scratched or anything, it just stayed in a jewel case all along. I also tried plugging in a different cd drive and installing through there with the same result.
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My brother installed ubuntu first time no probs on his sata-II hard drive.
I would check for any bios updates for that mother board, its the most likely culprit.
I can't any information on the `P5RC-LE' motherboard specified on that website
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=9&l2=39&l3=0&model=797&modelmenu=1
perhaps ?
I would try another live cd (suse 10) as.
are there any changes to the hardware from stock ? what processor has it got ?
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should have a P4 524, also, Asus boards that Asus sells vs Asus boards that Asus sells to OEM builders are very different, doubt the BIOS flash would work...
Sure it's BIOS is setup right to run the OS off a CD?
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This is what everybody forgot! The guy had been practicing his mad soldering skillz and replaced the Intel proc with a PPC G5 the night before. Of course Linux won't boot right!
ELL OH ELL
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except that ubuntu works on PPC G5, and most conventional ATX motherboards are x86, therefore CISC and little endian, the PPC is entirely opposite of all of that...sorry, I have a problem with ruining jokes through understanding
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Those old Compaq's make great NAT boxes or DHCP servers.
When it comes to store PC's, the HP's are pretty much okay.
What's even better is self built computers from a non chain store.
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I keep lots of live CDs around, even a few designed for PPC ... you never know when you're gonna need 'em. (originally this is not the purpose I had in mind, I just wanted to try different distros and live CDs of different operating systems, I have some of FreeBSD, NetBSD, Solaris, lots of Knoppix-like ones ...)
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This PC isn't an old Compaq, unless you count a week as old. And that model was released in May.
Sure it's BIOS is setup right to run the OS off a CD?
Obviously it's set to boot from the CD first or it wouldn't even get that far, so which other settings do you mean? I've tried much already. And I wasn't sure but I guess it has nothing to do with the SATAII hard drive. I've also tried other live cds now and got similar results.
Could it be that Comsuq specifically does things to block other OS installations? I had no problems with other PCs which were Dell and HP. Well I hope I can figure something out or I guess they're stuck with windows.
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I highly DOUBT compaq blocks you to just Windows, they aren't Dell, they don't worship MS.
I was talking about PnP settings and a few other settings in BIOS' designed for Windows, I've never personally had a problem with them (however I have seen WinXP machines running with BIOS' config'd like it was 1994, so my point was that maybe Ubuntu doesn't <3 that (not just the date, i'm talking about like FDD configurations, drive layout, etc))
Idk, it was a shot in the dark, i'd try clearing the CMOS just for the hell of it, finally, I'd really like to know HOW Compaq would block all OS' except MS Windows, without A) breaking the DMCA/anti-trust/anti-competitive laws B) pissing off a huge ass ammt of people C) having it super documented D) WHY?! and also i don't even have a clue as to how you'd go about locking a system thusly...
EDIT
just an idea, I have no actual basis for this though, I know ATI's graphics drivers + linux = crap, that system uses an ATI chipset, and ATI's chipsets suck even worse than their gfx adapters do (seriously, their chipsets are nothing amazing, at all) so maybe it's the chipset sucking it up/being incompatable (like I say, I have nothing to really base this on, don't own an ATI based mobo (thank god))
EDIT 2
ok after looking at ubuntu's website, that's some bullshit, they don't list system requirements/supported hardware ANYWHERE, and they're full of f'ing shit if they wanna say it supports every piece of hardware EVER MADE, Gentoo doesn't list any chipset support req's
HERE:
http://www.ati.com/products/radeonxpress200Intel/specs.html
ATI claims it has "support for Linux operating systems"
which in my opinion is about like saying a guy has "support for intercourse" that doesn't really give you much, beyond that it COULD work
so, i'm guessing it might be your wonderful canadian brand chipset, or it might be the motherboard not being entirely supported, can't gurantee either, and i'm not in the mood to dig out my old HP P4 board and test out my theory...except it uses the 815, which should work fine...
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I tried tinkering with pretty much everything in the bios. No change. This is the end game, I'm afraid this one may have to be lost since I'll have to leave the PC behind, it's my mother's PC. Ironic I didn't have any problem with the other ones including a laptop which I thought would give problems.
Anyways, this is the BIOS error it gives:
..MP-BIOS bug. timer not connected to IO-APIC
PCI: cannot allocate resource region 3 of device 0000:00:00.0
hdc: ide_intr: huh? expected NULL handler on exit
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See if this helps you at all:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-amd64/2005-January/003380.html
Also have a glance at this thread:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-77021.html
Neither is an exact match to your problem (as I understand it), but they may shed some light on what might be going on.
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try damnsmalllinux and see if that works, it has an older kernel which may make a difference.
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I do remember reading an article about this long ago. It was something about locking out other OS's in some package computers. I wish I could be more specific...actually remember more about the article, but I have heard of it at least attempting to be used...I dunno why I even just now remembered it...
I can't find the actual aricle, but here's a neat one from Arstechnica (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2005/11/9/1781)
It basically says Apple has figure d out a way to do something similar, and if this can happen, and Apple can get the patent, then Apple will make the only computers in the world capable of running OSX, Linux and windows on the same machine. Here's the article for those afraid to click...
OS War! (huh-yeah) What is it good for?
As has been floating all over the internet today, there is OMG SCANDALOUS news of Apple apparently preparing for a full-on war with Windows once the Intel switch comes around. How so, you ask? Apparently a patent has been filed by Apple that allows them to protect the installation of OS X to Apple-specific hardware. Aha, you say, this is not new news! No, it's not, until you get to this part:
However, the patent describes a process whereby users would be able to load one of three operating systems as their primary OS and then load a secondary operating system as their secondary OS. In the patent application, titled, System and method for creating tamper-resistant code, they describe the process as thus:
22. The method of claim 20, wherein the first operating system is selected from the set consisting of Mac OS X, Linux, and Microsoft Windows.
23. The method of claim 20, wherein the second operating system is selected from the set consisting of Mac OS X, Linux, and Microsoft Windows.
Put simply, you may be able to run more than one of your favorite operating systems, or dare I say it, all three, on one machine
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I tried tinkering with pretty much everything in the bios. No change. This is the end game, I'm afraid this one may have to be lost since I'll have to leave the PC behind, it's my mother's PC. Ironic I didn't have any problem with the other ones including a laptop which I thought would give problems.
Anyways, this is the BIOS error it gives:
..MP-BIOS bug. timer not connected to IO-APIC
PCI: cannot allocate resource region 3 of device 0000:00:00.0
hdc: ide_intr: huh? expected NULL handler on exit
boot with the following kernel flags:
noapic noioapic
That might just work ... I know that 2.6.16 and up kernels won't boot on my laptop without this, due to POS BIOS
You may also try using a live CD with a kernel 2.6.15 or older and it may work without issue. (This includes DSL)
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The ubuntu forums was the first place I went to ask. I got no reply. Found a thread about it, none of the suggestions worked. The thing is that even selecting to check the cd gives the same error, so it's an IO problem. Can't do much about that other than switching computers. I had already tried the kernel flags. noapic noioapic apic=off ioapic=off. nothing. I'm afraid that POS PC is stuck with a POS OS. Btw, I tried a live cd with a 2.6.12 kernel distro and appearently had the same problem. Nothing loaded.
And about the OS blocking BIOS thing. It even loaded an XP disk, a pirate XP disk, windows 98, windows ME. So I guess if it is that, the BIOS does have it's preference.
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Whoah ... really :eek: Holy shit man ... what's going on, that shouldn't happen. Could it really be it locks out all OSs but Window$. Dammit, I'll have to look around for stuff on this tomorrow.
Hmmm ... have you tried BartPE (http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/) any BSD (http://www.freesbie.org/) or OpenSolaris (http://belenix.sarovar.org/) live CDs ?
I'm betting at least BartPE should work.
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Damn, here's ANOTHER page that suggests you have major compatibility issues between your graphics card and your motherboard:
http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0311.1/0544.html
And another:
http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0607.0/1409.html
I highly doubt this is a hardware lockout. It's probably just some really fucked up one-in-a-million hardware configuration. But I guess I should remember that when Microsoft was toying with lockout security on the Xbox, they hid the important BIOS code in the GPU, and then left a little decoy Flash BIOS in the expected location. So they're not necessarily above this sort of thing.
I still think it's a "fluke" accident, and there is some parameter you can pass somewhere or kernel config you can toggle.
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Yeah, it could be just a fluke. Like netscape and real player slowing down on windows. *shrug* it just happens!
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Maybe it's God
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Anyways, I only had a chance to d/l and burn and attempt one more, I tried Belenix. No cigar. I would have also tried HomerPE or whatever that is called, but it wouldn't surprise me if that worked. Nor would it be of much use in this case. So, MS and Comqrap win this round. Awesome bastards. They should do this kind of thing more often, we don't need weird non-windows on our shiny PCs. Belenix seems pretty good though, apart from all this crap Compaqs thing. The only thing I don't like is that molestor looking sun face.
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It may be compaq:
http://groups.google.com/group/linux.redhat.misc/browse_thread/thread/6038ca30bac35459/26b127a3cabbe245%2326b127a3cabbe245 (http://groups.google.com/group/linux.redhat.misc/browse_thread/thread/6038ca30bac35459/26b127a3cabbe245%2326b127a3cabbe245)
or it might just be a rare case of hardware incompatibility.
But if it is incompatibility then why does the UNIX kernel (from Belenix) still not boot ? Probably BSD won't boot either. Why can only Window$ boot ?
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Why? Hmm, who knows. It's just a fluke (those little parasitic creatures). Don't ask Comqrap or Microunit though. They didn't see nothin, they don't know nothin. Since I have no money it will have to wait but that PC will be replaced soon just for spite. I was already never going to buy anything with an integreated video card. Now I will add anything with "Compaq" written on it to that.
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Trade it in on an HP dv8000. Just be sure to get the nVidia card. ;)
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It's not mine so I can't go grab it and trade it. Besides, I also don't like HP. Not to the point of boycotting them but they have made some cheesy desktops in the past. I'm just going to buy some $100 after rebate PC that is not compaq sometime and replace it. Then I might put some dynamite inside that other one, take it out in the desert and put it to some use for a change. Or maybe just some really strong firecrackers. Dynamite is hard to come by for a regular person. My preference would be C-4 but that's impossible.
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Ah, I missed the part where you said it was a desktop and assumed you meant a laptop. Those used to be pretty crappy, but HP's quality is up somewhat from where it used to be, since the merger. Just steer well clear of Integrated Piece-of-Shit Inc. (whoops, sorry, I mean eMachines if Gateway even lets them market under that name anymore). BTW, nothing is impossible, just really unlikely. :D
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Well recently I've been looking for computers (laptops actually) and there are a lot of lesser known companies that make really good laptops much cheaper and better than the major manufacturers ... you might wanna look around a bit (try google). And I even found ones with NO OS PREINSTALLED !!! Hell yeah ... that makes me wanna buy it no matter the price ... but it was actually pretty cheap for it's specs.
Well I hope this doesn't count as advertising, but I just have to cite this example (no os installed)
http://www.xtremenotebooks.com/index.php?section=catagory&include_type=notebook (http://www.xtremenotebooks.com/index.php?section=catagory&include_type=notebook)
now, they run in the thousands ($800 minimum), but for their specs they are worth it. With those kind of specs I just wonder how they keep them from overheating.
For example this one:
http://www.xtremenotebooks.com/index.php?section=configurator®ular_model_id=1077&model_id=1080&include_type=14_inch&category= (http://www.xtremenotebooks.com/index.php?section=configurator®ular_model_id=1077&model_id=1080&include_type=14_inch&category=)
DUAL NVIDIA
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Approximately 2.0 Hours of Runtime
Why bother..
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I wouldn't pay that much for a pc anyways. I'd get an overpriced display before I ever went boring and tried to keep up with the latest stuff. A futile act. From how clueless OS folk seem, Mac people and even linux, I am sure now that Microsoft will stay around for a long time. The real public goes out and buys cheap store PCs with the preinstalled OS and uses it until it goes to hell. I went looking at the stores, PCs are really cheap now, and not really slow stuff either, just regular usable stuff with large hard disks. No matter how windows sucks it will be in there on cheap PCs. How many are are going to spend a bigger buck to get less CPU for the buck just because some dork somewhere cries that Mac is cool? Really few! I understand why computer companies bow to them. Resistance is futile. You are our lord and master MS, take us on the righteous path. Oh well, there's always linux shooting that tank with an air gun. Better than nothing.
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and uses it until it goes to hell.
I WISH! They use it until it looks like it's gone to hell, but really only the software is (Windows + malware).
maybe a reason so few OEMs ship computers with GNU/Linux preinstalled is that, is they ship GNU/Linux the computers won't get malware etc, so the people will wait longer before they buy a new computer, and them being greedy bastards don't want that.
Fucking everybody upgrades their computers too early, I use my computer more than 95% of people, do more CPU intensive tasks than 95% of them (subtract the gamers.. I just don't understand them at all) (estimations..), and my Athlon XP 2600+ w/ 256Mb ram that I built over 2 years ago (IIRC) for <
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Of course, that's what I meant by going to hell. Windows mucking up.
edit: because I misunderstood something.
But anyways, the truth is MS isn't going anywhere. It will dwell on disposable store PCs like cockroaches no matter what happens.
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maybe a reason so few OEMs ship computers with GNU/Linux preinstalled is that, is they ship GNU/Linux the computers won't get malware etc, so the people will wait longer before they buy a new computer, and them being greedy bastards don't want that.
That's only part of the equation. Another part is support. Let's say Compaq began selling laptops with Fedora Core pre-installed (forgetting the fact that Microsoft would punish them for this). If something were to go wrong, the Fedora Group/RHL takes no responsibility. Contrast that to Microsoft, who takes responsibility for their OEM installations. Ignore the fact that Microsoft support doesn't ever go beyond "reinstall". At least they have an obligation to the purchaser and to the vendor for support (even if it is only the illusion of support). The only way to get this from Linux is to install an enterprise Linux, which costs a shitload of money, making it a bad idea for consumer consumption.
All of this may mean shit to you or me, but it is something that Compaq and Microsoft and the Fedora Group take very seriously. That's
one reason you don't see too many Linux boxes at consumer retailers.
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I went to Fry's a while ago and saw tons of distros for sale ... they had (as far as I can remember):
Slackware, Redhat, Suse, Mandriva (I think), a number of other distros and FreeBSD.
I was kinda surprized, and they even had a Mac games section.
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That's only part of the equation. Another part is support. Let's say Compaq began selling laptops with Fedora Core pre-installed (forgetting the fact that Microsoft would punish them for this). If something were to go wrong, the Fedora Group/RHL takes no responsibility. Contrast that to Microsoft, who takes responsibility for their OEM installations. Ignore the fact that Microsoft support doesn't ever go beyond "reinstall". At least they have an obligation to the purchaser and to the vendor for support (even if it is only the illusion of support). The only way to get this from Linux is to install an enterprise Linux, which costs a shitload of money, making it a bad idea for consumer consumption.
All of this may mean shit to you or me, but it is something that Compaq and Microsoft and the Fedora Group take very seriously. That's
one reason you don't see too many Linux boxes at consumer retailers.
It's funny you say all this because the responsibility I see from MS about their OEM crap cakes matters diddly to an individual. Will MS replace anything or even give you a free Winblows CD right away if something goes wrong? Well maybe I've been missing the boat, but I've never seen that happen. And don't forget that many, if not most OEM windows machines just come as is, with no backup disk. I've never taken a system to have it fixed by MS. I don't even know anyone that has. My guess is that if it's not most now, it will get there quick. So with this situation, responsibility from MS to a PC buyer equals nothing. Windows is there because it's there and because MS is the boss, not because PC sellers and their customers are afraid to lose the illusion of support. Illusion is right, you said it.
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We all know that what you've said is true, that MS doesn't actually provide any actual support to their retail customers, and if the customers asked, they wouldn't respond. But they have somehow fooled them into thinking that they would, and Compaq uses this to their advantage. No sane person has ever called Windows technical support, mostly because there would be no point, and it isn't even toll free. But the fact that they have a telephone number makes all the difference to the idiots. Some people trust the name, even if the name (or the company behind it) doesn't offer any reason for trust. Retail culture is set up to deal with corporately branded products, and Linux isn't one of them.
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That's only part of the equation. Another part is support. Let's say Compaq began selling laptops with Fedora Core pre-installed (forgetting the fact that Microsoft would punish them for this). If something were to go wrong, the Fedora Group/RHL takes no responsibility. Contrast that to Microsoft, who takes responsibility for their OEM installations. Ignore the fact that Microsoft support doesn't ever go beyond "reinstall". At least they have an obligation to the purchaser and to the vendor for support (even if it is only the illusion of support). The only way to get this from Linux is to install an enterprise Linux, which costs a shitload of money, making it a bad idea for consumer consumption.
All of this may mean shit to you or me, but it is something that Compaq and Microsoft and the Fedora Group take very seriously. That's
one reason you don't see too many Linux boxes at consumer retailers.
Yea I said "maybe a reason...", but that is another reason. There are many companies trying to capitalise on the support-hole though, with a bit of effort and a bit of money I bet any OEM could make it work.
Really my point was that malware in a way does benefit Dell and MS etc because people think their computers are fucked (when they aren't, just the software is) so they buy new computers too early and too often (and if they installed GNU/Linux this would go away (to a large extent for a while)).
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with a bit of effort and a bit of money I bet any OEM could make it work.
And what do you know, HP just announced telephone support for Debian on selected HP computers (servers and thin clients).
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,126717/article.html
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Hey, that's good news. With more support maybe more people will switch or have less of a problem switching. The article only mentions support for Linux servers not desktops, but surely if you can support servers you can support desktops too.
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Hey, that's good news. With more support maybe more people will switch or have less of a problem switching. The article only mentions support for Linux servers not desktops, but surely if you can support servers you can support desktops too.
Let's not get too excited. Servers are usually lorded over by people who have at least some idea of what a computer is. Giving them telephone support is somewhat easy. Desktops are usually lorded over by people who can't tell the difference between a motherboard and the frame on their parents' bed. Giving them telephone support costs a lot of money and makes the supporters want to kill themselves.
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Giving them telephone support costs a lot of money and makes the supporters want to kill themselves.
Haha, well that depends on who works at tech support. Usually they don't have the best qualifications, nor do they need them. They just read off the solutions from a site or manual most of the time.
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That's true. One of my more esoteric jobs back in the dotcom days was to create a database of common solutions, so tech support emailers could just call up the right set of instructions. I spent a few days writing tech support emails, and I was incredibly good at it - I would joke around and be extremely sweet and helpful. But after like the 5th time I had to explain where the 'system tray' was, it got kinda old.