Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => macOS => Topic started by: sjor on 10 January 2006, 20:17
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Powerbook renamed= MacBook Pro!
iLife 6!
This is the thing we've all been waiting for.
MacBook Pro 4x faster than Powerbook!
iMac 2x faster!
Plus, it's a different intel chip to the ones we know, i think.
:macos:Apple:macos: (http://www.apple.com)
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MacBook Pro
Crappy name IMO. I would expect better from Apple...
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Sounds like an interesting chip. Not quite as fast as the G5, it seems, but pretty damn fast for a portable.
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I've already had one peecee apologist bitching. He enjoyed trying to punk down the MacBook Pro's Magsafe power cable.
"It's just a magnet! Anybody can do that!"
So I ask him, "Well then why didn't they? Why didn't Dell do that already? If it's so fucking easy, why hasn't someone done it? Oh, that's right... they're CHEAP AND SHITTY."
Thing is, now that Apple's done that, Dell and Alienware and all the other sheep are going to come and make something that looks the same, but is made of shitty silver painted plastic, and has some "safe" connector that's nothing but a ripoff, and use Core Duo procs and the PC press is going to be like OMG LOOK HOW WE GOT THE SAME THING!!
But it will be too late. This is what the computer world's been waiting for now for a decade. Apple's return... and a true imminent threat to the PC. Fortunately it's all rolled into one nice little package.
Goodbye PC with your shitty BIOS, hackneyed Plug and Pray, and piss poor hardware design.
I'm not going to miss you.
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I've already had one peecee apologist bitching. He enjoyed trying to punk down the MacBook Pro's Magsafe power cable.
"It's just a magnet! Anybody can do that!"
So I ask him, "Well then why didn't they? Why didn't Dell do that already? If it's so fucking easy, why hasn't someone done it? Oh, that's right... they're CHEAP AND SHITTY."
Thing is, now that Apple's done that, Dell and Alienware and all the other sheep are going to come and make something that looks the same, but is made of shitty silver painted plastic, and has some "safe" connector that's nothing but a ripoff, and use Core Duo procs and the PC press is going to be like OMG LOOK HOW WE GOT THE SAME THING!!
But it will be too late. This is what the computer world's been waiting for now for a decade. Apple's return... and a true imminent threat to the PC. Fortunately it's all rolled into one nice little package.
Goodbye PC with your shitty BIOS, hackneyed Plug and Pray, and piss poor hardware design.
I'm not going to miss you.
Why are you mocking the new apples?
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Why are you mocking the new apples?
Methinks you missed something - JJ hasn't mocked Apples since Puma.
Of course I have said it before - the PC companies have been fucking with you for years. They put in 2 pieces of futuristic hardware, and fill the rest of your box with cheap junk from old 386 Packard Bells. And they tell you that this is the best hardware out there, and point out how much cheaper it is than a Mac. Well, if 3/4 of the hardware is 10 years old, of course it is going to be cheap! Try building a decent PC yourself, and you will find that it is pretty damn expensive. For starters, you'll find that a decently bussed mobo is a lot of money. Most of the hard drives you find at BestBuy are crap - the good ones are much more expensive. And of course the economics of scale mean that you don't get a 20% volume discount for your homemade machine.
When someone says PCs are cheaper than Macs, what they actually mean is that a cheap shitty PC is cheaper than an average Mac. Well, that makes sense, doesn't it? Go out and price Intel Xenon machines with speedclocked busses and hard drives with decent seek times - see how much they cost. Macs don't look overpriced anymore, do they?
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Well over a year ago, I built this computer:
80GB 7200RPM Maxtor (IIRC) HDD
AMD Athlon XP 2600+
MSI 52x32x52 CD-RW drive
LG DVD drive
A-Open nForce4 motherboard with onboard GeForce 4 MX, firewire, USB, sound
A nice small case with 350W PSU
256MB RAM (IIRC PC2600, but I'm not sure)
It's a nice PC, and it cost me 300 euro. The keyboard, mouse, monitor and speakers I already had. I got the motherboard and the CPU second hand, something that couldn't be done so easily with Macs.
If I went for a Mac, I'd be paying twice as much for a Mac mini. EDIT: no, I wouldn't. They didn't exist.
No thanks.
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Methinks you missed something - JJ hasn't mocked Apples since Puma.
To worker you will listen. Save you he can! I've been a Mac guy for a long time. Dating back to a Power Mac 7200/120 and then later a 6500, to an iMac G3, and on and on... I ragged on early releases of OS X hard... because they didn't live up to promises. It's been several years now that OS X went past promises and is now delivering on wishes.
Re: all the random numbers and stuff that piratepenguin posted.
Who cares? Can't run Mac OS X on it.
Oh yeah, don't bring up OSX86... it's unsupported and PPC binaries won't run on it.
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It's a nice PC, and it cost me 300 euro.
I don't know much about exchange rates. But I do know that a G4 Powerbook would spank that box from here to Christmas.
Nothing against you. And honestly, nothing against x86 architecture either. It's Compaq and Hewlett-Packard and Sony VAIO that are the real criminals - they go to amazing lengths to keep their prices within a certain range, even if it means taking a loss on some parts. Apple has never done that, that's all I am saying.
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It can run GNU/Linux, which is my favourite operating system. I wouldn't run OS X on this even if it was supported and PPC binaries somehow would run on it.
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I don't know much about exchange rates. But I do know that a G4 Powerbook would spank that box from here to Christmas.
I'm sure it would. 300 euro, according to xe.com/ucc, is ~362USD. Get me an early 2005 Mac for that price, even second hand. Ship it over and gimme some benchmarks to run, if you will. The Mac would almost have to be G3 (for that price), and it would be toasted.
And honestly, nothing against x86 architecture either.
Try building a decent PC yourself, and you will find that it is pretty damn expensive.
I don't know what you meant by "decent", but in early 2005 this wasn't a bad machine.Apple has never done that, that's all I am saying.
Probably wasn't wise to bring in custom-built PCs.
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It can run GNU/Linux, which is my favourite operating system. I wouldn't run OS X on this even if it was supported and PPC binaries somehow would run on it.
Macs can and do run GNU/Linux. Also OSx86 as it is called is not meant to be a serious OS for PC's it's done by people because they can, almost everyone who has OSx86 installed dual boots and just plays around on OSx86.
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Probably wasn't wise to bring in custom-built PCs.
The main reason I mention custom-PCs is that it is very difficult to find top of the line PC hardware built into any consumer products. Your PC was clearly built with consumer products, which makes your PC an exception. Now, if you search around, you can find a workstation with the real top-of-the-line hardware. These are not consumer products, though. And they cost more than the most expensive Mac.
So, my argument, in toto: Mac consumer hardware is generally of higher quality than PC consumer hardware. In order to get PC hardware of a quality comparable to a Mac, you would have to spend more money. Thus, the common argument against Macs based on price alone is misleading and mostly false. That's it.
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Macs can and do run GNU/Linux.
Exactly, and if I had a Mac, first thing I'd do is install Ubuntu (and later some other distros or G/LFS again), wiping OS X to fuck off. OS X is a cool, simple OS, but that's not my kinda OS.
If I ever got a Mac, and I might, it'd be an iMac and it'd only be because they're so damn cool. But it'll probably never happen, because it'll probably always be cheaper for me to build a PC from parts, some second hand. And I don't mind the tower standing there in the corner, I don't mind things not being cool (holy crap I'm using a probably over 10 year old 15" COMPAQ monitor), but it'd still be cool to have an iMac. Other than that, if for some reason I wanted a laptop (maybe in the future), I'd almost definetly get one of these PowerMac Pros, because I don't like any other laptops I've seen.
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The main reason I mention custom-PCs is that it is very difficult to find top of the line PC hardware built into any consumer products. Your PC was clearly built with consumer products, which makes your PC an exception. Now, if you search around, you can find a workstation with the real top-of-the-line hardware. These are not consumer products, though. And they cost more than the most expensive Mac.
So, my argument, in toto: Mac consumer hardware is generally of higher quality than PC consumer hardware. In order to get PC hardware of a quality comparable to a Mac, you would have to spend more money. Thus, the common argument against Macs based on price alone is misleading and mostly false. That's it.
I agree with that but you said:Try building a decent PC yourself, and you will find that it is pretty damn expensive.
which I think is false.
That is all.
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OS X is a cool, simple OS, but that's not my kinda OS.
What exactly do you mean by this? Do you mean that OSX's coolness is not cool enough for you? Do you mean that simple is not something you look for in an OS? Or what?
The concept, the power, and the look of OSX can whomp anything else I have seen hands down. The combination of *nix power under the hood with a beautiful gui that you can use or not use, depending on your preferences, is futuristic and useful. I think that OSX is perhaps the perfect operating system. Grandmas can use it, hackers who love vi can use it, toolsmiths who like to script everything with perl can use it, graphic artists can use it, and filmmakers can use it too. It's incredible in its versatility.
OSX's only problem, as far as I can see, is that it is under Apple's control. This has never actually affected me in any way, but I can see how it could. Apple can lock out certain protocols or take over certain protocols if they choose, and although it hasn't happened yet, it could.
Don't get me wrong, I like Linux too. But I think OSX is the perfect medium between Linux and Windows, and I wish more people had the chance to realize that, because it would change the way a lot of people think about Windows.
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Why would you go to great lengths to replace OS X with something that is less? By leaving it in place, all you have to do is install a package manager, like apt-get, and install UNIX software. Then you run it.
Guess what? Go to an OS X machine and login as ">console"... and it dumps you at a text console! This is NeXTSTEP we're talking about here. It's a serious UNIX, and isn't meant to be taken lightly. This is the real thing... this is UNIX, not a *nix clone.
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What exactly do you mean by this? Do you mean that OSX's coolness is not cool enough for you? Do you mean that simple is not something you look for in an OS? Or what?
I definetly don't look for simple. And I only care about cool after ten minutes, when I wanna do something useful.
I don't think GNU/Linux is perfect for everyone, but I do think it's perfect for me. OS X has nothing on it. I can think of at least one quite significant thing that GNU/Linux has on OS X, and worker almost touched on it. Free gift* for whoever guesses it.
* may not recieve free gift.great lengths
What great lengths? I imagine I'd have a perfectly setup Ubuntu in no more than 40 mins. I most likely wouldn't stay on Ubuntu, but still.
Setting up a perfect GNU/Linux system on a Mac, I imagine, would be just like doing so on a PC. I wouldn't stay with OS X, because I'd rather switch to GNU/Linux. I prefer using GNU/Linux to OS X, it's what I'm confortable with, and there's nothing wrong with it (otherwise it might be worth getting used to OS X).
(Everything IMO.)
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I don't like guessing games. Post the answer. Knowledge is useless if nobody knows it.
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I don't like guessing games. Post the answer. Knowledge is useless if nobody knows it.
You can run a completely free (as in freedom), usable GNU/Linux system. Can't do that with OS X.
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That is important to some people. To some people, different things are important. For some people, religion is important. For others, it's science.
This... is no different.
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Why would you go to great lengths to replace OS X with something that is less? By leaving it in place, all you have to do is install a package manager, like apt-get, and install UNIX software. Then you run it.
Guess what? Go to an OS X machine and login as ">console"... and it dumps you at a text console! This is NeXTSTEP we're talking about here. It's a serious UNIX, and isn't meant to be taken lightly. This is the real thing... this is UNIX, not a *nix clone.
I just tried to login as ">console"
did nothing
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Are you set to login by entering a name and pw? Or are you using the pictures? It just worked for me.
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with the login screen set to username/password entry, '>console' places me right back at the login screen (no error, and the login prompt does not shake as if you entered info incorrectly)
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That is important to some people. To some people, different things are important. For some people, religion is important. For others, it's science.
This... is no different.
I'd call it morality rather than religion, I'm definetly a science man and definetly NOT a religous man.
I find GNU/Linux quite-perfect. Mac OS X doesn't offer any really good advantages over it for me. Even if Mac OS X was free, which OS I use might-just come down to a flick of a coin. Mac OS X isn't free, so I think I'll stick with GNU/Linux. It's the obvious choice for someone who likes to use a computer like I do and gives the slightest of shits about whether the software they use is free or not (and alot of people here do (not alot, but a bit), I think.).
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I'm actually pretty impressed with the MacBook Pro. Intel won't put out 65nm chips for PC's until Q3 06...and AMD 07. I haven't used OSX, but would 2,000 be worth a badass lappy + OSX?
Well over a year ago, I built this computer:
80GB 7200RPM Maxtor (IIRC) HDD
AMD Athlon XP 2600+
MSI 52x32x52 CD-RW drive
LG DVD drive
A-Open nForce4 motherboard with onboard GeForce 4 MX, firewire, USB, sound
A nice small case with 350W PSU
256MB RAM (IIRC PC2600, but I'm not sure)
It's a nice PC, and it cost me 300 euro. The keyboard, mouse, monitor and speakers I already had. I got the motherboard and the CPU second hand, something that couldn't be done so easily with Macs.
If I went for a Mac, I'd be paying twice as much for a Mac mini. EDIT: no, I wouldn't. They didn't exist.
No thanks.
how does an athlonXP go into the NF4 mobo... NF4 only does 939 and 754
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I'm actually pretty impressed with the MacBook Pro. Intel won't put out 65nm chips for PC's until Q3 06...and AMD 07. I haven't used OSX, but would 2,000 be worth a badass lappy + OSX?
how does an athlonXP go into the NF4 mobo... NF4 only does 939 and 754
i think he thought it was nforce 4 because of the built in GeForce 4 built in? nForce 2 is socket 462
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etement... consider this... $2000 for a dual-processing notebook, and the ability to boot between OS X, Windows for games, and Linux if you wish.
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i think he thought it was nforce 4 because of the built in GeForce 4 built in? nForce 2 is socket 462
Ah, that's right, nforce2.
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etement... consider this... $2000 for a dual-processing notebook, and the ability to boot between OS X, Windows for games, and Linux if you wish.
The MacBook uses EFI in place of BIOS. The only versions of Windows that support EFI are XP 64 (won't work) and Vista (not released). Unless, of course, Apple has put the BIOS emulation for EFI in there.
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Which I doubt they have. Until there's a radical hardware change in the PC market, people are not going to use EFI. Why would Apple have a BIOS emulator, they want you to buy their hardware?
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Didn't Gateway have EFI in their machines sometime?
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I just found out that the new Intel Macs have no support for Classic mode. Meaning that OS9 backwards compat is gone, over, finished. Now, this doesn't mean shit to me, since I don't use any Classic apps, and don't even have Classic mode installed on my Mac. But some people apparently still have these ancient abandonware programs that they consider mission-critical, which will never run on an Intel Mac. So with this particular facet of the move to Intel chips, a lot of diehard users will be left behind. Not that they're going to switch to Windows or anything, but it won't be the giant overnight switch Apple is pimping this as.
In Apple's defense, though, pimping ain't easy, and neither is adding some kind of crufted compatibility layer to the new OS.
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Yet it's surprising how many 680x0 programs will run with little more than the UNIX port of Basilisk. :cool:
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I am not sure Apple wants to be caught in the kind of situation as Microsoft; perpetually supporting old technology like DOS. We all knew the Classic environment would was only there to ease the transititioin, people got the hint when new Macs could no longer boot into Mac OS 9. Classic was not going to stay around forever.
Just out of curiosity, what mission-critical software is there that only exists for Classic?
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MS have stopped supporting DOS long ago, I think the oldset OS they currently support is Windows 98 which is more than old enough, just thinking I've contradicted myself, Windows 98 is DOS based.
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Didn't Gateway have EFI in their machines sometime?
Gateway is working hard to keep good components out of their computers, just like Dell.
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Just out of curiosity, what mission-critical software is there that only exists for Classic?
The article I read was by a teacher, and his gradebook software was Classic. The guy is also very fond of an ancient anacrostic generator - which unless you work for Wheel of Fortune is NOT mission critical. When he used the term 'mission critical', I think he was kinda exagerating.