Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => macOS => Topic started by: hm_murdock on 2 November 2002, 04:19
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I'm doing what was, just a few months ago... unthinkable. I'm going to buy a friend's used PC.
I'm getting it with the intention of running Linux on it, but the scary part is... I'm actively looking at ways that I could make it my... main computer, displacing my beloved iMac.
Why, do you ask? While I love Macs, more and more, I find myself driven toward the Old World hardware (Beige G3, Wallstreet Powerbook and before) and find it to be better than current offerings. The older machines were simply better made, better designed, and IMHO, just better computers than what Apple makes now.
For the era they existed in, the old school Macs were the pinnacle of desktop or portable computing. Today, a Mac is just a novelty. I have an iMac, yay. I can run Mac OS X, which is great, but I could run Linux on a PC and get the same stability, more speed, and at a lower cost. I wanted an iBook, but I'm not paying $1500 to get an extra 200MHz, a DVD drive, a tiny screen, a relatively small HD, and pissing 128MB of RAM.
Well, it's been an interesting year or two as a "die-hard" Mac fan, but those days are numbered. I'll just finally become an uber-geek who has no true preference for anything... just gimme a damn computer, as long as it don't run Windows!
I'm not leaving you fellow Macheads, by any means. I'm just no longer crusading for only the Mac. I'm now crusading for UNIX. I just happen to think that OS X is THE BEST UNIX on the planet.
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i know what you mean about old world macs :-( I'm still runnin a quadra700 perfectly happily, the design and attention to detail just can't be equaled now from any OEM including Apple! But, I have recently got a G4, a Graphite one, and I have to say even these (those?) days, Apple are far ahead in design and I'm not just talking about external hardware design, i mean design from the bottom up - the hardware the software, just the little things that count for SO much :) Basically I TRUST my computer every day and I know I will for many years to come!
But, these days knowing Apple, there's never a good time to buy because you know something bigger/better is just around the corner.... look at Xserve, you know they are going to incorporate more and more of that tech into the next PowerMacs.
I know, I am rambling :) But I love Apple computers, I HATE Apple CORP!
No change there ;)
But of course anything non MS is f**kin good!
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I also hate Apple the company. since Steve came back, they've sucked. Even when Gil Amelio was CEO, they cared about their clientele. Old school Apple was known for making a dufus decision every now and then, but at least they didn't put the cart before the horse, as they do so much now.
Sure, they've got great stuff, but... they don't have any original stuff. Newton is gone. All the really badass features that they had (video I/O on the Quadra AV series and the Power Macs, integrated software with ROMs, et cetera, are gone. With the 8600/9600/Beige G3s, you weren't just getting a desktop powerhouse, you were buying a workstation-class machine.
It just ain't so anymore. That, and Apple seems to be pretty mean. They've become just another faceless corporation who we only know through the CEO. There used to be Mac heroes like Jef Raskin, and guys like that who made the classic Mac so great.
I just got into it all much too late!
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I agree. Apple the company as of late has really, really sucked. Used to be they'd actually let your warranty through even if you had installed your own RAM. No more, kids.
Linux is looking better and better, I'm sorry to say. When confronted with a $150 hostage fee to run new versions of programs that worked fine a month ago (hellooooooo 8.5), I'm not really willing to go with Steve and good grace on this one.
If Apple doesn't shape up soon, it looks like my next box might be an x86, which is the saddest thing I think I've ever said. :(
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**slaps some sense into you** Come on guys! How can you turn your back on Apple? Sure they're having some problems, but what's the alternative? x86, and that's dominated by M$. Plus, x86 boxes aren't as elegant as Macs. Believe me, the cost is worth it when you've got to deal with IRQ, DMA and PCI settings. Not to mention kernel panics, processor overheats and massive electrical bills from running the machines. The Mac is a superior machine. You get what you pay for.
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You guys are gonna get it when the webmaster sees this.
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Now go to your room!
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LOL m0r!
I am using a PBG3 now, but that's just cuz I'm too cheap to buy a newer one. I would GLADLY have bought a new iBook or PowerBook if I had the money.
Older Macs are great, and have lots of value. Mac hardware doesn't depreciate like PC hardware. PC hardware is worth shit in 18 months, and a Mac that old can get 3/4 to 2/3 the orig. price.
That's cuz there's no reason to go out and buy new hardware every 1.5 to 2 years. The Mac OS isn't getting more and more bloated like Winblows is.
Macs are the best out there right now in my opinion, and I have no plans to switch to all x86 any time soon.
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I don't think I'll move from the Mac for my primary machine anytime soon (my trusty 604 seems to keep pulling the wagon year after year), but for my secondary web-browsing and coding machines Linux looks really, really attractive.
I still think the Mac is a great platform. The best hardware and software out there. But the business behind it is really not impressing me in the least. They've gone from the friendly company that they used to be to a cold, hard, bitch like the dotcom-era Sun.
Sun got it in the end, and I'm afraid Apple might get the same treatment if they continue to put the bottom line before their customers like they have been as of late.
[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: Ravuya ]
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quote:
I also hate Apple the company. since Steve came back, they've sucked.
Haw haw! If I'd have posted such an opinion, I'd be hung by my toes, and X11 would proceed to post rants in the lounge about how he wants to rape and/or kill me.
I agree though. Apple sucks. Macs don't suck but they will if they don't drop the price OR improve the speed.
[ November 02, 2002: Message edited by: Windows XP User #5225982375 ]
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There's nothing wrong with the speed. As far as I can notice, my iMac seems to actually do things with a decent speed as compared to the glacial speed of XP.
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Don't lie, XP is faster than you can possibly imagine.
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"faster than I can possibly imagine" doesn't include the fact that I'm afraid of clicking on some files because Internet Explorer may load, and by the time it's finished and returned control of my computer to me, I've lost 3 or 4 minutes of my life to the damn thing.
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I dont think xp is very fast. I use it evryday at work. It does some things I like, but all in all, I think it sucks, and I am very happy to come home to my mac. I like the macs, especially os10.2. Had I been an old school mac user (pre osX) I would probably feel differently. People dont like change, and apple certainly changed their style. Maybe the company sucks, but they build a very nice machine. And I think its worth the money.
If I had to go back to x86, I would probably use redhat 8.0. fuck a windows. fuck a xp.
ecsyle-one
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Let's just say I'd love to have a beige G3 and a middling AMD. That'd be the optimum duo for me!
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PEOPLE! Jeezz... have some faith!
The Power4 is just on the horizon.
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Heh, it looks like Linux is converting Maccies to PC. If this becomes a common trend in Mac land, Linux will end up taking Apple out while it barely hurts MS. ;P
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Except for the fact that there are far more Windows users converting to Linux than Mac users.
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I dunno, I said it once, I'll say it again. The day Apple is out, is the day I give up computers.
I don't know about bussness politics etc. All I know is that I like their products over all the others plain and simple. I don't know about this chips better than this, or that mobo is better than this one etc. etc. All I know is that my Dual 800 G4 does everything I wan't and more. So why the hell do I want a PC running wintel or Linux?
And as for Job's, be patient folks! God people have short memories, you do realize that Job's pulled Apple out of the gutter in the midninties, it was Jobs who has put Apple back on the map as major computer company, and it will be Job's who fixes the current ailments.
Let's not forget that this is actually steves company. He started this in his garage with the Woz in the 70's. He has a personal stake in it's success and it has nothing to do with the bottom line, Job's invisioned the personal computer, and is truely one of the godfathers of the phenomena.
So, have faith folks, Apple will be around for a very long time. It will have it's ups and downs, but that comes with the territory.
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Well, to tell you the truth I've never had a Mac before in my life so I can't compare newer Macs with older ones. However, I know for a fact that my iBook is better built and more reliable than any other x86 laptop I've ever owned.
Furthermore, Mac OS and OS X are great operating systems, eventhough I seem to like Classic more and more each day, with the latter being the best *NIX like OS out there. I agree that it still needs a lot of work in terms of speed when compared to Classic but all in all it's just great.
To conclude: I was sorry to read that Jimmy James is so bittered but I don't think I will agree with him for the time being. After all Apple is Jobs's company after all, so what's the fuss around that?
PS: Jimmy James, there's a greek site written in English, from people who might or might not share the same opinions with you. Check it out. (http://www.wormintheapple.gr) ;)
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Mac people write to much
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losing a battle does not loose the war.
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I remember using my first mac around the time of win3.11 still being mainstream. We had a classroom full of these shitty boxes with windows and in the corner were 5 of the most stunning machines i had seen. All white neat an compact 4 of them were apple pc's and the 5th was a black and white apple mac laptop computer with those rollers balls for a mouse. I preferred them to anything at the time and i've always wanted a mac since then.
The GUI was so much more than windows and still is, the only reason why i got a pc was because i was 13 and it was compatible with everything else.
shame...but anyway, a mac is the next pc i will buy. I already got an AMD machine and a laptop so a new pc isn't needed.
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I think the reason Apple appears to suck to most of us is because with the release of OS X Apple knows it can get ahead partially by using money-making strategies that may include lousy service, but the only thing it needs to do is get some better ads. What they need to do is not show people talking about mac, not show the macs themselves, but show OS X in action.
I also know what you mean by the old hardware being more stabile. I still run an old Performa 6115 and an even older Centris 610 for word processing and stuff (and i would feel bad if i got rid of them). The Centris has never crashed or froze once in ten years and the Performa only crashed when the fan inside broke down. Although they are as slow as crap, they are still very dependable machines. In the ten months that I've owned my Quicksilver G4, however, it has frozen maybe five times, but I don't recall it ever crashing. Not a problem, but it would be great if I still had the reliability of my old computers.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Heh, it looks like Linux is converting Maccies to PC. If this becomes a common trend in Mac land, Linux will end up taking Apple out while it barely hurts MS. ;P
This is kind of disturbing. What if Linux goes down in flames and all the Mac users that have converted to PC to use Linux are forced to start using Windows?
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Uh, you don't have to worry about Linux going down in flames any time soon, or likely ever. But don't be too worried about Mac people converting to Linux, far more Windoids are converting than Mac people. In fact there are probably as many or more Linux people converting to Mac than the other way around.
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I have tried and tried to like linux and I honestly don't get the fascination with it. I have tried Red Hat, Mandrake and another that I can't remember the name of off hand. In my opinion, the GUI's suck, both KDE and GNOME, and, again, before linux person freaks out, a command line OS is a step backward. In the real world people like it to be easy and able to learn it quickly.
Until there is a decent gui for Linux with tighter integration, I don't see you average small business owner or casual home owner switching to linux. Speaking as a consultant, Linux is great is some respects. But in the real world, i.e. business world user applications, don't expect to see "the secretary" or "a small business owner" or a "casual home user" to switch to Linux for some time.
As far as my argument for linux/unix needing a good gui, I suppose OSX is it. I believe that OSX is the future.
Just an opinion.
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I'm back... I'd have been there in the thick of things, but I had my b-day thing... it was a waste. good friends and good times, but it could have been so much better if only everybody could've been there!
anyway, I never wished a pox on Apple. In fact, I wish them well, in hopes that their current ways will change. I hate the way they are now, but not how they were. I'm definitely going to get another Apple computer, probably one of the Power Macs next year with the PPC975. That's gonna be when they start to take names and kick rear end. But until then, there's no point in getting something new.
Mac OS X is the best UNIX available, hands down. It's just not running on hardware that's truly good enough for it. The PPC975 will definitely fix that.
I just hope they'll keep G3-powered stuff and move it down to a lower price-range so that they can compete with Dell.
I, too, agree though that if Apple goes, even in its current form, it's over for computing!
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quote:
Originally posted by The Jimmy James X 10.3.6 / Bob:
Mac OS X is the best UNIX available, hands down. It's just not running on hardware that's truly good enough for it. The PPC975 will definitely fix that.
I don't agree. Apple could quite possibly have the best GUI that sits on top of UNIX but Darwin isn't even close to being the best UNIX, in fact it's quite a ways down the line.
Legally, it's not even UNIX, but am totally against the Open Group's trademark so it is UNIX in my book, and also in my book so is Linux.
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2 things. Apple recently released the new version of Darwin for x86 I hear it is MUCH improved.
Also, I must agree with Jimmy about OSX being the best DESKTOP UNIX variant. For normal users, it's the bomb.
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quote:
Originally posted by Tbar:
I have tried and tried to like linux and I honestly don't get the fascination with it. I have tried Red Hat, Mandrake and another that I can't remember the name of off hand. In my opinion, the GUI's suck, both KDE and GNOME, and, again, before linux person freaks out, a command line OS is a step backward. In the real world people like it to be easy and able to learn it quickly.
Until there is a decent gui for Linux with tighter integration, I don't see you average small business owner or casual home owner switching to linux. Speaking as a consultant, Linux is great is some respects. But in the real world, i.e. business world user applications, don't expect to see "the secretary" or "a small business owner" or a "casual home user" to switch to Linux for some time.
As far as my argument for linux/unix needing a good gui, I suppose OSX is it. I believe that OSX is the future.
Just an opinion.
I have to agree. The Linux Window Managers have a terrible GUI. They are nowhere as easy to use, they don't look as neat&Clean, They aren't as functional(despite what Linux Zealots say), etc.
I've already said this in another thread, but I think Linux looks and feels really Generic(what can you expect from a free OS though?).
Linux is great for a server because you can have the machine running 24/7 in like a closet, basement, etc. where it's ugly ass doesn't have to be seen anybody. If Microsoft ever went down I would jump ship to Apple way before I would even consider using Linux(a nerdy geeks' OS) as my OS. If Apple ever makes a good port of OSX(Darwin) to PC with Aqua I will definatley have a dual boot setup(Windows and OSX). To be honest, I think Apple would make alot of money if they would release a good OSX to x86...all even go as far as to say they would probably make 2x-4x the money they make now just by providing good x86 software and OSes instead of selling propriarity computers that only runs thier OS and a few Linuxes(or they could stick to both methods of sale).
The only reason why Linux Zealots love Linux so much is because it isn't made by Microsoft and it didn't cost them any money. Linux has nothing great or compelling to offer a user that Windows doesn't already have.
[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Macman / Bob:
This is kind of disturbing. What if Linux goes down in flames and all the Mac users that have converted to PC to use Linux are forced to start using Windows?
Linux wont die is the thing it cant and is impossible, its like "Nailing zombies dick to a tree, he doesnt have one" Linux has no center, even if all the Linux companys went bust, development would still continue.
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X11 the ad in your sig is pathetic. I can't believe you're helping to spread that rubbish around. Please, think of the children!
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quote:
Originally posted by Tbar:
I have tried and tried to like linux and I honestly don't get the fascination with it. I have tried Red Hat, Mandrake and another that I can't remember the name of off hand. In my opinion, the GUI's suck, both KDE and GNOME, and, again, before linux person freaks out, a command line OS is a step backward. In the real world people like it to be easy and able to learn it quickly.
Until there is a decent gui for Linux with tighter integration, I don't see you average small business owner or casual home owner switching to linux. Speaking as a consultant, Linux is great is some respects. But in the real world, i.e. business world user applications, don't expect to see "the secretary" or "a small business owner" or a "casual home user" to switch to Linux for some time.
As far as my argument for linux/unix needing a good gui, I suppose OSX is it. I believe that OSX is the future.
Just an opinion.
Eventhough I agree about OS X's Aqua GUI, which is the best around, I don't agree with your remarks about Linux window managers. KDE and GNOME look and behave much better than they did in earlier versions! All you have to do is have a look at RedHat 8.0's KDE and GNOME window managers, that are now more functional than ever (and better looking may I add).
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quote:
Originally posted by Windows XP User #5225982375:
X11 the ad in your sig is pathetic. I can't believe you're helping to spread that rubbish around. Please, think of the children!
LOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOL!!!!!!
Surely, it's a Joke :D
Coul'd you just link to it without the banner X? The flashing thing is rather epileptic.
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Well if more people click it the sooner i go away, if i get 80 clicks i get one for free, and i see if its a load of shit. If it is, a big flame goes to the person making it, and a rant goes on my site (now theres a testimony).
It almost looks authentic... (The sites to crappy for it not to be)
So try clicking and buying one!
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quote:
Originally posted by The Czar:
Come on guys! How can you turn your back on Apple? Sure they're having some problems, but what's the alternative? x86, and that's dominated by M$.
And whose fault is that? consumers, that's who. mac fanatics cannot seem to understand the fdifference between hardware and software. it is quite easy really, but maybe it is because apple makes both that it is so confusing. quote:
Plus, x86 boxes aren't as elegant as Macs.
well that's an important factor isn't it! how can you actually even say that, when the box you put your computer in can be as elegant or inelegant as you like? i have seen plenty of elegant cases for AT and ATX size stuff, so what's the problem? quote:
Not to mention kernel panics, processor overheats and massive electrical bills from running the machines.
You're having me on when you say that the difference in electrical consumption is a seriously different enough factor to make you want to buy a mac over a 'PC'. What's the difference in price between a macintosh and its equivelant 'PC', and then compare that with how long it will take you to save the same money in electricity bills?
And as for kernel panics, firstly macOS has these, second of all, if you persist in not seeing the difference between hardware and software then there is little point in me continuing. quote:
The Mac is a superior machine. You get what you pay for.
True, macintosh is a better machine, and it is more expensive, but you must allow people to buy mid-price kit as well, otherwise we are looking at an apple monopoly, and that *would* be ugly.
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quote:
Originally posted by Tbar:
and, again, before linux person freaks out, a command line OS is a step backward. In the real world people like it to be easy and able to learn it quickly.
that's why macs exist. macs are for middle managers and home use, unix is for nerds and scientists. => macs are for idiots, unix is for geeks. what's windows for?
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Until there is a decent gui for Linux with tighter integration,
whatever that means... and what does it mean exactly? quote:
I don't see you average small business owner or casual home owner switching to linux.
do we care? linux is not a company. iunlike microsoft and apple, linux does not care if you use it. quote:
Speaking as a consultant, Linux is great is some respects. But in the real world, i.e. business world user applications, don't expect to see "the secretary" or "a small business owner" or a "casual home user" to switch to Linux for some time.
see previous answer, however i am a casual home user and so is my girlfriend. she uses kde3 and i use XFce, and we are both quite happy with linux, thank you very much. linux and macOSX are not in the same market, they do not apply to the same people, the people who choose to use linux are different people to those who use a mac, and in the odd case where they are not, you can bet the reasons for somebody using a mac are different for the same persons reasons for using linux.
the GUI issue has blurred this area somewhat but i think that stuff i just said still holds true.
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As far as my argument for linux/unix needing a good gui, I suppose OSX is it. I believe that OSX is the future.
hmm, don't know about you, but i think monopolies are a *bad* thing. I am a person who thinks that having X windows as the only way of displaying graphics in linux is a bit iffy. there should always be an alternative way for everything.
[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: Calum-21.2 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ex Eleven / b0b 2.1:
Linux wont die is the thing it cant and is impossible, its like "Nailing zombies dick to a tree, he doesnt have one" Linux has no center, even if all the Linux companys went bust, development would still continue.
Oh no, I sure don't. Because I have no dick, I never have to piss either. :rolleyes: You are a god damn idiot man. I don't even get why I take my time to reply to the guy who has been deemed the newest troll of this forum. Why don't you go self promote your own crappy, poorly coded software or something? Oh yeah, that ad-banner in your sig sucks(I have it handidly bloced ;P). Go get a job and you won't have to rely on ad banners for $$$.
Is there any way that I can block Ex Eleven to where I don't have to see any of his spam posts? I know I can block getting private messages from him, but that isn't good enough.
[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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I have allways resented the "Mac's are for idiot's" rhetoric. That certainly is not the case seeing as how you can get just as technical with OSX as you can with *NIX.
M$ is for idiots, especially XP which has totaly done away with it's techie side.
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax v6.9 /Dave:
I have allways resented the "Mac's are for idiot's" rhetoric. That certainly is not the case seeing as how you can get just as technical with OSX as you can with *NIX.
Once more, I totally agree! ;) You could even get technical with Classic, a lot more than you could with Windows!
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum-21.2:
True, macintosh is a better machine, and it is more expensive, but you must allow people to buy mid-price kit as well, otherwise we are looking at an apple monopoly, and that *would* be ugly.
Macs aren't better machines. Macs are behind in hardware technology. They still use slow ass SDRAM...while PC's are capapble of using DDR RAM(twice of what SDRAM is) and RAMBUS(has superior memory bandwidth). MAcs are still barely crossing the ghz barrier while our PC's are making it over 3ghz, and yeah, our fastest PC's handidly beat out the fastest Mac offerings. How fast are the IDE hard drive transfer modes in Macs? Don't they only do a maximum transfer mode of ATA-66 or do they actually do ATA-100 now? Sorry, PC's have the MAc beat there too. In PC World we have ATA-133 emerging and we are getting a new IDE standard called Serial ATA that will tremendously boost the hard drive performance on our future motherboards(it will be alot faster even if using an old hard drive on a new Serial ATA capable motherboard). Macs have firewire, big deal. We have Firewire and we also have USB 2.0(which happens to be a little faster than Firewire).
The PC market isn't controled by one company(Apple tries to control the hardware and software market...at least MS only controls software ;P), you can build your own PC easily, and you can easily upgrade stuff in your PC. Say next year you want to slap a 5ghz CPU in your machine to replace your already fast 3ghz CPU. Ok, no problem..you just pull out your old CPU and put the new one in(unless you are getting a different type of CPU..then you will need a motherboard which isn't all that expensive).
With a Mac, what do you do when you want to upgrade that pathetic 800mhz machine? You can't just put a new CPU into it because the CPU happens to be soddered on the motherboard(like some old 386's and 486's used to be). I guess you just throw your existing machine in the trash or give it to a bum and go buy a whole new machine just to upgrade your processor speed.
Saying the MAc is elegant is BS. You can get PC cases that look just as good as or look even better than a Mac's case. PC people tend to be more crafty than MAccies too. If we don't like the way our case looks we simply pull out the dremel and a few other tools and we mod our cases. I think it is a good thing that all PC's don't look alike and I think it would suck if every household had a Mac because there would be no variety in computer looks other than the little variety that Apple gives you.
Macs are overpriced and overrated for what they really are(they are out dated).
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ho hum. zombie 90210, why is it that you never answer any of my serious posts? even you should be able to see that this one was just a bit tongue in cheek. you always seem to want me to get down to the nitty gritty, and then when i do, you fail to respond.
also, what does 'handidly' mean? (you used it in your last two posts).
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum-21.2:
ho hum. zombie 90210, why is it that you never answer any of my serious posts? even you should be able to see that this one was just a bit tongue in cheek. you always seem to want me to get down to the nitty gritty, and then when i do, you fail to respond.
also, what does 'handidly' mean? (you used it in your last two posts).
Doh, I meant to put handily. I probably mis-spelled both times because I always type as fast as I can and I don't take time to proof-read my posts. ;P
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and as for my other question? or will you evade that as well in true zombie90210 style?
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quote:
Saying the MAc is elegant is BS. You can get PC cases that look just as good as or look even better than a Mac's case. PC people tend to be more crafty than MAccies too. If we don't like the way our case looks we simply pull out the dremel and a few other tools and we mod our cases. I think it is a good thing that all PC's don't look alike and I think it would suck if every household had a Mac because there would be no variety in computer looks other than the little variety that Apple gives you.
Hmm, what about, say, someone taking the paint off their TiBook? Like, um, me? (http://smile.gif) There, customized! No dremel needed!
Also, I think it would suck if every household had Windows becasue there would be no variety in looks other than the little variety that MS gives you. ;)
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zombie90210 is silent. just like he always is as soon as the polylogue gets interesting...
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Hey Zombie, for one, it's spelled "soldered."
Second, every PowerMac since the beige box in 1997 can take a ZIF processor upgrade.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
You can't just put a new CPU into it because the CPU happens to be soddered on the motherboard(like some old 386's and 486's used to be).
Yes, i love that, what tools do you use for your sodderring, zombie? :D quote:
I guess you just throw your existing machine in the trash or give it to a bum
aha! i wondered why i see so many bums on the streets around here all computing on their macintoshes! now i know, thanks for enlightening me, zombie!
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(edited- merged both posts into one post. go ahead and delete this post mods.
[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by cocoamix:
Hey Zombie, for one, it's spelled "soldered."
Second, every PowerMac since the beige box in 1997 can take a ZIF processor upgrade.
Then why have we had a few G4 Macs come into the shop that had thier CPU soldered on the board(not socketed)?
quote:
Originally posted by Calum & his insidious little spies:
zombie90210 is silent. just like he always is as soon as the polylogue gets interesting...
Actually I got silent because I had to go to work(some of us do work you know). ;)
quote:
Yes, i love that, what tools do you use for your sodderring, zombie?
Bleh, I told you that I get in a hurry when I type and I don't proof-read before I post. Oh well, to be a smartass I'll just answer by saying that you would use a "soddering" iron and "sodder". So I forgot an L in the word, sue me.
[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
Eventhough I agree about OS X's Aqua GUI, which is the best around, I don't agree with your remarks about Linux window managers. KDE and GNOME look and behave much better than they did in earlier versions! All you have to do is have a look at RedHat 8.0's KDE and GNOME window managers, that are now more functional than ever (and better looking may I add).
Don't get me wrong, I think they are much much better than the past, as with everything. But they are still not quite there. As far as the integration goes, as I had mentioned in a previous post, being able to run the OS from the GUI only. Software installation is still a pain for the average non-linux user. When a Windows user or Mac User can hop over to a Linux Machine, install a program, etc. Then I think you will have one hell of a platform. Until then, if you are adamant about the stability of a Unix/Linux OS, again, OS X is the one.
P.S. Someone else stated something about not liking Monopolies. I'm not FORCED to use Windows, MAC, or LINUX, so...I don't really see any of them as a monopoly. Mono...means One.
There have always been and always will be choices, at least for your "personal" computer.
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quote:
Originally posted by Tbar:
P.S. Someone else stated something about not liking Monopolies. I'm not FORCED to use Windows, MAC, or LINUX, so...I don't really see any of them as a monopoly. Mono...means One.
There have always been and always will be choices, at least for your "personal" computer.
Monopoly, Monopolitai, One set of rulers, or rather one government. That is M$ makes the rules in the computer industry as a whole. They are a monopoly, and an unfair one at that.
and that freedom won't be there if they get their way. *cough* Paladium *cough* TCPA *cough* DRM *cough*
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax v6.9 /Dave:
Monopoly, Monopolitai, One set of rulers, or rather one government. That is M$ makes the rules in the computer industry as a whole. They are a monopoly, and an unfair one at that.
and that freedom won't be there if they get their way. *cough* Paladium *cough* TCPA *cough* DRM *cough*
If it comes down to MS ruling the computer industry and you want freedom....simply don't use a computer and you will be free. ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
If it comes down to MS ruling the computer industry and you want freedom....simply don't use a computer and you will be free. ;)
As flippant as your remark maybe, we are fast aproaching a time when computer litteracy will be a rulling factor in our lives such is reading and writting. It will pervade every aspect of culture.
We see the evidence around us and we are arguable even in those times. Computers are fast becomminga "need" for modern life.
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quote:
Originally posted by Tbar:
Don't get me wrong, I think they are much much better than the past, as with everything. But they are still not quite there. As far as the integration goes, as I had mentioned in a previous post, being able to run the OS from the GUI only. Software installation is still a pain for the average non-linux user. When a Windows user or Mac User can hop over to a Linux Machine, install a program, etc. Then I think you will have one hell of a platform. Until then, if you are adamant about the stability of a Unix/Linux OS, again, OS X is the one.
I definitely agree to that. (http://smile.gif)
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Well, since I made my initial post I went out and tried to rediscover why it is why I use a Mac. Guess why? It isn't the software, it isn't the hardware, it isn't even the company. It's the community involved with it.
We have this whole kind of us-against-the-world thing going on that's really great. Mac users are quirky, offbeat, and oftentimes some of the most technically proficient and funny people I have ever met.
So, if for no other reason than the community that churns out hacks, games and great new inventions, I'm not going to leave the Mac, because I remember what happened the last time I did... The Registry. (shudders)
Re: Macs for idiots, UNIX for geeks, what is Windows for?
Windows is for retards.
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I was raised on x86 machines. I have years of experience with them and windows and linux. Know what? I switched to the Mac. Before the switch ads, before the massive marketing campaign, before OS X. I'd rather use my PM 7100/80 over any of my x86 boxes. After windows shitting it's pants every 6 weeks and the incomprehensible mess of linux, the Mac is the only real option for me. The Mac works. Period.
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quote:
Originally posted by Ravuya:
Well, since I made my initial post I went out and tried to rediscover why it is why I use a Mac. Guess why? It isn't the software, it isn't the hardware, it isn't even the company. It's the community involved with it.
We have this whole kind of us-against-the-world thing going on that's really great. Mac users are quirky, offbeat, and oftentimes some of the most technically proficient and funny people I have ever met.
So, if for no other reason than the community that churns out hacks, games and great new inventions, I'm not going to leave the Mac, because I remember what happened the last time I did... The Registry. (shudders)
Amen to that
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quote:
Originally posted by Macman / Bob:
Amen to that
Here, Here!
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yes! that's the very reason why I'll never be able to leave the Mac behind now that I've had one.
Take one look at websites like lowendmac.com, applefritter.com, places like that, and you'll see that we're not just a bunch of users, or a bunch of geeks, but people with a common tie.
I might not be a Mac Evangelist anymore, but I'm no less of a Mac lover. Apple, I think, is having an identity crisis. They're caught between being a boutique consumer oriented company and a high-end workstation maker.
They've got the hardware and the software... but they're not able to get the word out.
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oh, shit, calum, i'm sorry. i clicked the "edit" button instead of the "quote" button and it looks like i overwrote your post. really, really, really stupid of me.
- rav
[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: Ravuya ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ravuya:
Well, since I made my initial post I went out and tried to rediscover why it is why I use a Mac. Guess why? It isn't the software, it isn't the hardware, it isn't even the company. It's the community involved with it.
We have this whole kind of us-against-the-world thing going on that's really great. Mac users are quirky, offbeat, and oftentimes some of the most technically proficient and funny people I have ever met.
So, if for no other reason than the community that churns out hacks, games and great new inventions, I'm not going to leave the Mac, because I remember what happened the last time I did... The Registry. (shudders)
Re: Macs for idiots, UNIX for geeks, what is Windows for?
Windows is for retards.
Amen to that too! :D
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax v6.9 /Dave:
Here, Here!
Tell it like it is, brother!
By and large, the Mac community is just that: a community.
By and large a nice, helpful bunch. Only a Mac user knows what it's like to spot a sign of a Mac user on the street, like a bumper sticker, pulling beside them, giving a tumbs up, and having the other guy know immediately what you're giving him the thumbs up for.
I swear, do you ever see a Windoze user go up to another one and say, "Oh, cool, another PC user! Microsoft rocks."
There's a reason Mac users love their OS and community so much. PC users will never get that part.
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'PC' users. listen to yourselves. no wonder you all think the rest of the world's against you, and no wonder OSX is based on BSD, comparing some of the smug comments to those voiced by users of the various BSD systems.
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum & his insidious little spies:
'PC' users. listen to yourselves. no wonder you all think the rest of the world's against you, and no wonder OSX is based on BSD, comparing some of the smug comments to those voiced by users of the various BSD systems.
So what makes you think the term "PC users" was meant as a derogatory statement?
Should I have said "non-Mac users?"
Was there a more concise way for me to identify people who use PC's than "PC user?"
And since when is it smug to simply state that you belong to a friendly community?
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"PC user" isn't PC.
It should be "Person of IBM-compatiblity"
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quote:
Originally posted by The Jimmy James X 10.3.6 / Bob:
It should be "Person of IBM-compatiblity"
Hey, if my Mac has an IBM Copper G3, that would include me too! :D
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum:
'PC' users. listen to yourselves. no wonder you all think the rest of the world's against you, and no wonder OSX is based on BSD, comparing some of the smug comments to those voiced by users of the various BSD systems.
Firstly, as a Mac user I really don't feel that the rest of the world is against me. I think you misinterpreted cocoamix's post. All he meant to say was that the Mac community has stronger bonds compared to the Windows community. I also think that the same applies to the Linux community as well. (http://tongue.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by cocoamix:
So what makes you think the term "PC users" was meant as a derogatory statement?
Should I have said "non-Mac users?"
Was there a more concise way for me to identify people who use PC's than "PC user?"
And since when is it smug to simply state that you belong to a friendly community?
macs are PCs just as much as any other microcomputer. non mac users is much better. and it is smug to say the whole world is against you. making you all gang up against it.
No offence intended, by the way to anybody but i just feel like it's easy to sometimes forget there's a whole world out there.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Jimmy James X 10.3.6 / Bob:
"PC user" isn't PC.
It should be "Person of IBM-compatiblity"
How about "Finder Challenged" lol just a thought.
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My opinion of macs. I want an Os that is fully customizable, powerful, efficient, inexpensive, and able to do what I need. I like the fact that Mac Os X is *nix based and easy to use, but at the same time it is proprietary, closed source, and expensive. If someone were to sell me a mac for cheap, I would format the hard drive and install linux on it. Maybe Im a linux purist, but I truly believe in the merits of the GPL.
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i do too.
i think apple have been permanently confused from the start. the problem is that steve jobs has really been actively trying to push the company along his personal line of preference since the start when really, i don't think that's what apple would (or maybe even should) have been doing.
However they have realised the GUI concept very well, and they have taken *ix further in terms of the GUI than anybody else ever. Still, the next real step in computer innovation will come from a collaborative effort (and currently this means open source community), since the development costs to make a truly great leap are too much for any one company (even IBM given its internal structure) to bear.
Who will be the next Xerox PARC? could be you and me if we get involved...
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quote:
Originally posted by The Jimmy James X 10.3.6 / Bob:
I'm doing what was, just a few months ago... unthinkable. I'm going to buy a friend's used PC.
I'm getting it with the intention of running Linux on it, but the scary part is... I'm actively looking at ways that I could make it my... main computer, displacing my beloved iMac.
Why, do you ask? While I love Macs, more and more, I find myself driven toward the Old World hardware (Beige G3, Wallstreet Powerbook and before) and find it to be better than current offerings. The older machines were simply better made, better designed, and IMHO, just better computers than what Apple makes now.
For the era they existed in, the old school Macs were the pinnacle of desktop or portable computing. Today, a Mac is just a novelty. I have an iMac, yay. I can run Mac OS X, which is great, but I could run Linux on a PC and get the same stability, more speed, and at a lower cost. I wanted an iBook, but I'm not paying $1500 to get an extra 200MHz, a DVD drive, a tiny screen, a relatively small HD, and pissing 128MB of RAM.
Well, it's been an interesting year or two as a "die-hard" Mac fan, but those days are numbered. I'll just finally become an uber-geek who has no true preference for anything... just gimme a damn computer, as long as it don't run Windows!
I'm not leaving you fellow Macheads, by any means. I'm just no longer crusading for only the Mac. I'm now crusading for UNIX. I just happen to think that OS X is THE BEST UNIX on the planet.
I have a simple solution: (http://www.angelfire.com/mac/macrevolution/BUCKUP.html)
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Jobs might be Mr. Apple, but he still sucks.
And I have bucked up! I'm still fighting the good fight, but it's a more general "good fight". Macs still happen to be the platform I push if people want something they can love and use. cos... IT'S DA BEST
I just wanna run Linux too!