Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => macOS => Topic started by: Pissed_Macman on 14 April 2003, 05:07
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I just downloaded Safari and I'm not impressed at all. It reminds me a lot of IE.
Good things about it:
1. Cool aqua icon
2. Bar thingy fills up as the page loads
3. Seems pretty fast
4. Matches well with iTunes
Bad things about it:
1. No tabbed browsing
2. Can't see the page as I'm scrolling with it and it will stick and go down sometimes when I'm scrolling with the wheel
3. Loads like IE, with one image at a time instead of loading everything and then showing the page
4. Everything on the window blinks when I take it out of the dock
This is only the beta, maybe it will improve. Does anyone know what the big stinkin deal is about Safari??
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safari is fast. and its only at like .62 beta. the .7 beta has tabbed browsing i hear. but i couldnt find it.
i really like safari. its clean, easy, fast. plus the snap back feature is cool. so are the new bookmarking features. plus with coca gestures installed, i have mouse gestures like opera. dope.
quote:
Bad things about it:
1. No tabbed browsing
2. Can't see the page as I'm scrolling with it and it will stick and go down sometimes when I'm scrolling with the wheel
3. Loads like IE, with one image at a time instead of loading everything and then showing the page
4. Everything on the window blinks when I take it out of the dock
1. tabbed browsing will be in the final version.
2. havent had that problem
3.yeah. i do not like this. fuckig khtml
4.??
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Ummm.. the speed is insane... I don't know about you, but this is the fastest browser I have ever used. My scroll wheel dosn't act funny like yours...
I agree, some fetures are missing, but their comming. Including tabed browsing.
But safari is incredible.
Currently Camino is my fav. browser over all, but I use Safari more just because of the speed.
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I agree with Psyjax, and every version since v62 has tabbed browsing. You just need to know how to turn it on...I did, but I forgot. Google it.
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Safari is the second fastest, second only to IE on my PC running Windows (I know, its IE, I can truthfully say IE is the fastest browser I have ever used, mozilla is catching up though). I have had that scrolling problem. I never really used tabs before to a large extent, when they are in safari I am sure that I will. I like the way it loads, then if a server is slow I can click to the next page without having to wait, and it is a god send to those poor dialupers. I do not know what you just attempted to say in #4.
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Okay, its starting to grow on me. I like the clear, sharp text. Maybe I could get to like it if I can get my beloved tabbed browsing back.
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quote:
Here is a nice surprise for you
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Well, Macman has a point or two there but I wouldn't be so harsh on a product that is still in late beta. The final version should be coming shortly. Nonetheless, Safari is extremely fast even in beta.
I personally prefer and use Camino though, since I'm a fan of Gecko-based browsers but I'm also using Safari. (http://smile.gif)
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khtml sucks. why people persist is beyond me.
when they get tabbed browsing on the go and when their privacy and security settings are as versatile and when it's fast enough to compare with gecko browsers, then i might relent on khtml.
still, haven't tried safari myself and from what i hear from you guys, it's better than konqueror web browser, so this means that apple must be making it better? so long as they don't rest on their laurels it should be more or less decent some time soon.
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: crusader for peace & freedom:
khtml sucks. why people persist is beyond me.
when they get tabbed browsing on the go and when their privacy and security settings are as versatile and when it's fast enough to compare with gecko browsers, then i might relent on khtml.
still, haven't tried safari myself and from what i hear from you guys, it's better than konqueror web browser, so this means that apple must be making it better? so long as they don't rest on their laurels it should be more or less decent some time soon.
Apple have improved the khtml rendering engine tremendously. One only has to use Safari, to see it with his own eyes. And that I believe is the answer to those who claim, with disbelief and ignorance that Apple does not contribute to the Open source community. ;)
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is it fully open source and Free?
if so then i will concede that something is being given back.
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Apple Web Core (http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/webcore/)
quote:
Open source
For its Web page rendering engine, Safari draws on software from the Konqueror open source project. Weighing in at less than one tenth the size of another open source renderer, Konqueror helps Safari stay lean and responsive. And of course, being a good open source citizen, Apple shares its enhancements with the Konqueror open source community.
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: crusader for peace & freedom:
is it fully open source and Free?
if so then i will concede that something is being given back.
Apple shares the full enhanced and improved source code with the KDE development team. Ecsyle came first though. I was going to post the same link. :D
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quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
Apple shares the full enhanced and improved source code with the KDE development team. Ecsyle came first though. I was going to post the same link. :D
:D ;)
word though. im glad to see people standing up for apple (http://smile.gif)
[ April 14, 2003: Message edited by: ecsyle ]
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quote:
Originally posted by ecsyle:
:D ;)
word though. im glad to see people standing up for apple (http://smile.gif)
[ April 14, 2003: Message edited by: ecsyle ]
Well, I can't say that I'm a Mac zealot, but the reason I bought an iBook last September was first of all OS X. I believe that what Apple did, was very brave. Adopting an open source OS for the core of OS X, is not an easy decision for anyone to make, let alone Apple that has gone through numerous financial difficulties in the past. I also like the fact that I can work with the shell and install a variety of open source and free software that has been ported to Darwin.
What I fail to understand though, is this suspiciousness from a small part of the open source community about OS X. Thanks to OS X, many people will discover open source apps and as a result there will be better support as many developers will be working in that direction as well.
Anyway, I like OS X and I certainly like GNU/Linux for what it stands for. If Linux were as ready as OS X is for the desktop, then I would propably do 80% of my work there. For the moment though, I'm mostly working on my iBook and enjoying every minute of it. I'll also continue to stand up for Apple, unless I see a reason in the future not to. :D
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: crusader for peace & freedom:
is it fully open source and Free?
if so then i will concede that something is being given back.
It's free because it's GPL'd so they're legally obliged to make it free, not because they're "a good open source citizen" as they claim. If they were a "good citizen" in the sense that they're implying (what is a good "open source" citizen anyway?) then they'd make their OS core - or better yet all of OSX - properly free.
I still don't see how people think Apple making their OS core open source benefits anyone besides Apple? They don't deserve to be "stood up for", at least not over this issue.
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quote:
Originally posted by flap:
It's free because it's GPL'd so they're legally obliged to make it free, not because they're "a good open source citizen" as they claim. If they were a "good citizen" in the sense that they're implying (what is a good "open source" citizen anyway?) then they'd make their OS core - or better yet all of OSX - properly free.
I still don't see how people think Apple making their OS core open source benefits anyone besides Apple? They don't deserve to be "stood up for", at least not over this issue.
It's because of you and your "elitist" alikes that most people are looking down at free and open source software. Shame how some people are so shortsighted.
[ April 14, 2003: Message edited by: Panos ]
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yeah. i agree. drop the elitist attitudes. at least apple is attempting to move on. sorry that they do not move as fast as you would like. give them time.
[assholish sarcasm]
maybe they are just jealous that apple has actually built an easy to use system on top of a unix core, with the most amazing gui today.
[/assholish sarcasm]
;)
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Open Source *should* be looked down on. That's my whole point. How is it 'elitist' to demand freedom? That's like saying that it's wrong to criticise a despotic government that introduces limited human rights to appease a few people; that to demand a fully democratic government would be elitist.
If you genuinely believe that Apple have open sourced their software in order to be of any benefit to the community then you have a very rose tinted view of the way business works. This wasn't a tentative first step on a journey to making all their software free/open; it's just a calculated PR move, and one that might get some of their bugs fixed for them.
I'd still like to know how Darwin being open source benefits anyone.
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quote:
Originally posted by flap:
Open Source *should* be looked down on. That's my whole point. How is it 'elitist' to demand freedom? That's like saying that it's wrong to criticise a despotic government that introduces limited human rights to appease a few people; that to demand a fully democratic government would be elitist.
If you genuinely believe that Apple have open sourced their software in order to be of any benefit to the community then you have a very rose tinted view of the way business works. This wasn't a tentative first step on a journey to making all their software free/open; it's just a calculated PR move, and one that might get some of their bugs fixed for them.
I'd still like to know how Darwin being open source benefits anyone.
Perhaps you are being jealous that Apple has built the best OS out there today. I know one thing for sure though. That you're being a ridiculous elitist bastard. Sorry, but that's the honest truth. You can fuck off for all I care, since you're too much of a smartass to understand what we're saying. BTW, if I were Macman or another mod, I'd delete this thread since you asshole have steered completely off topic.
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(http://l337images.com/images/picture148.jpg)
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Okay, well that thread spun out of control...
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quote:
Originally posted by flap:
(http://l337images.com/images/picture148.jpg)
(http://l337images.com/images/picture71.jpg)
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Update***
Beta 2 of Safari came out with Tabbed Browsing, its great, unfortunately I havn't had much time to use it. The tabs come from the top instead of the bottom. This makes them look like they hand from something that is always there vs just magically sticking to the toolbar like in Chimer and Mozilla.
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quote:
Originally posted by flap:
It's free because it's GPL'd so they're legally obliged to make it free, not because they're "a good open source citizen" as they claim. If they were a "good citizen" in the sense that they're implying (what is a good "open source" citizen anyway?) then they'd make their OS core - or better yet all of OSX - properly free.
I still don't see how people think Apple making their OS core open source benefits anyone besides Apple? They don't deserve to be "stood up for", at least not over this issue.
I know this is a little late. But Apple is being a good citizen. Does a good citizen follow the law, yes. Also if Apple were not being a good citizen who would sue them? the KHTML people?!? Even if everyone who worked on HTML ever threw in their entire life savings into a lawyer, they still couldn't beat Apple's lawyers. Apple knows this, so they are being a good citizen by not exercising their wallet.
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Apple released v73, which has tabbed browsing "out of the box" - no modifications necessary to get it
http://www.apple.com/safari/download/ (http://www.apple.com/safari/download/)
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But that's the same version I just downloaded yesterday I think. So how do you make tabs???? :confused: :confused:
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oh wait no its not, I downloaded version 60 yesterday. Did 73 just come out over night?
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quote:
Originally posted by Macman: HAS OVER 1000 POSTS:
oh wait no its not, I downloaded version 60 yesterday. Did 73 just come out over night?
Yup...
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I just downloaded the new version and I have to admit that it has now everything it lacked in the previous ones, like tabbed browsing, auto fill forms etc. It also gives the overall impression that it's more stable, which I'm certain that's true. (http://smile.gif)
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no more camino for me :D
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The leaked versions has tabs since v64. This release is very very nice so far. Download manager still needs work, and well as the contextual menus, but it's now my main browser, with Camino as the secondary.
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I don't see any difference, except now it asks me for my keychain password every single time a page loads, a password I still don't know. How do you open tabs?
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quote:
Originally posted by Macman: HAS OVER 1000 POSTS:
I don't see any difference, except now it asks me for my keychain password every single time a page loads, a password I still don't know. How do you open tabs?
In the keychain manager you can see your passwords. You just have to have the password to your user, I think, or it may be your keychain password.
To open tabs you have to enable them in prefs. There it also tells you all of the shortcuts for opening tabs.
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quote:
Originally posted by ecsyle:
no more camino for me :D
great to hear they are coming along so fast with it, as a company i do like apple et cetera, but it's a shame that use of real Free software suffers in this way.
actually the jury's still out on this in my opinion, also ecsyle, don't feel i am picking on you or anything just because i quoted you.
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quote:
Originally posted by Billy Gates: Mac Comrade Captain:
I know this is a little late. But Apple is being a good citizen. Does a good citizen follow the law, yes. Also if Apple were not being a good citizen who would sue them? the KHTML people?!? Even if everyone who worked on HTML ever threw in their entire life savings into a lawyer, they still couldn't beat Apple's lawyers. Apple knows this, so they are being a good citizen by not exercising their wallet.
If they didn't sue them the FSF would, and it would be a very clear cut case if they had violated the GPL. No lawyers could save them from prosecution.
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and would somebody please tell me the situation as regards apple and the gPL? i think i am a little behind here as i don't understand how they are complying/not complying with GPL restrictions.
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Well they've used GPL code in Safari and released that back to the community as they're supposed to. That's it really.
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This thread might be of some help.. (http://dot.kde.org/1041971213/1042039917/)
Oh, and thank you very much for hijacking this thread..
[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Panos ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: crusader for peace & freedom:
actually the jury's still out on this in my opinion, also ecsyle, don't feel i am picking on you or anything just because i quoted you.
Den shut yo mouth!!!
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I think Safari rules, even though I've never used Mac OS X. Apple could very well make Safari as their default browser instead of Microshaft Internet Exploder. Also, the automatic importing of IE's favourites and the IE address book. That could help Mac OS X users to make the switch from IE to Safari.
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quote:
Originally posted by Macman: HAS OVER 1000 POSTS:
Den shut yo mouth!!!
no. although i should not be surprised that you mac advocates don't believe in free speech either.
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Panos:
Oh, and thank you very much for hijacking this thread..
no problem. why is it that a bunch of people can come on here posting ass licking comments about how cuddly macintoshes are and then when one person comes on here and actually has an opinion it's time to get out the sarcastic remarks?
anyway i think you will find that this thread was already hijacked when i came along. also, one final point, i was genuinely interested in this project, but then general interest doesn't seem to welcome in the mac camp, unless it is coupled with fawning admiration. it's a different world we live in. i call mine the "real" world.
[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Calum: crusader for peace & freedom ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: crusader for peace & freedom:
no problem. why is it that a bunch of people can come on here posting ass licking comments about how cuddly macintoshes are and then when one person comes on here and actually has an opinion it's time to get out the sarcastic remarks?
anyway i think you will find that this thread was already hijacked when i came along. also, one final point, i was genuinely interested in this project, but then general interest doesn't seem to welcome in the mac camp, unless it is coupled with fawning admiration. it's a different world we live in. i call mine the "real" world.
[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Calum: crusader for peace & freedom ]
Erm, Calum I was refering to flap's posts and not yours. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.
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[stupid shit posted by a secretive cunt]
[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: psyjax: plain 'ol psyjax ]
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I don't think that's Billy Gates. Dude, I'm not going to delete this post so I can show everyone else your stupidity. He has also made several other similar posts to this which I have deleted. Either shut the hell up or don't let the door hit your ass on the way out because you'll find yourself in a nice little town I like to call "Banville".
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(http://l337images.com/images/picture129.jpg)
[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Windows XP Hater #2874586 ]
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damn double post... sorry
[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: Windows XP Hater #2874586 ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: crusader for peace & freedom:
khtml sucks. why people persist is beyond me.
when they get tabbed browsing on the go and when their privacy and security settings are as versatile and when it's fast enough to compare with gecko browsers, then i might relent on khtml.
still, haven't tried safari myself and from what i hear from you guys, it's better than konqueror web browser, so this means that apple must be making it better? so long as they don't rest on their laurels it should be more or less decent some time soon.
Did you use Konq. 3.1? It has all of that. Plus, installing Mosfet's Replacement Image Loading thingie, it'll be a god-send to you if you're on dialup (progressive image loads).
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my girlfriend uses konqueror ocassionally, but i prefer phoenix and mozilla to be honest. i will probably try out konqueror 3.1 sometime soon - i know my girlfriend is still using konqueror 3.0 because she still boots into red hat 8 even though i now have slack 9 too.
i wonder when we will see a linux version of safari since apple are such generous chappies and have released all their source code et cetera.
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: crusader for peace & freedom:
great to hear they are coming along so fast with it, as a company i do like apple et cetera, but it's a shame that use of real Free software suffers in this way.
actually the jury's still out on this in my opinion, also ecsyle, don't feel i am picking on you or anything just because i quoted you.
not to worry.
i think i did speak too quickly though. i cant access my bank online with safari. that really sucks. and safari was rendering my site weird. probably a css thing. so i will keep camino as my default.
wow. i just checked my site in explorer, and it really fucked it up. lame. mozilla was is the only browser to render it the way i want. camino second. yay gecko. not so yay khtml yet.
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i wonder when we will see a linux version of safari since apple are such generous chappies and have released all their source code et cetera.
heh. i doubt they will release safari for any other platform. just like they will not release iLife, or keynote. but those last suites are not open.. so maybe they will? only time will tell. and i do have faith in apple.
[ April 16, 2003: Message edited by: ecsyle ]
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There is really no reason in porting Safari to other platforms, since the only layer in Safari that is closed-source is the communication layer between the latter and OS X. All of the remaining code will go into future releases of KDE and Konqueror.
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yes well, in that case there's no reason to make galeon either, or phoenix for that matter. and there's no reason to release netscape, opera or mozilla for windows or macintosh either since internet explorer already exists, and they're all based on mosaic. in fact why don't we just do away with internet explorer too and just use lynx on all operating systems?
in fact why do we even have any operating systems other than windows? there's no point! they're all just copies of unix anyway. we should all just use VAXes and PDP10s with unix on them. in fact, why bother when you can already get TOPS for those machines? what's the point?
</sarcasm>
Personally i believe in progress moving in the traditional direction of forward, and i will await the day when safari comes out for linux with baited breath. it will probably be on the same day that quicktime for linux comes out, and pigs fly and hell freezes over.
and before we hear any "that's off topic stop talking about linux" comments, if i had started this thread it would have gone in the applications section since that's exactly what safari is.
[ April 16, 2003: Message edited by: Calum: crusader for peace & freedom ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: crusader for peace & freedom:
yes well, in that case there's no reason to make galeon either, or phoenix for that matter. and there's no reason to release netscape, opera or mozilla for windows or macintosh either since internet explorer already exists, and they're all based on mosaic. in fact why don't we just do away with internet explorer too and just use lynx on all operating systems?
in fact why do we even have any operating systems other than windows? there's no point! they're all just copies of unix anyway. we should all just use VAXes and PDP10s with unix on them. in fact, why bother when you can already get TOPS for those machines? what's the point?
</sarcasm>
Personally i believe in progress moving in the traditional direction of forward, and i will await the day when safari comes out for linux with baited breath. it will probably be on the same day that quicktime for linux comes out, and pigs fly and hell freezes over.
and before we hear any "that's off topic stop talking about linux" comments, if i had started this thread it would have gone in the applications section since that's exactly what safari is.
[ April 16, 2003: Message edited by: Calum: crusader for peace & freedom ]
Perhaps you missed the point: Safari IS Konqueror! You won't find anything in Safari that you won't find in Konqueror. Why do you have to make me repeat myself? Anything new that goes into Safari, will go into Konqueror as well! Perhaps, if they changed Konqueror's name to Safari, you people would be happy. :rolleyes: I don't know what else to say.. :confused:
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quote:
Originally posted by Panos:
Perhaps you missed the point: Safari IS Konqueror! You won't find anything in Safari that you won't find in Konqueror. Why do you have to make me repeat myself? Anything new that goes into Safari, will go into Konqueror as well! Perhaps, if they changed Konqueror's name to Safari, you people would be happy. :rolleyes: I don't know what else to say.. :confused:
he has a point.
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If Safari is Konqueror then why rename it?
Damn marketing goons.
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quote:
Originally posted by Faust:
If Safari is Konqueror then why rename it?
Damn marketing goons.
Your right, it is marketing. But very few people would know what the K in konqueror stands for, or why the used a k in the first place. This is also like asking why didn't Mozilla just call itself Netscape. I mean its the same thing isn't it?
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yeah point but i just cant resist this:
who the fuck knows what the z in "limb biZkit" stands for? or the k in "linKin park?" man putting weird letters in names to make them sound cooler is a fact of life nowadays!
and isnt KDE the K desktop environment?
so in that case doesnt K stand for K?
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quote:
Originally posted by Faust:
yeah point but i just cant resist this:
who the fuck knows what the z in "limb biZkit" stands for? or the k in "linKin park?" man putting weird letters in names to make them sound cooler is a fact of life nowadays!
and isnt KDE the K desktop environment?
so in that case doesnt K stand for K?
But you have to remember that the people that listen to that music and who use the computer for anything other than AIM are extremely limited and probably use a Dell runnning Windows and don't know what the words Dell on the side of their computer are for.
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Okay, disregard this whole topic, I like Safari now.
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: crusader for peace & freedom:
my girlfriend uses konqueror ocassionally, but i prefer phoenix and mozilla to be honest. i will probably try out konqueror 3.1 sometime soon - i know my girlfriend is still using konqueror 3.0 because she still boots into red hat 8 even though i now have slack 9 too.
i wonder when we will see a linux version of safari since apple are such generous chappies and have released all their source code et cetera.
Figures. Konqueror 3.1 is a _really_ good imporvement--it's more like 4.1 than 3.1! In fact, it even renders some pages Mozilla can't, is faster, and has all the features you were whining about in your first post. Oh, and it supports colored scrolling bars, which is totally cool.
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I said disregard it, dammit!!! :mad: