Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => macOS => Topic started by: Pantso on 24 October 2002, 04:33
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I didn't know if I should start this topic at the Linux or the Mac OS forums. I finally decided to put it here so if you mods think it belongs to the Linux section, feel free to move it there.
Now, to my question:
Has anyone installed Yellow Dog, Debian Linux or any other Linux PPC distro on his Mac? If you have, what problems did you encounter? You see, old habits die hard and I sorta miss Linux. (http://smile.gif) I've also heard that Linux runs great on Apple computers, so I'm thinking of setting up a dual boot.
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LinuxPPC Live cooked my firmware on my old 604/120. I got the firmware back to normal, but somehow my CD-ROM drive died along the way. I dunno if it's related or not.
I haven't tried any newer Linux installs though, but MkLinux booted fine when I tried it a couple years back.
It's worth a try, but if I were going to install a UNIX on a Mac, I'd do netbsd. The NetBSD support for PPC is just that much better.
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I would be interested in this also... I'm going to have sold access to a T1 for the weekend, and I want to get my time's worth of downloads... :D
So, anyone try a dual-boot? How would, say, a TiBook running Jag handle this? My main concern is whether or not Jag will play nice...
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I installed YDL on my PowerBook running 10.1.3 (at the time).
It is fast, and I only ran into one problem:
Whenever I try to do anything with my ADB port it locks up.
All in all, a good OS on a good platform. Try it out!
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I installed Yellow Dog Linux with no problems whatsoever on my Mac. But it dosn't support my videocard (GeForce 3) so I run it with my secondary ATI 7000 card whenever I get the inclination.
It works with the GeForce 3, but the colors are all off. Other than that I find YDL to be very stable and easy to work with. Not easyer than OSX, but pretty simple none the less.
The install is quick and painless and has good documentation.
Another distro I tried was Mandrake which also has a very easy installer, tho I could never get it to run.
The only major problem I encounterd was using Yaboot, the standard bootloader. It was a pain in the ass to get of the Harddrive. After fiddlin for what felt like forever I could not wipe it.
Eventually this conflicted with OS9's bootloader which prevented me from logging back in to classic. This caused me so much trouble that I just called in my warantie and got a new hardrive :D
In any case, YDL is the way to go.
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Ok then, YDL it is. (http://smile.gif) From what I've read it's the only PPC distro that plays well with Macs. I'd like to try netBSD as well later on, as Ravuya suggested, but I think that for now I'll stay with the YDL choice. I've also thought of SuSE, which was my favourite Linux distro on my previous laptops but they are stuck with version 7.3 which doesn't support my iBook (at least not yet). Anyway, thanks for the replies. ;)
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YDL is also a good choice cuz it is essentially the PPC distribution of RedHat. The site tout's this, calling it a compleat rewrite or RedHat for the PPC.
I can't wait till they get better (i.e. more hardware support) cuz then I may use it as a more full-time OS.
Tho, I don't see any *NIX replacing OSX for me in the near future. Maybe I'm dumb, but I like point 'n click as much as I like to fiddle with techie stuff, OSX is the best of both worlds :D
But hey, Im a fanboy.
EDIT: At least they used to say they were based off of RedHat... hmmm... maybe the coprporate stuff has prevented them from saying this?
[ October 23, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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The other thing that you might miss out on by installing YDL on PPC is finding applications that are ported to PPC. Many are but where you will have the most trouble is with binary apps (closed source). The Nvidia drivers for your GeForce3 for instance. I see they only have Intel and Athlon drivers (I also have a GeForce card that works quite well). Just something to keep in mind. I wish I had a Mac to test on. I have to deal with similar issues running Linux on a Sun Sparc system. But all of the major stuff is ported.
[ October 23, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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Hey I realized that there's a mandrake version for PPC (ok, I am a linux newbie, thats why mandrake (http://tongue.gif) )
I dunno whether its good or not, but I would definitely want to have that on my ibook when I buy one. :D
BTW, I heard alot of how good the ibook is, what do u guys thing? I am selling my Althon XP 1600+ system to try to buy an ibook. :D
Then its going to be left with Mandrake and Xp on my P3 machine (which i am using right now) and OS X with linux on my ibook!! (http://smile.gif) Really cant wait til I have enough money for it!
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Hey cool, iBooks are awsome, but for the money youl get from your AMD I would put it tword a TiBook. You get more bang for your buck.
Go to smalldog.com to get your Mac's they got em cheeper than most. eBay and uBid may have good deals on TiBooks.
Also, don't buy your RAM from Apple, get some from outpost. You will save a bundle. Load up the sucker with as much RAM as possible for ultimate performance.
Anyway, you will love your new comp.!
Deffinetly a great experience. I think computer users should use as many diffrent OS's platforms as possible. Kinda makes you a well rounded individual :D
I'm sure you will be more than impressed with OSX and your G4 TiBook. Have fun, and let us know what you think :D
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thanks for the recommendation, but i dun think i will get one anytime soon :(
I can only sell off my system for about 200 max (I am keeping the rest of the drives and hdd)
That will still leave me a looooooooooong way to good.
BTW, the Tibook cost too much!!! Over 2000+ :eek: So I think I will just stick to ibook for now....
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WOW! $200 for an AMD 1600+, man PC's really are goin cheep now adays.
I would figure 700+ Max, but then that's how used Mac prices usually range.
http://www.smalldog.com/product/41906 (http://www.smalldog.com/product/41906)
this one looks nice (http://smile.gif)
EDIT: Also, I checked uBid.com, there are a bunch of TiBooks on near closing options. A couple for 400+ and the others for around 1000. That may work.
[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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did you say ubid.com? I check them out and they only have one Tibook selling for 2000 and the reserve price is not met yet :(
Well, thanks anyway, I will continue to look around.
My school is under apple's education plan and so I get $50 off any of the ibooks. (http://smile.gif)
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here is what I see:
http://www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=601129374 (http://www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=601129374)
tho that has 19hrs to go
http://www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=601126984 (http://www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=601126984)
this one has a day
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I just ordered YDL 2.3 and I'll have it next week hopefully. (http://smile.gif) Before you ask, I would gladly download the ISOs but I'm still on dial-up. :mad:
Which brings me to my next question.
I know that Apple uses softmodems nowadays (grrr) but who makes them?? I did a Google search and found a page from Conexant that offers drivers for Apple's softmodems? But is it conexant or another vendor? :rolleyes:
The point is that I'd like to be able to use the modem in Linux as well. So, do you have any more info?
Thanks in advance (once more),
Panos
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The iBook is a great machine. Fast, small, and generally durable. However, it is a laptop and quite small. I find that I can't really use it without a full-size keyboard plugged into it. ;)
I recommend that before you get any ideas about buying the thing, that you run out to the shop and see if they'll let you test-drive it.
Yeah, Yaboot is what took out my firmware. It's a real bitch of a bootloader.
I haven't heard much about the internal softmodems on most Apple hardware, but from what I understand, YDL has support for them. You might want to email them and back that point up.
[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: Ravuya ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ravuya:
The iBook is a great machine. Fast, small, and generally durable. However, it is a laptop and quite small. I find that I can't really use it without a full-size keyboard plugged into it. ;)
I recommend that before you get any ideas about buying the thing, that you run out to the shop and see if they'll let you test-drive it.
Yeah, Yaboot is what took out my firmware. It's a real bitch of a bootloader.
I haven't heard much about the internal softmodems on most Apple hardware, but from what I understand, YDL has support for them. You might want to email them and back that point up.
[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: Ravuya ]
So, Linux boot loaders don't only fuck with Windows...they also fuck with MacOS, ehhh(just like I said to lazy g in another thread..it was Lilo's fault that his Windows boot record got taken out)? Isn't there some way for you to clean your Master Boot Record on a Mac? With Windows you would just boot to DOS and run fdisk /mbr(this doesn't take out Windows since Windows does write it's boot info in the MBR..it uses system files on the regular partation to boot) then poof the Linux boot loader is gone....I couldn't imagine Apple not giving MacOS users a way of cleaning thier mbr without taking out the whole partation.
[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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FDISK /MBR does not remove the boot loader, it just puts the backup copy of the MBR over the primary copy. The MBR is just the first sector of the disk consisting of 512 bytes and is really nothing more than a pointer to somewhere else on disk where the actual boot loader code resides. Having said that, Windows only has the capability of booting other Microsoft operating systems so the need for an alternate boot loader is necessary (such as LILO, GRUB, System Commander, etc). Apparently MacOS is the same, but I do not have experience with MacOS so I can't speak for it.
If you understand the boot loader, and the boot process of each operating system in question you should have no trouble with it. And I have *never* had a case where I had to dump a partition because of boot loader problems as boot loaders only really mess with boot sectors on the partition. And I have multi booted many OSs in my time from just about every version of Microsoft OSs to many different Linux distros, to OS/2 Warp, to Solaris x86, to BE, to etc..
You do have to know what you are doing though in many circumstances. For instance, if you know what you are doing you would also know that there are other ways other than "FDISK /MBR" to replace the master boot record. For instance you can use "dd" rather than "FDISK /MBR", or just install another boot loader which will place it's own pointer code in that first 512 bytes of the disk.
The easiest way is to set up the boot loader of each OS to load said OS from the "partition" boot record (first 512 bytes of the partition that the OS resides on). Then you use a master boot loader (such as LILO, GRUB, System Commander, etc) to load each of those partitions and be the loader called from the MBR.
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The way to manuly edit the boot record on a Mac is to boot into the firmware and change it there. I did this, but it never seemed to work.
I could boot OSX, but not classic. I'm almost certain it was yaboot's fault and to clean up the problem I would have needed a magnet.
None the less, I got stuff workin hunky dory naw adays so who's counting (http://smile.gif)
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I fixed it by removing the battery for 15 minutes, walking around, watching TV. When I came back and reinserted the battery and plugged the machine back in, the firmware was fine. The drive was still dead, however. I really miss that drive.
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I was just wondering about buying the powerbook from ubid, I realized its under customer exchange, meaning that ubid is actually not responsible for any of the sales that under customer exchange.
Well, thats not a problem, just that alot of the ppl selling the powerbook are new sellers. And they list payment options: MoneyOrder, Personal Check, Other.
Is there anyway that I can protect myself in case the sale didnt go well? (like I sent payment, but item not sent, etc)
Anyone here have any good experience with it?
Thanks
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I noticed that YDL has support for older Macs down to the 7500. I have a Performa 6360 (for those of you who are familiar with the classics ;) ) that I have upgraded the hell out of. I'm pretty sure that it will work with my video card (ATI Rage Plus w/8MB VRAM) but my only concerns are will it work with my processor and my ethernet card? My processor is a 400MHZ Sonnet Crescendo Upgrade made to fit in the L2 Cache slot. Works great! My ethernet is a genuin Comm slot II 10/100 MBPs Apple ethernet card.
Also, do I have to set up YDL in a dual boot or can I just have it be stand alone? I wish I could run OSX but unfortunately OS 9.1 is the latest I can go
Any help on this will be GREATLY APREACIATED!!! :D
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Hmm, I don't know if your hardware is supported or not. Why don't you take a look at YDL's support page?
As for the second part of your post, the answer is that you can have YDL standalone on your machine, but I would suggest making two partitions, one for OS 9.1 and the other for YDL. You can then install OS 9.1 on the first partition and YDL on the second. The YDL manual also suggests that you create three partitions inside your Linux partition, one for the boot manager (Xboot or yaboot) eg /dev/hda9 and assign it about 10 MBs, another one for swap eg /dev/hda10 and the last one for your root partition eg /dev/hda11.
The main reason for having OS 9.1 installed is MOL , short for Mac On Linux, a program that lets you run Classic from inside Linux. It's really easy to set up and fun nonetheless.
Hope this helps (http://smile.gif)
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Actually, since your machine is an "old world" mac. You MUST have OS 9 installed. What you do is launch the boot loader from OS9, this dumps the OS and initiates Linux.
The reason for this is that YDL must load up the mac ROM present in those old machines and OS 9 is the only thing thing that can do it.
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so what's the most recent mac that can have onlylinux on it, if you so choose to make it that way?
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum: Linux Commando:
so what's the most recent mac that can have onlylinux on it, if you so choose to make it that way?
I think that every "new world mac", that was built from 1999 onwards, can have only linux on it. I'm not so sure though. This article (http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1167.html) also, explains the difference between "old world" macs and "new world macs"
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iMac first gen and up can be Linux only. The beige G3's still used the oldworld rom, as well as the educational edition.
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Sorry I didn't post it earlier but thanx for the replies! I already checked YDL's support page but it didn't have what I was lookin for.