Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => macOS => Topic started by: Chooco on 2 July 2002, 16:13
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here is an example of what i'm talking about
(http://shawnserver.d2g.com/junk/memory.jpg)
WHAT???!
512mb of SD ram costs $225 US dollars? how do they figure!
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512 MB PC133 SDRAM $ 175.00
that is in CANADIAN dollars which comes to about $115 US from my local computer shop which you can find here (http://www.dynamicpc.ab.ca)
i was doin some numbers and i found out that apple wants $2250 US DOLLARS which is about $3375 Canadian dollars for a system that has this:
933mhz G4 processor
512mb SDRAM (SDRAM is considered old school)
60GB 7200RPM ATA100 hard drive
CD-RW drive
GeForce4 MX
keyboard/mouse/speakers/ethernet and case
now if i go to my local store i can buy this sytem, Canadian dollars
Gigabyte 7VRX Via KT333 Chipset / DDR $169.00
AMD Athlon XP 2100+ Retail Boxed $345.00
Nvidia GeForce4 MX-440 64MB DDR / TV Out $159.00
LG 24x10x40x CD-RW $99.00
Maxtor 60 GB / 7200 $170.00
512 MB PC2100 DDRAM $172.00
AOpen 325 PCI Network Card $22.00
Creative Media 8738 5.1 Channel PCI Card $50.00
Altec Lansing AVS300 (2 way /w Sub) $60.00
Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional $235.00 (if you use MS stuff you better do it right)
17" Dynamic ATX Case / 300W $90.00
Thermaltake DRAGON Orb Heatsink (AMD) $45.00
keyboard/mouse/floppy drive $50
total: $1666
now wait a minute, why does that Apple computer cost twice as much as my AMD with a not bad OS (just admit that Win2k is pretty good) and they're about the same speed?
that is probably why Apple is major screwed....
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probably cause of the ppc processor in it and other stuff. go out on ebay and look up the ibm machines. dual 300mhz systems on ebay cost like 2000+. apple uses very very good hardware in there machines. thats why people like www.lowendmac.com (http://www.lowendmac.com) can use such old equipment, its made to last. unlike this x86 shit im stuck with
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And how well will your x86 machine be fairing in 2 years time? i guarantee that the apple will be able to use all the new software that comes out.
i know this from experience. i have a 350mhz G4 (sawtooth) and i have not had to upgrade in all the time i have had it. And i can still go into my local mac store and buy a game (or any software) and know that it will work, can you say that with your x86 POS.
if you won't to see the specs on my machine go to http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/g4saw.shtml (http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/g4saw.shtml)
(DVD-ROM, 128 MB SDRAM)
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and macs keep there values better and are insanly upgradable. like my powerbook 1400 from like 1996 can take a 466mhz g3. though, i can't wait till i can buy a dec alpha to replace this my x86 box
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HMmm Zif slots Im thinking of upgradeing my system to a 933 system (http://smile.gif)
Just plug it in talk about upgradability!
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Go to ebay. Blue and White G3's are fetching over $500 regularly.
Something about how they retain their value so well.
And in case you didn't know, NEVER buy any components like RAM or HD upgrades from Apple. You'll get reamed on prices. AFAIK, Apple is the only place you can get NVidia cards for Macs, but you can also flash the ROM of a PC version (some, anyway) and use it in a Mac, if you have the balls to try that.
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fascinating. just a few questions though
-what FPS do you get in Quake3? or better yet, Half-Life (Quake3 is the standard but i own Half-Life so i would understand that better)
-can you run a web server on a Mac?
-what components do you NEED to get specialy made for a mac? i know my friend got rammed for floppy disks, he thought you need mac floppy disks to use but one day i wanted a copy of the city he made in SimCity 200 so i busted out a mac floppy and put it on there.....he was stunned that it would actually write onto it lol. it worked too ;) it was a Wintel computer we were using the floppies in.
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Apple seriously overcharges for RAM. Buy the least possible, then go out and pick up some stuff from Crucial.com.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chooco:
[QB]fascinating. just a few questions though
-what FPS do you get in Quake3? or better yet, Half-Life (Quake3 is the standard but i own Half-Life so i would understand that better)
I get about 45 on my iMac 600. (G3)
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-can you run a web server on a Mac?
Yes, in fact Mac OS X has Apache built in. Just turn it on, and bam you're serving web pages.
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-what components do you NEED to get specialy made for a mac?
Well, other than microprocessors, I can't think of anything else. USB, IDE and FireWire have enabled Macs to use all kinds of x86 (read: cheap and flimsy) perhipherals.
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Web serving on a Mac is cake. If you want it simple, using OSX server is the way to go. It's pricy tho, I have seen it used and it is sooooo way easy.
But if you wanna be hardcore about it, Apache is on the system and it's Free. It is also standard so get a couple of O'Rilly books and your off.
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I bet you don't like punctuation either, eh?
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quote:
X86 running Linux is the way to go...lol l8r
ummmm, anything running x86 IS NOT the way to go. come on,
altivec or 64 bit extensions
which would make more sense.
now maybe a 64bit x86 chip with an altivec. x86 should have been put down years ago like the m68k was.
owell, linux does make the x86 suck less
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I'm pretty sure everyone (techie) knows that the x86 architecture is horrible. But it's the cheapest, too. And don't tell me "but the G4 lasts longer" because I already know that. But Joe Average doesn't :-p
[ July 04, 2002: Message edited by: TheQuirk ]
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I don't want tostart these kind of remarks but --
are you stupid?
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X86 running Linux is the way to go
Erm.....
No it's not. You want a 64bit RISC running real UNIX and if you cant get that a Mac. Because you know in your heart that those x86's we've all experienced aren't really up to the job. They are just endless modifications of an old toy processor.
[ July 05, 2002: Message edited by: * Tux * ]
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i don't know what yer on, i put Linux on my AthlonXP 1700+ computer and it was hell fast. it could probably go head to head with a 933mhz G4
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we have about 30 macs at school but about 200 wintels
the wintels are all Pentium 2 233mhz setups with 194mb of ram i think it was (says when it starts up) on Windows NT4.0. those wintel computers work great, they boot up pretty fast, they are easy to use and they get the job done because all we do is stuff like typing lessons, learn word processing and spreadsheets or look stuff up on the internet.
the mac computer work good sort of... they are very fast, excellent color but they don't much care for the proxy the school has (probably on NT4.0 since they already have that OS) because when people try to go on the internet the proxy doesn't always accept the password and user name you give even though they work flawlessly on the wintel computers.
the Pentium 2 computers do everything just as fast as the apple computers in this case because it is nothing strenuous and there is even an advantage of using the wintel in my school because you can get through the proxy every time without a problem.
my point is that you can't base how many macs are used with how good they are.....if that were true we could say Windows was the most stable, most reliable, fastest and easiest to use operating system out there.
i actually think Linux is a lot more user friendly than Windows is.... when my game server crashes in windows i get a stupid message that holds it down so clients just can't reconnect. on this windows computer, every time the computer starts it asks if i want to take a tour of windows or if i want to sign up for MSN messager, just leave me alone damn it! damn unuser friendly windows piece of crap....
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You don't see apple racks being used because the xserve is a new product. Also, colleges and the military DID start using apple servers.
And I doubt you even used a sun4u.
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i would really love to see Linux come to schools, that would make my day (http://smile.gif)
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Dude, ever heard of the carriage return key? ;)
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Lol yeah.
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i'm not sayin the x86 is the best platform itself since there are better ones out there (i like what sun has been doing with the sparc/ultraSparc)but the x86 itself is the best when you consider how much support is out there, easily available, not bad performance, and all for a good price:features ratio....for x86, unix/linux/bsd is the best bet, other than that...ur jus fuckin yourself over LMFAO
Ok even if X86 sucks, isn't everyone forgetting that it's WIND0ZE and sloppy programming by game programmers(let newer hardware pick up the slack) that make X86 suck so much. Im sure the X86 has tons of raw power, even if it's shit compared to these other processors raw power wise.
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yea i know what carriage return is LMFAO....enter lol....but i've only heard ppl say it when speaking of typewriters but it's all good and it's all enter lol l8r
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All you Mac heads saying PPC is so much faster than x86 have your heads so far up your asses you can lick your appendix. PPC may be a more efficient architecture, Mhz wise, but a high end x86 system will beat the shit out of any Mac in terms of raw power and cost.
Let's see, I could get a 933 mhz "power" mac for over $2500. Of course, I could only buy this from Apple, which maintains complete control over all Mac hardware sales. But, I'd rather just spend $1,400 on a cutting edge PC that delivers better performance. I built my computer from scratch, something you Mac lovers can only dream of doing, and it's as stable as hell (XP hasn't crashed once since I got it) and flies through everything I throw at it. It also lets me customize my computer to the smallest detail, while still keeping the price low. So fine, keep your stupid Macs, and rave about how great your 500 mhz g4 is. While you're doing that, I'll be playing Morrowind in 1280x960 at 50 fps on my geforce 4 ti4600 and multitasking between 3ds Max and Photoshop 7.
As for servers, nothing beats Linux on an x86 computer for most purposes in terms of cost-efficiency. Only a buffoon would waste money on a Mac for a server.
PS My other computer is a 700 mhz athlon and I've had it for over 5 years. It still runs great. So stop your lying horse shit about x86 being "utter, short-lived crap." If you can run any program you want on your old 500 mhz Mac, then good for you, but that shows that Mac software hasn't advanced much in the past 2 years.
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quote:
Originally posted by Windows XP User #5225982375:
I'll be playing Morrowind in 1280x960 at 50 fps on my geforce 4 ti4600 and multitasking between 3ds Max and Photoshop 7.
omg that is terrible dude! make sure you have the latest drivers for that card.
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I know sarcasm when I hear it.
(In case you're serious, yes, I have gotten the lastest drivers. Morrowind is just a very demanding game; it won't even run on most people's computers. Look at some of the screenshots (http://www.gamerstemple.com/games/000223/000223s.asp?screen=11). By the way games like Quake 3 run at hundreds of frames per second on this computer)
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is that any good? what's it about? does it have any good mods?
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yea i gotta admit....elder scrolls 3 is a very demanding game....very demanding lol my buddy running a 1ghz pentium3 512mb ram and a geforce2 MX (forgot which mx lol) had to upgrade his card b/c 32mb vid ram couldn't cut it with the game to make it look or play decent....he's running i think it's a geforce4 ti4400 and it's doin good but the game is extremely demanding LMFAO
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is that any good? what's it about? does it have any good mods?
Yes its probably the most fun I've had in a while. The game is so open ended you can pretty do whatever you want in it. It also comes with the editor Bethesda used to make the game, so you can make your own maps, NPCS, items, dialogue, etc. You can even get plugins for Maya and 3ds Max to let you create your own models and put them in the game.
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Windows XP User #9484679812983614298216421 I am currently running a 350Mhz G4 with 128Mhz of RAM (SD) and i am currently Multitasking between The Gimp, Bryce 5, and watching Dungeons and Dragons, while MacMPEG2Decoder is converting a .m2v into a Sorenson 3 .mov in the background. (1600x1200)
Try doing that on your 'great" X86 system, thats with a 2 year old graphics card as well loser, i have not come across any 2 year X86 system that can do that.
Also that game that you are going on about sounds alright, although the fact that they included the editor they used to create the game comes mighty close to being an opensourced game does it not? you would be able to totally recreate the game? make new games?
I don't play any of the latest and greatest games anyway, they all just seem too similar to me i would rather play a game of StarCraft or Diablo 2 over a 1st person shooter any day.
By the way Apples rule, Windows is shit. And almost any flavor of UNIX is good.
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i used to play Diablo2 LOTS, i mean like 20 hours per day. i would go to bed at like 3PM and wake up at like 11PM then start playing....
i have to log in, seriously. i have 2 baranar's star and i would hate to lose them, just chill out AFK for 2 hours eheheheheh
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Windows XP User #9484679812983614298216421 I am currently running a 350Mhz G4 with 128Mhz of RAM (SD) and i am currently Multitasking between The Gimp, Bryce 5, and watching Dungeons and Dragons, while MacMPEG2Decoder is converting a .m2v into a Sorenson 3 .mov in the background. (1600x1200)
Actually, I used to multitask between 3ds max 4, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, and WMP on my 2.5 year old 700 mhz PC all the time. And that was in WINDOWS 98.
PS This G4 must be running OS X; everyone knows OS 9 is shit at multitasking.
In terms of raw power, I'll bet my PC can beat anyone's macintosh here (single processor) at practically any task. Just give me some way to benchmark my system to compare it to a Mac, especially a photoshop one; I'd like to see if Apple is telling the truth about that. I could have gotten an Athlon MP system but thats getting up there in price (although a dual 1900 mhz processor system would still be cheaper than a dual 1ghz g4 system)
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Can I run OS X on it? No?
Fuck it then.
Hey Windoze XP user, nice sig. "Go Banana!"
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Actually it was in both Mac OS 9 and OS X, as MacMPEG2Decoder and Bryce 5 only work in classic environments.
What are the specs on your system?
Mines:
350Mhz G4
Bus: 100Mhz
128Mb PC100 SDRAM
ATI rage 128 Pro (2x AGP)
1 mb Backside cache
10 Gb HD Ultra ATA/66 7200 RPM
20 Gb external HD firewire 7200 RPM (no Apps running of it)
DVD-ROM
Gigaflops: 0.7 - 2.8
Its rated at about a 1Ghz P3 by the way.
On my machine the encoding takes about Double actual movie time. But thats the price i pay for having DVD quality movies fitting on 1 CD-R, in the original size that is. (http://smile.gif)
Why would i run Photoshop in windows it looks like crap and takes forever to do anything.
A true test would be to get the latest systems from Apple, Intel and AMD with the most popular peloaded system on it and run 3-4 apps at once and see things like CPU and memory usauge, time to complete tasks in the background, and time to complete task in the foreground because this is what the majority of users actually do.
Then we will see what system is actually faster. instead of just refering to figures on a peice of paper/in a file.
Send me the systems and i will willingly do it for you (http://tongue.gif)
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Going back to the first post apple bought a shitload of SDRAM A while ago - This is part of the reason hat RAM through Apple is so expensive.
There is a problem with buying the least amount RAM from Apple then going and buying 3rd party RAM it voids part of your warrenty. if you want to keep that warrenty bee careful. Take out the RAM before you take it in to be serviced (http://smile.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Windows XP User #5225982375:
Actually, I used to multitask between 3ds max 4, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, and WMP on my 2.5 year old 700 mhz PC all the time. And that was in WINDOWS 98.
PS This G4 must be running OS X; everyone knows OS 9 is shit at multitasking.
In terms of raw power, I'll bet my PC can beat anyone's macintosh here (single processor) at practically any task. Just give me some way to benchmark my system to compare it to a Mac, especially a photoshop one; I'd like to see if Apple is telling the truth about that. I could have gotten an Athlon MP system but thats getting up there in price (although a dual 1900 mhz processor system would still be cheaper than a dual 1ghz g4 system)
Yeah it might be a couple seconds faster :jackofficonhere: But for what I do, in the long run the Mac saves me more time.
I don't have to deal with lame color profiles to get my color to match correctly, nor do I have to deal with the dodgy font problems that are STILL in WinXP
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quote:
Originally posted by the_black_angel:
There is a problem with buying the least amount RAM from Apple then going and buying 3rd party RAM it voids part of your warrenty. if you want to keep that warrenty bee careful. Take out the RAM before you take it in to be serviced (http://smile.gif)
No it dosn't. You can replace HD's, RAM, PCI cards, Video cards, etc. Without any breah of waranty. Doing things like they do over at applefritter.com may get you in a bit of a bind tho :D
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I was talking to the Local "Mac Guy" at GMac and he said that you can get these changed but could not put these in myself with out voiding the warranty. I had to get it done by a guy with the piece of paper.
Of course my warranty has run out now so i'm free to "upgrade" all i want. I was thinking of going clear and outting a few neons in it but i run a few LANs and that would get annoying - although if i fit a switch like they did it might be viable hhhhmmm interesting... I'll get back to you
[ July 16, 2002: Message edited by: the_black_angel ]
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That warrenty buissness must have something with that local guy. Apple has explicit instructions on their site and in the computers manual/online help about how to install RAM etc.
As a matter of fact, I had a HD go bad a while back, and my computer being under warenty I called Apple and they asked if I knew how to install a HD. I said yes, and they shiped the replacement right to me.
They know my sys. specs, and that I have 3rd party internal hardware, but they didn't deny me service.
Well, maybe it's a don't ask don't tell sort of siruation :D
I have been dieing to Mod up a Mac for a while. I have this OLD centris 650 that I want to do over. It's a junky machine so I won't miss it if I screw it up.
*sigh* I shouldent speak so low of it, in truth that old Centris is probably the best built computer I have ever used. They don't make 'em like that anymore.
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quote:
Originally posted by Windows XP User #5225982375:
All you Mac heads saying PPC is so much faster than x86 have your heads so far up your asses you can lick your appendix. PPC may be a more efficient architecture, Mhz wise, but a high end x86 system will beat the shit out of any Mac in terms of raw power and cost.
Let's see, I could get a 933 mhz "power" mac for over $2500. Of course, I could only buy this from Apple, which maintains complete control over all Mac hardware sales. But, I'd rather just spend $1,400 on a cutting edge PC that delivers better performance. I built my computer from scratch, something you Mac lovers can only dream of doing, and it's as stable as hell (XP hasn't crashed once since I got it) and flies through everything I throw at it. It also lets me customize my computer to the smallest detail, while still keeping the price low. So fine, keep your stupid Macs, and rave about how great your 500 mhz g4 is. While you're doing that, I'll be playing Morrowind in 1280x960 at 50 fps on my geforce 4 ti4600 and multitasking between 3ds Max and Photoshop 7.
As for servers, nothing beats Linux on an x86 computer for most purposes in terms of cost-efficiency. Only a buffoon would waste money on a Mac for a server.
PS My other computer is a 700 mhz athlon and I've had it for over 5 years. It still runs great. So stop your lying horse shit about x86 being "utter, short-lived crap." If you can run any program you want on your old 500 mhz Mac, then good for you, but that shows that Mac software hasn't advanced much in the past 2 years.
wow, 177 posts. i bet 170 of them are just flames. you must really have no life. in other news, about the whole my <insert os here> or <insert hardware> here is better than yours thing, well.. no OS is really better than the other.
*PERSONALLY* i think OSX is the best desktop OS around, but that is just an opinion. now to a gamer, OSX would bite the big one, or to somebody that is "joe average" would also think OSX sucks -- let's face it, most new computer users, or computer users in general are cheap, and they don't feel like paying the extra cash for a mac. also, macs are not available in every computer store in america.
wait, that reminds me: this microsoft junkie that i replied to said "Let's see, I could get a 933 mhz "power" mac for over $2500. Of course, I could only buy this from Apple, which maintains complete control over all Mac hardware sales." -- WHAT ON EARTH? uhh.. you can buy macs from many other stores. personally, i like macmall.com.
and about the hardware.. on processors Sun eats us all alive, as far as i know. but on the PC vs. Mac hardware thing, i'd have to say PC kicks the mac right in the ass. RIGHT IN THE ASS I SAY! any mac user that isn't biased pretty much knows that *HIGH-END* (note: i said high end) PC's usually kick our ass when it comes to hardware. they might not kick our ass on how reliable their hardware is or how much of a resell value their hardware has, but it sure as hell kicks our ass in performace. most macs lack DDR ram, we lack a decent bus speed, we lack a good sound card, etc.
my point is this: high end PC's do blow away the current Mac's, this WindowsXP guy needs a life, and needs to just shut up before he gets shot, and on the OS war, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A WINNER. gosh, i really need to punch some people in the face. there is probably a million spelling/whatever errors in this, oh well.
wow. i only made one spelling error? AMAZING! i love being perfect. die.
[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: eradicator ]
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not really, suns are more for pushing data around then anything else. now a dec alpha at 500mhz as the solarise admin says when i asked him how it compares to intel hardware "blows the shit out of it" i might be buying a dec machine soon WEEEE
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what are MIPS processors? i've heard of those but i don't know what the deal is behind those.... who makes those?
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quote:
Originally posted by Chooco:
what are MIPS processors? i've heard of those but i don't know what the deal is behind those.... who makes those?
http://www.sgi.com/ (http://www.sgi.com/)
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nope, sgi only uses them, the mips processer is a processer core that you can license and make yer own damned cpu. the playstation uses mips, the N64 uses mips a few pda use mips.
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hey hey, chill out man. PA-RISC and PPC-RISC systems are known as the best supercomputing systems in the world. You honestly think Sun can compete outside military contracts? Your kidding yourself. If you think x86 is worth the carbon is printed on, your shittin yerself. x86 should have died years ago. Do you think IBM would bother to make processors if only Apple computing was buying? No! Amiga's use IBM RISC proc's, so do rendering farms, and professional movie editing studios. Sound studios use RISC based digital mixers, video game console's use RISC systems (Game Cube, Panasonic GC, other variants) RISC means reliability, don't fool yourself! As far as other Architectures go, MIPS 16 - 128 are the some of the cheapest architectures you can get. A Mips 128 system at 350Mghz retails for below 1000USD.Infact, if you want a mips 128 box for cheaper than that, go buy a PS2 and the linux kit
total price 299USD.
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quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine:
hey hey, chill out man. PA-RISC and PPC-RISC systems are known as the best supercomputing systems in the world. You honestly think Sun can compete outside military contracts? Your kidding yourself. If you think x86 is worth the carbon is printed on, your shittin yerself. x86 should have died years ago. Do you think IBM would bother to make processors if only Apple computing was buying? No! Amiga's use IBM RISC proc's, so do rendering farms, and professional movie editing studios. Sound studios use RISC based digital mixers, video game console's use RISC systems (Game Cube, Panasonic GC, other variants) RISC means reliability, don't fool yourself! As far as other Architectures go, MIPS 16 - 128 are the some of the cheapest architectures you can get. A Mips 128 system at 350Mghz retails for below 1000USD.Infact, if you want a mips 128 box for cheaper than that, go buy a PS2 and the linux kit
total price 299USD.
i was commenting about pc/mac. Macs are underpowered, and we all know it. and everything else you said, i already knew. i never really said Sun makes the fastest processors in the world, i just said Sun "eats us alive" as in Pentium/G4/Athlon. but i still know Sun ranks as one of the top.