Stop Microsoft
All Things Microsoft => Microsoft Software => Topic started by: bubaslubas on 17 December 2001, 20:15
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OK, has ANY of you guys had contact with XP? I mean, real contact?
It's easiness to use is at a level that has never been achieved on any of the previous versions of Win. It even tied on CNET's deathmatch against OS X (note that CNET has always thrashed Windows when against Mac OS.) OS X is spectacular (I should know, I own a G4) but XP is a darn good try by the Microshit guys (i like them as much as you do, but we have to give credit for their attempt). Just don't thrash the OS just because it's built by M$.
I just wished my os x had mp3 tags support in Finder.
Oh, I really don't care if many of its ideas have been stolen from Apple - just appraise them for having the good-sense of following innovation.
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quote:
Originally posted by bubaslubas:
OK, has ANY of you guys had contact with XP? I mean, real contact?
Well, I couldn't quite talk it into doggy, most I could get was a hand job.
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It's easiness to use is at a level that has never been achieved on any of the previous versions of Win. It even tied on CNET's deathmatch against OS X (note that CNET has always thrashed Windows when against Mac OS.)
A tricycle is easy to use but I prefer to ride a YZ250. Heaven forbid the tricycles force all the rest out of business and I have to race tricycles.
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OS X is spectacular (I should know, I own a G4) but XP is a darn good try by the Microshit guys (i like them as much as you do, but we have to give credit for their attempt). Just don't thrash the OS just because it's built by M$.
Why not? It sucks, they suck.
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I just wished my os x had mp3 tags support in Finder.
Oh, I really don't care if many of its ideas have been stolen from Apple - just appraise them for having the good-sense of following innovation.
You are pathetic. If Microsoft steals everyone elses ideas which cause everyone else to go out of business what innovation will MS have to follow?
[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Wouldn't you wish OS X had MP3TAG support within Finder??? :D
Funny how everyone used to say "I'd rather ride a tricicle than a motorcycle" when referring to OS 9's easiness to use against the complicated Win2000Pro. Now everybody boasts about the geek-like BSD underlayer for X.
Get a life, you asshole.
Oh, and I just TRIED to install Mandrake Linux 8.1... Couldn't resize partitions, didn't find my modem, had trouble with my optical mouse...And asked me for A LOT MORE personal information than XP EVER did.
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Oh, and by the way, you said that M$ idea-pilfering runs competition out of the market...
Where the hell did the Dock came from?
Mac OS X on Intel NOW!
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quote:
Originally posted by bubaslubas:
Oh, and by the way, you said that M$ idea-pilfering runs competition out of the market...
Where the hell did the Dock came from?
Mac OS X on Intel NOW!
(evil grin)
You make it SO, SO easy for me.
You're going to try and claim the dock is a ripoff of the Windows task bar, aren't you, little man? I bet you are.
Except that the Windows task bar is a ripoff of two things: the Mac OS menubar at the top of the screen (in the Mac OS, and the Apple Lisa OS before it, since the early 1980s) and the NeXTSTEP Dock of the late 1980s.
NeXT was purchased by Apple in late 1996. And at that time, all of NeXT's assets, including the Dock, became property of Apple.
Nice try, sparkie.
I love how you like to shit on Mac OS X, then turn around and demand it for Intel. Yeah. No hypocrisy there.
Also: CNET originally declared OS X the winner in that "deathmatch." Then, later the same day that article was published on their site, they "mysteriously" changed it to a tie. How very . . . convenient for Microsoft.
Oh, and yes -- I have "real" contact with XP. It's on the Dell behind me. Microsoft has basically put lipstick on a pig; at least OS X's changes go way, WAY beyond just interface.
Sigh.
Jeez, give me a challenge some time, boys.
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quote:
Originally posted by bubaslubas:
Wouldn't you wish OS X had MP3TAG support within Finder??? :D
Funny how everyone used to say "I'd rather ride a tricicle than a motorcycle" when referring to OS 9's easiness to use against the complicated Win2000Pro. Now everybody boasts about the geek-like BSD underlayer for X.
Hmm, I don't recall ever saying that. Maybe that's why I have never used an Apple or Mac, but I'm certainly not opposed to the idea. And besides, all those people ended up buying Windows.
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Get a life, you asshole.
I get the feeling you work for Microsoft as this happens to be Microsoft's corporate motto. It used to be "Fuck off, dickhead!" but they changed it to appeal more to the masses.
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Oh, and I just TRIED to install Mandrake Linux 8.1... Couldn't resize partitions, didn't find my modem, had trouble with my optical mouse...And asked me for A LOT MORE personal information than XP EVER did.
I guess that's why I like Linux so much. It keeps all the stupid people on Windows which makes supporting Linux *much* easier. I apparently am smarter than your average MS nazi because I have no trouble with any of the things you mention about Linux. Why do people like you feel so threatened when it comes to little ol' Linux? Hell, MS already dominates so why get so upset? And if you love MS so much why do you come to a site like this where people like us get much amusement out of picking on little girly MS people like you?
[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Except that the Windows task bar is a ripoff of two things: the Mac OS menubar at the top of the screen (in the Mac OS, and the Apple Lisa OS before it, since the early 1980s) and the NeXTSTEP Dock of the late 1980s.
Just because they're both bars, doesn't mean that they're equal: The menubar doesn't show running programs (you have to click the finder icon)and you don't have QuickLaunch on the menubar. (By the way, 9.1 showed up with a quicklaunch little bar...Where did THIS came from?)
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NeXT was purchased by Apple in late 1996. And at that time, all of NeXT's assets, including the Dock, became property of Apple.
Nice try, sparkie.
Precisely. NeXT was a lot like OS X back in the early 1990's, which does not only state that Apple is ALSO a good rip-offer, but also that the revolutionary (and I do mean that) OS is after all almost 10 years old, despite its new Darwin core.
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[/QB]
I love how you like to shit on Mac OS X, then turn around and demand it for Intel. Yeah. No hypocrisy there.
If you had bothered to read my replies you would have noticed that i also own a G4 - i don't shit on OS X, I do think it is the BEST OS around, but thrashing XP just because of its "daddy's" sins doesn't sound fair to me.
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Also: CNET originally declared OS X the winner in that "deathmatch." Then, later the same day that article was published on their site, they "mysteriously" changed it to a tie. How very . . . convenient for Microsoft.
OK, I'll just let CNET explain this one...
OS death match
Correction: Some of you may have noticed that in an earlier version of this story, we gave a slight edge to OS X. One of the primary factors behind this decision was the cost of each upgrade as it relates to licensing requirements. Although it is true that OS X lacks a feature like Windows XP's product activation that would bar you from installing it on more than on system, it is still a violation of Apple's end-user licensing agreement to install the upgrade on multiple systems. We regret any misleading information in the initial version, which has now been updated to clarify this issue. (11/2/01)
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Oh, and yes -- I have "real" contact with XP. It's on the Dell behind me. Microsoft has basically put lipstick on a pig; at least OS X's changes go way, WAY beyond just interface.
Sigh.
That just shows that you DON'T have contact with WinXP - comprehensive left-side menus, a MUCH better right-click, IDTAG support in Explorer (I just don't get tired of saying this,)...Oh, and if you don't like the lipstick just run it on classic mode...
I'm not in anyway a M$ fan, but I do enjoy XP and think that nobody gave it a chance.
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VoidMain, do you run Mandrake 8.1? Do you use the command line or the "WINDOWS" KDE? Now that's what you'd call a rip-off...But as long as it works OK, I don't see anything wrong in looking like Win...After all, MandrakeSoft had to develop it, it's not like stealing the blueprints from Redmond...
Your brain is not helping to clarify my situation: I am not shitting on Mac OS OR Linux, I'm just stating that XP does NOT deserve all this tomato-throwing.
And let me say this again: Mac OS X on Intel NOW!
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Just a quick correction so that you can see that I, for one, admit my mistakes...
(http://redface.gif)
The "quicklaunch" bar i was referring to is the Switch App bar. It originated in Mac OS 8.5 (not 9.1,sorry) and is used to switch between apps (clever name, isn't it?)that are ALREADY in use.
However, there is a tweak for this bar so that it can also show apps you often use, thus making it work like a Windows QuickLaunch bar.
Arrogance is NOT the polite way to have a debate (and you sure seem to have a lot of it on you, Webmaster), so here is my recantation.
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Originally posted by bubaslubas:
VoidMain, do you run Mandrake 8.1?
No, but I have installed and used it. In fact I take that back I think I still have it on one server. I don't particularly care for Mandrake.
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Do you use the command line or the "WINDOWS" KDE?
What, are you only going to let me choose one or the other? I use both and then some, primarily command line because it's faster and easier on any system, any system that makes good use of it that is. And I can administer a *NIX box no matter where I am at from any OS (as long as it supports TCP/IP which is any OS connected to the net), without installing any special applications or utilities.
Apparently you don't know the word for it but as far as which Window Manager I prefer when I do use a graphical environment it's "Motif", but that is a commerial Window Manager found on many commercial *NIX. Although there is a ripoff of Motif for Linux called "lesstiff" it's not mature enough for me yet.
Lately I have been using KDE, but I switch between it, Enlightenment and Window Maker, actually I like running both Enlightenment and Window Maker at the same time, gives some nice features. Of course when I'm working on Sun I use either Openwindows or CDE. And no, I don't like Gnome, at least right now, maybe when it gets better.
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Now that's what you'd call a rip-off...But as long as it works OK, I don't see anything wrong in looking like Win...After all, MandrakeSoft had to develop it, it's not like stealing the blueprints from Redmond...
What's a ripoff? A taskbar in KDE? Yeah right. Who gives a shit about a taskbar? I don't use it in KDE *or* in Windows. I can't stand to use the freakin' mouse if I don't have to. In KDE I launch everything with ALT+F2 and typing what I want. Just like I use the Run box (<CTRL><ESC>R) in Win*. I personally don't care about the graphical part of any of the OSs, it's the part that's underneath that makes it work is what I care about.
And I suppose when Microsoft realized there was more than a left button on most people's mice I could say that is a ripoff from *NIX huh? I was using the right button (and middle button) on *NIX before there was an MS Windows.
I suppose that when Ford built the model T, no one else should have been able to put round wheels on their cars because it would have been a "rip off", let alone the fact Ford wasn't the first person to use round wheels.
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Your brain is not helping to clarify my situation:
You noticed?
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I am not shitting on Mac OS OR Linux, I'm just stating that XP does NOT deserve all this tomato-throwing.
Hmmm, I choose to shit upon XP. If can't shit upon XP here at http://www.fuckmicrosoft.com/ (http://www.fuckmicrosoft.com/) then I want my money back!
[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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You noticed?
Yes, I had already suspected the fact that you seem to use your head simply as a hat-holder, but your previous post blatantly stated it. :rolleyes:
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I suppose that when Ford built the model T, no one else should have been able to put round wheels on their cars because it would have been a "rip off", let alone the fact Ford wasn't the first person to use round wheels.
Thank you for proving me right about Mac-user claims about Windows ripoffs. And for making a fool out of yourself - quote:
If Microsoft steals everyone elses ideas which cause everyone else to go out of business what innovation will MS have to follow?
Remember this? :D
Bottom line: you can show what a Linux-geek you are (and it does seems you know your stuff
;) )and you can shit on XP as much as you like, but you can't deny this: Linux is a super-rated shitty excuse of an OS - it maybe fine for running critical web services, but for desktop publishing forget it. Develop some good apps like Freehand or Photoshop (not that GIMP crap) and then we'll talk.
[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: bubaslubas ]
[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: bubaslubas ]
[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: bubaslubas ]
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Originally posted by bubaslubas:
but you can't deny this: Linux is a super-rated shitty excuse of an OS - it maybe fine for running critical web services, but for desktop publishing forget it. Develop some good apps like Freehand or Photoshop (not that GIMP crap) and then we'll talk.
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I *can* deny that, and I do. Desktop publishing is *not* part of an OS. I can't help if no one has written a good desktop publishing app for Linux (they may have as far as I know, it's not my bag). And frankly, I don't care what OS you use as long as you don't tell me I can't use *NIX like Microsoft is trying to do with all their shit.
In fact I have a *better* idea. Why don't you contribute to the cause and write a good Desktop publishing suite for Linux. It may not make you rich but it would surely make you famous (and it would make you rich too if you choose). Why defend the emporor. Or are you too lazy to pick up a programming manual?
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Okay, let's get this "who stole what from who" thing sorted out.
The Windows task bar. Basically, since each window in Windows has it's own menu bar the task bar rips of anything in the Mac OS's menu bar that Windows didn't have before. The icons beside the clock first appeared on Mac OS; the Start button apes the Apple menu; the quicklaunch bar is a rip-off from the Launcher control panel; and the active window boxes is, I must admit, a simpler implementation of the the little menu in System 7 that showed which applications were running.
Apple has stolen things from Windows, but they by all means should learn from their competitor. Window tabs in OS 8 and up were taken from the Windows task bar way of showing open windows. Allowing you to "tear off" the menu showing open applications could possibly ape the quicklaunch menu in Windows ('cept that the quicklaunch bar apes something entirely different). Contextual menus have been updated. And the way you access networked devices in OS 8 or 8.5 and up is very similar to Windows.
Saying that Apple "rip-offed" the Dock from Next misses the point; Apple now owns the Dock, a nicety M$ may or may not take action on before ripping something off. Apple definitely did not rip-off the Dock from the Windows taskbar, however.
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You got me wrong, VoidMain... Nobody's telling you to stop using Linux.
I'm just stating that you simply can't say that XP is a shitty OS when it's a whole lot better than I-don't-wan't-to-support-this-modem, I-didn't-know-that-monitors-with-resolutions-of-1600x1200-existed Linux...
I am not behind Microsoft's policies, but I am certainly behind what seems to be a very good product...XP.
I DO care a LOT about the graphical interface of my OS (thank Apple for Mac OS because pre-XP versions of Win were pure vomit)- it's a regular tendency among non-geek users.
OK, so what's an OS about? Command-line scripting? App developing?
You tend to emphasize Linux's best features; I tend to do the same with Windows'.
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Why don't you contribute to the cause and write a good Desktop publishing suite for Linux. It may not make you rich but it would surely make you famous (and it would make you rich too if you choose).
OK, whatever. :rolleyes:
How about this: I write that desktop publishing suite and you develop a safe web server for windows. I bet both tasks would be utterly impossible... :D
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Hey, bubsawhatever - device drivers are written by the hardware vendor; Microshaft just has a habit of collecting them and rolling them into Windows. The lack of hardware support under Linux is not the Linux community's fault; fixing it is what they are famous for, however.
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Hey gaywhatever!
Funny: of all the Linux drivers I've searched for my new Mandrake were conversions of Windows drivers (especially modem drivers)... And most of them had limitations compared to their Win "fathers".
Even funnier, I didn't need ANY drivers for my hardware in XP (ANY!)... And it came running Me, not XP.
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Okay, let's get this "who stole what from who" thing sorted out.
Apple has stolen things from Windows, but they by all means should learn from their competitor.
Thank you for noticing that the "ripping-off" issue was long due in this debate and for reclosing it yourself.
The hords are closing in, I see...
(http://tongue.gif)
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Originally posted by bubaslubas:
I'm just stating that you simply can't say that XP is a shitty OS when it's a whole lot better than I-don't-wan't-to-support-this-modem, I-didn't-know-that-monitors-with-resolutions-of-1600x1200-existed Linux...
I can see you've never used Linux, or at least made a feeble attempt at it. I just press <CTRL><ALT><KP+> and cycle through over 20 graphics modes (including 1600x1200) on my machine with a GeForce II and a 21" monitor. And it does run Doom* and Quake* far better than my Win* boxes. I personally think my graphics on my Linux box are far superior to the Microsoft shit (of which I have more experience with than probably over 99.9% of MS users).
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I am not behind Microsoft's policies, but I am certainly behind what seems to be a very good product...XP.
That's your right. I don't agree but it's your right. Like I said, as soon as they put a *real* OS under that nice shiny interface, I'm all with ya. Now that Apple's done it, they just might. Naw, they don't want to play with others.
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I DO care a LOT about the graphical interface of my OS (thank Apple for Mac OS because pre-XP versions of Win were pure vomit)- it's a regular tendency among non-geek users.
I'm happy for you. Press on.
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OK, so what's an OS about? Command-line scripting? App developing?
You tend to emphasize Linux's best features; I tend to do the same with Windows'.
Maybe you should look up the definition of "Operating System". Microsoft would like you to believe it's a lot more than what it is to extend their monopoly.
See: http://webopedia.lycos.com/TERM/o/operating_system.html (http://webopedia.lycos.com/TERM/o/operating_system.html)
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How about this: I write that desktop publishing suite and you develop a safe web server for windows. I bet both tasks would be utterly impossible... :D
In order to write a safe browser you need to have a safe operating system. If Microsoft does what Mac did, and make it open source I will give you a safe browser.
[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Originally posted by bubaslubas:
Funny: of all the Linux drivers I've searched for my new Mandrake were conversions of Windows drivers (especially modem drivers)... And most of them had limitations compared to their Win "fathers".
Heh heh, this is funny stuff...
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Even funnier, I didn't need ANY drivers for my hardware in XP (ANY!)... And it came running Me, not XP.
This is *extremely* funny. You're telling me you are accessing all of your hardware without any device drivers? I got news for you. You ain't accessing *any* of your hardware without device drivers. Just so happens XPee is right out the door so it has all the current stuff included but wait 6 months and lets cover this topic again.
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Originally posted by bubaslubas:
Hey gaywhatever!
Funny: of all the Linux drivers I've searched for my new Mandrake were conversions of Windows drivers (especially modem drivers)... And most of them had limitations compared to their Win "fathers".
Even funnier, I didn't need ANY drivers for my hardware in XP (ANY!)... And it came running Me, not XP.
I have to agree with VoidMain. It is rather amusing how far you have missed the mark. However, for your information, I will briefly explain the joke.
First, I hate to disappoint you, but it is impossible to create "conversions of Windows drivers" for Linux. If it WAS possible, then there wouldn't _be_ a driver problem for Linux, since people would just magically convert the driver from Win to Linux and everything would be hunky-dorey.
Second, you seem to be under the false impression that you are running Windows without drivers. Go to your System control panel and look at the Device Manager. Every single entry in the Device Manager represents a unique driver. As I was attempting to explain in my prior post, these drivers are collected by M$ and included on the Windows CD; rest assured, however, that they were at most tweaked by Microshaft, not written by them.
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this bubaslubass guy is really good! why doesn't she or he get a job as a stand up comedian?
My post isn't full of technical bullshit, i am 'only' a lowly user, and have had limited experience of M$ alternatives, but i have had a chance to use many versions of Windows, and what a heap of shit it really is. there's no argument. you guya are doing really well to be arguing about this because there is really no large issue to dispute. Windows is slow and cruddy. it allocates all its system resources at bootup time and plods through muck until shutdown time or until a crash, whichever comes first (guess which happens most often to me?) and as for drivers, as already mentioned, the hardware manufacturers are responsible for it, but they often only write windows drivers. My mitsubishi electric cdrw has had a driver problem recently, i went to their website and they have full driver support for 4 versions of windows, and nothing for anything else. It's a usb device so you'd think they'd at least have a Mac driver.
well, i haven't got a Mac so i don't know but what i'm saying is these drivers are often a steaming pile of poo themselves, or is it just windows' handling of the drivers who can tell. With said device i thought it was the drivers till i discovered that to fix the problem, i needed to change the swap file size using control panel, and hey presto working like clockwork.
Because windows fills up all the ram with crap, it uses the ultra slow swap file instead you see, so that you get a lot of buffer problems and read/write errors etc. by reducing the swap file size, it makes windows panic and empty out some of the crap in the ram, or so i understand.
Anyway, i've rambled off a bit but what i'm saying is that manufacturers try to lick windows' bollocks and microsoft, when it receives a particularly lucrative backhander, kisses the ass of those manufacturers in turn. With Linux, the guys using the system have got to write and distribute their own drivers! In their spare time! Can you imagine the usual drool-chinned M$ butthead doing that? Try hard. No? i didn't think so.
These 'my computer works fine with windows' morons have no concept of why their computer works at all or what goes into making a system. As we've seen already, many of these so called OS criticisms are actually criticisms of proprietary software running on those OSs and much of the reason windows works fine is actually due to workarounds that other companies have developed to make windows WORK. (i always thought that 'MS Works was an oxymoron, much like many MS users now i think of it...) I have to use one program to clear the ram when windows fills it up with goo, another to stop windows opening those mysterious background programs that write to the hard drive when you're trying to run scandisk et c et c.
Right. well, that's it. to sum up, i'm a no code non programmer user and even i know that M$ software is a pile of crap produced solely to make money and anybody that says otherwise has been brainwashed, is getting some of the revenue concerned, or has never made any serious enquiry outside the M$ camp.
End of missive, commence flaming now.... ;)
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Originally posted by Calum:
and as for drivers, as already mentioned, the hardware manufacturers are responsible for it, but they often only write windows drivers. My mitsubishi electric cdrw has had a driver problem recently, i went to their website and they have full driver support for 4 versions of windows, and nothing for anything else.
Thanks, you just sparked another thought. And BubbleAss, usually drivers supplied for Linux by hardware manufacturers are far superior to the Windows drivers. Now how can that be you say? A hardware driver has to interface with the kernel and it sure as hell is a lot easier to write a driver when you have the *source* code for said kernel.
As for the other scum manufacturers that do not supply drivers, thats ok too because there are plenty of good programmers out there that will write the drivers and donate them to the cause. More and more manufacturers are getting on the boat every day though which gives me much pleasure.
[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Hell, the hords DID came to the rescue... (http://tongue.gif)
I'm terribly sorry for thinking that your geek-ass brain would need no 6-year old explanation about the drivers... What I OBVIOUSLY meant was that XP didn't need any outside drivers, it used the ones that came with it...Right? Good.
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I just press <CTRL><ALT><KP+> and cycle through over 20 graphics modes (including 1600x1200) on my machine with a GeForce II and a 21" monitor.
You press what??? How many hands have you got?
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Maybe you should look up the definition of "Operating System". Microsoft would like you to believe it's a lot more than what it is to extend their monopoly.
Thanks for the link. Read this:
Every general-purpose computer must have an operating system to run other programs. Operating systems perform basic tasks, such as recognizing input from the keyboard, sending output to the display screen, keeping track of files and directories on the disk, and controlling peripheral devices such as disk drives and printers.
Does the bold part remember Windows? Yes, it has problems in that issue. Does it remember Linux? Yes, it almost doesn't do that! Get my point?
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If Microsoft does what Mac did, and make it open source I will give you a safe browser.
OK, when there's a Linux version that doesn't require the reading of 700 books just to run it in graphical mode, I'll try to make something out of it too. We have a deal.
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Just so happens XPee is right out the door so it has all the current stuff included but wait 6 months and lets cover this topic again.
Bill would be proud of you! It has all the current stuff included... For once, you're right.
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First, I hate to disappoint you, but it is impossible to create "conversions of Windows drivers" for Linux. If it WAS possible, then there wouldn't _be_ a driver problem for Linux, since people would just magically convert the driver from Win to Linux and everything would be hunky-dorey.
Ever heard of "linmodems" or Rockwell RPI? My HSP drivers are "written" from the Win version... (at least that's what it says in the readme)
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you guya are doing really well to be arguing about this because there is really no large issue to dispute.
Thank you for your appraisal. I'm just sorry that my arguments will fall short soon, since your "army" has been increasing... (http://smile.gif)
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It's a usb device so you'd think they'd at least have a Mac driver.
Apple is currently pushing hard towards Firewire, USB belongs to the past. It's shitty and it's slow (and M$ thinks it's where the future lays - sheesh.)
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by reducing the swap file size, it makes windows panic and empty out some of the crap in the ram, or so i understand.
It's not their fault if you have a shitty computer... My Mac OS X sure takes up a lot more page file than my XP...
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Anyway, i've rambled off a bit but what i'm saying is that manufacturers try to lick windows' bollocks and microsoft, when it receives a particularly lucrative backhander, kisses the ass of those manufacturers in turn.
Well, what did you expect??? Greed is good, they say. Greed works. It sucks but that's just the way it is.
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These 'my computer works fine with windows' morons have no concept of why their computer works at all or what goes into making a system.
...and have had limited experience of M$ alternatives,...
If you don't know what you're talking about, then shut the fuck up. I'm sick and tired of being disturbed by mentally retarded who hate Windows just because it's Windows...
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With Linux, the guys using the system have got to write and distribute their own drivers! In their spare time!
I respect a lot the work that has been put into making Linux and I do feel that it will be a very good alternative to Windows...as soon as it stops being developed BY geeks FOR geeks.
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...much of the reason windows works fine...
Shit, Bill would be so glad to hear you guys!
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And BubbleAss, usually drivers supplied for Linux by hardware manufacturers are far superior to the Windows drivers. Now how can that be you say? A hardware driver has to interface with the kernel and it sure as hell is a lot easier to write a driver when you have the *source* code for said kernel.
Really? Then why does half my hardware have different model names under linux or just don't work at all? :confused:
Bottom line: XP is OK. Try it sometime. It may not be as good as OS X, but it's worth a try.
[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: bubaslubas ]
[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: bubaslubas ]
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Originally posted by bubaslubas:
Really? Then why does half my hardware have different model names under linux or just don't work at all? :confused:
I don't know where you buy your hardware (maybe from Microsoft?) but I just built a brand new machine, 1.6Ghz Athalon, Soyo Dragon+ MB, 512MB, 40GB, GeForce w/64MB. Stuck the RedHat 7.2 CD in and slightly over 10 minutes I had a completely installed and configured system, with only a single reboot (and that was only to bootstrap the kernel from the HD rather than the CD), all hardware detected without a problem. It's been up and running ever since. And I didn't once look at any Linux hardware compatability list before buying the equipment (although it would be recommended).
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Bottom line: XP is OK. Try it sometime. It may not be as good as OS X, but it's worth a try.
Unfortunately I have to provide 4th level support for this garbage so don't tell me to try it...
[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Oh, and BTW, <CTRL><ALT><KP+> is exactly the same number of keys it takes to make a Win machine useful, 3. I mean "Keypad +" when I say <KP+>. And it's a lot more convenient than clicking your way though the desktop settings or right clicking on your background and going through the menus. Why the hell should I take my hands off the keyboard for crap like this?
And I'm certainly not asking for anyone's help in giving you shit. Maybe you should wonder why no one has come to your aid on this one. It's because you make not one ounce of sense. It's almost like your lips are pasted on your ass because that's where you're talking from.
[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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What I OBVIOUSLY meant was that XP didn't need any outside drivers, it used the ones that came with it...Right? Good.
And what I OBVIOUSLY meant (since it's exactly what I said) is that Macroshaft doesn't write those drivers. They just collect them and bundle them with Winblows. God, how stupid are you?
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. . . and controlling peripheral devices such as disk drives and printers.
Does the bold part remember Windows? Yes, it has problems in that issue. Does it remember Linux? Yes, it almost doesn't do that! Get my point?
You really have no fucking clue, do you? Okay, let's go back to square one just ANOTHER FUCKING TIME FOR YOU, YOU FUCKING MORON. An operating system doesn't directly talk to the hardware; it uses a third party program called a "driver" to do that. If you understood one fucking thing about OSes than maybe you wouldn't have to find some retarded anonymous source to back up your claim.
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Apple is currently pushing hard towards Firewire, USB belongs to the past. It's shitty and it's slow (and M$ thinks it's where the future lays - sheesh.)
Please let me know what a misinformed statement like this has to do with the debate at hand???
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If you don't know what you're talking about, then shut the fuck up.
Since you've proven over and over again that you don't know what you're talking about will you please follow your own advice and shut the fuck up!!!
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Bottom line: XP is OK. Try it sometime. It may not be as good as OS X, but it's worth a try.
This may surprise you, but I have tried XP. I spent quite a lot of time familiarizing myself with the piece of shit before deciding it wasn't worth it. The interface sucks, and is just a skin for Windows NT in any case. It still crashes (mine crashed the first night I was running it). It bundles in a bunch of low-quality software in an attempt to extend M$'s monopolies and also to push Passport services down your throat.
In short, same old shit from the same old source. Nothing exciting. No deep rooted changes to make the system better; just Winblows NT 5.1 with a shiny interface. And it even has an added security hole that is actually pretty serious; without going into details I can say Windows XP going to market is like a huge party for malicious hackers who want to anonymously attack people.
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It seems that gay420 is suffering from some sort of hallucination... First, "Windows works just fine", then "Windows is a piece of crap"...
"I haven't had much contact with Windows", then "I've spent quite a lot of time with Windows"...
What's it gonna be, shitface? It's the extremism of schizo-paranoid fucks like yourself that leads me to start these debates, but I find your speech to lack the discerniment needed in order to carry on a decent conversation. Your sistematic contradicting (not to mention the fact that it seems I have to explain everything I write to you, leading me to think that you ARE in fact a 6-year old having trouble with English classes) gives me no encouragement to proceed with this debate. And as for the driver issue, don't you think that having drivers bundled with your OS is a good thing? So what if they're collected and not written? All I know is that XP recognized every little piece of hardware on my computer (it's brandless, nobody buys brand computers here in Portugal, except Macs. AND Windows is rarely OEM, the shops just stick it in with no license and that's it - I usually don't buy off the big commercial surfaces, i prefer the small shops). Mandrake, however, is still not functioning after 2 days. Is Windows for stupid people just because it's easier to install and use? Well, Macs must be for the mentally challenged then! You sound like those asses who wander the net saying "Real men use DOS!".
As for you, VoidMain, who are right about some of the stuff you say, but you insist in analyzing stuff from a geek point of view - I want something that REALLY is easy to use, not something made by programmers to programmers. Linux hardware support is feeble, Linux apps are feeble, Linux easiness to use doesn't exist. You say that's not the job of an OS. I reply saying that I'm glad XP and OS X go beyond what you call "an OS" and are really capable of providing assistance to the user. Even BeOS (which I ran for about 2 months) seemed a lot more developed than the 2 versions of Linux I've layed my eyes on (can't speak about the others, sorry. I hear the SuSE distribution is rather good, though.).
But it has been a pleasure chatting with you, you certainly know a lot about computers and OSs (I'm certain that the feeling isn't mutual (http://tongue.gif) )
Just one more thing, gay420:
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Please let me know what a misinformed statement like this has to do with the debate at hand???
I believe this shows rather well your lack of good-sense - this was a commentary and a critic to M$, but that little onion you call a brain isn't capable of percieving that sticking up for XP doesn't mean you actually are a M$ fan... It doesn't even mean you're a Windows fan. XP has its issues (like all OSs), XP has its limitations, but as I have said before, "It's a darn good try". Have you still not understood that my preference goes toward OS X by far?
Learn to debate for ideias and opinions, rather than insulting and thrashing your adversaries just for being that, you brat.
[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: bubaslubas ]
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Originally posted by bubaslubas:
It seems that gay420 is suffering from some sort of hallucination... First, "Windows works just fine", then "Windows is a piece of crap"...
"I haven't had much contact with Windows", then "I've spent quite a lot of time with Windows"...
Seeing as I have maintained that Windows sucks ass in every post on this thread, I really don't know what the fuck you're talking about here.
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What's it gonna be, shitface? It's the extremism of schizo-paranoid fucks like yourself that leads me to start these debates, but I find your speech to lack the discerniment needed in order to carry on a decent conversation.
All nice and well, coming from the man who was retarded enough to post a pro-Microsoft post on a site called FuckMicrosoft.com. Moron.
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Your sistematic contradicting (not to mention the fact that it seems I have to explain everything I write to you, leading me to think that you ARE in fact a 6-year old having trouble with English classes) gives me no encouragement to proceed with this debate.
Perhaps you mean "systematic contradictions"? Maybe you should check your own use of the English language before you start criticizing soembody else, you illeterate dumbass.
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And as for the driver issue, don't you think that having drivers bundled with your OS is a good thing? So what if they're collected and not written? All I know is that XP recognized every little piece of hardware on my computer (it's brandless, nobody buys brand computers here in Portugal, except Macs. AND Windows is rarely OEM, the shops just stick it in with no license and that's it - I usually don't buy off the big commercial surfaces, i prefer the small shops). Mandrake, however, is still not functioning after 2 days.
Perhaps if you had your head screwed on right you wouldn't have missed the entire point in the debate about drivers. However, since you obviously HAVE missed the point once again, I shall attempt to spell it out for you. Drivers are not part of the OS; they are a third-party program that the OS uses. So the fact that Windows has more drivers is irrelevant to the quality of that OS versus other operating systems.
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Is Windows for stupid people just because it's easier to install and use?
Actually, yes, Windows is ideally suited for stupid people.
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Well, Macs must be for the mentally challenged then! You sound like those asses who wander the net saying "Real men use DOS!".
Once again you have gone off the deep end. Macs are easy to use, but they do the user the credit of not assuming that he or she is a complete fucking moron. And Mac OS X is not for the faint of heart, either; it's easy enough to install and use, but it is not very easy when it comes to configuration or driver problems.
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"Please let me know what a misinformed statement like this has to do with the debate at hand???"
I believe this shows rather well your lack of good-sense - this was a commentary and a critic to M$, but that little onion you call a brain isn't capable of percieving that sticking up for XP doesn't mean you actually are a M$ fan... It doesn't even mean you're a Windows fan. XP has its issues (like all OSs), XP has its limitations, but as I have said before, "It's a darn good try". Have you still not understood that my preference goes toward OS X by far?
If somebody with a brain were to analyze the comment of yours that I was replying to above, they would see that you were bashing Apple for trying to get rid of USB, something that is preposterous given the fact that Apple continues to include USB ports on all of their machines and has not voiced any plans to discontinue support for the protocol.
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Learn to debate for ideias and opinions, rather than insulting and thrashing your adversaries just for being that, you brat.
[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: bubaslubas ]
Well, really, considering the your tone in your last message that is a rather ironic parting shot. In any case, I much prefer insulting ignoramuses like yourself; it's just too hard to resist having fun at the expense of idiots.
Windows XP is NOT a new OS; it is Windows 2000 with improved compatibility and a shiny interface, no more or less. Unfortunately, it isn't even as stable as Win2K, though. The real story behind XP goes far beyond the stability or compatibility; it includes the way M$ is further breaking the law by tying half a dozen new programs to Windows XP and not allowing you the option of uninstalling them; it includes the way Passport is integrated into the OS and the invasion of privacy known as Windows Product Activation; it also includes M$'s .NET venture, or in other words, M$'s attempt to take over the internet (Windows XP was supposed to be called Windows.NET until they couldn't resist trying to copy Mac OS X's name). And in case you miss the danger in that, realize that if Bill Gates managed to make the internet proprietary (i.e. you would have to go through M$ in some way in order to reach it) he would become more powerful than the leader of any nation. It's already bad enough having an evil man like him in a position that may very well be unstoppable, but if he could control free speech itself he might as well declare himself emporer and be done with it.
You see, what may on the surface appear to be angst against Microsoft and jealousy of Bill Gate's money actually has nothing to do with these things. Why do I hate Bill Gates and Microsoft? Because they have no qualms about breaking the law to extend their power. Because they intentionally put shitty products on the market so they can keep tempting people with upgrades. Because they kill off open standards and replace them with proprietary substitutes that are only half as functional. Because Bill Gates is the anethema to the open exchange of information, for he wants to be able to be the gatekeeper to that exchange with the power to tax or even control it. The man stopped thirsting for wealth a long time ago, back when he became the wealthiest man alive; now he thirsts for power.
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Originally posted by bubaslubas:
I want something that REALLY is easy to use,
not something made by programmers to programmers. Linux hardware support is feeble,
Like I said, use your MS products and be happy.
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Linux apps are feeble, Linux easiness to use doesn't exist.
Linux is *much* easier to use for what I do. And apparently Win* must not be that easy to use or the "Video Professor" would be out of business.. I saw his ugly ass on TV last night so he still must be in business.
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You say that's not the job of an OS. I reply saying that I'm glad XP and OS X go beyond what you call "an OS" and are really capable of providing assistance to the user.
Not *once* did I say drivers were not part of an OS, they are one of the *key* components next to the kernel. If you could read I said "Microsoft would like you to think that an OS is more than it is" in order to extend their monopoly. A web browser has *NO* place being part of the operating system. It is an application, not an integral part of an OS. Microsoft's attempts at making it part of the OS has caused their OS to be even much less secure than it was before. And I suppose that Movie Maker shit is part of the "OS" too right? No, it's a freakin' application but they include it and try and make it so it's difficult to use something else so as to put other companies out of business. The "GUI" should not be part of the OS and because Microsoft has tried so hard to *make* it part of the OS you only have one choice for a GUI on MS. In fact you can't even shut the GUI down if you never need to use it (i.e. on servers) which means it just sits there and eats up memory and CPU. Sure their GUI is pretty good. I will admit that, just wish they had a better, more stable, more reliable *OS* underneath that GUI.
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But it has been a pleasure chatting with you, you certainly know a lot about computers and OSs (I'm certain that the feeling isn't mutual (http://tongue.gif) )
And I certainly have nothing against you personally. It's actually a good debate and if nothing else it will spark people to do some investigation and decide for themselves. The shit throwing is for pure amusement.
At least you have made an "attempt" at trying something different and if it's not for you that is great. The problem I have is that if Microsoft had their way, we would have no choice and that is *baaaaaaaad*. At least for me because I prefer *NIX.
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Originally posted by VoidMain:
The shit throwing is for pure amusement.
Ditto.
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At least you have made an "attempt" at trying something different and if it's not for you that is great. The problem I have is that if Microsoft had their way, we would have no choice and that is *baaaaaaaad*. At least for me because I prefer *NIX.
I couldn't agree more.
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It's not their fault if you have a shitty computer... My Mac OS X sure takes up a lot more page file than my XP...
Well, excuuuuuuuuse me for breathing. Actually, whilst my computer is not by any stretch of the imagination the best in the world, It's not the worst, and many of my peers are using stuff much more 'inferior' than my computer. For the record i have an 850 Mhz intel P3 CPU, 128 Mb of RAM, 8 Mb of which gets hijacked by the SiS graphics card, a generic sound card which is usually SB compatible, on an ASUS motherboard. The clock speed actually runs at 900 Mhz. Not that it's really any of yr business. Anyway, clock speed is next to worthless as a judge of processing power, but that's another argument. Which i'll be quite happy to have if somebody would like to start a topic about it (maybe they already have).
The fact is that Windows is actually fucked. Sorry. I know it hurts yr feelings but my computer isn't shit. I mean come on and post a reply about how yr one runs at 1500 Mhz and has 256Mb of RAM, but you are compounding the ludicrousness of yr argument.
If a machine needs all that crap to run Windows then it really isn't fulfilling it's function as a traffic cop, making sure all the programs do what they need to without getting in each other's way. Or whatever that definition said.
I mean there are tons of computers out there, probably the majority, which are less than the cutting edge and still have 133 Mhz processors et c. These machines (i am told) will run windows much happilier than a huge lumbering version of windows. I suppose you could load up Windows 3 and have a true 'vintage' experience on yr 'shitty' computer, but what's the point when you can fire up a truly up to date OS and you're away?
What i'm saying is this. Nice attempt at shit flinging, mate, but my computer's not shit. I can't seriously imagine that you are suggesting everybody update their computer's innards every time somebody brings out a new chip at 100 Mhz faster or whatever. In my case it would be doubly irritating since it's a F***ing laptop. and THAT'S another argument too. Ah well, save some arguing for another day, eh?
Why don't you start up yr own website called FuckFuckMicrosoft.com ? :D
No hard feelings, i am sure you get a lot of comfort on those cold nights, while you wait for windows to start up, just knowing that Bill Gates has yourinterests at heart.
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sigh. Note the typo above. I say that crummy old 133 Mhz computers will run windows better than windows. Of course i meant to say that Linux is supposed to need less clock speed and less memory to run than windows. Nevermind, doesn't it just go to show that us anti microsoft types are all a bunch of morons, bubbaslub? ;)
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All last summer we were promised that Windows XP would be the best, most stable, and secure Windows ever. We were promised that: "Yes you can" and "Suddenly every thing clicks". Now it appears that Win XP has some huge security problems. USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/money/tech/2001-12-20-xp.htm)
Say it ain't so, Bill.
Say it ain't so :(
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A Microsoft official said the risk to consumers was unprecedented because the glitches allow hackers to seize control of all Windows XP operating system software without requiring a computer user to do anything except connect to the Internet. Microsoft made available on its Web site a free fix for both home and professional editions of Windows XP and forcefully urged consumers to install it immediately.
HO HO HO!
That's very funny! has Bubbaslub heard about this? Maybe somebody could be good enough to seize control of his fantastic WinXP system that has no flaws at all and is in no way 'shitty'.
Ha Ha Ha! :D
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First of all, bubaslubas never wanted to say that WinXP is perfect. Microsoft promises a lot, yes. But go to any security site, and count how many exploits are there for *nix systems. And they too advertised it was "safe". Safer than MS's ones, yes, maybe. Safe, no.
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It bundles in a bunch of low-quality software in an attempt to extend M$'s monopolies and also to push Passport services down your throat.
Why does it bundle low-quality products? Because it once bundled a very nice browser, and Netscape took them to court, ending up in a forced division and a heavy bill to pay (the court decision was overrided some time ago and Microsoft won't be splitted).
If they improved Paint to a top-product, they'd be blaimed by Adobe, Corel, Jasc, etc. You get the point.
Black_Vise
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I have been using XP for over a week, and its not all its cracked up to be. I mean, its ok, and a big improvment over Win 95, but there is something about it that I dont like, not sure what it is. So, I set about getting as decent Linux Distro. First I sent away for some Mandrake Disks, and when they got here they didnt work, on a number of PC's, but I couldnt be bothered to send them back. I also cant realy d/load the ISO's on as 56K. So I wandered over to Slackware and began downloading file by file. So far everything is ok, but I havent had a chance to install, as I am still downloading. Im sure Linux will be a better OS, as I have used various mini distros to test it out, but its all this d/loading, and bootdisks, and partitons, and shit like that. I dont mind, cos I find it quite fun, but Average Joe with his Win ME PC would Piss himself at the thought. Thats the only major lacking for Linux. It just takes a bit of extra work and effort to get it working. If that could ever be succesfully sorted out, I would prefer Linux much more than I do now.
However I do agree with bubsomething. I do reckon that MS gets there ass kicked for anything. Perhaps a little self control wouldnt go amiss every now and then. (but not too often, cos if anyone needs a kciking) its MS.
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Just a little note. I had the Mandrake disks for a while, jsut never used then.
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Originally posted by bubaslubas:
OK, has ANY of you guys had contact with XP? I mean, real contact?
It's easiness to use is at a level that has never been achieved on any of the previous versions of Win. It even tied on CNET's deathmatch against OS X (note that CNET has always thrashed Windows when against Mac OS.) OS X is spectacular (I should know, I own a G4) but XP is a darn good try by the Microshit guys (i like them as much as you do, but we have to give credit for their attempt). Just don't thrash the OS just because it's built by M$.
I just wished my os x had mp3 tags support in Finder.
Oh, I really don't care if many of its ideas have been stolen from Apple - just appraise them for having the good-sense of following innovation.
the last version of windows i used was ME, which in my eyes was "okay" - i would only prefer it over older versions of MacOS (9.x). i've heard XP was better than ME, so i guess it can't be that bad, but i'm very happy with OSX so i doubt i'll ever give XP a try.
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I wish I had paid more attention to Mac. I have just bought my new Athlon System, which of course cannot run X, which I would like to play with.
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Originally posted by condorstats:
I wish I had paid more attention to Mac. I have just bought my new Athlon System, which of course cannot run X, which I would like to play with.
i never payed attention to Apple either, untill i seen the OSX-beta news, and then about a month after i went and got an iMac, but didn't actually start running OSX untill 10.1, and so far i have had no problems with it, besides the fact that Quicktime runs kinda weird on it for me, but i can live with that.
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Originally posted by condorstats:
I wish I had paid more attention to Mac. I have just bought my new Athlon System, which of course cannot run X, which I would like to play with.
A note on terminology. "X" usually means "X-Windows", which can be installed on just about any *NIX system. "OS X" usually means "Mac OS X", which is what you meant. Why the confusion? Well, X-Windows has existed for ages, but would Apple let that stop them from using some silly marketing gimmick? Nah.
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Originally posted by Black Vise:
First of all, bubaslubas never wanted to say that WinXP is perfect. Microsoft promises a lot, yes. But go to any security site, and count how many exploits are there for *nix systems. And they too advertised it was "safe". Safer than MS's ones, yes, maybe. Safe, no.
First of all, the number of security holes in the various *NIX systems is lower than the holes in Winblows by several orders of magnitude. Secondly, *NIX OSes are patched many times faster than Winblows is. Thirdly, you sound like you have a pole stuck up your ass. How does that relate to the debate? It doesn't; I just felt like throwing some mud-slinging into the mix.
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Why does it bundle low-quality products? Because it once bundled a very nice browser, and Netscape took them to court, ending up in a forced division and a heavy bill to pay (the court decision was overrided some time ago and Microsoft won't be splitted).
No, Netscape went out of business. The government sued Microsoft. Why did the government give a shit about Netscape going out of business? They couldn't care less. No, the real story is that the only reason Internet Exploiter is a quality product is because M$ needs a monopoly in WWW browsers in order to make .NET work; the government sued Microsoft for using their monopoly in operating systems to gain a monopoly in browsers, which is exactly what happened you ignorant fuckface. In any case, the abysmal turn of events in said court case since the Republicans gained control of the White House is almost enough to make me turn into a Democrat. Hell, if it weren't for the fact that I believe Bush is right on with the military campaing currently in progress in Afghanistan, then I probably _would_ become a Democrat.
[ December 22, 2001: Message edited by: gump420 ]
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Back I am.
I see that the debate continues, and happily for me, it seems to have settled on a much more polite tone.
My opinion of XP has decreased in the last month, mainly because of M$'s attempts to make you pay more, restricting you from using certain features of the OS that were stated "available."
The MP3 issue with WiMP is inexcusable - buy a patch just to be able to encode MP3? And buy ANOTHER patch to encode at more than 56kpbs? NOW THAT IS MONOPOLY AND CONSUMER ASS-FUCKING!
Don't get me wrong, I still think XP is a "darn good try", but it's main fault is the "imperfections" it's "daddy" has put on it.
I'm currently trying to replace XP with Mandrake 8.1 and see how it works - maybe when Micro$hit shows a little bit more respect for the customer i'll give it another try.
Oh, by the way: anyone got comments on that iTunes issue? Damn, that was worthy of M$'s usual blunders. Glad they got it fixed before I downloaded it.
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Originally posted by bubaslubas:
Don't get me wrong, I still think XP is a "darn good try", but it's main fault is the "imperfections" it's "daddy" has put on it.
Bubaslubas, I am *proud* of you! *Daddy* is the real reason I hate MS so much. I was into MS for a while until I saw what was really going on and just plain made the leap of faith so as not to get caught up in the trap. I still do 4th level support for NT/2K, but I do not enjoy it. I refuse to touch XP just because of *daddy*.
I certainly hope you give Linux a real effort. It will be painful at first but I can almost bet if you stick with it and put in the effort you will like it. I'll do whatever I can to help, although I won't be of much help with Mandrake specific issues as I use RedHat primarily (underlying stuff is all the same and I'm more than familiar with anything there). Welcome aboard?
P.S. And I stopped calling you Bubbleass. (http://smile.gif)
[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Thank you VoidMain. I have already required your assistance on the Linux forum... Hope you have the availability to help me.
No offense taken with the BubbleAss thing... It's an actually funny mock-up. (http://tongue.gif)
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bottom line : windows is for lazy user.
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---maybe when Micro$hit shows a little bit more respect for the customer i'll give it another try.---
...don't die waiting tho...
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Originally posted by Calum:
this bubaslubass guy is really good! why doesn't she or he get a job as a stand up comedian?
My post isn't full of technical bullshit, i am 'only' a lowly user, and have had limited experience of M$ alternatives, but i have had a chance to use many versions of Windows, and what a heap of shit it really is. there's no argument. you guya are doing really well to be arguing about this because there is really no large issue to dispute. Windows is slow and cruddy. it allocates all its system resources at bootup time and plods through muck until shutdown time or until a crash, whichever comes first (guess which happens most often to me?) and as for drivers, as already mentioned, the hardware manufacturers are responsible for it, but they often only write windows drivers. My mitsubishi electric cdrw has had a driver problem recently, i went to their website and they have full driver support for 4 versions of windows, and nothing for anything else. It's a usb device so you'd think they'd at least have a Mac driver.
well, i haven't got a Mac so i don't know but what i'm saying is these drivers are often a steaming pile of poo themselves, or is it just windows' handling of the drivers who can tell. With said device i thought it was the drivers till i discovered that to fix the problem, i needed to change the swap file size using control panel, and hey presto working like clockwork.
Because windows fills up all the ram with crap, it uses the ultra slow swap file instead you see, so that you get a lot of buffer problems and read/write errors etc. by reducing the swap file size, it makes windows panic and empty out some of the crap in the ram, or so i understand.
Anyway, i've rambled off a bit but what i'm saying is that manufacturers try to lick windows' bollocks and microsoft, when it receives a particularly lucrative backhander, kisses the ass of those manufacturers in turn. With Linux, the guys using the system have got to write and distribute their own drivers! In their spare time! Can you imagine the usual drool-chinned M$ butthead doing that? Try hard. No? i didn't think so.
These 'my computer works fine with windows' morons have no concept of why their computer works at all or what goes into making a system. As we've seen already, many of these so called OS criticisms are actually criticisms of proprietary software running on those OSs and much of the reason windows works fine is actually due to workarounds that other companies have developed to make windows WORK. (i always thought that 'MS Works was an oxymoron, much like many MS users now i think of it...) I have to use one program to clear the ram when windows fills it up with goo, another to stop windows opening those mysterious background programs that write to the hard drive when you're trying to run scandisk et c et c.
Right. well, that's it. to sum up, i'm a no code non programmer user and even i know that M$ software is a pile of crap produced solely to make money and anybody that says otherwise has been brainwashed, is getting some of the revenue concerned, or has never made any serious enquiry outside the M$ camp.
End of missive, commence flaming now.... ;)
This is all great, I love seeing people break down and start using such childish language as has been used throughout this thread, though it has calmed down. Now I won't pretend to be an expert with computers at all. But I upgraded (no clean install) of XP on my dell computer that had ME. I had very few problems with ME and it ran games great, which is my main objective, to run games well. I mainly play CS and run several servers for our website. After I upgraded to XP, I left the computer on for over a week with NO crashing, if a buggy program locked up, just Ctrl+Alt+Del and gone. The system has been stable and NO crashes, friends in computer science courses can hardly believe the performance I get with XP and that I upgraded instead of clean installing. I get at least 72fps on CS with a 16MB ATI Rage Pro 128 card (even though the HL engine is old). All other games run great, with a ton of stuff running in the back ground, such as multiple webbrowsers, a program that remotely controls game servers, etc. (though I DO have 512MB of RAM). But I notice absolutely no lag or slowdown, but I realize that sometimes the components just fit and work together great and maybe I was one of the lucky ones. Also, XP is very easy to use for a noob like myself. Though there are some counter-intuitive things about it, such as going to the START button to shut off the computer, but overall, it rocks. Flame away ;) .
Fukar
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Originally posted by bubaslubas:
XP is a darn good try by the Microshit guys
i agree it's the best attempt ms so far, but other companies managed to make similar OSes 5 years ago!
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Also, XP is very easy to use for a noob like myself.
No flames here. It's a point well taken, and XP is better than Win ME (but that's not saying much ;) ). However, the main problem here is that it will keep you a "noob" forever. This is one of the things I detest about XP, and why it will *never* be on any system of mine (unless M$ gets this flying thing sorted out. The day Steve Ballmer soars through the air is the day I get XP :D ). It seems that every time you try to do anything, up pops yet another idiot box, no matter how simple a task it is or how many times you've done it. And take a good look at that desktop. It looks like it was designed for a four year old (you can take that almost literally. At Costco, in the toy dept., I found a toy computer called "My First PC". The screen shot on the front of the box bore a *stricking* resemblance to the XP desktop.) This is what M$ thinks of you. (http://tongue.gif)
I also don't want the nagware. Don't want a passport? It won't take no for an answer. Everytime you go on line it will ask over and over again get a passport. No thanks, I get enough nagging from the women in my life ;)
Use XP if you must, but do yourself a favor: try learning a thing or two and educate yourself to the point where you can ditch XP and get a real OS. You'll be glad you did.
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Why did the right honourable gentlemen quote a big block of my usual rambling OS related blah when talking about childish language, before rambling off on his or her own rambling blah? I wasn't particularly childish in that post was i? just because i said poo!
Get over it! i said poo and i meant it.
Adults are allowed to say poo as well you know, however i agree with you about the inflamed childish name throwing bouts! ho ho ho! very amusing... :D
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Poo! Hee hee hee... Poo!
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the problem with you people is that you are jealous... yeah thats what i said, you JEALOUS of Bill Gates' money. The computer wouldn't be what it is now without him so why dont you show a little respect for the man, he has done nothing wrong. He built his empire from scratch and he dosn't need little people like you trying to tear it down.
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Of course most people would be jealous of someone who has that much money.
Colombian drug barons have millions if not billions of dollars lying around... it doesn't mean that the way they went about obtaining that money is right.
Microsoft has never been an innovator, it simply latches onto good ideas within the technology sector, develops its own inferior solutions and markets them extremely aggressively. All this whilst ensuring that their products are sufficiently incompatible with those of their competitors to cause their software to spread rather like a virus.
As more and more companies rely on M$ software, those around them and doing business with them find that in order to continue doing business with them they must also get M$ products.
This spreads in all directions... customers are forced to use M$ products since a lot of businesses' websites are designed exclusively for IE. And since most customers use M$ IE, most businesses design their website specifically for it.
It's a viscious circle, and that's just one very small part of it. I won't even go into their extremely underhand licensing terms of OEMs that practically ensures that no-one buying a new computer will get one with any OS other than a M$ one.
Even if M$ were to make the best software in existence (only likely once there is no other software in existence) I would still be strongly opposed to them since the Internet, and the community built around it and technology in general should never be controlled by any one organisation, government or company.
Just consider the situation where one massive company has complete control over all the world's television stations. They produce all news programmes, they decide what everyone watches... they decide what is right, what is wrong, what you should buy, how you should live your life. Whether, in fact it really is *your* life any more...
This is Microsoft's vision for the biggest global media phenomenon since television. They will control the Internet, and they will control our lives.
They won't succeed. They can't be allowed to succeed.
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WARNING, THIS POST IS VERY ANGRY AND HOPEFULLY OFFENSIVE.
quote:
Cyrax had this to say for her/himself:
the problem with you people is that you are jealous... yeah thats what i said, you JEALOUS of Bill Gates' money. The computer wouldn't be what it is now without him so why dont you show a little respect for the man, he has done nothing wrong. He built his empire from scratch and he dosn't need little people like you trying to tear it down
JEALOUS!?! OF THAT LITTLE WORM?
Maybe in 'america' (where you say you are from) money is THAT important but i have the strong belief that actually money is only THAT important to those who choose to give a SHIT, wherever they are on the planet!
Cyrax get a life, instead of dreaming of somebody else's! YOU are obviously jealous of Bill Gates (though God knows why!) and his money! i wouldn't want to be Bill Gates if i had twenty times as much dough as him! get real!!!
And before you go off on your high horse, the reason i am so enthused here is not because you touched a nerve or any of that shit, it's because i am SO INSULTED THAT YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO THINK I ENVY BILL GATES!
quote:
The computer wouldn't be what it is now without him so why dont you show a little respect for the man, he has done nothing wrong.
This is EVEN WORSE! WHAT computer? yours? you are right, the industry would not now be the hamstrung opportunistic backstabbing shambles it is now without Microsoft. Mr Gates bludgeoned the open source movement in the head from behind and then called up his mates to put the boot in, before putting arsenic in said mates' coffee afterwards! (Metaphorically speaking, before you start).
And WHY should i show this git my respect? NO-ONE gets my respect until i know they deserve it! what a moron you are! you just blindly go around adulating and fawning over somebody just because they have had the combination of ruthlessness and luck that allows them to have more MONEY than you, do you? Pathetic.
quote:
he has done nothing wrong.
I will not even dignify this with a comment.
quote:
He built his empire from scratch and he dosn't need little people like you trying to tear it down
Dicksplash! no-one is doing any tearing down, you balloon! what's being advocated here is that people be given the CHOICE, do you remember what a choice is? If people want to continue using Microsoft's fuckware, then HEY! Let them dig their own graves i say! BUT! those people who choose NOT to subscribe to the Microsoft way SHOULD be able to run their computers totally free of Microsoft's products.
They're only one company, for God's sake! if you wanted not to run any software from, oh lets say PHATWARE, because you believed their stuff was unstable, nobody would mind, but because it's Microsoft, everybody wants to run around screaming "oh leave Lord Gates alone you bad boys, you are just jealous!" We have the exact same problem in the "Commonwealth" with those moronic royalists who think the royal family is a great idea no matter what they do. That's one problem you americans need not bother about.
In the end, if Microsoft can't even compete with an OS (Linux for example) that has after all been written mostly by hobbyists in their spare time, then HEY, it's just market forces in action! I thought you capitalists believed that if a company fails to make money, it's their own fault! Well, you can't have it both ways, dummy.
I will leave you with a transcript of a letter that Mr Gates circulated some time ago. Some people may have missed it. Read it and think about it. The main reason for communication is to share and learn, not to confuse and control:
quote:
AN OPEN LETTER TO HOBBYISTS By William Henry Gates III
February 3, 1976
To me, the most critical thing in the hobby market right now is the lack of good software courses, books and software itself. Without good software and an owner who understands programming, a hobby computer is wasted. Will quality software be written for the hobby market?
Almost a year ago, Paul Allen and myself, expecting the hobby market to expand, hired Monte Davidoff and developed Altair BASIC. Though the initial work took only two months, the three of us have spent most of the last year documenting, improving and adding features to BASIC. Now we have 4K, 8K, EXTENDED, ROM and DISK BASIC. The value of the computer time we have used exceeds $40,000.
The feedback we have gotten from the hundreds of people who say they are using BASIC has all been positive. Two surprising things are apparent, however,
1) Most of these "users" never bought BASIC (less than 10% of all Altair owners have bought BASIC), and
2) The amount of royalties we have received from sales to hobbyists makes the time spent on Altair BASIC worth less than $2 an hour.
Why is this? As the majority of hobbyists must be aware, most of you steal your software. Hardware must be paid for, but software is something to share. Who cares if the people who worked on it get paid?
Is this fair? One thing you don't do by stealing software is get back at MITS for some problem you may have had. MITS doesn't make money selling software. The royalty paid to us, the manual, the tape and the overhead make it a break-even operation. One thing you do do is prevent good software from being written. Who can afford to do professional work for nothing? What hobbyist can put 3-man years into programming, finding all bugs, documenting his product and distribute for free? The fact is, no one besides us has invested a lot of money in hobby software. We have written 6800 BASIC, and are writing 8080 APL and 6800 APL, but there is very little incentive to make this software available to hobbyists. Most directly, the thing you do is theft.
What about the guys who re-sell Altair BASIC, aren't they making money on hobby software? Yes, but those who have been reported to us may lose in the end. They are the ones who give hobbyists a bad name, and should be kicked out of any club meeting they show up at.
I would appreciate letters from any one who wants to pay up, or has a suggestion or comment. Just write to me at 1180 Alvarado SE, #114, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 87108. Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software.
Bill Gates
General Partner, Micro-Soft
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quote:
Originally posted by IanC:
Just consider the situation where one massive company has complete control over all the world's television stations. They produce all news programmes, they decide what everyone watches... they decide what is right, what is wrong, what you should buy, how you should live your life. Whether, in fact it really is *your* life any more...
Actually AOL/TimeWarrner comes pretty close to this. Have you looked into them? They own most of the most popular TV stations, Magazines, Movie studios, etc. An excelent Article in the Newyorker a while back did a feture on them and when you readlize the bredth of the control they have over what you watch and think, it's like: "OMG I have been had by Big Bro.!"
Freaky really.
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Bill Gates is a good businessman, and he is a smart person - no doubt about that. However, when it comes to his scruples, they are highly in question. He doesn't really care about his consumers, he cares more about the market share. Personally, if they made a decent product and did not smash anything resembling conpetition I wouldn't care how he was. The fact that they make a shitty product AND tend to stifle development is what really riles me.
Bill Gates didn't make the computer what it is today, you retard. He redesigned existing systems and packaged them nicely, in the long run. Why the hell do windows gui's so resemble that of Macs? X? Its because he ripped the idea and simply made it cheap and easy to use and install.
The fact remains that all forms of windows to date really are NOT for power users. They hide so much information about the base level system that truly tweaking a system simply cannot happen. You can code applications, sure, but they still have to link with some win32 api shit. (I am NOT a win32 coder and never will, so I have no clue the real way it works) The proliferation of shitty little programs that dont work is testament to this.
Ah fuck, what I really mean to say is that it isn't a learning operating system. It's stagnant. You can learn how to navigate around, but you won't learn how things really work, and that's the way MS would like it. The less you know about how they make things work, the more idiotic updates you could do yourself that they can sell to you.
Example: My netbsd laptop has a problem mapping /dev/vga on the new 1.5ZA kernel. After a bit of reading, I determined it was the securelevel setting in the kernel config. I switched it to insecure mode, and now it is working. This required a kernel recompile. could you do that with any current windows system? No. you would have to either buy a patch or download a patch a month after the issue with them.
Abstraction is good - in programming. NOT in system operation and configuration.
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax:
Actually AOL/TimeWarrner comes pretty close to this. Have you looked into them? They own most of the most popular TV stations, Magazines, Movie studios, etc. An excelent Article in the Newyorker a while back did a feture on them and when you readlize the bredth of the control they have over what you watch and think, it's like: "OMG I have been had by Big Bro.!"
Freaky really.
And it's about to get worse. Most of our news and entertainment is already under the control of about 10 mega-media companies, and a court just struck down the last couple of regulations to prevent total control by one company:
quote:
Mega Media Merger Mania
A federal court ruling on Feb. 19 delivered a dramatic victory to media corporations by eliminating important restrictions on media ownership. Analysts are predicting that mega-mergers of the past will seem like small potatoes compared to the corporate deals that will be possible under the new rules.
The decision "strips away a critical part of the few remaining checks and balances on media conglomerate power," said Jeffrey Chester, executive director of the Center for Digital Democracy.
The ruling weakens two of the main regulatory barriers that have limited the power of television moguls. The first is a 60-year old Federal Communications Commission rule that limits the number of broadcast TV stations a single company can own. The cap is currently set so that a single company cannot reach more than 35 percent of the national TV audience. The second FCC rule prevented a company from owning both a cable channel and a broadcast station in the same city.
The decision in the lawsuit -- which was filed by four of the biggest media groups, AOL Time Warner, Viacom, News Corp and NBC -- declared these limits "arbitrary and capricious" and not in the public's best interest. The cable/broadcast restriction was fully overturned and the station ownership cap rule was sent back to the FCC for reconsideration.
Both financial analysts and consumer advocates agree that the court decision -- unless reversed on appeal or mitigated by congressional action -- will dramatically alter the media landscape. Media deals that were impossible yesterday seem all but inevitable today. America Online can now buy NBC. Comcast, which is planning to buy AT&T Broadband, could buy Disney.
The media moguls reacted with predictable enthusiasm to the decision. Paul T. Cappacio, general counsel of AOL Time Warner, told the New York Times that the rules were "an anachronism" and were "not remotely necessary to protect competition."
Consumer advocates, however, say the ruling will lead to bigger and more powerful monopolies, accelerating the current trend of consolidation. "The 'prize' these companies seek is a digital landgrab," Chester said. Under these new rules, gargantuan media conglomerates will have the power to control the flow of information and therefore shape public opinion. "It will be freedom for a half- dozen major companies, not the public," Chester said.
More here: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12451 (http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12451)
For even more information, check out The Media Channel's in depth guide to U.S. Media Ownership Rules at http://www.mediachannel.org/news/indepth/fcc/ (http://www.mediachannel.org/news/indepth/fcc/)
While it's not specifically related to Windows, Microsoft and/or Gates, remember, Microsoft is the "MS" in MSNBC. Such deregulation will only increase Microsoft's power and reach.
Karen
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Man! It's too scary to even think about. The scaryest thing about it is that the media can make you think you have a choice in what you watch or what you think about it but you really don't.
Candidates for government office favored by the big 10 will get more airplay so more people will vote for them. Some bamd they are trying to promote suddenly turns up everywhere etc etc.
Heck it happens already today. When Harry Potter came out CNN did these specials on the movie. I never thought muhch about it until I read the article. AOL/TimeWarber OWN CNN! They can promote their freaking movies on a NEWS channel and make it look legit. It's like tricking people into watching a huge informercial under the guise of unbiased news brodacasting.
And yes, M$ is totaly interested in becoming a big media company. Thats why they own some of the big cable distribors and that WebTV crap. They have been trying to break in, niw with the X-Shlock and other things I think they may be able to push their way in.
God save us all!
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax:
Candidates for government office favored by the big 10 will get more airplay so more people will vote for them. Some bamd they are trying to promote suddenly turns up everywhere etc etc.
Heck it happens already today.
There are those of us who think it happened already more than a year ago. Supposedly, the CEO of GE (parent of NBC) went out of his way to reward reporters who covered Gee Dubya favorably and Al Gore negatively, and punish those who did the reverse. Furthermore, he made great efforts to convince other news media to do the same. All specifically *because* he expected Bush to relax media regulation if he won.
(a relatively short excerpt from a long article)
DEMOCRACY, GENERAL ELECTRIC STYLE
http://makethemaccountable.com/coverup/Part_04.htm (http://makethemaccountable.com/coverup/Part_04.htm)
quote:
Shortly after George W. Bush declared his candidacy for president in June of 1999, General Electric Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Jack Welch was contacted by Bush political advisor Karl Rove. Welch later informed associates that Rove told him a Bush administration would initiate comprehensive deregulation of the broadcast industry. Rove guaranteed that deregulation would be implemented in a way that would create phenomenal profits for conglomerates with significant media holdings, like GE. Rove forcefully argued that General Electric and the other media giants had a compelling financial interest to see Bush become president.
Welch told several people at GE that the conversation with Rove convinced him that a Bush presidency would ultimately result in billions of dollars of additional profits for General Electric. Welch believed that it was his responsibility to operate in the best interest of GE shareholders, and that now meant using the full power of the world
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It's funny, I watch a lot of news and the CNN channels are extremely pro democrat, and the FOX channels are pro republican. You can pick out the same bias on the big 3.
All I gotta say is, I'm sure glad Al Bore didn't get elected. It was bad enough with 8 years of Billy Bob - Monica Gate - "I didn't have sexual relations with that woman" - "depends on the definition of *is*" - "don't ask don't tell" - Clinton, and not to mention his dog (or was it his wife) Hillary. I can't figure out how Billy Bob ever got elected, and was even more befuddled when he was re-elected. At least he was smart enough to loot the place before he left, I'll give him that.
<Let the flames begin>
[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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Let's not start this debate here! Please, I get enugh of this crap elsewere.
This being a fuckM$ site lets remember good 'ol Dubyas quote on the M$ case:
"I belive in Inovation, Not litigation"
Dubya's the guy who's got the case fast traked, as well as getting rid of the proposed breakup.
I don't care who is in office really, thier all after their Kickbacks and I think Mr. Gates has a check written for Gerogie boy.
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Yes, and Al Bore "invented the internet".
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touch
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quote:
Originally posted by VoidMain:
All I gotta say is, I'm sure glad Al Bore didn't get elected. It was bad enough with 8 years of Billy Bob (yada, yada, yada)
[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
Talk about boring! Geez, aren't you over it yet?? Bashing Clinton is so twentieth century! Move on, guy! We've got a whole new pResident to bash - and he's busy marching us toward a corporatocracy that only Bill Gates could love.
Karen
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quote:
Originally posted by VoidMain:
Yes, and Al Bore "invented the internet".
Oh. I thought you were one of those "think for yourself" types. Guess I was wrong. Nevermind.
OTOH, what the hell, I'll do my bit to fight the dumbing down of America - if you ever want to get the truth about that internet remark - as well as the rest of the lies the press told about Gore - you can find it here (http://www.consortiumnews.com/2000/020100a.html). Or here (http://makethemaccountable.com/archive/Gore%20In%20Context.). Not that I'm holding my breath. I've found that once somebody "buys" a really big lie, they really don't want to find out they've been snookered.
Karen
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Ooops, just lost another Linux customer. Damn, I always stick my foot in my mouth! (http://smile.gif)
But your articles still say that Gore said he invented the internet which is way off the mark. He did however "jump on the bandwagon" in 1987 by requesting research on a US research and educational network which 4 years later established with the help of Congress see: http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/ (http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/)
This is a far cry from "inventing" the internet which to quote one of your articles, which in turn quotes Gore:
quote:
Gore's actual comment, in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer that aired on March 9, 1999, was as follows: "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."
Universities "created" the internet long before Gore added any of his little pieces to it. If Gore had taken the day off instead of sending that Request in, we would still be communicating on this forum as we are now. The internet would be nearly identical to what we have today so in my opinion cracking on Gore for that statement is totally justified.
Those sites are as biased toward Democrats as Rush Limbaugh is toward Republicans (BTW, Rush is always right!). But I digress, this is a M$ haters club not a political forum... Peace?
P.S. I didn't mean for my comments to upset you but I should have known better. Just putting in 2 cents where I shouldn't have, or at least toned it down to a penny. A side note, my wife and I didn't vote this past election because she would have voted for Gore and I would have voted for Bush so we figured it would have been a waste of time (I know it was pretty shitty to not have at least voted for local elections but we're fairly new to the area and don't know anything about the local politics).
P.S.S. Are there any other Democrats that you will allow me to take shots at since Billy - the draft dodger - Clinton is old news? Lieberman is probably off limits since he lost (and I can't help but think of the guy who played the father on that old TV show "ALF" when I see him speak). How about Dick Gephardt, he's my favorite democrat (not)? I'm sorry, once I find the tickle spot I like to keep tickling. (http://smile.gif)
P.S.S.S Don't take polotics "too" seriously. It tweaks me that there has to be so much infighting and nothing ever get's done. Ross Perot would have been a good president. A little man with an attitude! (http://smile.gif)
[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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who cares? all yr presidents can be judged by how likely they are to march innocents off to war? and while i am a socialist, i really think that a democrat's just as bad as a republican or vice versa.
I haven't even been to the US, so i am largely judging the politics on the basis of foreign policy and hearsay, this in mind, i wouldn't expect you to take my comments too seriously. (http://smile.gif)
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I agree whole heartedly. Ralph Nader once said:
"The only diffrence between a republican and a democrat is how far they bend over for corpret america."
But screw politics, this is an anti-M$ site!
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Hey,
quote:
Originally posted by VoidMain:
P.S. I didn't mean for my comments to upset you but I should have known better. Just putting in 2 cents where I shouldn't have, or at least toned it down to a penny. A side note, my wife and I didn't vote this past election because she would have voted for Gore and I would have voted for Bush so we figured it would have been a waste of time (I know it was pretty shitty to not have at least voted for local elections but we're fairly new to the area and don't know anything about the local politics).
]
With regard to the president it really does not matter whether you vote or not since the president is elected by the electorial college. Unfortuantely at the same time as the presidential election there are a variety of local and state elections such as comptroller, judges, possibly school baord etc. So just because yours and your wifes votes would cancel each other for president does not mean you should not vote.
Please take the time to vote. It is important to your community.
P.S.S.S Don't take polotics "too" seriously. It tweaks me that there has to be so much infighting and nothing ever get's done. Ross Perot would have been a good president. A little man with an attitude! (http://smile.gif)
Unfortunately we have no choice but to take politics seriously. If we (the people) don't take politics seriously who will (the politians will). That is a bit of a scary thought. (http://smile.gif)
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Centurian, read the first quote of mine that you pasted in your message. I said that we were new to the area so we did not yet know the local politics, otherwise we would have voted. I feel that we did a better service by not voting on something we new nothing about rather than voting for the "wrong" choice.
And you are "somewhat" right about the electoral college but as witnessed by this last election "every" vote can count. The electoral college can be swayed one way or the other by a single vote majority.
And you are right, politics should be taken seriously, especially for the reasons you state but not taken seriously on a world wide forum such as this. I don't believe our friendly European, Canadian, and other members of this forum could really give a hoot. On the other hand, they may give a hoot when it comes to your world-wide companies (such as M$).
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quote:
Originally posted by VoidMain:
Ooops, just lost another Linux customer. Damn, I always stick my foot in my mouth! (http://smile.gif)
Don't be silly. A good idea is a good idea, regardless of which brand of loony it comes from ;)
quote:
Universities "created" the internet long before Gore added any of his little pieces to it. If Gore had taken the day off instead of sending that Request in, we would still be communicating on this forum as we are now. The internet would be nearly identical to what we have today so in my opinion cracking on Gore for that statement is totally justified.
No, I don't agree that the "cracking on Gore" was justified - at least, not in the way it was done.
It's true that universities (along with DARPA) "created" the internet, but the legislation he promoted went a long way towards providing the framework that made it available to the general public. Would somebody else have done it, if he hadn't? Probably... the point is, he DID promote that research legislation (and the discussion in question WAS about his service in Congress). Did Ol' Al sometimes exaggerate his influence on policies and such? Yeah - as every politician does when he or she is campaigning.
But in terms of that campaign rhetoric justifying the slams on Gore from the press, I don't think so. The point of the article I cited was that the press did not accurately report his statements... instead, they "rephrased" it into something that arguably WASN'T true (but was NOT what he said), THEN slammed him for being a liar. Same thing with the Love Canal statement and the Love Story statement and a host of others. The question in my mind is not "did Gore do as all politicians do on the campaign trail" - or even "did the opposition use his statements against him" (well duh! that's what opponents do). The question is, did those statments get fair treatment in the press - which is charged with unbiased reporting so that citizens can make informed decisions. I don't think they did, and therefore I feel the press was derelict in its duty. (And, of course, I feel we are all paying the price for it now.)
quote:
Those sites are as biased toward Democrats as Rush Limbaugh is toward Republicans (BTW, Rush is always right!).
If he's right, I take what's left! <G> But, yeah, the sites I listed are the "left side" of the arguement. The fact is, IMHO, it's hard to find any *unbiased* press anymore. And, it's my belief (though I know you disagree) that there's precious little coverage of "liberal" views (or, more importantly for this forum, anti-corporatocracy views) in the mainstream press. The range on PBS, ABC and CBS runs the whole gamut from the far-right all the way to the center. And the range on FOX, NBC, and MSNBC (and CNN, at least since the "war on terra" started) runs the whole gamut from right to far-far-far right.
quote:
But I digress, this is a M$ haters club not a political forum... Peace?
Always. My dad is probably just as conservative as you are, and I *love* him - so, I certainly ought to be able to at least tolerate you. <G> And I know this is a M$ hater's forum, and normally wouldn't have brought politics into it... but, in my mind, Gates' activities are just pieces of of the larger puzzle (or should I say, maze) that is the "corporate cronyism" of Capitol Hill and the White House. As I've said before, I think it's great that the person that builds a better mouse-trap has the opportunity to succeed in our country. I think it's despicable that corporations (like M$) can use their wealth and power to rig the system so that the better-moustrap builder is shut out of that opportunity - which, as we've seen in the case of M$, leads to a situation where it doesn't MATTER how good M$'s products are, because there isn't any alternative to them. (Yes, I know there really are alternatives, but to the average consumer, the system is rigged so that there certainly *appears* to be no alternative - and that's all M$ needs to extend its "monopoly" of the market.)
My underlying philosophy about capitalism (and the thing that makes most people call me a liberal) is that, if corporations have the same rights as "persons" under our laws, they should be treated like persons when it comes to responsibilities and restrictions too. Our laws don't allow a *person* to blackmail us, or beat us up and take our "stuff", or poison our well, or prevent us from exercising our constitutional rights, why should our laws allow corporations to do it?
quote:
P.S. I didn't mean for my comments to upset you but I should have known better.
Oh, I'm not all that upset. I'm just mystified at how you can see the wrongs of M$ so clearly, and not see that Bush's policies will foster MORE wrongs just like it.
quote:
P.S.S. Are there any other Democrats that you will allow me to take shots at since Billy - the draft dodger - Clinton is old news? Lieberman is probably off limits since he lost (and I can't help but think of the guy who played the father on that old TV show "ALF" when I see him speak). How about Dick Gephardt, he's my favorite democrat (not)? I'm sorry, once I find the tickle spot I like to keep tickling. (http://smile.gif)
Hmm, lessee... Well, first of all, feel free to take pot-shots at "Holier-than-thou" Lieberman (and lately, "Hawkier-than-thou"). And Gephardt? Well, he's turned into a wimp. I didn't agree with everything he espoused (I'm not as liberal as you think I am) - but he *used* to passionately defend his liberal principles. That was something I could respect. Now he's falling all over himself not to criticize the pResident. I firmly believe that our democracy works best when passionate advocates of different philosophies ALL have a chance to influence our policy. That doesn't happen when one side unilaterally disarms. As that great Republican President Eisenhower said:
quote:
Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels--men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, we may never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower, May 31, 1954
Oh, yeah, and feel free to have at Gary Condit too. I think the man's a sleazeball. Torch isn't my favorite Democrat, and Trafficant...? PULEEZE!
quote:
P.S.S.S Don't take polotics "too" seriously.
I know that "polotics" was just a typo - but when I read it, my minds eye read "plot-itics" - which seems to me to be as accurate as any other description of what goes on these days. :D
Karen
[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: Karen ]
[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: Karen ]
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quote:
Originally posted by VoidMain:
I don't believe our friendly European, Canadian, and other members of this forum could really give a hoot. On the other hand, they may give a hoot when it comes to your world-wide companies (such as M$).
In some ways, US politics and the power of world-wide companies are two sides of the same coin. It was NAFTA that gave companies the right to sue governments for regulations or restrictions that "hurt" their profits. Now Bush intends to include the same language in the "FTAA" (Free Trade Area of the Americas), and the US trade negotiators are pressing for the same language to be included in the WTO agreements. As the world's last-standing "800 pound gorilla", I suspect the US will get its way.
This kind of so-called "regulatory takings" language puts corporations in the position of being able to trump any govenments' law that prevents them from making all the profits they want to make. The Methanex case is the poster-child for that "corporate right-to-profit" movement, but really, imagine that power in the hands of Bill Gates, hmmm?
(If you're not familiar with it, Methanex is a Canadian Company that sued California over an environmental regulation that banned the sale of their gasoline additive in the state because it had been found to cause cancer. More here (http://www.globalexchange.org/ftaa/news2001/nyt031101.html). Lest you think it's just "foreign companies" I object to, here's (http://www.foe.org/act/metalcladpr.html) a US company doing the same thing to Mexico. A definitive look at this issue (from the liberal point of view) and its potential impact, not just on international trade, but on domestic law, is found in the 10/15/01 issue of The Nation: The Right and US Trade Law: Invalidating the 20th Century (http://www.thenation.com/docPrint.mhtml?i=20011015&s=greider).)
Perhaps my new slogan should be "Corporatocracy: It's Not Just For America Anymore!"
Karen
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quote:
Originally posted by VoidMain:
Centurian, read the first quote of mine that you pasted in your message. I said that we were new to the area so we did not yet know the local politics, otherwise we would have voted. I feel that we did a better service by not voting on something we new nothing about rather than voting for the "wrong" choice.
My mistake. Under those circumstances I may not have voted either.
quote:
And you are "somewhat" right about the electoral college but as witnessed by this last election "every" vote can count. The electoral college can be swayed one way or the other by a single vote majority.
The other side of the same coin is that one of our presidents (his name escapes me at this moment) was elected in spite of the popular vote going to his opponent.
quote:
And you are right, politics should be taken seriously, especially for the reasons you state but not taken seriously on a world wide forum such as this. I don't believe our friendly European, Canadian, and other members of this forum could really give a hoot. On the other hand, they may give a hoot when it comes to your world-wide companies (such as M$).
As Karen has just pointed out the politics of the US are becoming everyones concern. In much the same manner as politics in the middle east are everyones concern or for that matter politics anywhere are everyones concern.
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Ooops (polotics). Hard two bee takun seriuslee wen ya dowent prewfreed yer wurk.
And you have some very good points. I however disagree with a lot of what you say but that's what makes life so much fun. I'm sure you, like I, have certain beliefs and know in our minds that we see everything crystal clear, but yet when the other person has a different view of the same subject ya can't help but think "how can this be? It's so clear".
And you are right about the media. All media is biased one way or another about every topic, whether intentional or not (most of it *is* intentional and obvious). Some media will tell you that they are not biased and they are giving you the straight scoop but that is impossible really, no matter how well intentioned.
You definately have your bad examples of corporations like your M$s and your Enrons (usually just a few people at the top that make them bad). But I believe there are good corporations out there as well, even some really big ones.
Now, I personally have a deep love for the USA, even with all it's flaws. I am very patriotic and spent 15 years of my life in the military. My hero is this man I know who is in his 80s and retired as an Air Force Colonel and he served in 3 wars. Flew airplanes in WWII, and served in Korea and Vietnam. You would never meet a nicer guy in the world and his morals and values toward family and country are unmatched. To me these types of values and morals are probably the most important thing in the world.
I'm not saying this is not important to the left side of the house but it is my "impression" that this is the case from several of the upper level lefties. Of course there are a lot on the right who do not have morals and values as well. I could be way off since I don't know any of these people personally but I get the feeling when I hear G dubya talk that he is sincere, he cares, he really wants to do the right thing and he is not trying to hide or lie about anything (I had the same feeling about his daddy). I believe that is why some people think he is "stupid". That smart people cheat and lie.
In the last 10 years I haven't been able to listen to too many lefties and get the feeling I am getting the truth. It was an opinion formed on my own and by no ones preaching to me. B.C. may have had a lot to do with me losing that trust but it's there. I had that especially had that feeling the first time I saw B.C. and heard him speak. As time went on my feelings were justified. Maybe it was him alone that spoiled it for me, made me lose interest in politics, because my brain obviously did not work like everyone elses when it comes to politics.
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quote:
The other side of the same coin is that one of our presidents (his name escapes me at this moment) was elected in spite of the popular vote going to his opponent.
Well, this is the way that the English (and the Scottish and Welsh get caught up in it too) electoral system has been for centuries! take a look and you will see that our tottering "democracy" structure is actually designed to allow people with less votes to win more seats!
Also, if you really want to have a go at politicians, pick any Australian politician at the moment (Kim Beasley exempted since he resigned after nobody voted for him for being a wimp). I'm serious, whoever you pick you will find some horrible sleazy backstabbery in their past, left or right wing. Oh, or racist. There's a healthy "One Nation" following in Australia. It's all about making sure only people of European origin have rights in Australia, and 10% of Australians vote for them.
that's my 5 cents worth, since they don't have 1 or 2 cent coins in Australia...
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Hey Calum,
quote:
Well, this is the way that the English (and the Scottish and Welsh get caught up in it too) electoral system has been for centuries! take a look and you will see that our tottering "democracy" structure is actually designed to allow people with less votes to win more seats!
Also, if you really want to have a go at politicians, pick any Australian politician at the moment (Kim Beasley exempted since he resigned after nobody voted for him for being a wimp). I'm serious, whoever you pick you will find some horrible sleazy backstabbery in their past, left or right wing.
Unfortunately no matter where we live many problems are simular. What you deal I will deal with and vice versa. Which is one very good reason why everyone everywhere should take an interest in the politics of every country.
quote:
Oh, or racist. There's a healthy "One Nation" following in Australia. It's all about making sure only people of European origin have rights in Australia, and 10% of Australians vote for them.
that's my 5 cents worth, since they don't have 1 or 2 cent coins in Australia...
That sucks. Sound like a very racist attitude. So basically your saying that australia does not want the aborigeny (I hope that is spelled correct) to have rights within their own country. Kinda simular to the way the american indian and the blacks were treated in the US about 40 years ago.
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In a way the US was quite lucky in that they wiped out or assimilated their aboriginals before political correctness was invented.
Nowadays, everybody is in the media spotlight and nobody can do anything without everybody else crying them down, so Australia (which had 100 years less of a start on the US, and doesn't even have full independence yet) has still got some aborigines to contend with. Enough to make it ugly for them in the media, if the media weren't in on the act anyway. Which they are.
Did you know that an ENTIRE RACE of human beings was wiped out by the British military in Tasmania, when the whites settled and explored Australia? (not to mention uncounted animal and plant species) Also the Australian legal system STILL OFFICIALLY MAINTAINS that there were NO HUMAN BEINGS in Australia when the whites arrived, this means all former legal systems and rights (aboriginal ones) are totally legally void. this is known as the Terra Nulleus claus, perhaps wrong spelling, in case anybody wants to look it up and do more reading on it.
The white Australians will get there slowly but surely though, middle Australia is pretty powerful, and i heard a few years ago that there are now NO aboriginal tribes left, compared with something like over a hundred in the fifties, although those figures could be wildly off base...
[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]
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I believe that there is a way for XP to be "good"
and that is if Microshit fixed the numerous security leaks and left that stupid activation shit out.
WinXP is built off WinCE not NT. WinCE is for the palmtops, which have extremely little resources, so i have "heard" windows XP uses its resources wisely, just like CE has to. (unlike win 98 etc.)
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quote:
Originally posted by cyrax-:
The computer wouldn't be what it is now without him down.
...... constantly crashing virus magnets?...(well at least with windows on them)
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i know this has been posted somewhere else, but im much too lazy to read several 4 page long message boards on xp, so, has xp gotten rid of dos or is it just insanly hard to find, if it is could someone tell me so i will not give up trying to find it? man, i really miss dos right now. o well
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i haven't used XP yet.
but even if there isnt a DOS, if ya really needed it, couldnt you just install a version of it??
:confused:
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Can't ya just do a Start-Run and type in "cmd" and hit ENTER? Of do you need more than an CMD shell?
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i think i need more than dos in a box, and i could buy a program but....it would be so much easier if there was dos on my computer already. owell. thanks
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What do you need DOS for? There are free and open source DOS packages out there, you could set up a dual boot. Or if you have an old copy of DOS 6.22 or something lying around, dual boot it. I am very happy being completely without DOS or Windows even though I used to do a lot of DOS/Windows programming.
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i was born on the same day as bill gates, im 30 and live with my mother, i work as a MSCE safeway trolley man and live on scraps of food, so i believe i can relate alot more to M$ than you!!
wankers, i will hack hack hack you with a spoon.
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I think microsoft removed DOS for a few reasons, but mainly because they were tired of people who would call and bitch and moan about how they "accidentally" (i dont know how) formatted their system.
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I realise that I am on the fuckMicrosoft message board (before someone tries to be hilarious), but you guys have got to be more objective.
I hate MS as much as anyone else, but they build a better mouse trap. Unless you are computer savvy, forget linux - it bites.
The average user would not get past the installation "Wizard". Even if they did and a miracle occured and their modem/soundcard/printer/scanner/coffee machine automatically installed themselves (LOL), they would not know where to start, and the OS would not be forthcoming.
Linux may be more reliable, but that is being taken away as Windows becomes more mature - time to face reality.
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I don't believe Microsoft builds a better mouse trap. And it certainly depends on what you are using it for as to how much not better of a mouse trap it is. I'm going to test your theory on my parents the next time I visit them. They are the kind of people who have to call me and walk them through basic Windows tasks over and over. They certainly could not handle a Windows install by themselves (or at least they don't trust their abilities enough to even try it). I am willing to wager that I will get fewer "support" calls from them after I make the switch. I already gave them fair warning and they are willing to give it a shot. And I will give you good odds on me never having to walk them through cleaning up the latest virus they've managed to get.
[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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HappyGod:
Want reliable, powerfull, and user friendly? Try OS X! That's a better mouse trap if you ask me.
(shameless favoright OS pitch (http://smile.gif) )
I'm kind of on a high from screwing with my system all day. I can't belive the amount of things you can do thrugh the Terminal alone!
Anyaway...
My money is on Void. Linux can be foreign at first, but once you learn how to use it, I mean just simple "common user" tasks, it will do them, and never fail.
[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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well lemme see here i take it 90% of u ppl are losers who have nothing better to do, hey cmon own up i know i have absolutely nothing to do. i take it a few of you are just angered former IT workers who got laid off for being too fat or slow at your job and some of you were too slow because you couldnt reach your keyboard over that lump of lard you call a stomach, there is a new thing around called sport since most of you probably cant afford liposuction and well i dont think the doctors are ready to take 100kg of lard from a person so looks like you might have to take the much cheaper of method called sport, start by walking because; a. if you run you will cause a major earthquake. b. if you swim greenpeace will come and try to unbeach you and c. you dont want to break any of that sporting equipment in a thing called a gymnasium (remember those from high school. so why dont you all just get off microsofts back, sure they steal ideas and so on but you cant say that all of you have never cheated or stolen to get ahead in life and no that doesnt mean stealing twinkies fatass!
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quote:
so why dont you all just get off microsofts back,
why don't you just fuck right off?
if you don't have anything productive to say then how can you expect to be taken seriously?
you assume a bunch of wrong things about people here, and it's obvious you haven't actually read many of the posts here (i know you only signed up about half an hour before you posted this).
Would you like me to assume stuff about you? actually i get the feeling you wouldn't care. that is a healthy coping mechanism i suppose. i certainly don't lie, cheat and steal to get ahead anyway. maybe you are the sort of lowlife who does that sort of thing routinely and tells themselves everybody does it, in order to feel better about yrself.
i am not willing to insult you properly yet, as i think you may still see the error of yr ways ;) so let's hear more sense from you or i will assume you are a Microsoft borg who is trying to divert the intelligent discussion towards blatant arguing, in order to stop antiMicrosoft people from having a proper forum.
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quote:
Originally posted by HappyGod:
I hate MS as much as anyone else, but they build a better mouse trap. Unless you are computer savvy, forget linux - it bites.
You are exxagerating, as is the trend these days it seems.
Linux is not easy. it is a lot easier than it has been in the past. The same could be said for windows, though.
The main point is that linux is better for actually doing stuff. it offers a more stable platform on which to build an application.
I personally think that if you have a big plant full of programmers all being paid a salary, they will not care about how good or sloppy their work is, they do the work, take the cheque and leave at 5pm.
On the other hand, if you have a bunch of people who get a new system to play with, and they find that it can't do what they want it to do, then they write programs to perform the tasks that they themselves need done, that they will do the best job that they can, because the program is for their own use. Of course, if they make their program freely available at no cost, all the better for everybody else!
Linux does not claim to be a competitor to windows. it is just there. take it or leave it. insult linux all you like, it will always turn the other cheek.
Again, it's a matter of preference. as we say so often here, you should have a choice. if you choose windows, you should be allowed to use it (what with activation et c i doubt you even have the right to that these days) and if you choose linux or whatever else, you should be allowed to use it too. Microsoft wants to make using linux either impossible or illegal, the linux community doesn't give a shit about stopping people from using windows. that's it in a nutshell.
Oh, and Microsoft doesn't make mousetraps, they make software... what acid are you on?
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well finally i got someones attention, i was getting bored for a minute there and i enjoyed your reply, yes you are right i dont give a fuck but you are also wrong, i signed up about 5 minuts before i posted this not half an hour as u assumed. another one of you assumptions which is incorrect is that you believe i havent read much on this site, well i have searched thru quite a bit and a lot of it is boring but i was amused when i saw people taking the time and effort to bag eachother on this thing you call the internet. geez u can calm down a little. microsoft is dominating the arena because a lot of people new to this stuff are lazy or don't know where else there is to turn to, if linux advertised a lot more i'm sure they would get a better slice of the market and also if they could have it their way with computers that are released werent released with windows. windows sucks but i cant seem to find much else that wont bore me to death.
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no i didn't assume that, i said i know because i noticed your name on the "welcome to our newest member" bit at the top of the screen a little while before i saw yr first post in "today's active topics".
I "assumed" you hadn't read any of the posts here because you seemed at first glance to be talking out of your arse. You could have been reading these forums for months and just not signed up for all i know.
Well, it seems you are happy to stick around and join in the insults, which is fine with me i suppose (not that what i think matters, you will probably stick around anyway!) , personally i have mixed feelings about insults. I love a good set of insults but i do think they break up a good discussion sometimes to everybody's detriment.
Sometimes people don't know when to insult each other and when to keep quiet. :D
did you find any of lost's posts yet? he has a real talent for insulting people!
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u bet i'm sticking around, since i have nothing better to do. insults can be taken the wrong way sometimes, i mean i only do this for kicks and when people think its not a joke i find that funny. sure i may be new to all this internet stuff but who really bothers with it all, i looked around on this site a for a few hours and found a lot of stuff that didnt interest me. but nonetheless i'll add my insults and keep my mouth shut when i dont understand some of this geekspeak some of you guys spit out, sure u all think i know nothing but i might have picked up something along the course of my surfing, but anyway, you seem intellegent so i'll quit with you i might start bagging that idiot cyrax lol
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interesting to see a bunch of people who come from australia here! top cool! (i lived there for a while, but never got to see much of it, cos it's so big!) whereabouts are you guys from anyway?
couple of things.
X11 you are totally right, what bubaslub says makes no sense. how can linux be a crappy OS (or whatever he said) and still be good for mission critical systems and servers?
morgz i don't think you are any less intelligent than anybody else, everybody has a different experience of life, so everybody has something to offer, but i will admit that somepeople earn more respect from me than others! ;)
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HI!
My names Charlie Chicken and i live in Australia ! I am a fat balding guy who collects comic books like superman and the great adventures of catman(also catman visits the land of dogville). I dont see why you freaks dont like microhard? its because he was the most successful business man ever and your a feeble minded little man who enjoys bagging mr Billy mumphrey. i am a smart man who lives in a single bedroom flat next to a pet cemetary in a deserted town. i am a grave digger and i started playing with computers to pass the time waiting for my cat to die( i starved it) i discovered that windows is very user friendly and with what i have read i believe that linux is a pile of 1's and 0's who never should have been typed. that damn penguin should go back to where he came from and die. before i did him my own grave and die it my in myself for him. linus travelli was a pimple faced balding(at the age of 20) geek who enjoyed playing with OS's that only had the use of being a server and not a user friendly easy to use computer OD system. I live in a flat and have been left to fend for myself by making a paper mache bowl and making my own noodles (dont ask how). for a fork i had to use my pliers which i use to de-tooth cats who die and need to be buried ( the teeth dont rot away after time). so theres my life story and i suggest you leave bill chafes alone before i hunt you down and bust your head on the curbside.
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another thing,
xp automatically patches discovered security holes when your on the net. *nix dosn't do shit all, u gotta find patches and install them yourselves. there is a + for having XP. and u people say linux is uncrashable, ever heard of kernel panic? my system has had that many times. and my XP has not crashed ONCE. for you people that it does crash for its cos you fuck with it and TRY to crash it cos you want to tell everyone the "uncrashable" crashed. even if u do get a BSOD it recovers itself without rebooting.
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just relax guys, im here for a laugh ;) how am i doin?
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quote:
Originally posted by cyrax-:
another thing,
xp automatically patches discovered security holes when your on the net. *nix dosn't do shit all, u gotta find patches and install them yourselves. there is a + for having XP. and u people say linux is uncrashable, ever heard of kernel panic? my system has had that many times. and my XP has not crashed ONCE. for you people that it does crash for its cos you fuck with it and TRY to crash it cos you want to tell everyone the "uncrashable" crashed. even if u do get a BSOD it recovers itself without rebooting.
This was pretty funny, better than the pile of gobledigook before it :D .
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x11, he's just shit stirring, don't take him seriously.
Also re: Australia, no i'm Scottish, but i reckon that everybody is entitled to their opinion, however the aboriginal issue in Australia is a lot more complicated than i understand myself. Sadly most Australians don't actually understand it either. This is probably not due to any lack of intelligence, but due to a lack of education or information being given to people.
A lot of aboriginals seem to me to be racist, no wonder when you think about it, but on the other hand racists are not to be tolerated, so who's fault is it? who should fix it and how? complicated. The same with what you are talking about.
Before the whites (or anybody else not indigenous) came to Australia the aboriginals had a whole bunch of interconnected legal/social/economical societies and intersociety relationships going on. It seems to be popular to imagine them all as spear throwing imbeciles who were waiting for a decent society to show up (not because of racism or anything, but poor education). not so.
Actually the aboriginal cultures got pretty much eradicated by the whites who set up a totally different society and class structure where all the things the aboriginals held in regard or were trading in were nearly worthless. Due to (real at the time) racism many were hunted and slaughtered.
What i'm saying is, this was only a couple of hundred years ago, not so many generations, and we expect people of these races, who have grown up feeling excluded from a society they are forced into but that is not their own to adapt perfectly! some do. most won't.
Again, it's about choice. Like the M$ ethic, the white societies tend to say "do it our way or not at all". Wouldn't it be better to live and let live? there's a lot of space in Australia, and the two sets of cultures could have got on fine, except they (both) often wanted to fight. it's kind of too late now, as most of the people who were in those cultures are dead, and their descendants have lost that culture and not gained anything to replace it. No wonder they have no motivation and are a lot of them on the dole!
I don't think the indian reservations of the states were very helpful at keeping the native americans' cultures alive, and i don't think the apartheid of south africa helped any at all either, obviously many in the world disagree with me or those things would never have happened.
Basically i think Australia needs a lot of reconciliation, and it will take a lot of people and time to make it happen. It is up to aboriginal people to motivate themselves and each other mostly, until that reconciliation has taken place, and similarly the incomers should be doing the same thing for themselves and each other instead of acting as if they are waiting for the aboriginals to catch up.
John Howard refusing to apologise for the stolen generation doesn't help, neither does the screaming nutcase party's "get the abos out of my backyard" stance. Or the popular "send the boat people back where they came from" thing. Let me ask you, who were the first boat people? these are all very negative attitudes and instead of focusing on past hurts, we should be looking forward to making a society where there's no more racial tension.
Obviously a lot of white Australians will balk at the idea of reconciliation with aboriginals, not because there is anything wrong with it but because they like how it is now, and don't want to share the pie that they already have the biggest piece of.
I'm sure you know yr own history better than i do, and i'm not telling you what to think, just giving you my opinions to chew over. What worries me most is not that there's a lot of racism or apathy in Australia (because actually there's probably not a great deal more of either than in many other countries) but i'm worried that the situation might be getting slowly worse. I couldn't believe it when Howard got in again, even though Beasley was the only real alternative. And i was surprised at how popular One Nation turned out to be again. it worries me, that's all.
After two hundred years of prejudice, there will be a lot of 'biting the hand that feeds you' going on, but i hope people from all cultures can be positive enough to work through the difficult parts of reconciliation and reap the benefits.
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exactly calum... im just stirring. dont take me seriously, i was purposely trained wrong , as a joke for others entertainment.
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hi,
my names Mc fatman and I am a convict who was convicted for murdering my next door neighbours sister's budgie (shot it with a bullet). i think that linux is good and windows is bad. linux is bad because its gay and windows is good because its straight. straight people use mac0s while those weird gothic people use crystal balls. i have no idea what im typing and i think i should leave now before i get arrested.
by
waltzing matildarian :eek:
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ban that queer ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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so much for the productiveness of this post...
it keeps getting longer (5 pages!) and keeps coming back....
:(
get arrested ??
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I used XP for awhile and after it crashed our network and i had to reinstall twice i decided it wasn't worth even trying to get to know that piece of crap no matter how pretty it might look. A turd covered in perfume is still a turd.
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quote:
Originally posted by cyrax-:
hi,
my names Mc fatman and I am a convict who was convicted for murdering my next door neighbours sister's budgie (shot it with a bullet). i think that linux is good and windows is bad. linux is bad because its gay and windows is good because its straight. straight people use mac0s while those weird gothic people use crystal balls. i have no idea what im typing and i think i should leave now before i get arrested.
by
waltzing matildarian :eek:
click here!, (http://www.narconon.ch) <-- its the website of a recommended cocaine rehabilitation center
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MESSAGE TO: VoidMain,
You are on, my friend. You are also in serious trouble! If your folks are as computer illiterate as mine, your in for a rough ride.
I'll take your bet and we'll see. I'll even let you use RedHat as that is probably the easiest for new users (with RPM management).
I can't beleive you seriously think that new users could find linux easier. This is gonna be too easy.
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the new term for microsoft products.
Vampireware; n, a project capable of sucking the lifeblood out of anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to it which never actually sees the light of day, but nonetheless refuses to die.
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quote:
Originally posted by HappyGod:
MESSAGE TO: VoidMain,
You are on, my friend. You are also in serious trouble! If your folks are as computer illiterate as mine, your in for a rough ride.
I'll take your bet and we'll see. I'll even let you use RedHat as that is probably the easiest for new users (with RPM management).
I can't beleive you seriously think that new users could find linux easier. This is gonna be too easy.
You don't have to tell me about RedHat, I've used it since 1.0, and Linux before that. I am certain I will get less trouble out of them. And they don't have a clue what an RPM is, nor do they need to know. Remember, I'm setting it up for them. They do not install software. They will not even have the root password. And if they need something installed I can do it remotely for them, much more easily and faster than can be done under Windows.
I will surely let you know though. They are actually coming down this weekend. I should have them bring their computer with them. But I would rather build them a new one and donate it to the cause. which is what I will likely do.
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I dont know how this subject got so long, its so easy to decide and choose a side. Linux Or Microsoft, its no match Linux *WINS*.
But VOIDMAN you blew it man... Windows are for n00bs man... its so easy it has little bubble's that pop-up and Tells you what to do(WinXP). Look buddy i'm 15 and i'm A+ & NET+ certified, and it was easy to get where i am now.. it took me 1 year to deal with it while in highschool. Now i was once told to use Mandrake, and i did as my friends told me, it is an outstanding OS and it wasnt as easy as Windows.
But afters a few reformats and reinstalls of Linux i got the hang of it, Now my 10 computer network runs as linux, and my dad asks me "HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU USE THIS SHIT?", now when you go to windows everything is "1 click away".
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I dont know how this subject got so long, its so easy to decide and choose a side. Linux Or Microsoft, its no match Linux *WINS*.
But VOIDMAN you blew it man... Windows are for n00bs man... its so easy it has little bubble's that pop-up and Tells you what to do(WinXP). Look buddy i'm 15 and i'm A+ & NET+ certified, and it was easy to get where i am now.. it took me 1 year to deal with it while in highschool. Now i was once told to use Mandrake, and i did as my friends told me, it is an outstanding OS and it wasnt as easy as Windows.
But afters a few reformats and reinstalls of Linux i got the hang of it, Now my 10 computer network runs as linux, and my dad asks me "HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU USE THIS SHIT?", I only like microsoft for 1 reason. I have to fix their SHITTY problems..thats how i make money (http://smile.gif)
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Well, Voidman is seting it up for his folks, and I think the main point of the experiment is to see which one his folks can fuck up first. I got my bets that , once they get used to it, Linux will never screw up on them.