Stop Microsoft
Miscellaneous => The Lounge => Topic started by: preacher on 26 August 2002, 00:44
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This post is aimed more toward the recent rantings of thw www.unixsucks.com (http://www.unixsucks.com) guy. I just wanted to tell you that Im not fooled. I sat at home for a long time when trying to come up with ideas for my website and generate traffic, not to mention think of a domain name and so on. I even considered taking a similar route and creating a controverial page that would piss people off all in the interests of getting as many hits as possible. Then you come here(and probably to other linux/unix) forums, show off your url and you instantly have a successful site, even if everyone who visits disagrees with you it doesnt matter, the bottom line is in the numbers. Well guess what? Im not going to help promote your site. Or I could use you to help promote my site, by creating a site like www.GregorySuvaliansucks.com, (http://www.GregorySuvaliansucks.com,) but i dont want to sink to your levels.
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quote:
Originally posted by ThePreacher:
This post is aimed more toward the recent rantings of thw www.unixsucks.com (http://www.unixsucks.com) guy. I just wanted to tell you that Im not fooled. I sat at home for a long time when trying to come up with ideas for my website and generate traffic, not to mention think of a domain name and so on. I even considered taking a similar route and creating a controverial page that would piss people off all in the interests of getting as many hits as possible. Then you come here(and probably to other linux/unix) forums, show off your url and you instantly have a successful site, even if everyone who visits disagrees with you it doesnt matter, the bottom line is in the numbers. Well guess what? Im not going to help promote your site. Or I could use you to help promote my site, by creating a site like www.GregorySuvaliansucks.com, (http://www.GregorySuvaliansucks.com,) but i dont want to sink to your levels.
Preacher, you deserve to get the hits; that fool deserves a rap in the mouth, not a hit on his website. I'm curious though; how come the URL you have posted doesn't work?
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How about GaydenAnthonySucks.com?
Why you are running vulnerable version of Apache on your site?
Server: Apache-AdvancedExtranetServer/1.3.23 (Mandrake Linux/4.1mdk) PHP/4.1.2\r\n
http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2002-17.html (http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2002-17.html)
Why do I know about? Why your super secure UNIX solution tells me about it even when I have not specifically asked for it?
Why do you allow to browse "misc" directory? http://www.badconnections.net/misc (http://www.badconnections.net/misc)
http://www.badconnections.net/misc/snapshot1.png (http://www.badconnections.net/misc/snapshot1.png)
Do you think I'm promoting my site, in anti-Microsoft group, be reasonable? Do I think I get paid for no of hits?
And I'm not posting anymore to this message board becouse people here are like toothless dogs, they bark but can not bite becouse they can prove nothing. I have asked pretty easy question in thread "Can you do in UNIX" and has not got a single reply! (Apart from somebody who decided to maximize current window and this way limit user to single program).
Ok, here is what I think at this point (though it's my own point of view).
There is place for both UNIX and Windows. Time will show which OS will prevail. All what you are getting for free actually cost somebody weekends of coding etc. So you need to thank them for what they are doing, if it would not be for them, you would not have any points to make at all becouse as soon as you start talking Solaris, IPlanet, Oracle etc you are talking about price tag which beats Microsoft by 2 at least.
As far as technical aspects are corncerned then I do feel that Windows is stronger then Linux. You can try to make me change my mind but I can't see any technical data for that so far.
And what really surprises me is emphasis which was made on my rudiment knowledge of UNIX. Yes I don't know it well (may be not at all) but how long do I need to know it before you consider me to be able to make sensible decisions? Just not to be biased and see the other side of the story I passed 2 exams for Sun Solaris Administrator. Part of course included full systems administration exercises. I did install system, used backup solution, shared files, used central authentication repository (NIS), installed patches, profiled system perfomance, managed users, assigned file permissions etc. It's 48 chapters of common administration tasks. Have you gone through 48 chapters of MCSE course? Well, anyway, do you really think that in order to get a taste of soup you need to drink the whole bowl or just couple of tablespoons would be enough?
P.S. I do apologize to everybody for my racist statement. You need to understand that I was brought up in country when there is 1 black person per 100,000 whites, so I did not have a chance neither to know anybody personally no even talk to anybody. All my opinions are pretty much based on movies.
[ August 25, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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Thank you for being man enough to clear up the racist remarks. There are a lot of racist people in the world and I even have friends who make racist remarks periodically. It really bothers me when they do. And I have to admit that I also grew up in that sort of environment. I had never even met a black person intil I was about 18. I soon realized that people from the area I grew up made racist comments based on ignorance, and it unfortunately gets passed on.
And I do believe with UNIX you need to have more than a spoon full. When I first started with AIX back in 1992 (yes I am still fairly new to UNIX) I thought it was very difficult and didn't like it. But every day I learned more. After a month or two of serious work and learning I started to see the light. Remember, this is a time when M$ was not thought of as evil. The evil part for me didn't start until the Netscape/IE browser war began.
At any rate I have always tried to be the best and know the most about UNIX AND Windows. From that second month in UNIX on, Microsoft has been more of a burden than anything. I truely loved learning UNIX more than Windows. I believe because no matter how much you learn you can never learn it all. With Windows I get a boxed in feeling. Sort of like the feeling you have when you reach the end of Half-Life, or that commercial on TV where the guy reaches the end of the internet. I have learned that you should never say never because there is a way to do anything.
Now, you can use whatever OS you want, I don't get any money from RedHat, Sun, HP, IBM, etc. I do think if you want to strive to become the computer genious you are trying to make people think you are you need to know as much about UNIX as you do Windows. For the last 5 years I was the senior UNIX systems engineer AND the senior NT engineer at a major well known company. We used a LOT of NT server and workstation, we used a lot of Solaris, HP-UX, SCO, BSD, and by the time I left a LOT of Linux.
I can tell you that my favorite OS by FAR is Linux. However, I use the right tool for the job which is why we used ALL of those OSes. Now every day Linux becomes more of a viable option over all the other OSes (UNIX and Windows) so the numbers were on the increase on the Linux side and falling on all the other sides. There were several reasons that Linux was preferred. Cost/licensing, procurement, open source, development tools included, ease of prototyping and implementing a project etc.
So like I said, Linux isn't the best tool for every job (yet) even thought it can do most any job. It does get closer every day though. Again, don't cheat yourself. Learn more than one thing and then make enlightened decisions.
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Well, if my boss would tell me that he need to cut down licensing costs and have everything moved to Linux then I guess I would not have a choice. Though TCO is specifically have "T" in the beginning of the sentenсe which stands for "Total" (in remark to the guy who calculated TCO based on just initial purchasing price). There are some other factors involved as well. Just imagine no of support calls for XWindows becouse users does not know how to install application, how to mount drives, how to switch languages etc.
Untill then I'm happy with what Microsoft offers me and don't see anyhow why would I want to change, my life as admin is easier and time which I can allocate from studying how to use vi I can learn c#, so time is not vasted. And you still has not give me enough reasons why is that I need to have more then couple of tablespoons to see what UNIX is about. I did most common administration tasks in UNIX, so I know what I'm looking at if I would decide that UNIX is right for me. What is your point behind it?
P.S. On separate note to some idiot who posted that he charges a lot of his customers who has their Windows 98 installations crashed/virus infested etc. I never told that Win9X is great, in fact it sucks even more then UNIX. Win9X compared to NT is as far as DOS from UNIX. They share nothing except for familiar GUI. Microsoft NEVER NEVER promoted Win9X as business OS. And DO YOU REALLY THINK that if all Win9X base would be replace with XWindows there would be less support calls from average John Doe user?
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Though TCO is specifically have "T" in the beginning of the sentenсe which stands for "Total" (in remark to the guy who calculated TCO based on just initial purchasing price). There are some other factors involved as well.
Microsoft finally admited Linux has a lower TCO then Windows. You belive Microsoft, right?
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Well, if my boss would tell me that he need to cut down licensing costs and have everything moved to Linux then I guess I would not have a choice. Though TCO is specifically have "T" in the beginning of the sentenсe which stands for "Total" (in remark to the guy who calculated TCO based on just initial purchasing price). There are some other factors involved as well. Just imagine no of support calls for XWindows becouse users does not know how to install application, how to mount drives, how to switch languages etc.
Untill then I'm happy with what Microsoft offers me and don't see anyhow why would I want to change, my life as admin is easier and time which I can allocate from studying how to use vi I can learn c#, so time is not vasted. And you still has not give me enough reasons why is that I need to have more then couple of tablespoons to see what UNIX is about. I did most common administration tasks in UNIX, so I know what I'm looking at if I would decide that UNIX is right for me. What is your point behind it?
P.S. On separate note to some idiot who posted that he charges a lot of his customers who has their Windows 98 installations crashed/virus infested etc. I never told that Win9X is great, in fact it sucks even more then UNIX. Win9X compared to NT is as far as DOS from UNIX. They share nothing except for familiar GUI. Microsoft NEVER NEVER promoted Win9X as business OS. And DO YOU REALLY THINK that if all Win9X base would be replace with XWindows there would be less support calls from average John Doe user?
God, you're making sense!! Maybe we're rubbing off on you.
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Microsoft admitted that Linux has lower TCO then Windows?
Can you provide a link?
Here is what I found in comparing "commercial" UNIX with Windows 2000.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/migrate/unix/aberdeen.asp (http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/migrate/unix/aberdeen.asp)
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Microsoft will continue to piss off its customer base in the years ahead. As they do this more and more organizations will turn to Linux. The driving factor will be the issue of license costs and all the headache's surrounding licensing.
I started of in Unix on AIX back in the mid 90's, as diagnostic imaging moved towards full digital. I can tell you if anyone ever suggested doing any hardcore medical imaging on a windows box they would just be laughed at. Windows is a toy. Unix is a real OS that can stand up to the REAL number crunching demanded by real applications with no margin for downtime. Adding up a few numbers on a spread-sheet is not number crunching.
I have used more OS's than you have ever heard of. and only Unix/Linux etc are viable non-mainframe, non-mini computer OS's. Windows is a TOY.
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Now, that a lot of information to crunch.
So you basically saying that Linux/UNIX is better becouse .... becouse it's better.
Just wondering if ecommerce application like bn.com or dell.com or allstate.com would fall under your "serious number crunching" category.
Please if you want to say something then backup it with some data.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Microsoft admitted that Linux has lower TCO then Windows?
Can you provide a link?
Here is what I found in comparing "commercial" UNIX with Windows 2000.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/migrate/unix/aberdeen.asp (http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/migrate/unix/aberdeen.asp)
Wow, it's hard to believe that Microsoft would have pro-Microsoft information on their own web site. I actually recently posted the article on this site where Microsoft admitted Linux had a lower or equal TCO. Problem is, I just searched this site and can't seem to find it, or remember where I saw it.
Now, it's going to be hard for you to find unbiased comparisons but you can certainly search google for compaisons. You will find numbers supporting both sides. What you have to be able to do is see through the bias and who or what companies are behind the study.
Personnally, I don't need other people to figure this out for me. I am smart enough to know that if I need a solution that can be solved by both Windows or Linux, Linux wins *every* time.
[ August 25, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]
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How biased tpc.org?
Can you please find article where Microsoft admitted that Linux has lower TCO then Windows.
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i thought amazon.com switched to linux or something, or am i thinking about the wrong company agian.
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Amazon did switch to Linux but switch from Solaris as far as I know. So UNIX is eating UNIX not UNIX is earing NT.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Now, that a lot of information to crunch.
So you basically saying that Linux/UNIX is better becouse .... becouse it's better.
Just wondering if ecommerce application like bn.com or dell.com or allstate.com would fall under your "serious number crunching" category.
Please if you want to say something then backup it with some data.
http://www.top500.org/ (http://www.top500.org/)
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
How biased tpc.org?
Can you please find article where Microsoft admitted that Linux has lower TCO then Windows.
Didn't they teach you how to use IE and search Google in those MCSE classes? Geez, think for yourself for once.
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Did not you know that when you arguing about something it's good to have something to prove your point?
I have not found any TCO comparisons where Microsoft acknowledges lower TCO using google and IE. How about your Konqueror? Do you get better results for search usually then in IE?
And I have not found any Linuxes on top500.com.
[ August 26, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
Did not you know that when you arguing about something it's good to have something to prove your point?
I have not found any TCO comparisons where Microsoft acknowledges lower TCO using google and IE. How about your Konqueror? Do you get better results for search usually then in IE?
I guess I do get better results. Maybe you should switch:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/26230.html (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/26230.html)
http://australia.internet.com/r/article/jsp/sid/454490 (http://australia.internet.com/r/article/jsp/sid/454490)
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And I have not found any Linuxes on top500.com.
Then you are blind as a bat. Most of the systems are some flavor of UNIX, many are Linux. How many are running Windows?
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And after that you saying that it's me having biased views? Both articles are written by UNIX fans and there is nothing there about Microsoft confirming that Linux has lower TCO then Windows.
And where on top500 you found Linuxes? There is no OS data there.
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
And after that you saying that it's me having biased views? Both articles are written by UNIX fans and there is nothing there about Microsoft confirming that Linux has lower TCO then Windows.
And where on top500 you found Linuxes? There is no OS data there.
I wish there was a list broken down by OS but unfortunately I can't seem to find one. So it takes a little research by digging into the links of the computers themselves. You'll probably find that all of the ones that are listed as "self-made" to run Linux. I don't believe you will find a single Windows machine on the list. Here is one running Linux:
http://www.danforthcenter.org/skolnick/cluster.htm (http://www.danforthcenter.org/skolnick/cluster.htm)
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quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
How about GaydenAnthonySucks.com?
Why you are running vulnerable version of Apache on your site?
Server: Apache-AdvancedExtranetServer/1.3.23 (Mandrake Linux/4.1mdk) PHP/4.1.2\r\n
http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2002-17.html (http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2002-17.html)
Why do I know about? Why your super secure UNIX solution tells me about it even when I have not specifically asked for it?
There called HTTP headers, why are you using a vulnerable version of IIS?
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Why do you allow to browse "misc" directory?
Proably because he is not a paranoid little fuck.
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http://www.badconnections.net/misc (http://www.badconnections.net/misc)
http://www.badconnections.net/misc/snapshot1.png (http://www.badconnections.net/misc/snapshot1.png)
Do you think I'm promoting my site, in anti-Microsoft group, be reasonable? Do I think I get paid for no of hits?
I think you just get your jollies from it!
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And I'm not posting anymore to this message board
Your as bad as my ex girlfriend...
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becouse people here are like toothless dogs, they bark but can not bite becouse they can prove nothing. I have asked pretty easy question in thread "Can you do in UNIX" and has not got a single reply! (Apart from somebody who decided to maximize current window and this way limit user to single program).
Ok, here is what I think at this point (though it's my own point of view).
There is place for both UNIX and Windows. Time will show which OS will prevail.
Are you some evil Microsoft Monopoly Loving dick like XP Luser, Lucky i showed him that if Microsoft Succseed that it will probably take over the world!
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All what you are getting for free actually cost somebody weekends of coding etc.
Im one of those people which make code and submit bug reports, and then Microsoft come and rip it off (Windows XP Login for example)
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So you need to thank them for what they are doing, if it would not be for them, you would not have any points to make at all becouse as soon as you start talking Solaris, IPlanet, Oracle etc you are talking about price tag which beats Microsoft by 2 at least.
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Yes but the pricing is not per computer... I could install Microsoft on 1000 computers and Windows 100 for the same price. Anyway i paid for Red-Hat 7.3 and 7.2.
[qb]
As far as technical aspects are corncerned then I do feel that Windows is stronger then Linux. You can try to make me change my mind but I can't see any technical data for that so far.
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Microsoft Windows regularly crashed and is stricken to a GUI, Linux has high customizability. Microsoft server products are crappy because they are only new to servers. They are using there resonable workstation technology and putting server technology which leads to an easy-to-configure server. I used to like Microsoft in fact love Microsoft, i used to think Bill Gates must be a genius. And then i try'd Linux and it made me thing fuck all of Microsoft and that was in the Red-Hat 7.0 days. (Last Year) and i thought "What the fuck is wrong with Windows" because then a few months after using Linux and Win 98 because Microsoft cant program a kernel for shit. My Computer was wiped from a virus, which lead to me failing 3 classes last year, so then i installed Linux and only Linux, then i decided to try Windows 2000 to play games and a few other things. Its ok but is buggy.
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And what really surprises me is emphasis which was made on my rudiment knowledge of UNIX. Yes I don't know it well (may be not at all) but how long do I need to know it before you consider me to be able to make sensible decisions?
Well since you bring it up, ask Linus torvalds which is better... He has masters degree in comp science. And bill gates is a dropout. So obvously Linux is better!
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Just not to be biased and see the other side of the story I passed 2 exams for Sun Solaris Administrator. Part of course included full systems administration exercises. I did install system, used backup solution, shared files, used central authentication repository (NIS), installed patches, profiled system perfomance, managed users, assigned file permissions etc. It's 48 chapters of common administration tasks. Have you gone through 48 chapters of MCSE course?
No but on a old thread of this forum we found a 12 year old who had... it was on the news... so obviously you have to be smart...
Read "Structured Computer Organization."
its from 82 but has a lot on Unix and how it kicks ass!
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Well, anyway, do you really think that in order to get a taste of soup you need to drink the whole bowl or just couple of tablespoons would be enough?
So why did Microsoft servers go down earlier this year 5% and apache went up 6% according to netcraft.
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P.S. I do apologize to everybody for my racist statement. You need to understand that I was brought up in country when there is 1 black person per 100,000 whites, so I did not have a chance neither to know anybody personally no even talk to anybody. All my opinions are pretty much based on movies.
I am in a country where the racial tension has forced a new aborignal-only school in my area, and i thing your filthy!
[qb]
As for texas...
Any -e way i might jus goo smake maa wife in da eye
[ August 26, 2002: Message edited by: Ex Eleven / b0b ]
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You really dont know much about linux do you? If you look at
http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/advisories/2002/MDKSA-2002-039-1.php?dis=8.2 (http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/advisories/2002/MDKSA-2002-039-1.php?dis=8.2)
and
http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/advisories/2002/MDKSA-2002-039-2.php?dis=8.2 (http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/advisories/2002/MDKSA-2002-039-2.php?dis=8.2)
You should understand then that I am running the Apache advanced extranet server 1.3.23 4.1mdk, whick is the version that is patched for those super old vulnerabilities. If I was running 1.3.23 4mdk, Id be running the old vulnerable version. Look at http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=on&mode_w=on&site=www.badconnections.net&submit=Examine (http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=on&mode_w=on&site=www.badconnections.net&submit=Examine) and you will see that I patched that back in early July. You just made yourself look like an idiot. Just because Im a linux user and I challenge your ideas doesnt mean Im a foolish sys admin. By the way, I created the misc directory specifically for people to browse, there is nothing in there but pictures, but if you think you can break into my box with those pics then go ahead.....lol
quote:
Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com: (http://www.unixsucks.com:)
[qb]How about GaydenAnthonySucks.com?
Why you are running vulnerable version of Apache on your site?
Server: Apache-AdvancedExtranetServer/1.3.23 (Mandrake Linux/4.1mdk) PHP/4.1.2\r\n
[ August 27, 2002: Message edited by: ThePreacher ]