Stop Microsoft
All Things Microsoft => Microsoft Software => Topic started by: trickyt on 12 November 2002, 03:15
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Windows works. Whay would I want to change it? I'm not saying Linux is bad or anything, it just that out of the hundreds of people I know, not one plays with Linux. But for me it comes down to the simple fact that when XP is installed everything seems to work just fine. A few small gripes, like I wish it would boot up faster etc. But the main thing is that it does what i want without problems. If you agree, just post here!
(fire extinguisher at the ready)
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For these people it's more of an ethical issue. Most of them think Windows XP "works" well enough, but they believe Micrososft is an evil corporation and Bill Gates is $atan. They'd also probably say that you're taking a selfish and short-sighted stance with that attitude. Windows XP works, but will Palladium work? (how you want it to work, anyway) Do you want to keep feeding Microsoft until it's too late to stop it from ruining the computing industry? Do you believe in illegal monopolies and security through obscurity? And so on.
edit: I've thought of some more ideas. A lot of people are computer science students, so they want a porous and customizable OS with lots of source code. And, frankly, some people think Linux just works better than Windows. (I know that's kind of hard to believe) Then there's the issue of cost-effectiveness. A lot of people are against pirating software but don't want to spend thousands of dollars on proprietary software, so they use Linux.
[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: Windows XP User #5225982375 ]
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If you're happy with XP, there's not really anything we can do to change your mind. But let me list some of my reasons for switching to Linux instead of upgrading to XP from 98se:
1. I can't afford to buy a new computer right now, which I pretty much would have had to do if I bought XP. My specs are 500 Mhz AMD K6-2 processor, 192 MB of Ram, 20 gig harddrive. Can XP user or Zombie tell me that XP would run on my computer?
2. Better multi-tasking support. Windows 98se was okay with it, but it had its limits. With Mandrake Linux 8.2, I haven't yet found the limits. It can just handle more at once than Windows 98 can.
3. Stability. I've only managed to crash Mandrake a couple times since I've been using it. Windows 98 crashed about once a week, and that's a conservative estimate.
4. Excellent hardware support. You'd be hard-pressed to find hardware that doesn't work in Linux. Even if a piece of hardware is not listed as supported, it doesn't mean it won't work. My webcam works, even though it's not listed as supported in Mandrake's hardware database.
5. Lots of high-quality software available. You've got at least ten internet browsers, lots of media players, office suites, image programs, complex multimedia applications, and lots of other things that I can't think of right now. And the vast majority of it is free, which is a nice side-benefit. But I would gladly pay for this software if they did charge for it.
6. You could easily have all the software you'll ever use on one distribution of Linux. This could also be said for Windows XP, however, all the software on Linux is optional, whereas with any version of Windows after 95, the software is integrated into the operating system, and you can't remove it even if you don't use it.
7. LInux is easy to use. It's only difficult at first because most people have been using Windows or Macintosh only for a long time. But after only a few weeks, they can use Linux just as easily as any other operating system.
8. And the biggest reason of all: Not having to rely on Microsoft to have a usable computer. Instead of being competitive, Microsoft has resorted to predatory practices and illegal practices to make sure it remains the only choice in virtually all major software categories. Using Linux means you don't have to rely on Microsoft just to be able to use your computer normally.
edit: For the record, I'm not a computer science student, nor do I have any programming experience whatsoever. I'm your average computer user that wanted to reduce his dependency on the Microsoft monopoly, and found an excellent choice in Mandrake Linux.
In short, Linux just works.
[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: emh ]
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windows xp didnt work for me. believe it or not it crashed alot, and just random weird errors, somedays my digital camera would work, other days it wouldnt, same with an external zip drive. when i start up, the first that would happen is explorer crashes, right away. i didnt even have a window open. there are some things i did like about it, like the built in pppoe support, cd buring from explorer. but it really hindered my ability to get my work out at a decent time, i spent a lot of time trying to get windows to work. it didnt like autocad or 3d studio max 3 & 4 at all. i ended up putting windows 2000 back on that machine. less problems, still a pain in the ass machine. i have xp installed at work, where i do a lot of graphic design & 3d animation, and it just doesnt cut it. im shit out of luck on the 3d side right now, but when i get home, my graphics are done on a mac. why? because macs just work. because osX just works. i have my mac g4 next to my dual athlon windows machine. the mac hasnt been turned off, or crashed since i moved into my apartment (july, last summer). where as my windows machine has to be turned off everyday. that way when i start it up, its nice and fast. if i dont shut it down, after a few days it slows down to a snails pace. my mac still opens apps like i just turned it on.
quote:
Originally posted by Happy XP User:
If you agree, just post here!
I guess I dont agree, but i had to post.
i would like to hear more about why i should use windows though. i never really get to hear any good reasons why i should make windows my primary OS. all i ever hear is "everybody else uses it" "itz got more gamez" etc... i dont play games on the computer. i bought a gamecube to play games.
anyways. ill stop before i start rambling ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by Happy XP User:
Windows works. Whay would I want to change it? I'm not saying Linux is bad or anything, it just that out of the hundreds of people I know, not one plays with Linux. But for me it comes down to the simple fact that when XP is installed everything seems to work just fine. A few small gripes, like I wish it would boot up faster etc. But the main thing is that it does what i want without problems. If you agree, just post here!
(fire extinguisher at the ready)
One question. If you are happy with it, why are you here? And I don't *play* with Linux (well, sometimes I do). Linux is a tool, or set of tools. Much like a socket wrench set. I don't play with a socket set, I use it to get my work done. I guess I do use it for play as well, like right now talking to you.
I have a nice red Linux tool box full to the top with some of the best tools available that were given to me to use as I wish. If my tool box were full of Microsoft tools I would only be renting them from Microsoft, and they would only work on certain vehicles, there would be many tools missing, and if I open a drawer too far the Microsoft tools will cause the tool box to tip over.
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quote:
Originally posted by void main:
I have a nice red Linux tool box full to the top with some of the best tools available that were given to me to use as I wish. If my tool box were full of Microsoft tools I would only be renting them from Microsoft, and they would only work on certain vehicles, there would be many tools missing, and if I open a drawer too far the Microsoft tools will cause the tool box to tip over.
thats classic (http://smile.gif)
[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: xyle_one-point-two ]
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My main beef with MS is their politics and their closed source.
The fact that they force Companies to sale Computers with their OS, or the fact that have taken so many technologies from third parties with out at least giving the appropriate recognition to those companies/research teams. They present things that they didnt create as their own. Then we have their upgrades. What upgrades?
They simply stop improving their current version and they do new things to that version and present it as a new version. And you end up having crap pilling on top of other crap pilling on other older crap. .
To top that, they make you upgrade. Companies are losing alot of money because of that. Long live MS politics.
MANY MANY programs for example that run on WIN98 wont run with WIN2k and WinXP and vise versa. Where is the logic behind that?
Longhorn. Another screwup for the consumer. They will change the OS so much that programs that run with XP will have trouble running with longhorn. Even Bill Gates said that himself at Charlie Rose. I bet you my bottom dollar, MANY MANY MANY programs will not have trouble running with longhorn, because they wont RUN at all.
Closed source. The very fact that you are depended on a bunch of overpaid coders closed in an office is not that appealing to me.
The pace that the open source community fixes bugs and security issues is much faster than MS pace. he reason? You have thousands of coders from all around the world focused on a specific problem, and the best solution takes the lead.
I dont have to pay thousands to accumilate apps that do everyday tasks. Office apps (which in Red Hat at least you have 3-4 to select from, Compilers, Cd burner apps, DVD player apps, apps for day to day administration, such as "Norton Utilities" like apps and so on.
Windows has another thing that craps it out. Its the Registry. The registry can and will be corrupted after some time. Cold reboots, or code that is badly writen will mess up the registry. The registry would be a good tool if Windows was 1000% crash proof, but it isnt. And besides why would you need the registry? The bad outweigh the good.
Security. No Linux is not Virus proof and a Linux user in his right mind will NEVER say that. The thing is though, that Linux is more "tight". The whole structure of it makes it hard for your system to die if you run into trouble like that. Unless you log in as root all the time (which that makes you an idiot by default).
Freedom and flexibility. You are not locked into anything. Think of something to do with Linux and you can do it because of its open source.
Take an I486 and install RedHat8.0. It will run. Take XP in the same machine. Guess what. It will crap. Give me any Windows Version and lets see how many types of filesystems it can read. Linux can read so many that you cant even memorize them.
Create a powerpoint presentation with Open Office and it works with Windows. Make a presentation with Powerpoint and it works with Open Office.
Why? Simply because it saves it in many different file formats and read different formats. I dare you to find me a MS office app that does the same.
You wont.
Windows has the edge on the installation of apps. Click Click Click kazam you are done. This is not a problem though with Linux that is not fixable. Its not a damage to begin with. Its just a matter of polishing it up. Make it more easy. Suse is about to go head on with XP with their next release even in issues like that.
Red Hat 8.0 is a sign of things to come. Just take it for a drive and your jaw will drop to the floor. I can only imagine what they will do with Version 9.0-9.1-9.2-9.3.
The pace of development in Open SOurce is way too fast for MS to keep up.
I am not in favor of MS going down to the drain. To call the developers of MS stupid is not sound. They are smart but the way MS handles its releations with the outside world, will bring them down, because people are getting fed up. And if they go down, they will deserve it.
[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]
[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]
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Yes, I agree that Linux is a tool. It is there for people who desire a specialized tool. In the right hands Linux can do anything. It should be just a matter of choice.
What gets to me is microsoft's business practices. They don't want to give you that choice.
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Another thing, I have this computer sitting in front of me. Its mine! (Or would be if I was at home and not work, anyway). I paid for it, and I think I should have a right to decide what it does. I don't want it doing all knids of secret things behine my back to serve some rich man far away. It should serve me, it should do what I tell it, not what the company that made its apps does. I don't want it to shut off just because the criteria of that rich man has not been met. He has enough money already, he dosn't need any more of mine. I like freedom.
Face it, if your running windows, then your computer is not completely yours, it serves Redmond first you second.
V
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it is mostly about, are you ganna support a monopoly? ethinicity, like xp user said.
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quote:
Originally posted by void main:
One question. If you are happy with it, why are you here?
I second that! I also think that we have been over this issue a thousand times in the forum so why not do a search for those "why Linux is better than windows" posts?
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yup.. I'll third that.
And post this..
WINDOWS uses more resources, a stable and smooth OS like LINUX doesnt.
XP sucks..
Enable telnet Daemon on your system and let the script kidiots in Happy (http://smile.gif)
The Auditor
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ACtually, XP would run fine on our 500 mhz K6-2 w/192MB of Ram rig. You don't have to have a ghz+ processor and 512MB+ of Ram to use XP. Sure, XP(and any other OS in existance) will run better on newer, faster hardware. Faster hardware is a luxury..it isn't a mandatory requirement for XP. I tried XP on a 200mhz Pentium Pro, 128MB of EDO ram, 5GB hard drive, cheap ass Trident 2D video card system at work and honestly it seemed to run alot better than Win9x and Win2K did on the same box(MS recommends at least a 233mhz processor, but you can run it on slower processors).
[ November 13, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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XP is a pile of shit compared to 2k.. i ran XP for about a month.. then formatted and re-installed 2k.
Eats resources.. and resources effect stability and time.. time is money..
And i got bored.
Sorry.. i hate XP.. and Microsoft..
The Auditor
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quote:
Originally posted by The Auditor:
yup.. I'll third that.
And post this..
WINDOWS uses more resources, a stable and smooth OS like LINUX doesnt.
XP sucks..
Enable telnet Daemon on your system and let the script kidiots in Happy (http://smile.gif)
The Auditor
I love linux, once I get my modem to work i'll never go back to windows. but linux is using about 190-240mb of ram, i've disabled almost every service. Windows always takes 97mb of ram, unless i'm running vmware, then it goes up to 240mb.
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hmm, mine doesnt even come close to that use.
I run piles of programs on both OS's.. 2k and Linux Mandrake 9 (however.. still missing my modem drivers (http://smile.gif) ) and i have nowhere near that useage. however, i have modified my 2k install.
Linux runs smooth though, and far less demanding on my system.
*shrug* just me though.
Good luck with the modem, hope you dont have to go through all i have to. (http://smile.gif)
The Auditor
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quote:
Originally posted by The Auditor:
XP is a pile of shit compared to 2k.. i ran XP for about a month.. then formatted and re-installed 2k.
Eats resources.. and resources effect stability and time.. time is money..
And i got bored.
Sorry.. i hate XP.. and Microsoft..
The Auditor
Yes, this valid point proves somthing about human intelligence. People are in herds buying windows XP, an OS which dispite being less stable, secure, and user-friendly than its predecessor, costs alot more, and on top of this has *product activation*. A user GAINS NOTHING by using XP over W2K, but LOSES ALOT! But people are flocking in herds to get XP. WTF!?!?!? Are people that easily manipulated by advertizing? I'm disgusted.
V
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yes they are, i am too.
in answer to the original question: quote:
(http://faq.fuckmicrosoft.com/faqman/index.php?op=view&t=66)
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I guess you could say Im the poor college student who cant afford the microsoft solutions for computing. I wanted to learn about programming, networking, and running a server. The microsoft solution would have required $3000 in software. Fortunately I was able to buy Mandrake 8.2 for $30, much better for a students budget.
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the reason that Microsoft does dominate the market however, is because it does advertise ease of use..
Have you ever noticed how most of the "dummies" series of books on how to do various tasks witha computer are aimed at windows platform?
Also, have you ever noticed how Windows makes a big deal about talking to other OS's?
very smart in a way, but very frustrating in another. a windows box has trouble talking to older versions of itself for gods sake!
windows was in a way smart to do that, it meant that other OS's had to make it compatible for their protocols to talk to Windows, while windows sat back and crashed.
i find windows networking to be one of the most infuriating areas of computing ive ever worked in though... So don't mind me (http://smile.gif)
The Auditor
Long Live Lun*x!
[ November 13, 2002: Message edited by: The Auditor ]
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quote:
Closed source. The very fact that you are depended on a bunch of overpaid coders closed in an office is not that appealing to me.
I have this theory.
Microsoft intentionally orders it's programmers to make it's OS suck. In addition to this, the programmers are incompetent to begin with. The "make this suck" order does not get canceled out by the incompetence, it works in tandem with it, having a devestating quality effect. What does quality control say? "Good, their following orders". Even though they never care to define(or do anything about) what counts as over-following orders.
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it's nothing to do with that. it has to do with hiring people while they are fresh enough out of school to be impressionable and accept low pay. it also comes from the business model that Microsoft uses which enables bullshit code to be written. the very structure encourages it.
Of course microsoft is a marketing company which does its own software, not a software company that does its own marketing.
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Just the fact that you can mess with anything windows has in the registry and your computer works better.. providing you understand a few machine languages.. is a testiment to how badly coded the OS truly is.
Anything that you can make better by typing NoDrivesAllocate and a value of 1 into should not be released.
The Auditor
Hex, Binary And ASM, Oh My!
[ November 13, 2002: Message edited by: The Auditor ]
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Sorry Guys.. i know ive posted this once already.. but this only serves to back up the point here! (http://smile.gif)
Bill Gates wanted to look good and impress everyone with his success.
He decided to measure Microsoft accomplishments against General Motors.
His comparison went like this:
"If automotive technology had kept pace with computer technology over the
past few decades, you would now be driving a V-32 instead of a V8, and it
would have a top speed of 10,000 miles/hour (160,000 km/h). Or you could
have an economy car that weighs 30 pounds (14 kilos) and gets a thousand
miles to the gallon of gas. In either case, the sticker of the new car
would be less than $50."
In response to all this goading, GM replied: "Yes, but would you eally
want to drive a car that crashes 4 times a day?"
GM further responded: If Microsoft built Cars:........
1. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a
new car.
2. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason, and
you'd have to restart it. For some strange reason, you'd just accept this
and drive on.
3. Occasionally, your car would stop and fail to restart, and you'd have
to reinstall the engine. For some strange reason, you'd just accept this
too.
4. You could only have one person in the car at a time, unless you bought
a Car95 or a CarNT. But then you'd have to buy more seats.
5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was twice as
fast, twice as easy to drive-but would only run on 5 percent of the roads.
6. The Macintosh car owners would get expensive Microsoft upgrades to
their cars, which would make their cars run much slower.
7. The oil, engine, gas and alternator warning lights would be replaced by
a single "general car default" warning light.
8. New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt.
9. The airbag system would say, "Are you sure?" before going off.
10. If you were involved in a crash, you would have no idea what happened.
11. To turn your car off generally you would have to close all the windows, simultaneously push the horn, aerial, and the handbrake down, then exit the car, and begin the entire procedure again to start it back up, you would accept this also.
[ November 13, 2002: Message edited by: The Auditor ]
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AIX - Making the hardware work
Linux - A tool
Mac OS - For the creative mind
Windows XP - Tries to make computers look like Fisher Price
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quote:
Originally posted by Refalm:
Windows XP - Tries to make computers look like Fisher Price
I'm starting to think that Fisher Price must have raped some of you at an early age.
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I dont like Fisher.. OR Price.
The Auditor
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quote:
Originally posted by Happy XP User:
Windows works. Whay would I want to change it? I'm not saying Linux is bad or anything, it just that out of the hundreds of people I know, not one plays with Linux. But for me it comes down to the simple fact that when XP is installed everything seems to work just fine. A few small gripes, like I wish it would boot up faster etc. But the main thing is that it does what i want without problems. If you agree, just post here!
(fire extinguisher at the ready)
Cause we are elitists hazkors, with supa powas. Our IQues ara way joo up high fo joo. We will analocolize Marsos planets and have bi girls riding us all eons on.
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Dribble Dribble, something about being a "l33t" hacker..
something about how no real hackers write like that after people started taking it seriously..
Something something
Format C:/windows /y
Thankyou, Have a nice Linux.
The Auditor
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ahh you need to see the web page to understand ze humor in it or lack of it.
I belive quirk gave it to me.
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i see..
Apologies if that seemed insulting, had no intent to be.
The Auditor
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fuck you auditur!!! I iz 133t!!!!!! I will DOS you noowwwwwwwww!!! ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by emh:
1. I can't afford to buy a new computer right now, which I pretty much would have had to do if I bought XP. My specs are 500 Mhz AMD K6-2 processor, 192 MB of Ram, 20 gig harddrive. Can XP user or Zombie tell me that XP would run on my computer?
yeah? heh (yes im ashamed) well my shitty little laptop has a 599 Mhz processor and all other specs are the same as yours only i have about 1/4 the hard drive you do, xp works fine for me. well, ofcourse it dosnt work as well as if i had an absolute beast of a computer (which im getting in 2 days btw :D ), cos i have to disable a few features (like the gay rectangle selection box which is fuckin gay and slows the shit out of my pc) but it works fine otherwise... dont get me wrong, i hate microsoft, i only use windows xp cos it looks nice (by that i mean the cleartype shit they do, but thats only cos i have an LCD, i might be changing my mind when i get a CRT) and the smooth as icons. heh and beleive me, microsoft didnt get any money from me when i bought this, they dont deserve it.
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whoopies, did i say bought? i didnt biuy jack ass shit from M$
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whoopies, i made it sound like i was pirating the shit.... nah, i got the school to install it in place of Windows Me
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sounds like a serious warped priorities scale you have there. why use windows if you hate microsoft so much?
there are more stable and more secure alternatives available at a fraction of the price, and if you still choose to use windows as your main OS then you must honestly be either ignorant of the alternatives or lying about how much you seemingly dislike microsoft, i'm afraid.
this article explains it in more detail (http://belg88.com/faqman/index.php?op=view&t=66).
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quote:
Cause we are elitists hazkors, with supa powas. Our IQues ara way joo up high fo joo. We will analocolize Marsos planets and have bi girls riding us all eons on.
AMEN!
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quote:
Originally posted by [calum@localhost]$:
fuck you auditur!!! I iz 133t!!!!!! I will DOS you noowwwwwwwww!!! ;)
ROFL
Auditor.... with an o. LOL
and im not worried.. DoS away ;)
lol
but first.. check my website (providing it's up again.. Machinekiller has a new router.. this = breaking network for a week or so... )
Hackers Unlimited Organization (http://www.huorg.cjb.net)...
See the founder?
;)
LOL
phj33r m3 4 i r l33t.. or something like that...
i never understood leet... people take it seriously now.. so i don't get it.. LOL
That only served as a site plug..
anyhow.. i just broke a windows box..
apparently the SAM files arent toys.
*shrug* it's my schools box.. i don't care (http://smile.gif)
mebbe they'll convert to Linux?
The Auditor
Hungry, Laughing, and hungry... but i said that.
*explodes*
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quote:
Originally posted by [calum@localhost]$:
[QB]sounds like a serious warped priorities scale you have there. why use windows if you hate microsoft so much?
there are more stable and more secure alternatives available at a fraction of the price, and if you still choose to use windows as your main OS then you must honestly be either ignorant of the alternatives or lying about how much you seemingly dislike microsoft, i'm afraid.
well, heheh, youre wrong, sorry to say. i never said i didnt try to pu linux on this peic of shit. its just that the school technicians stole my laptop the next day and reimaged it to windows me. you see, im a student. our school requires us to ave computers. we buy/rent/lease our computers. technicsally they are ours, but the school are fuckheads and have this policy about what you put on them. i know, its all fucked up. AUTHORITY SUX. nd btw i got xp put on there cos me is a hopeless fuckin OS, xp is at least more stable than Me, even on this shit.
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quote:
Originally posted by skaife:
well, heheh, youre wrong, sorry to say. i never said i didnt try to pu linux on this peic of shit. its just that the school technicians stole my laptop the next day and reimaged it to windows me. you see, im a student. our school requires us to ave computers. we buy/rent/lease our computers. technicsally they are ours, but the school are fuckheads and have this policy about what you put on them. i know, its all fucked up. AUTHORITY SUX. nd btw i got xp put on there cos me is a hopeless fuckin OS, xp is at least more stable than Me, even on this shit.
you could dual boot and they would never even know.
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http://belg88.com/uploads/ (http://belg88.com/uploads/)
And. . .
http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk (http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk)
And, of course. . .
YEAS i EM SMATERER THNA YUO BECUASE i uSE TEH LOONUX?? AND YOU U WINFDOW!!S1!!4$!!!
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Of course you are, if you can get good enough with Linux to use it like a poweruser, I'd call that pretty fucking smart... even if you talk like JeffK. After all, don't actions speak louder then words? ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by TheQuirk:
http://belg88.com/uploads/ (http://belg88.com/uploads/)
And. . .
http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk (http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk)
And, of course. . .
YEAS i EM SMATERER THNA YUO BECUASE i uSE TEH LOONUX?? AND YOU U WINFDOW!!S1!!4$!!!
:) (http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=127)
And while your at it. This. (http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=315)