Stop Microsoft
Miscellaneous => Applications => Topic started by: spinningheel4242 on 2 October 2002, 22:01
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Ok, I have to say that I just love this whole fuck microsoft movement. It is about time. The only problem I have in converting to the "good" side is the incompatability of certain applications. More specifically, with Mozilla. Now, I just love the browser but I find that a lot of sites are not displayed correctly when using Mozilla. But, most importantly, I like to play on the zone and you need Internet Explorer to log-on and play...Mozilla simply will not work.
Also, I have used Open Office and I like what it has to offer. But, again it is not totally compatible with MS and it doesn't display the same data/format as MS does.
Now, until these open source projects can truly rival MS, I don't think there will be a great migration from MS to open source.
I would appreciate anyone responding to these comments and maybe suggest some remedies. I will be one of the first to dump MS (as an operating system, browser, office suite) if the alternative can at least match MS functionality...
Thanks
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first of all, i believe any website that doesn't display right in mozilla was not created right in the first place. When developing a website, it is best to use W3 standards, and not microsoft standards. I havent used open office, but i am currently using star office, and it opens and saves in MSoffice formats. it also takes up less space, and does everything an office app should do. I have actualy converted a few people to star office, and they have taken it up to their superiors, talking about an entire office switch. I use mozilla on windows, redhat & suse linux, and mac osX jaguar, it can not be beat.
sucks that you have to use internet explorer to play on the 'zone'. i guess you could use opera (http://www.opera.com/) and change the identification to internet explorer.
ecsyle_one
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Various misconceptions to clear up first.
quote:
More specifically, with Mozilla. Now, I just love the browser but I find that a lot of sites are not displayed correctly when using Mozilla. But, most importantly, I like to play on the zone and you need Internet Explorer to log-on and play...Mozilla simply will not work.
You point is that the site you play does not accept anything but IE. This is not Mozillas fault. Get proactive and inform the site that you want other browser compatability. Tell them that by designing their site for IE they are losing 25% of their potential business. Most sites that display incorrectly are due to incompetent web site builders.
quote:
Also, I have used Open Office and I like what it has to offer. But, again it is not totally compatible with MS and it doesn't display the same data/format as MS does.
Now, until these open source projects can truly rival MS, I don't think there will be a great migration from MS to open source.
Again this is an inaccurate statement. Open office is BETTER than M$ office. Just because it is not 100% compatable with M$ does not mean it is no good. And to be fair you can save documents as .doc and I have yet to find a document that will not work.
quote:
I will be one of the first to dump MS (as an operating system, browser, office suite) if the alternative can at least match MS functionality...
Then it's time to change. M$ functionality can not only be matched but actually gets left for dust by other OS capabilities. It's not the fault of the operating systems or the writers of code. Change now, because I can already do more in Linux that you can in M$ products.
[ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: pkd ]
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Or you could get a Mac and run OSX Jaguare on it.
It will kick the shit out of anything MS can do, and guarantees compatability with M$ file format's etc. It is as powerfull as Linux/*NIX, but easier to use.
Best OS around right now IMHO.
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quote:
spinningheel4242: But, most importantly, I like to play on the zone and you need Internet Explorer to log-on and play...Mozilla simply will not work.
The zone is a Microsoft website. They occasionly block anything not Internet Explorer on purpose.
[ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: Refalm ]
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quote:
The zone is a Microsoft website. They occasionly block anything not Internet Explorer on purpose.
goddamn i hate microsoft
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Who doesn't? :rolleyes:
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You 'll have to make some sacrifices to get rid of m$ ... but it's worth it, it think ...
welcome to the forums !
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Just listen to psyjax's advice and get a Mac! ;)
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get a powerbook 180 like me! With OS 7.1 (http://smile.gif) At least i can play lemmings and star trek on it.
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I installed OpenOffice to "see what it's like" and I've not used MS Word since.
No probs with any Word doc - so far anyway.
Excel doc seem to be fine too.
MS's own software has compatibility problems with itself, not that MS are as honest about that as the open source folks are.
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Microsoft will always make their applications and other services as difficult as possible to run on non-M$ software. You can use staroffice to read M$ office documants, and you probably could get that zone website to work in Opera. But M$ has a long history of trying to keep competeing software from working either with M$ format documents or on wondoze at all. They have even been know to sabotoge competeing software. In fact, they are on trial for it in the EU. Its important that we do not reward M$ for this behavior. If they don't want us to see their web pages in competeing browsers, fine, lets not go to their pages at all. Lets not use their formats when possible. I know this may not always be possible for everyone, but every little bit helps. I suggest going to Linux today and taking it from there, you can always dual boot.
V
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Well to test it I just went to the zone in opera 6.03. I set it to identify itself as IE 5 before I did. It seems to work fine. I did not play any of the games there but the main page loads fine.
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for shits and giggles i went to the zone with mozilla, and got this message
quote:
Browser Not Supported
If you are seeing this page, we have detected that the browser that you are using will not render zone.msn.com correctly. To play on the Zone you need a computer running Windows95 or greater and we recommend either Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 or greater or Netscape 6.0 or greater.The Zone is best viewed with Internet Explorer. To get the latest version, please select the free download link below.
Get Microsoft Internet Explorer
Note that our Netscape 6 support is still under construction. Some games may not function properly while that support is being completed.If you do not want to upgrade your browser, you can still use the Zone, however some pages may not render properly and some games may not function properly. To continue using the Zone without upgrading your browser, click here
bullshit. it rendered fine. at least they let me inside (though, i didnt really want to go in). but, i bet if they had their way,and the DOJ stayed off their backs, you couldnt get in without IE.
goddamn, i really hate them. :mad:
ecsyle_one (http://smile.gif)
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Hey guys, I really appreciate all of the feedback on this one. Ok, I tried to get to MS zone and my bank CIBC, and guess what, no go. I wrote CIBC about this problem and they say they are working on it....ya...I'll believe it when I see it!!
As for getting to the zone using Opera, I haven't tried that yet. I'll have to install it and try. It is too bad that Mozilla won't work...or is there a way to change its identification??
Okay, now with the non-browser replies...
I have used Open Office on occation and it works great (until I copy and paste text from the web and then it is really hard to fix formatting). I have WordPerfect 2000 as well but the stupid thing crashes more than Windoze!! I have used Star Office...slow and crashed as well!! So, what I am saying is that there are alternative products out there, that work, but they either don't have the functionality or the stability of MS products (at least on my machine!!)
But, I will try to get past my short comings and really attempt to solely use Open Office instead of MS.
I am wondering though, how does Open Office stack up to MS in relation to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Frontpage?
Also, are there good WYSIWYG web design programs that run on Linux? And, what are some good Linux Distro's?
Thanks Again
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openoffice and mozilla composer are both free open source wysiwyg html editors. to use composer, start mozilla and press alt-f4, i think, to use openoffice for a wysiwyg, just save as html. unlike microsoft word, this will actually SAVE YOUR DOCUMENT AS REAL HTML!
may i say, all these apps that were slow and which crashed, did you try them out in windows? that might be your problem right there.
now, onto another reply: quote:
Open office is BETTER than M$ office. Just because it is not 100% compatable with M$ does not mean it is no good. And to be fair you can save documents as .doc and I have yet to find a document that will not work.
i can email you my girlfriend's CV if you want, it opens in openoffice in windows, and does not even open in openoffice for linux. Unfortunately if you open it in windows/openoffice and touch any formatting, the formatting has all been fucked up when you reopen in word. This is one document that has me beaten as regards editing it in linux. Until she relents and saves as html using openoffice she will have to reboot for each time she wants to edit her CV.
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To be honest I think CVs will be a problem, probably the biggest problem in general.
Why. That's because CVs were started years ago. They are constantly updated and they are produced using different versions of word processor. So you have the inherent incompatability with Word .doc format over it's various incarnations. Add to that it's changed between different word processor applications.
The issue is probably that the document is full of old formating issues that are no longer supported, deemed a bad idea or not carried through on an industry wide basis. Maybe it's time for a rewrite - and yes I agree with your following statement - you should not have to do this. You may want to try saving it as a rich text or old word style format. Of course you have probably tried all this (but someone might need this suggestion).
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Okay,
Now, I did install Opera 6 and tried to get into the zone. Yes, the zone was displayed correctly but the moment I tried to play Rogue Spear (you need to install some files) the whole process ground to a halt. Again, this is a Microsoft Site with Microsoft software so no surprise there. I was just hoping that it would actually work but now I'll have to resort to using IE for the zone.
And, thanks for the info on WYSIWYG html editors. The problem that I have is that I use Dreamweaver and would really like to use it (or a similar editor) if I switched to Linux. As of now, I don't think there are any powerful html editors for Linux??!!
Thanks
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spinningheel, mozilla composer *is* as good as dreamweaver for html. I have not tried it for dynamic stuff so it might not be as good as Ultradev. However it is *not* dreamweaver so if you do try mozilla composer do give it a chance to grow on you. Also, remember you can always open the document in openoffice which will give you different toolbars and so on, and you can also edit the html in any text editor (quanta is a good one, it has full toolbars, colour coded html text and a bunch of other stuff.
Don't make the mistake of thinking mozilla composer is not as good as DW just because it is free. GIMP is better than photoshop and it's free, and well, linux is better than windows and it's free... hmm.
Also, if you want desperately to run ultradev, you might want to try running it using WineX or another windows emulator, although i wouldn't hold my breath. I used to be in exactly the same boat as you and i am now happily editing my html in emacs on linux...
re: my girlfriend's CV, it is a word97/2000 document full of tables and the like that i suspect are all the same sort of thing as you find in access or one of the other M$ office apps. Since openoffice doesn't do access emulation then i think that is part of the problem.
Yes we have tried saving as rtf - disaster. Formatting mostly ignored, text boxes not supported, all sorts of crap.
Saving as html will enable me to retain much of the formatting however we will then not be able to control page breaks, also i would have to write the CV, and my girlfriend would not be able to edit it herself, since she cannot write html to the standard of putting in tables and shaded cells and so on.
[ October 03, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]
[ October 03, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]
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quote:
Originally posted by spinningheel4242:
And, thanks for the info on WYSIWYG html editors. The problem that I have is that I use Dreamweaver and would really like to use it (or a similar editor) if I switched to Linux. As of now, I don't think there are any powerful html editors for Linux??!!
Thanks
I use Quanta Plus. It does a very nice job. Check out my website. Parts of it were written in MS Frontpage Express and parts were written in Quanta Plus. You can't tell the which is which. (http://smile.gif)
I now use only Quanta Plus so as time goes by it will all be done in Quanta Plus as I make adjustments and updates.
Quanta Plus isn't WYSIWYG but it offers a nice preview option. Usually I just open the html page I am working on in a browser then as I make changes I keep refreshing it until I get it the way I want it.
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i use vim for all my html editing. No WYSIWYG crap.
Check out www.bobhub.tk (http://www.bobhub.tk) or www.the-abyss.tk (http://www.the-abyss.tk)
[ October 03, 2002: Message edited by: The Master of Reality / Bob ]
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Yeah, vim rules for HTML. WYSIWYG actually should be wysiNwyg when it comes to graphical editors.
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Blue Fish is also a pretty good Linux html editor. Most distros include it in their software packages.
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(http://www.otakupc.com/etsig/dolphin.gif)
Computers are like air conditioners: they can't do their jobs if you open windows.
[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: jtpenrod ]
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Ok, so what I have read intrigues me but I have to say, there is no prevailing reason to switch to Linux or Mac. Basically, there is no KILLER APP that makes it worthwhile. Now, don't get me wrong, I hate MS but I am not also technically inclined to learn a new OS like Linux (I can't be bothered with command lines etc). And the Macs that I have used just don't compare (performance wise) to PC's. I really wish they did cuz I would like a viable alternative to MS but there just isn't any. A lot of you say Linux or Mac are WAY better and easier than MS...well, on many regards you are correct. However, myself and my wife like EASY and SIMPLE and MS provides that. That is why Linux will NEVER become a decktop contender....it takes too much time and effort to learn.
And with all of the html responses....yes, there are good code editors out there for linux but I use dreamweaver or similar layout html editors. So, as of late, there are no Linux/Mac distro's that can match these products.
But, basically, one of the biggests snags is with games........yes, I love gaming and guess what.....only a few GOOD games are available for Linux/Mac. Also, I don't want to wait 6+ months for games to come out for Mac. Basically, the amount I have used Mac is very disheartening. I think they have a lot of potential but until they port with PC components....they will never win many converts.
I will continue my search for viable alternatives to MS (I am now using incredimail for email etc!) but I will have to stick to the other gambit of MS crap and crap until I can convert to a truly user-friendly system....
Spin
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quote:
Originally posted by spinningheel4242:
Ok, so what I have read intrigues me but I have to say, there is no prevailing reason to switch to Linux or Mac. Basically, there is no KILLER APP that makes it worthwhile.
I guess you don't understand. Linux itself is the killer app. You get everything in one package for free. A package of software that you would have to pay Microsoft over $10,000 for equivelant capability (that's not an exageration).
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Now, don't get me wrong, I hate MS but I am not also technically inclined to learn a new OS like Linux (I can't be bothered with command lines etc).
Have you used RedHat 8.0? You don't have to be technically inclined. My wife and kids use it exclusively and they are as far from technically inclined that a person can get.
quote:
And the Macs that I have used just don't compare (performance wise) to PC's. I really wish they did cuz I would like a viable alternative to MS but there just isn't any. A lot of you say Linux or Mac are WAY better and easier than MS...well, on many regards you are correct. However, myself and my wife like EASY and SIMPLE and MS provides that. That is why Linux will NEVER become a decktop contender....it takes too much time and effort to learn.
Have you tried RedHat 8.0? It really is a vast improvement. In fact Windows XP User #90909098234 even had good words for it. I *never* thought I would hear anything positive coming out of his mouth about Linux. I mean his tagline says "Open Source Now? Open Source Never! Go Microsoft!". That says something. I have been using it for several days now. I didn't like it at first but I come from the other end of the spectrum. I didn't like it because it was too clean and n00b friendly. I have learned to change my mind. I do like it and think it's much closer now than ever before. I would be quivering a little if I were Microsoft.
quote:
And with all of the html responses....yes, there are good code editors out there for linux but I use dreamweaver or similar layout html editors. So, as of late, there are no Linux/Mac distro's that can match these products.
But, basically, one of the biggests snags is with games........yes, I love gaming and guess what.....only a few GOOD games are available for Linux/Mac. Also, I don't want to wait 6+ months for games to come out for Mac. Basically, the amount I have used Mac is very disheartening. I think they have a lot of potential but until they port with PC components....they will never win many converts.
I will continue my search for viable alternatives to MS (I am now using incredimail for email etc!) but I will have to stick to the other gambit of MS crap and crap until I can convert to a truly user-friendly system....
Spin
Hmmm, how much experience do you actually have with Linux? Which distro and version? Those sound like outdated remarks for the most part. You are correct that there certainly isn't the number of games out there for Linux that there is for Windows but there are some good ones. I personally have a PlayStation 2 (well my kids do) for playing games. I just don't get into games any more. I like pestering people on these forums more. (http://smile.gif)
[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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Spinningwheel, when was the last time you used a Mac???
Mac's perform great when loaded up with Jaguare. Certainly fast enugh to do everything you do and more. All of the productivity apps, art apps, etc. are all released for Mac, offten before their PC counterparts, not to mention the fact that they run better overall.
Gameing on a Mac is not as bad as it used to be, sure we don't get every single half baked title that comes along, but we get all the good stuff. Beside's as Void says, spending 2000+ on a computer so you can play games is nonsense. Spend 200 on a PS2.
A Mac is EASY, STABLE, and shitloads better than any hunk of jumk M$ box. If you want a way out of M$ and don't wanna adjust to linux, I think you should give the Mac a good HARD look. I mean, give a new G4 a test drive. I guarentee you will be more than impressed, performance wise, and everything else.
A Mac is the way to go, you should be more open minded and give 'em a chance.
EDIT: BTW, the Mac is even more of a killer app. because under OSX Jaguare you can run all of the standard programs you do in windows, better and faster. And using XDarwin you can run a large variety of the open source software available to Linux. The best of both worlds!!!
How do you like that? Not to mention the fact that Apple is against Palladium and DRM. I mean ask yourself this, is your computer just a glorified game consol, or a tool for your everyday life?
If it's the later, than a Mac is for you. Problems, all of them, solved.
[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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Ok, I have to admit, the last Mac release I have used is 9 what-ever....even so, it sucked.
Mac's can not and will not compare to Intel.....give it a rest. There is no comparison between a P4 and a Mac system...and that is where my main conplain layes. Yes, the new Mac is all that and a bag of chip.....but guess what, is doesn't even come close to comparing to a similar P4 or Athlon system. So, please spare me the comparisons.
Now, I haven't used the new Red Hat Distro....I can't tell you the benefits etc....
All I know, is that MS offers a more user-friendly interface (don't know about redhat) that I can interface with.......
Spin
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quote:
Originally posted by spinningheel4242:
Now, I haven't used the new Red Hat Distro....I can't tell you the benefits etc....
All I know, is that MS offers a more user-friendly interface (don't know about redhat) that I can interface with.......
Spin
Well, that would be fair (should try RH8 though). Hey, if you like what you got and you're happy with the price you paid for it then that's all that counts right? I don't understand why someone who is content with their Microsoft OS would come here though. You are not the only one. There are 2 others.
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spinningheel, you do not understand, however nobody can make you understand except yourself.
if you are happy to use M$ products then be my guest. think of me during your next blue screen of death or mysterious system freeze.
My reasons for boycotting microsoft are down to their militant attempts to destroy consumer choice. if microsoft had their way you would only be ableto use their software and you would only be able to use it in ways that they have approved. This is happening.
The communities surrounding other operating systems and their related software do not care if you use those systems. I do not care if you use linux, or BSD or a Mac, do what you like. Sadly this is not what people expect. M$ have conditioned people to expect a militant approach from everybody. I often see rude people showing up on these boards (not yourself, spin) demanding that we give them umptleytum reasons to switch to linux, why should i waste my time? if somebody wants to change, they should change, if they don't then they can live with the consequences.
As for linux not being as easy, i have this to say:
Why is windows easy for you? it is because we have all grown up with it. I mean for years now microsoft windows has defined, and been allowed to define, how computing is done. Windows was based on the Mac GUI, but pretty quickly MacOS has tried to look like windows to make people more at home. KDE is an attempt to get the XWindowing system to act like M$Windows. GNOME is a copy of KDE. Many systems have bent over backwards to give you the microsoft GUI. There are exceptions, as i say MacOS was already similar to windows since windows is a copy of the Mac GUI, and RiscOS had the 'windows95 toolbar' a full SEVEN years before it appeared in windows 95.
Now, linux is a LOT more complicated than windows, and there is a lot more you can do with it. The windows GUI that linux desktops use is simply NOT good enough to showcase all of linux' features. There are two ways this is circumnavigated: firstly by making the GUI a bit more complicated, to incorporate new features. simple and obvious things like XKill, the hundreds of apps on the start bar, DrakConf being available on the desktop, and user id management that actually works are just some of the things that will immediately have windows users throwing their arms up and crying "Oh NO! Nobody told me this linux stuff was going to be so different", well that's just the tip of the iceberg. I am no command line junkie but many of the things you can do in linux are simply easier or only possible from a command line. tough shit.
basically i am saying two things here, thing one is: if you don't want to change then fine, nobody's forcing you, make up your own mind. Just accept the consequences of deciding to stick with unreliable, expensive and creatively repressive (this in response to the new copy protection thing) software. thing two: you have been weaned on windows. do not expect to learn an infinitely more capable and infinitely more expansive operating system overnight. Windows was designed to be for people who can afford a computer. unix type systems are for people that use their computers to DO stuff with.
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Ok, I have to admit, you have some great comments.
First, I, myself, hate MS. I am always looking for new apps etc to replace their MS counterparts (incredimail, mozilla etc). One major reason I still use(d) outlook is for my hotmail accounts. But, guess what, their recent changes (limiting storage, requiring log-on's ever 30 days) has made me slowly switch over to better webmail services. Can anyone tell me a great webmail service?
Second, can you tell me that a good linux distro will be 100 percent compatible with my PC hardware (2 year old Dell?). Also, would it be ok to run a dual boot machine...ie would I run into any problems or conflicts?
So, yes, I have been weaned on MS products since my inception and for that, I am infinitely biased. But I think that me just being here is a positive sign. I, myself, hate what and how MS has come to dominate the market. And, from what I hear, Linux/Mac have made huge inroads into making their products superior/easier to use. Because, if you look at the common user, most have trouble surfing the internet or changing their desktop theme. I, myself, was one of those people. But, a variety of factors have slowly started changing my mind (blue screens of death, freeze-ups, functionality limitations)
So, I guess my complaint about non-MS products has come full circle. I have many apps/games that are just not available on Linux/Mac. So, I think I will always need to keep Windoze for those. But, I think that Linux will offer a better day to day computing experience. Now, again with my question, what Linux distro would be well suited to a Noob running a dual boot machine?
Well, thanks for the responses and suggestions...
Spin
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Better free webmail?
MyRealBox (http://www.myrealbox.com/) (no pop3, no advertisement, downtime, 10 MB)
Yahoo! Mail (http://mail.yahoo.com/) (pay for pop3, few banners, 6 MB)
Swirvemail (http://www.swirvemail.com/) (no pop3, few banners and pop-ups)
O (http://www.o2.co.uk/)
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax:
Beside's as Void says, spending 2000+ on a computer so you can play games is nonsense. Spend 200 on a PS2.
[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
You don't know gamers very well. (uh oh. I sense an unorganized, pointless rant coming on.) PC's allow hardware upgrades (gamers always want the fastest everything. And when the PS2 is a 4 year old piece of aged hardware, PC gamers will be enjoying a Geforce6), many many more games, PC games are playable on all PC's (well.. Windows PC's mainly), while the console mareket is currently split by 3 systems, PC's come standard with a mouse and keyboard, which is certainly a major plus for any FPS fan. You have the higher res monitors (while some current consoles do offer VGA compatibilty though). PC's also offer mod capability, which is quite big currently. A $219 million industry isn't to be taken lightly.
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"(uh oh. I sense an unorganized, pointless rant coming on.)" Gee... way to give me credit (http://tongue.gif)
My take on the whole thing is simple. Sure you get all the upgrades and crap, but you will never have to upgrade a PS2, and you are insured that the consol will be viable for several years to come. I can guarantee that a PS2 is still going to have great games coming out for it roughly 10 years down the line. I buy a new $2000+ PC today, in two years, I won't be able to run crap less I upgrade my video card, or processor etc. I don't know about you, but that seems pretty silly. Sure, there are militant gamers out there who thinks the price is worth it, if that's the case, more power to you. I personaly HATE FPS games.
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As for Mac G4 vs. P4. I say the G4 will kick the shit out of any P4 running windoze. That horrible, crippled, disorganized, and badly designed OS can make any user experience horrible. Not to mention the software/hardware compatability headaches that will inevitably crop up.
A Mac works, and will probably allways work, plain and simple. So yea it compares to P4 wintel box, it flies by them.
It's kind of like the guy with a supped up civic and Im in a 911 turbo. Sure, your civic may pull ahead of me once in a while, but in the end, it's just a shitty civic and I'm driving the Porch.
[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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let's not ramble of onto a playstation topic, i want to reply to spinningheel.
spinningheel, i myself have a cantankerous piece of shit (but expensive, mind!) laptop whose hardware is determined not to work with ANY system (including win9x which is what it came with). I now dual boot between windows millenium (which has not seen light for about a week now) and mandrake linux 8.2 (i use this one daily). this is a few months to a year old now and i have found that newer distros have noticably more hardware support than distros of even a month or two before.
I recommend mandrake and red hat. Now both of those are currently on their *.0 (maybe even beta) releases, and i would recommend either getting red hat 7.3 or mandrake 8.2 (or is it 8.3?) which are the NEXT most recent versions, because these versions will not be so 'cutting edge' and so therefore will be more stable. At least this is the impression i have got anyway.
Other top picks that i have not tried are SuSE which is more of a commercial linux than most and so it will have a more no-nonsense approach to supporting people's PCs, and Lycoris, about which i have heard next to nothing except for mutterrings recently that it might be a good first time linux to try out.
Now your Dell of two years i don't know. If it's a desktop and if you have not installed any really weird cards and so on then you should be 100% OK. Likewise, a dual boot should work fine so long as you get your partitioning alright. I am the eternal tinkerer and i have had a few partitioning disasters,so watch your step. While it is easy to partition correctly, it is also easy to accidentally erase a lot of stuff! :D
One thing to do is find out what modem you have, find out what video card you have and find out what sound card you have. Then nosey around on the internet looking for references to those exact model numbers and see what other people say about them in linux.
OK. Hope i didn't sound too harsh up there but people who say "windows is good enough for me, think i'll just live with it" really piss me off. These (to my mind) are the same people that don't bother to vote, who take up space needlessly on the train and who say things like "nah mate, sorry but it's more than my job's worth"...
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quote:
Originally posted by Calum:
OK. Hope i didn't sound too harsh up there but people who say "windows is good enough for me, think i'll just live with it" really piss me off. These (to my mind) are the same people that don't bother to vote, who take up space needlessly on the train and who say things like "nah mate, sorry but it's more than my job's worth"...
Furthermore, it makes no sense NOT to have some version of linux on your computer. I mean, it's Free! :D
[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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Hey Spin,
I'm not trying to change your mind. I am just stating facts. I use a dual boot system. Linux Redhat 7.2 (hopefully upgrading to 8.0 soon) and Win98. I use Redhat for almost everything now except playing games like Diablo II. When I started out I used Windows as much as Linux and it took time for me to reach a point where I could easily use linux for whatever I wanted.
Today my wife and I were shopping at Walmart and I stopped in the electronics section just to check out the price of Windows XP. The Home version was $100.00 USD and the Pro version was $200.00 USD. Both of these were upgrade versions. So for all that cash you only get an upgrade version or if you have a fast connection you can download linux for free. If your like me and don't have a fast connection you can go HERE (http://www.linuxcentral.com) and order the CD for just a few bucks.
I will be completely honest with you. At first linux will be a pain to use (I don't know about Redhat 8.0 because I dont have it yet) but in time it will become almost second nature to you. Meantime Linux and Windows can live side by side on the same hard drive. If you want to use Windows use it if you want to use Linux use it.
They both live on my system even now. I like playing some games and I use Windows to play them. By the same token if I connect to the web I will be using Linux.
Do what works for you and dont worry about what anyone else thinks. (http://smile.gif)
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With regards to Linux and Dell, I offer you this link.
http://delltalk.us.dell.com/messages/overview.asp?page=1&name=linux (http://delltalk.us.dell.com/messages/overview.asp?page=1&name=linux)
Hope this may answer your compatability questions.
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Ok,
Well, thanks for the suggestions guys.
I have now started moving all of my web-based email to yahoo (from hotmail).
I am also looking for a good and easy Linux distro to put on my dell desktop xps t600r
That link to the dell forum answered a lot of questions about compatibility issues.
Now, my only chore is to find a Linux distro. I don't want to pay for one now but if it is what I am looking for, then I'd gladly pay for it.
Thanks again
Spin
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All I can say is Dell's distro of choice is RedHat and that is what they ship on their servers. That doesn't mean that every single piece of equipment they sell works with RedHat but they do have a deals with RedHat.
I used to work at a large corp that used Dell exclusively and I have always had good luck with RedHat on all of their desktop line and most of their Laptops. There has been only one case recently of a piece of hardware that didn't work right off and that was in a brand new model of a Dell laptop with a built in winmodem. I didn't even try to make it work, just stuck a xircom PCMCIA modem in the PCMCIA slot and away I went.
But I suspect you won't have much trouble with any of the Distros. Dell is fairly Linux friendly period. I've run several distros on several models of Dell desktops over the years and rarely have an issue with any of their hardware.
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Void Main,
Thanks for the info...I'll probably buy Redhat if my trial Linux works out. I am probably going to use MaxOS first and see how it all jives...
Later
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Oops, thought it sayd MacOS...
my bad :D
[ October 06, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]
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Hmmm, never heard of MaxOS. What is that?
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quote:
Originally posted by Refalm:
Better free webmail?
MyRealBox (http://www.myrealbox.com/) (no pop3, no advertisement, downtime, 10 MB)
Yahoo! Mail (http://mail.yahoo.com/) (pay for pop3, few banners, 6 MB)
Swirvemail (http://www.swirvemail.com/) (no pop3, few banners and pop-ups)
O (http://www.o2.co.uk/)
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quote:
Originally posted by void main:
Hmmm, never heard of MaxOS. What is that?
try google (http://www.google.ca/linux?num=50&restrict=linux&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&q=MaxOS&btnG=Google+Search)
or just read the article at LWN (http://old.lwn.net/2000/features/maxos.phtml)
www.maxos.com (http://www.maxos.com) is gone so maybe they went under?
[ October 06, 2002: Message edited by: The Master of Reality / Bob ]
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quote:
Originally posted by The Master of Reality / Bob:
try google (http://www.google.ca/linux?num=50&restrict=linux&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&q=MaxOS&btnG=Google+Search)
or just read the article at LWN (http://old.lwn.net/2000/features/maxos.phtml)
[ October 06, 2002: Message edited by: The Master of Reality / Bob ]
Ahhh, a taste of my own medicine. (http://smile.gif)
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Ok now what
I tried that stupid MaxOS and nothing...so I am back to square one. I can't seem to download Redhat so I'll try yet another Linux distro. Now, quick question, should I create a Linux partition (using Partition Magic 7) or should I just run the install program of the Linux distro??
Well, the hunt continues...
Spin
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you can partition your harddrive in the install. and it will be just easy as partition magic. Try Mandrake, but look at different mirrors because soem download site are filled up
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quote:
Originally posted by spinningheel4242:
Ok, so what I have read intrigues me but I have to say, there is no prevailing reason to switch to Linux or Mac. Basically, there is no KILLER APP that makes it worthwhile. Now, don't get me wrong, I hate MS but I am not also technically inclined to learn a new OS like Linux (I can't be bothered with command lines etc). And the Macs that I have used just don't compare (performance wise) to PC's. I really wish they did cuz I would like a viable alternative to MS but there just isn't any. A lot of you say Linux or Mac are WAY better and easier than MS...well, on many regards you are correct. However, myself and my wife like EASY and SIMPLE and MS provides that. That is why Linux will NEVER become a decktop contender....it takes too much time and effort to learn.
And with all of the html responses....yes, there are good code editors out there for linux but I use dreamweaver or similar layout html editors. So, as of late, there are no Linux/Mac distro's that can match these products.
But, basically, one of the biggests snags is with games........yes, I love gaming and guess what.....only a few GOOD games are available for Linux/Mac. Also, I don't want to wait 6+ months for games to come out for Mac. Basically, the amount I have used Mac is very disheartening. I think they have a lot of potential but until they port with PC components....they will never win many converts.
I will continue my search for viable alternatives to MS (I am now using incredimail for email etc!) but I will have to stick to the other gambit of MS crap and crap until I can convert to a truly user-friendly system....
Spin
All I can say is that Linux has changed alot in recent years. Its probably not *nearly* as hard as you think. It comes with a couple of really nice GUIs; you can use Linux without being bothered by command lines etc. I will admit, there have been some things that are less convenient on Linux than on Win, and even some Applications that would require you to use a command line to install them. But, that is because of the applications, and not because of the OS, furthermore, the documentation for such apps is in all but the most extreme of cases excellent. Linux has an app called wine, which is used for running windows applications, including games in Linux. So all in all, there are probably only a few games that are completely unplayable in Linux. The real hard thing about Linux is just getting used to it. There are some odds and ends that may seem very difficult or inconvenient at first, but once you get the hang of how they work, are easy. And there is alot of support, both on there forums, and all over the net. I definitely would not say that it will never become a desktop contender. Its getting closer and closer to that every day. I say give it a try, at least on a dual boot. If your going to try you have to stick with it in the beginning, some things will probably come up. Soon you'll find that its not that difficult.
V
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Oh My God!!!!!!
I tried installing desktop/LX on my machine....going for the dual boot option. And, I don't know how, but I managed to blank my entire hard drive!! Sure, Linux installed and looked beautiful (for the 20 minutes that I had it on there) But I lost everything else...it is truly a dark day...
Yes yes, I should have made backups etc. I just didn't expect this to happen.
Now, I am trying to partition my harddrive using partition magic 7 but am having huge problems with that. I want to keep about 36 gigs of my harddrive windoze me and the other 2 gigs linux. Obviously I want to dual boot with windoze being the first or primary option. If anyone has suggestions I would appreciate it...
Spin
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As far as the partition magic part you just want to "shrink" your existing Windows partition so you have enough "free space" (unpartitioned) to install Linux. I would recommend giving Linux more than 2GB. Probably around 3GB at the minimum and if your Windows partition is FAT32 then you can use that space for overflow if necessary. Otherwise I might even suggest around 4GB minimum for Linux if you plan on installing much more and doing some serious work.
Now the specific instructions beyond just creating the free space would depend on the distro you are using. I haven't used SuSe yet (downloading it now) but I could give you pointers for RedHat. There are plenty of SuSe users on here though so they should be able to help. And the installation DOCS usually cover all of this quite clearly for all the major distros (if you don't understand what you are reading on the install screen).
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Ok,
I want to install Lycoris's Desktop/LX
The problem with Partition Magic is that when I go to create a Linux partition, my harddrive gets all scrambled.
I have 38 gigs with windoze installed on fat32.
I want to create a 4 gig partition for Linux
after is tell Partition Magic 7 to create a logical parition, of 4 gigs, in Linux ext format, my harddrive looks like this...
7.5 gigs fat32, 4 gigs linux, 25.5 gigs unallocated
Now, I have no idea what that would do to my harddrive and can I also reassign the unallocated space to my fat32??
Thanks
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quote:
spinningheel4242: I want to install Lycoris's Desktop/LX
Good choice... this distro is designed for Linux newbies and people who aren't good with computers...
quote:
spinningheel4242: Now, I have no idea what that would do to my harddrive
It doesn't do any damage to your hard disk...
quote:
spinningheel4242: can I also reassign the unallocated space to my fat32??
Yes...
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Alrighty then
Ok, I did install Lycoris Desktop/LX on 4 gigs and Windoze Me on 34 gigs
But, the problem I am now having is that the default OS is linux and I want it to be Microsoft ME
Can anyone help me reassign the partition info so windoze me is primary and linux is secondary......
Spin
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Is your boot loader LILO or GRUB? I can help you with either.
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ya, my boot loader is grub...
right now, it only gives me 5 seconds to choose an operating system (Linux being the default)
I would like to change it to windoze as default and linux as secondary option...thanks
spin
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Ok, your distro probably has a graphical config for this but I'll give you directions that will work on any GRUB based system. You should have a "/boot/grub" directory. In that directory you should find a "menu.lst" or a "grub.conf" file.
Edit that file (either one, and you probably will have to do this as root). You should see a line that says "default=0". If so change it to "default=1". If the line doesn't exist just insert it in the top of the file.
When you reboot it should default to the second menu item rather than the first. You can also change the time it takes to start the default with the "timeout=" setting. Example "timeout=30" would wait 30 seconds before booting the defulat OS.
Another option is to move the entire Windows section of the grub.conf file right above the Linux section. That will reverse the order shown on your boot menu (don't change the "default=0" if you choose to do it this way). An OS section consists of more than one line and beginning with a line that starts with the word "title" and ends when it reaches the beginning of another OS section or the end of the file. If you feel unsure about this just change the "default=1" as I mentioned first.
Hope this helps.
[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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Success,
Ok, I was finally able to edit the grub boot (had to log in as root) and now windows is primary boot with linux as second with a 15 second delay....thanks a bunch...
I am really impressed with linux...but there are a few issues:
1. I can't seem to access my mp3's, that reside on my fat32 drive --> I want to listen to them in linux but not copy them over to the partition....is there a way of doing this?
2. My printer doesn't seem to work --> I choose the correct printer during install but it doesn't seem to recognize the printer (hp 832c usb)
3. I can't seem to install any other packages or programs from the internet --> I can get to the download screen, and it looks like it is opening but then, nothing...is there a way to install Linux that is different from windows?
Thanks
Spin
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quote:
Originally posted by spinningheel4242:
Success,
1. I can't seem to access my mp3's, that reside on my fat32 drive --> I want to listen to them in linux but not copy them over to the partition....is there a way of doing this?
Most certainly you can, but you have to mount your Windows partition. This is a frequently asked question on these forums though so I would suggest you click on the search link near the top of this page, select "Linux/UNIX" in the pulldown menu and type in "fstab" in the keyword box and press the search button. You should find several examples/instructions on how to mount your Windows C: drive.
quote:
2. My printer doesn't seem to work --> I choose the correct printer during install but it doesn't seem to recognize the printer (hp 832c usb)
I am afraid I can't help you with this one as I have never used the distribution that you are using. Underneath they are all pretty much the same and I could give you those instructions but I would search google for information specific to your distro. Or wait for help from someone else here that has used it.
quote:
3. I can't seem to install any other packages or programs from the internet --> I can get to the download screen, and it looks like it is opening but then, nothing...is there a way to install Linux that is different from windows?
Ditto for answer #2. Dang, only 1 for 3 on this one.
Also, I would suggest if you have any more questions on this you start a new thread in the Linux/UNIX forum. It's really no longer Windows related. (http://smile.gif)
[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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Okay, been there and done that. Every linux distro that I have used has been less than stellar (MaxOS, Desktop Lx, and Redhat). I have to again reclaim my position on this subject....
Non-MS applications do not have a chance of ever converting the masses to their side. No OS, No Office Suite, and No Game Portal will match MS in the next few years.
Yes, Linux is powerful etc etc....bla bla bla
But, for the everyday user, it doesn't inspire the confidence or functionality that MS does. Sorry for the spanking but man, I have reformatted too many times in the last month to be a promoter of Linux or non-MS apps.
I have used StarOffice, Corel, OpenOffice, EasyOffice, ClarisWorks, and others.....non come close to the functionality of MS. Yes, they have the basic and common functionality and useage....but there is where the similarities end. It is infinitely more difficult to learn and to use a non-MS word processing app because they just don't hold a candle to MS......yet.
Please, don't get me wrong, I think this fuckmicrosoft movement is great...or I wouldn't be here....it is just that I haven't seen the light yet.
I want to use Linux but so many sites/applications/games/ don't support it
I want to use non-MS word processors but they don't have the full functionality that MS does
I want to use non-MS but the reality is, the alternatives are just not ready yet....
Spin
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I do feel the need to ask how long you actually worked with all of the alternatives? Things will be difficult at first simply because you're used to something else.
I firmly hold the belief that non-MS products are only difficult to use because people have been using MS products for so long that it would take much longer than a few days, or even a few weeks, to learn something equally (in most cases, more so) functional.
You say they don't hold a candle to MS, I respectfully disagree. I used Word Perfect and Netscape for as long as I've owned my own computer, and they are highly reliable products with many advanced features. Although I have recently switched to Opera as my internet browser, and I find it to be better than Netscape. The alternatives are out there, and they ARE high quality. In most cases they are higher quality than anything Microsoft has put out.
I use Mandrake 8.2 myself, and for the first week I had nothing but problems with it, but 95% of the time, it was because I did something stupid. Now I find myself booting into Windows 98 less and less (in fact the last time I booted into it was almost three weeks ago. I do all of my work and play in Linux now). And I'm hardly a Windows moron, either. I knew how to tweak things to my liking, mostly because I had to fix things to make them work. Same with Linux, I may have to tweak a few things, but 95% of the time, it works the way it's supposed to.
Your statement that the alternatives are not ready for mainstream is misleading at best. Most computer users have never tried alternatives, because they're not aware of what's out there. There's lots of high quality software for Linux out there, and it's not hard to find, either.
And even if there is some software in Windows you really want to use, there are ways to run Windows software in Linux. (I've actually spent the $25 for Codeweavers Crossover Plugin)
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quote:
Originally posted by spinningheel4242:
Please, don't get me wrong, I think this fuckmicrosoft movement is great...or I wouldn't be here....it is just that I haven't seen the light yet.
I want to use Linux but so many sites/applications/games/ don't support it
I want to use non-MS word processors but they don't have the full functionality that MS does
I want to use non-MS but the reality is, the alternatives are just not ready yet....
Spin
There are a lot of people like you. If you and people like you were all to fire off a message to each of the vendors who write the software that you like (web masters, application companies, game companies, etc) with the above quote maybe we'll see some progress in some applications moving over to the good side. Just curious, is RedHat 8.0 one of the distributions that you tried?
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Ok, a reply
I did install Redhat 8 and nothing but problems. It wouldn't recognize my soundcard so, no sound. It also messed up my partitioning and poof went my data on the other partitions.
I was using Desktop LX for a while (a few weeks) and it seemed pretty good. I did have sound with this distro but it couldn't play movie clips (avi, mpg).
As a long time windows users, I am use to things being like windows. But, I also don't mind experimenting with other apps, os's to see if they are better/easier.
But my main complaint, again, is that the linux distro's that I have tried don't totally encompass the everyday functionality that I used to. I want to be able to listen to music (mp3, cd's, ogg etc), watch movies (dvd's, mpg, avi's etc), write emails, surf the net, burn cd's, fix my webpage using a wysiwyg editor, video edit, and play games.
Now, the linux distro's that I have tried (desktop Lx being the most successful) I have been able to surf the net, write emails, and listen to music like normal...but that is where the similarities stop. I couldn't get the CD burner to work, couldn't find a good/comparable html editor like dreamweaver, couldn't watch videos/movies, couldn't play my games, couldn't video edit etc etc.
I would love to have a linux distro that could do the everyday stuff and then switch back to windows if I need to play a game. Maybe I haven't found a good linux distro yet, I just don't know.
Also, everytime I try to set up my partitions for a linux distro, something goes wrong. I use partition magic 8, create a new partition for an OS but something goes wrong. Also, when I delete the linux distro, it doesn't get rid of grub...that bugs me cuz I have to reformat and reinstall (8 times last month!!)
On to a wordprocessor. I have used them all and I did like Corel 7 and 8. But the newer versions constantly crash etc (on my computer). MS Word just doesn't crash like Corel; therefore, my work isn't lost. I also write research papers using footnotes/endnotes; create tables for data; create worksheets for teaching; and use graphics in my writings. I have tried OpenOffice but it just doesn't include all of the tools I commonly use or, if it does, they don't work the same and there is formating errors etc.
I do use Mozilla as my default browser though. It is fast, powerful, and full of features. I do use MS for certain sites (CIBC and the Zone) because they don't work with Mozilla...yet. Some features with Mozilla that I would like to see though, that are on MS, are autocomplete. For example, if you search in google for a variety of things, you can click the search box and a list of your typed searches appears...I like having that!!
Ok, I guess that is enough of a rant for now. I hope you guys comment on this and offer some solid and proven remarks/suggestions.
Spin
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quote:
Originally posted by spinningheel4242:
I did install Redhat 8 and nothing but problems. It wouldn't recognize my soundcard so, no sound. It also messed up my partitioning and poof went my data on the other partitions.
I have never had these problems, but then I buy my hardware with Linux in mind. I have never had partitioning problems. I'm not sure what you could have done to lose your other partitions unless you didn't read the directions.
quote:
I was using Desktop LX for a while (a few weeks) and it seemed pretty good. I did have sound with this distro but it couldn't play movie clips (avi, mpg).
As far as multimedia goes, I have *far* better results in Linux than I have with any Windows apps. The multimedia apps may not come with your distro but they are easily downloaded/installed.
quote:
As a long time windows users, I am use to things being like windows. But, I also don't mind experimenting with other apps, os's to see if they are better/easier.
That's the key. How many hours of time do you have in Windows (all versions combined) vs how many hours have you put into learning Linux? They are not the same thing. They work different. Once you learn Linux I think you will see how much more power you have at your fingertips. It's not something that you can see immediately without putting forth a certain amount of effort.
quote:
But my main complaint, again, is that the linux distro's that I have tried don't totally encompass the everyday functionality that I used to. I want to be able to listen to music (mp3, cd's, ogg etc), watch movies (dvd's, mpg, avi's etc), write emails, surf the net, burn cd's, fix my webpage using a wysiwyg editor, video edit, and play games.
You can do *all* of those things on Linux very easily (and I do). I used "kino" for capturing and editing video over firewire from my Sony digital video camera. I had DV Studio for Windows but I actually like kino a lot better. And I can create any video format I want with the wide variety of video/audio conversion utilities that exist. Maybe you should check out the "vcd" thread in the "Ask a Hacker/Coder" forum.
quote:
Now, the linux distro's that I have tried (desktop Lx being the most successful) I have been able to surf the net, write emails, and listen to music like normal...but that is where the similarities stop. I couldn't get the CD burner to work, couldn't find a good/comparable html editor like dreamweaver, couldn't watch videos/movies, couldn't play my games, couldn't video edit etc etc.
Like I said, I have no problem doing *any* of this. CD burning in Linux works *much* better than it does in Windows. In fact I even have a P100 machine that I can burn CDs on and use it for other work. In Windows a machine of that class would just lock up if you tried to burn a CD and do something else. I use Xine or Ogle for DVD/VCDs. MPlayer for all video formats (it can play everything Windows can play and lots more because it can even use Windows codecs). I personally hate WYSIWYG editors but there is a good one for Linux much like FrontPage called Quantu Plus. There are countless apps like xmms for playing audio (mp3, ogg, etc). xmms is a skinable player very very much like winamp.
quote:
I would love to have a linux distro that could do the everyday stuff and then switch back to windows if I need to play a game. Maybe I haven't found a good linux distro yet, I just don't know.
I think RedHat 8.0 is very good for a person such as yourself. And there are some games that work great in Linux. The idSoftware games (Quake, RCW, Doom, etc) have native Linux ports. Unreal Tournament has a Linux port. Some other Windows games work well under Wine/WineX. But I will not argue with you on this one, games selection is not good for Linux (good thing I don't care about games). It would be nice if people like you send a nice email to your favorite game vendors and ask them to someday think about porting to Linux so you have a choice. The more requests they get the more likely they will be to port.
quote:
Also, everytime I try to set up my partitions for a linux distro, something goes wrong. I use partition magic 8, create a new partition for an OS but something goes wrong. Also, when I delete the linux distro, it doesn't get rid of grub...that bugs me cuz I have to reformat and reinstall (8 times last month!!)
You don't have to reformat to get rid of GRUB or LILO from your MBR. The easiest way for you is to have a DOS or Windows bootable floppy handy with a copy of FDISK.EXE on it. Boot it and type "FDISK /MBR". Problem solved.
quote:
On to a wordprocessor. I have used them all and I did like Corel 7 and 8. But the newer versions constantly crash etc (on my computer). MS Word just doesn't crash like Corel; therefore, my work isn't lost. I also write research papers using footnotes/endnotes; create tables for data; create worksheets for teaching; and use graphics in my writings. I have tried OpenOffice but it just doesn't include all of the tools I commonly use or, if it does, they don't work the same and there is formating errors etc.
I have never had a problem with OpenOffice, nor has my duaghter who is a freshman in high school and uses it for all of her school work. By formatting errors, I will assume that you mean formatting errors when opening a Microsoft formatted document. If so, try opening a Native OpenOffice file in Microsoft Office and see how good it looks (you won't be able to even open it).
quote:
I do use Mozilla as my default browser though. It is fast, powerful, and full of features. I do use MS for certain sites (CIBC and the Zone) because they don't work with Mozilla...yet. Some features with Mozilla that I would like to see though, that are on MS, are autocomplete. For example, if you search in google for a variety of things, you can click the search box and a list of your typed searches appears...I like having that!!
Send your feature requests to the Mozilla programming team, they will add them for you.
quote:
Ok, I guess that is enough of a rant for now. I hope you guys comment on this and offer some solid and proven remarks/suggestions.
I don't recall *ever* hearing you ask for help here on any of the issues you brought up in this message. If you would like to try again, but ask for help this time, most of us will try very hard to solve any of your issues. But if you have your mind already made up then there's not much point now is there?
[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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spinningheel, you have a closed mind, i think, from your comments, you need to embrace the concept of open source software. Here, if you ask for help, you will get it (in general, not specific to this site).
Also, linux IS totally different to windows. don't be fooled by interfaces that try to trick you into thinking it is similar to windows. I was as frustrated as you are with my buggy laptop with red hat 7.0 on it to start with, but i have persevered, as i had to do with windows the year before, and now that i know how to use both OSs, i prefer linux by a long shot for far too many reasons to list.
Invest and you will get returns, ask and you shall be answered.
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Ok, I need to respond to this one. I really don't think I am close minded. If I was, I would never know this site existed...
Also, I am not asking direct questions but I am...I am explaining problems I am finding with non-MS apps and hoping that someone will offer suggestions and/or alternatives.
Personally, I won't be giving up windoze because of my games and other related junk. But, I do want to find a suitable, everyday replacement for web browsing, word processing, etc...
As being a newbie, I need help with what linux distro would be the best and easiest to set up. Also, I will probably get help on how to fix any problems that crop up with a new linux install.
I have resigned to the fact that my hundreds of older MS Word documents need MS Word to properly display them. But, all of my new documents are going to be OpenOffice or some alternative....the only problem is trying to convert the wife :(
I would also appreciate anyone that can direct me to a thread/site that can easily and susinctly partition my harddrive, using partition magic 8.
Also, some previous posts commented that linux had better video editing and cd burning software than windoze....please tell me what distro you were running because Lycoris's Desktop/LX wasn't a success.
So, thanks for all of the input and hope to hear back soon.
Spin
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quote:
Originally posted by spinningheel4242:
Also, I am not asking direct questions but I am...I am explaining problems I am finding with non-MS apps and hoping that someone will offer suggestions and/or alternatives.
Well then you should have written your sentences in the form of a question instead of what appeared to be a slam.
quote:
Personally, I won't be giving up windoze because of my games and other related junk. But, I do want to find a suitable, everyday replacement for web browsing, word processing, etc...
Perfectly natural transgression.
quote:
As being a newbie, I need help with what linux distro would be the best and easiest to set up. Also, I will probably get help on how to fix any problems that crop up with a new linux install.
If you want help from me, I would suggest RedHat 8.0 as this is my current distro of choice (I've been running Linux for 10 years).
quote:
I have resigned to the fact that my hundreds of older MS Word documents need MS Word to properly display them. But, all of my new documents are going to be OpenOffice or some alternative....the only problem is trying to convert the wife :(
That was easy for me. Stuck the Linux CD in and installed over Windows. Until she can figure out how to install Windows she'll be using Linux. Haven't heard any complaints out of my wife *or* my kids. Actually I've heard a lot of complaints, but they weren't computer related. (http://smile.gif)
quote:
I would also appreciate anyone that can direct me to a thread/site that can easily and susinctly partition my harddrive, using partition magic 8.
There are several threads on this, you can do a search at the top of this page, but basically the only thing you'll want to use Partition Magic for is to shrink the size of your Windows partition to make enough free space on the disk to install Linux. Use Linux to create the Linux partitions. Normally you'll want to do a "custom" install so that it will not wipe out your entire drive and install Linux, but give you a chance to create partitions in the free space that you have created with Partition Magic. I would suggest at least 5GB of free space for Linux. In fact I would strongly suggest more than that if you can afford it. 10GB or more would be much better as you want room to work, especially if you are going to be doing some multimedia work/editing.
When you boot and do a "custom" install if you are using RedHat you will be prompted to use either "Disk Druid" or "fdisk" to create your Linux partitions, select "Disk Druid" and follow these instructions (http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-8.0-Manual/install-guide/s1-diskpartitioning.html).
I would suggest making a 256MB or 512MB "swap" (swap partition type) partition depending on how much RAM you have, a 50MB "/boot" partition (ext3 partition type), and use the rest of the free space to make a "/" (root) partition (ext3 partition type). I also usually give my Windows partition a mount point at this time so I don't have to add it after the installation. Make sure in the boot loader configuration you have both RedHat and Windows selected so you can dual boot.
Here's the full installation guide (http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-8.0-Manual/install-guide/)
quote:
Also, some previous posts commented that linux had better video editing and cd burning software than windoze....please tell me what distro you were running because Lycoris's Desktop/LX wasn't a success.
If you install RedHat 8.0 I will give you instructions on how to install some really good multimedia software automatically off the net (assuming all your network hardware is compatible and you have network access).
Good luck!
[ November 02, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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The telephone never had any "killer-app" but it still made it...its kiiller-app is and was communication.
The killer-app is open source, you just can't see it yet. Just like the early telephone users.
Oh and M$ OS's and products are crap. If they were any good I wouldn't have a job "supporting" them.
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Ok, my questions were not in the form of a question for a point....I was addressing another post and I am also stating a point. Thus, I negate the need to frame my statement in a question. Second, I have installed Redhat 8 once and nothing but problems. I have a dell xps600 with 840mb ram, pioneer dvd, lg 40x re-writer, 32 gig hd, turtle beach montego soundcard, diamond viper 32mb video card. As per my experience, redhat didn't work correctly nor could I figure out how to correct the problem (could play sound...couldn't detect sound card).
I guess I could put the linux partition at the beginning of the harddrive and then the windoze...
I would like to use boot magic to boot between OS's though...is that possible or should I use grub or whatever?
Spin
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There are several Turtle Beach audio cards on RedHat's compatibility list, Montego not being one of them. In fact I found an older document that states specifically that the Montego is unsupported. I find no mention of that card in the kernel source (used on all distros) but there may have been an added module or maybe it can use one of the other drivers. Maybe someone else on this board has experience with that card, I don't.
I would check every piece of equipment that you have with RedHat's compatibility list (they have a nice database to search). Figure out where your potential issues are, sound being one of them. Use google to find out as much as you can regarding non-compatible equipment to see if there are any workarounds. The fact that you said it worked in another distro is promising as that would indicate there is a sound driver for it and it could be added to RedHat.
I would not move Windows. Leave it at the beginning of the drive and just shrink it with Parition magic (move the end of the partition to the left until you have enough free space at the end of the drive). Install Linux at the end.
You can use other boot loaders to boot Linux but you will at least have to install Lilo on the partition boot sector instead of the master boot record (MBR). But I really don't know why you would want to do that. Both GRUB and LILO work great.
[ November 02, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]
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Excellent,
Thanks for the input...now that is what I was looking for.
Also, is there another Linux distro that I should try or is Redhat going to be the best??
Cheers
Spin
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quote:
Originally posted by spinningheel4242:
Also, is there another Linux distro that I should try or is Redhat going to be the best??
I haven't tried all 500+ distributions so there is no way I can answer that. All I can say is that of the ones that I have tried I would consider RedHat to generally be the best for most people at this point and time (and has been for me for the last 6 or 7 years). SuSe is right up there and Mandrake is as well. If you are not a new user and don't care about a flashy installer, Debian is probably the best, especially true if Free/Open is important to you.
And like I said, since RedHat is the one I am most familiar with, I can provide better quality help on that distro. There are plenty of people who are more familiar with the other distros who can also provide good help with those. Much of it is common across all distros but there are distro specific issues.
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You will be missing the quantity of games available to the windows OS, but if you are determined enough, you might be able to find a lot of the old Loki titles. So far Ive found Quake 3, Heretic 2, and Railroad Tycoon 2. I just wish I could find the Loki Sim City 3000. I would kill for that. Most distros include the best linux based game anyway. BZFLAG!!!!!! Its a first person tank shooter. They even have a windows port(lol, usually its the other way around). Oh and I recently found out they have a Mac Os X version now too.
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Ok, I am trying out RH8 now and like it...other than my sound doesn't work.
But my main complaint about Linux is that it is too splintered to offer any real help or common goal. As void said, there are 500+ distro's etc...
That is the main problem of linux and it will never be solved. Pro-linux individuals praise linux and promote it but wait a minute...which one are they talking about. Yes, Linux is the basis of all distro's etc...but not having one or two main distro's will forever kill linux becoming a major desktop replacement.
It is because of that fact that major companies haven't wasted their money developing apps to run on linux...there are just too many variations...ultimately the limiting factor of open source.
It would be best if all of the open source info came into a melting pot and out popped a universal linux distro...now wouldn't that be great??
Spin
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quote:
But my main complaint about Linux is that it is too splintered to offer any real help or common goal. As void said, there are 500+ distro's etc...
That is the main problem of linux and it will never be solved. Pro-linux individuals praise linux and promote it but wait a minute...which one are they talking about. Yes, Linux is the basis of all distro's etc...but not having one or two main distro's will forever kill linux becoming a major desktop replacement.
There are two or three major distros that companies write for, which are Red Hat, Mandrake, and SuSe. If any vendor writes anything for Linux, they usually concentrate on these three, since they're the most user-friendly and popular (since Xandros, Lycoris, and Lindows haven't been around long enough to gain a huge amount of following) They almost always include a tar.gz file for advanced users, and pretty much if anyone uses a distro other than the above three, they're advanced users anyway. No, they don't have to support all 500+ distributions. They can just concentrate on the two or three most popular ones. Linux can still become a major desktop replacement even with more than 500 distributions. People will select a distribution based on their needs, but be guaranteed that their software will work on it since it is a Linux platform.
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If you are using... which you probably aren't... convert to the new JBrowse... this can be DLed at www.joshbart.com/jbrowse (http://www.joshbart.com/jbrowse) . This is compatible with ALL forms of HTML and XML and Java/Javascript. It is definetely the best browser I have ever used. As for the BSD/UNIX/Linux people, then there are compatibility problems... but JBrowse will hopefully be out for Linux and Mac January. I am not a part of the JBrowse team (and I never would be, I am a dedicated FreeBSD user), but a friend of mine personally knows this "Josh Bart" (he's Canadian or something) and I constantly hear of devolopment for JBrowse
Get JBrowse (http://www.joshbart.com/jbrowse)
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Okay, I have finally come to a point where I don't care about the evil empire etc.
I am giving up Linux for the time being. Not only did I screw my last partition disk...having to reformat and do some serious disk repairs...I also lost a tonne of data. All in the name of promoting Linux. Well, no more. My quest is over and that is that. I am tired of having to repair the problems related to Linux installs etc.
For now, I will stay with Windoze 98...at least until there is a viable alternative...
Oh ya, everyone responding to my original question offered good ideas/suggestions but in reality...nothing holds a candle to MS. I am sorry, I tried but enough is enough. All I could us Linux for in web surfing/limited email/limited wordprocessing.
If I need web browsing in MS, I use Mozilla. I use Outlook Express because it is integrated with hotmail. I use MS Word/Wordperfect because other suites can't compare.
In a word, Linux is not ready for the average consumer...I regard myself as being more educated that the average consumer with pretty good computer skills and I still couldn't get Linux to either work right or do what I wanted...
So, in the end, and in parting...my quest has come to a temporary end...
I hope others carry the torch and continue the fight...and if a "perfect" linux distro comes to being...I will be first in line to take it up...
Later
Spin
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you regard yourself wrongly.
well done on trying linux, but your 'nothing holds a candle to MS' attitude is exactly why cattle like the 'average user' will always use the shittiest stuff.
good luck the next time your viable alternative crashes on you, and erases your data.
The thing is that when an operating system is completely configurable, there's noone to blame for its failure except yourself, ultimately.
Anyway, you go back to your game of minesweeper and stop wasting my time, hmm?
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Again, you fail to ask for help on anything, and just assumed that there was no way your problems could be fixed.
But saying that "Linux isn't ready for the average user" and "Nothing holds a candle to MS" just because YOU couldn't figure something out or try something that might work a little different, is rather short-sighted, to say the least.
I've only been using Linux for two months, haven't had any of the problems you have had. This isn't to say everything was perfect, but I stuck with it and in two weeks, I was using Linux 85% of the time. Now it's about 95% of the time I use it, and the only thing I still use Windows for right now is for my music notation program.
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The problem with you spinningwheel, is your negative stance towards Linux. You were preoccupied from the beginning about how difficult Linux is to install, configure etc, that you didn't really USE it. You just scraped the surface and never went deeper.
Anyway, it's your choice, so good luck with Windoze :D
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Don't give up yet. If partitioning is the problem, then its not Linux's fault. You did backup your data didn't you. Anytime you change the HD's partitioning, there's a chance its going to wipe the drive. Thats why people should always backup their data. Windows can do just the same. What was it exactly you were trying to do in Linux and couldn't? Don't give up too quickly now. Linux is not perfect, but if you can get it running, it is a very stable and capable OS, much better than windows 98. You're not going to like 98, it crashes alot, etc.
V
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Doctor V: Linux Pusher:
Linux is not perfect,
Yes it is. (http://smile.gif)
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The concept behind linux is perfect.
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Also, did you defrag your hard drive before trying to resize the partition?
If you want to try again, you can try Knoppix, which you can just run from the CD, and not have to to anything to the hard drive. Don't know the web site off hand.
Or, you can download a copy of WinLinux, which installs on an existing Windows installation, so you don't have to resize your Windows partition.
http://www.winlinux.net (http://www.winlinux.net)
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quote:
Originally posted by Crunchy(Cracked)Butter:
Who doesn't? :rolleyes:
Bill Gates.
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quote:
Originally posted by psyjax:
Or you could get a Mac and run OSX Jaguare on it.
It will kick the shit out of anything MS can do, and guarantees compatability with M$ file format's etc. It is as powerfull as Linux/*NIX, but easier to use.
Best OS around right now IMHO.
No its not, because its not Linux.
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Yes it is, because it is osX Jaguar.
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ok, i have to say, thanks to the "helpful" ones out there. There are those of you that just like to have a hate-on for non-linux users and then there are those who are really trying to help. Thanks to the second bunch.
Ok, I am going to take your suggestions into mind...again. I will defrag/back-up/and partition my harddrive.....again.
This time, I am not going to install Redhat/Mandrake/or Lycoris......rather I am going to try Peanut and Debian...
I still have my doubts about linux (rather based on past experiences however traumatic they were)
Anyways, I will commit to this one and see if it is all within all
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I don't have all non-Linux users. I get along with Mac people just fine (http://tongue.gif)