Stop Microsoft
Operating Systems => macOS => Topic started by: hm_murdock on 21 January 2003, 22:14
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Well, I've had a Quadra 840av for ages now. Yes, the cool old one with the 40MHz 68040. The one that has the 66MHz DSP in it for video and audio processing.
The one that was seven grand new.
Yeah. I've got one.
But anyway, I was at a friend's house and... for some reason, I had it and my Power Mac 7200 (beloved machine) out in the car. My friend's dad is a moron and just got a POS new Hell, I mean Dell.
What a turd. The plastic case is so fucking cheap that I cracked it by leaning too hard against it.
So, knowing that I use Macs, he looks at me and says "Hey, bet you can't do THIS on any of your Apples!"
He then plays a short video clip.
I look over at my friend, we go outside, bring in the 840av along with a mouse and my trusty VGA adaptor. We plug his dad's shitty Dell screen into the Quadra (I'm still apologizing to my baby) and I plug a VCR into the Quadra via the RCA video in, and the sound via an RCA to 1/8" adaptor to the mic in port of the Mac.
I fire it up, plug the cable TV into the tape player and we watch tv shows on the Quadra.
Then I look at the imbecile dad and say "No, you're wrong! But the real question is... why would I waste my time with a music video when I could watch TV on a Mac from 1993?"
Wintel boxes get so old and so decrepid so quickly that it hurts. That Quadra shames anything my dad has (older P2 Dells and Compaq boxes from 300 to 500MHz). Running OS 8.1, it's more reliable than windoze 2000.
There's just no comparison to the useful life between Macs and x86 boxen. I put Mac OS 9.1 on my 7200... a 120MHz Power Mac with 112MB of RAM is running the highest version OS available for it. 9.1 was released in 2001. The 7200 came out in 1995. Would you dream of installing Windows Me or 2000 on an x86 box that hit the streets in 1995? Never.
Oh yeah, I popped a USB/Firewire combo card as well as a Radeon Mac Edition video card in the 7200. A G3-on-a-PCI-card upgrade might be next.
Or maybe it's getting close to time to retire it?
Nah.
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quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy James: Mac Commando:
Well, I've had a Quadra 840av for ages now. Yes, the cool old one with the 40MHz 68040. The one that has the 66MHz DSP in it for video and audio processing.
The one that was seven grand new.
Yeah. I've got one.
But anyway, I was at a friend's house and... for some reason, I had it and my Power Mac 7200 (beloved machine) out in the car. My friend's dad is a moron and just got a POS new Hell, I mean Dell.
What a turd. The plastic case is so fucking cheap that I cracked it by leaning too hard against it.
So, knowing that I use Macs, he looks at me and says "Hey, bet you can't do THIS on any of your Apples!"
He then plays a short video clip.
I look over at my friend, we go outside, bring in the 840av along with a mouse and my trusty VGA adaptor. We plug his dad's shitty Dell screen into the Quadra (I'm still apologizing to my baby) and I plug a VCR into the Quadra via the RCA video in, and the sound via an RCA to 1/8" adaptor to the mic in port of the Mac.
I fire it up, plug the cable TV into the tape player and we watch tv shows on the Quadra.
Then I look at the imbecile dad and say "No, you're wrong! But the real question is... why would I waste my time with a music video when I could watch TV on a Mac from 1993?"
Wintel boxes get so old and so decrepid so quickly that it hurts. That Quadra shames anything my dad has (older P2 Dells and Compaq boxes from 300 to 500MHz). Running OS 8.1, it's more reliable than windoze 2000.
There's just no comparison to the useful life between Macs and x86 boxen. I put Mac OS 9.1 on my 7200... a 120MHz Power Mac with 112MB of RAM is running the highest version OS available for it. 9.1 was released in 2001. The 7200 came out in 1995. Would you dream of installing Windows Me or 2000 on an x86 box that hit the streets in 1995? Never.
Oh yeah, I popped a USB/Firewire combo card as well as a Radeon Mac Edition video card in the 7200. A G3-on-a-PCI-card upgrade might be next.
Or maybe it's getting close to time to retire it?
Nah.
I bet my 2.53ghz P4 Northwood w/1GB of 1,200mhz RDRAM, 120GB 7,200 RPM ATA-133 IDE drive(I am going to be moving to SCSI storage soon)beats the piss out of any Mac on the market right now. IT is fast....devilishly fast.
(EDITED because of a typo)
[ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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quote:
I bet my 2.53ghz P4 w/1GB of 1,200mhz RDRAM, 120GB 7,200 RPM ATA-133 IDE drive(I am going to be moving to SCSI storage soon)beats the piss out of any Mac on the market right now. IT is fast....devilishly fast.
i dont know about that. my dual 1ghz mac rocks every PC i have used. i guess it also depends on what the test will be. if its buring a dvd while working on a couple HUGE (300+mbs) images, uploading shit to my website, and listening to iTunes play mp3 off of my firewire drive. maybe we can play amovie in quicktime also. I dont think your (or anyones) pc can do that. maybe one at a time, but not all at once, flawlessly.
i have seen some pc vs mac benchmarks, but they were all single tasks. and the pc barely wins. when was the last time you worked on one thing at a time? my mac multi-tasks like a champ. where as i cant move a window in windows without winamp or whatever skipping like fuck.
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quote:
Originally posted by Xyle: iGeek...:
i dont know about that. my dual 1ghz mac rocks every PC i have used. i guess it also depends on what the test will be. if its buring a dvd while working on a couple HUGE (300+mbs) images, uploading shit to my website, and listening to iTunes play mp3 off of my firewire drive. maybe we can play amovie in quicktime also. I dont think your (or anyones) pc can do that. maybe one at a time, but not all at once, flawlessly.
i have seen some pc vs mac benchmarks, but they were all single tasks. and the pc barely wins. when was the last time you worked on one thing at a time? my mac multi-tasks like a champ. where as i cant move a window in windows without winamp or whatever skipping like fuck.
There is something wrong with your PC then. My system(s) can multitask like a champ. Right now I'm burning a CD, playing a 630MB MPEG in WMP9, surfing the net, uploading some files to my FTP space and I have Project 64(N64 emulator) running with a 60MB ROM loaded(Conkers Bad Fur Day) and the system isn't hiccuping at all. As a matter of fact, I still have 54% of my CPU cycles left according to my CPU meter. Now, if I were burning a CD with a burner that works only in PIO mode there would be some troubles. Gotta love DMA transfer modes on storage devices.
Your problem with the PC could be your OS(Win9x can't multitask for shit if you are using 9x), you could have a PIO hard drive(or your BIOS has DMA disabled)), you have a small amount of RAM, you have a crappy video card or something has your OS installation bum-fucked or it could be a combination of more than 1 of the above.
If this was a Dual CPU or a Hyperthread enabled system, I would only be using like 8-12% of my CPU cycles.
[ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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my pc is a dual athlon with 1gig ddr. 2 40gig ibm 7200 rpm drives, 2 18gig ibm scsi drives, geforce 3 64mb, running windows 2k. its runs really cold ;) . so heating is not a problem. xp ran like shit, so i upgraded to 2000 (i should have just used radHat, but, until autodesk & discreet produce their software for other os, i will have windows in my house). all of the hardware works fine together. i have scoured the web for info about my system and it just comes down to the fact that it is inferior to my mac.
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quote:
Originally posted by Xyle: iGeek...:
my pc is a dual athlon with 1gig ddr. 2 40gig ibm 7200 rpm drives, 2 18gig ibm scsi drives, geforce 3 64mb, running windows 2k. its runs really cold ;) . so heating is not a problem. xp ran like shit, so i upgraded to 2000 (i should have just used radHat, but, until autodesk & discreet produce their software for other os, i will have windows in my house). all of the hardware works fine together. i have scoured the web for info about my system and it just comes down to the fact that it is inferior to my mac.
There is definatley something wrong with the way your software or/and BIOS configuration then. For starters, go to your device manager and make sure that your IDE controller has UDMA enabled for all of the IDE channels. I'm assuming that you have a VIA chipset on the motherboard of your PC. Well, Via chipsets are plauged with issues so technically your PC is inferior to your Mac. AMD CPU's and the motherboards for AMD CPU's are fucking junk. The chipsets for AMD have nothing but emulation for Intel patented technology(AMD boards do not have a real AGP bus...the AGP bus is emulated via AGP driving strength, Intel invented and holds patents to the real AGP technology, AMD CPU's are nothing more than an emulation of Ix86 and AMD chipsets tend to have IDE issues).
Try building a modern PC with quality parts instead of trying to save some $$$ then you will have something comparable to your Mac.
[ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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the pc is very "modern". and i see no reason to run out and spend $3300 on a system that will be "un"modern in about 6 months. fuck that. since i have moved almost my entire production to mac, the pc isnt that important. since i am only using it for 1-2 things, the setup is fine for now. someday, i might consider upgrading my pc. ill probably just wait until redhat9 or 10.
some people are mac people. some people like pcs. its too bad we have to continualy fight over who we think is better. if you can get your work done on time and make it look good on a pc, then by all means use it. i am more productive on a mac. i like mac better. doesnt mean i think im better. doesnt mean that the mac IS better. its just a preference.
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Fast? Who gives a shit if it runs Windoze?
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quote:
Fast? Who gives a shit if it runs Windoze?
:D
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quote:
Originally posted by Xyle: iGeek...:
the pc is very "modern". and i see no reason to run out and spend $3300 on a system that will be "un"modern in about 6 months. fuck that. since i have moved almost my entire production to mac, the pc isnt that important. since i am only using it for 1-2 things, the setup is fine for now. someday, i might consider upgrading my pc. ill probably just wait until redhat9 or 10.
some people are mac people. some people like pcs. its too bad we have to continualy fight over who we think is better. if you can get your work done on time and make it look good on a pc, then by all means use it. i am more productive on a mac. i like mac better. doesnt mean i think im better. doesnt mean that the mac IS better. its just a preference.
You know man. You are too right. Maybe PC people and Mac people should like unite and let it become a computer users community instead of Mac user and PC user community. ;P The machine one prefers doesn't make the person who he/she is so why should there be a continuous Mac vs. PC war? Truthfully, I'm starting to like the maturitiy level of most Mac users so I'm not going to even be bothered with trying to compare Apples and Oranges anymore.
BTW, If I had've said anything to compare Windows to Linux the *nix people would've been flaming me and calling me names by now. ;P
[ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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BSD has the best multitasking.
OSX uses BSD.
Windoze does not use BSD
=-)
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You know Zombie, you used to have quite a bad reputation around here, but messages like the one above makes me think that there's hope for everyone.
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quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy James: Mac Commando:
Well, I've had a Quadra 840av for ages now. Yes, the cool old one with the 40MHz 68040. The one that has the 66MHz DSP in it for video and audio processing.
The one that was seven grand new.
Yeah. I've got one.
But anyway, I was at a friend's house and... for some reason, I had it and my Power Mac 7200 (beloved machine) out in the car. My friend's dad is a moron and just got a POS new Hell, I mean Dell.
What a turd. The plastic case is so fucking cheap that I cracked it by leaning too hard against it.
So, knowing that I use Macs, he looks at me and says "Hey, bet you can't do THIS on any of your Apples!"
He then plays a short video clip.
I look over at my friend, we go outside, bring in the 840av along with a mouse and my trusty VGA adaptor. We plug his dad's shitty Dell screen into the Quadra (I'm still apologizing to my baby) and I plug a VCR into the Quadra via the RCA video in, and the sound via an RCA to 1/8" adaptor to the mic in port of the Mac.
I fire it up, plug the cable TV into the tape player and we watch tv shows on the Quadra.
Then I look at the imbecile dad and say "No, you're wrong! But the real question is... why would I waste my time with a music video when I could watch TV on a Mac from 1993?"
Wintel boxes get so old and so decrepid so quickly that it hurts. That Quadra shames anything my dad has (older P2 Dells and Compaq boxes from 300 to 500MHz). Running OS 8.1, it's more reliable than windoze 2000.
I remember my p166 i just dumped a few months ago... It had a tv-card just liked your old mac, it worked like a charm... I used Win95 and Linux.
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quote:
You know man. You are too right. Maybe PC people and Mac people should like unite and let it become a computer users community instead of Mac user and PC user community. ;P The machine one prefers doesn't make the person who he/she is so why should there be a continuous Mac vs. PC war? Truthfully, I'm starting to like the maturitiy level of most Mac users so I'm not going to even be bothered with trying to compare Apples and Oranges anymore.
:eek: :eek:
wow. i really wasnt expecting that response. less trollish, more contributing member. today is def a strange day at the MES :D
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Wow indeed.
Now, mind you, I didn't make a performance claim. I was simply commenting on system capabilities. A machine built in 1993... completely stock (save for an added HD and RAM upped to 128MB) can do things that a stock PC from this past year could never dream of doing.
I still think that Apple's lost the edge in hardware innovation, and until I see otherwise, I'll go on believing that. They've still got the engineering and industrial design, but they sure ain't got any new "insanely great" ideas.
As for your PC, Zombie, I don't doubt it'll kick most Macs' asses. I'm afraid that Apple's not only fucked up by putting marketing first (sticking with the marginal G4) but also by skimping in other areas, like getting DDR so late in the game, using IMHO, shitty ass Maxtor drives when for the price you pay, you should be getting the best Western Digital drives in the world. That's what the ability to piece together your own box lets you do... make sure you get THE BEST from everything.
Right now, Apple's claim to fame is quality and software. That's why I use Apple computers instead of PCs. I can't run Mac OS and OS X on x86 boxes. And even if I could, I'd have to worry about IBM's shitty static BIOS concept rearing its ugly head and fucking things up, making hardware configuration a true Pain In The Ass(TM)
[ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: Jimmy James: Mac Commando ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy James: Mac Commando:
Right now, Apple's claim to fame is quality and software. That's why I use Apple computers instead of PCs. I can't run Mac OS and OS X on x86 boxes. And even if I could, I'd have to worry about IBM's shitty static BIOS concept rearing its ugly head and fucking things up, making hardware configuration a true Pain In The Ass(TM)
[ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: Jimmy James: Mac Commando ]
Maxtor drives aren't that bad. They are better than Western Digitals for sure. Western Digital drives have always given me problems. We've had alot of WD drives returned to us where I work because of problems that our customers had with them too. When it comes to quality, I recommend a Seagate Barricuda. They are fast, quiet and reliable. Maxtor comes to a close second place. Maxtor drives are damn good for as cheap as they are. I think that Apple should do something about thier current line of G4's. I think it is time for Apple to unveil the G5 or at least a G4 that is considerably faster than what they have today(get those suckers to 2ghz or something). Apple needs to get on the bandwagon of updating the technology that thier motherboards use too. You are pissing in the wind when you slap a fast processor into a mobo that has bad memory bandwidth(PC-133 SDRAM really does suck by todays standards) and slow hard drive transfers(aren't Macs still limited to ATA66 or ATA100?).
(EDIT)Fuck IBM BTW. Why would you use a anything made by IBM or anything that uses IBMs' technology(like the BIOS you mentioned)? Personally I prefer boards that use an Award BIOS. I have never had any configuration problems nor have I had my BIOS configuration changed without me making the modifications with a standard Award BIOS.
[ January 22, 2003: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
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Why would anyone run a movie, burn a CD and do many other things at the same time? Only those who wanna show off do this. Don
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Zombie,
In everything, individual experience varies. My experience with drives has been the reverse. Maxtors failing and WDs going strong for years, years, years. Not saying you're wrong. Just saying all of my Maxtors have died horribly while all my WDs have been the acme of reliability.
About the BIOS, I'm just talking about the original PC BIOS. I, too, rather like Award's BIOS. It's the best PnP implementation I've seen on x86.
And like I said, the hardware bottlenecks that plague Apple's hardware are strangling them. dual 1.25GHz G4s really could whip the shit outta the 3GHz Northwood P4... if they didn't have the world's shittiest architecture around the G4s. They don't fully utilize the DDR RAM, and the G4s are starved for bandwidth.
The next Power Macs need... really need... at LEAST 1.8+ GHz processors, serial ATA, a good DDR architecture that actually works, and other things that can't be described as "so 1999".
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now as for pc vs wintel, i think zombies machine would be a bit faster. then agian, moterola/*SP*/ has really been dragging their feet. but then agian, in the AIM/*no, not the instant messanger, the Apple IBM Moterola*/ pact hopefully IBM can delever with the ppc 970. and its a damn shame that the alpha is getting scraped for the itanic, but this is a mac forum so ill talk about it later. on the what i have done.
ok, i got my powermac 9500 a month or so ago, pluged it into my network, and when i told it to it configured itself with dhcp. and i didn't need to reboot it. i though that was pretty cool, but it only has a 1 gig harddrive in it. so i was thinking, and looking at my 100gig western digital/*most of the harddrives i have are WD's, then agian, the quaility is probably down all around*/ since i don't have an expensive ata card for the mac, i went and loaded netatalk up on my main linux box. low and and clicked the chooser and selected the drive. entered my username and password, and it mounted the drive. and started installing software on it and using itunes. unlike my experiances with samba, it is a nightmare on both ends.
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Here is something for you fools. My PC plays great games like Counter Strike, Quake, Unreal Tournament, BZFlag, and more, I can burn CD's at 8x(thats as fast as my burner goes), watch movies in a lot of formats thanks to mplayer, realplayer, xine, xmovie, and ogle for DVD's, I have OpenOffice 1.0 for office documents, KDE 3 for eye candy, Mozilla for browsing, and The Gimp for graphic manipulation, and its all on my 200 mhz PC. The thing never crashes, and it only shows its age when compiling programs from source. Best thing is that the pc only cost me $15.
Lintel kicks ass. (Linux + Intel)
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CS?????
What fps???
You must've tweaked that like hell, i've used a similar machine and it was sooo slow.
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as for multitasking, i do almost same thing/*can't watch a movie cause its way to slow*/, burn a cd at 40x while using xmms and surfing the inernet and running a gnutella client, ill probably have 2/3 terminal's open. and for not multitasking like that, am i supposed to stop doing everything when i cut a disk? not listen to mp3's when im surfing the web, and god forbid leave the gnutella client up 80% of the time
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I agree with Jimmy James here. Apple should focus more on delivering faster processors and utilizing DDR RAM more efficiently and less on marketing.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
I bet my 2.53ghz P4 Northwood w/1GB of 1,200mhz RDRAM, 120GB 7,200 RPM ATA-133 IDE drive(I am going to be moving to SCSI storage soon)beats the piss out of any Mac on the market right now. IT is fast....devilishly fast.
(EDITED because of a typo)
[ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
Yea kinda like a compareing a Supercharged big ass V8 to some jap turbo car, the V8 may have more horsepower but the HANDLEING is fucked right around.
PC's have power, no doubt about it, but they are to primative with to many backwards downties which make them crappy, mainly its the fact that PC's have 10 zillion brands of parts which makes them nice and cheap but unreliable.
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quote:
Originally posted by Interscope:
BSD has the best multitasking.
OSX uses BSD.
Windoze does not use BSD
=-)
Windows NT's kernel and the bulk of it was made by the same devlopers from the VMS team, it is like vms in almost everyway except Microsoft put the Win32 API and Win16 API and DOS emulation in the kernel, drive letters and other shit which shitted it. Instead of innovating they fucked a good os.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
There is something wrong with your PC then. My system(s) can multitask like a champ. Right now I'm burning a CD, playing a 630MB MPEG in WMP9, surfing the net, uploading some files to my FTP space and I have Project 64(N64 emulator) running with a 60MB ROM loaded(Conkers Bad Fur Day) and the system isn't hiccuping at all. As a matter of fact, I still have 54% of my CPU cycles left according to my CPU meter. Now, if I were burning a CD with a burner that works only in PIO mode there would be some troubles. Gotta love DMA transfer modes on storage devices.
Your problem with the PC could be your OS(Win9x can't multitask for shit if you are using 9x), you could have a PIO hard drive(or your BIOS has DMA disabled)), you have a small amount of RAM, you have a crappy video card or something has your OS installation bum-fucked or it could be a combination of more than 1 of the above.
If this was a Dual CPU or a Hyperthread enabled system, I would only be using like 8-12% of my CPU cycles.
[ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]
I can do more in Linux (play UT) well CD's burn, i have had NO COASTERS. And my system is a Celery 850 with only 256mb of ram.
ALL HAIL LINUS
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Oh yeah. Well my computer can beat up all your computers. And still have power to play UT.
Your CD-RW doesn't happen to have brun-proof, eh X11?
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my Power Mac 7200 could whip all y'all!
And if you survived, my SE/30 and my Mac 512 will tag team on ya and whip ya like Hulk and the Rock!
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hehehe,
as for the *BSD and VMS stuff, windowsnt is the bastard child of both operating systems, and it grew up in a very dysfunctional family.
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Let me just say that counter strike is by no means at high frames per second, but it does run just fine at low resolutions with my geforce 2. Im not a believer in the whole mhz myth, and my computer is proof positive that you dont need a 2 ghz pc, or dual g4 mac, to have a decent computer experience. Infact I dont think that anyone needs a pc (non mac) faster than 500 mhz unless they are doing graphic art, or playing high end games. I noticed when I bought a 1.8 ghz pc, I could not tell a speed difference when using normal applications compared to my 433mhz.
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quote:
Originally posted by ThePreacher:
Infact I dont think that anyone needs a pc (non mac) faster than 500 mhz unless they are doing graphic art, or playing high end games.
So if you don't belive in any mhz myths, they why would they require a PC with "bigger numbers"?
And in my limited expeience, 800mhz has done fine for me. 400 has driven me to the urge to kill.
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you'se-a-just jealous because Mace Windu cut off your dad's head! :D
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*sticks fingers in ears* La la la la. I didn't see that. I didn't hear that. The saga ended after ROTJ. Lucas has no power over me.
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the new flicks are equal to the quality of the recent star trek shit. pretty low.
Ewan MacGregor, Ian McDiarmid, Christopher Lee... I can't see why they decided to get involved in the flicks.
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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Truthfully, I'm starting to like the maturitiy level of most Mac users so I'm not going to even be bothered with trying to compare Apples and Oranges anymore.
PC's are Oranges? Wow, that's something to think about (do you think they make orange cold cathodes?) (http://tongue.gif)
I agree! We should all coexist in harmony. OS X 10.2 facilitates that to a large extent. We can't really force people to use Macs, so we might as well get along.
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quote:
Originally posted by fett101:
Oh yeah. Well my computer can beat up all your computers. And still have power to play UT.
Your CD-RW doesn't happen to have brun-proof, eh X11?
no it does not.