And you wonder why Linux is not Mainstream Like Windows is?

[Bazoukas]

Because people are faking Morons thats why.

  I have people asking me to fix their PC, because "oh i cant see the Scanner anymore, ohh how do you install a Driver? oohhhh The CDROM wont play anymore. ohhhh i dont know how to configure my firewall".


  All of them are ofcourse Windows9 ME or XP users.


 I have been called a genious just for replacing a Modem. And shit i dont even know if I even spelled the word genious correctly.
  Hell i am the 1st to tell you that i am just an average smo.

 Lets faking face it. Windows although its fucked up, is easy to use. But still a good portion of PC users dont even know how to use WIndows even though they cyber the shit out of themselves everyday.

  Yeah i know what am talking about. I seen many naked pics of the owners themselves in the MyDocuments folder.


  Try to ask them to go to Linux and they will start crying like bitches.


 PEOPLE ARE FUCKING MORONS!!!!!   They are sheeps.
Beeeeeee beeeeeeeeee beeeeeeeee.

 Compile from source??

 "Oh my that sounds very complicated. Can you do that? And what does it mean? Oh I dont u nderstand but you are a genious".

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]

[voidmain]

Translation: You are their Windows slave.

It really pisses people off but I quit helping them. If they don't want to be your friend any more then they weren't a friend to start with.

[choasforages]

i like it when people claim im a god,

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by choasforages:
i like it when people claim im a god,

People know that you like it, and they also know that because of that you will fix their Windows problems for them.  It's called a carrot. I prefer cash.

[Master of Reality]

i used to hate those people, but after i fixed it it would usually start being "broken" again because windows is a piece of crap, then i would get blamed.  Then i stopped helping most people with their windows problems unless it is the[/]b windows problem (meaning that they are getting rid of it)

[willysnout]

quote:Originally posted by bazoukas:
Try to ask them to go to Linux and they will start crying like bitches.

PEOPLE ARE FUCKING MORONS!!!!!   They are sheeps.
Beeeeeee beeeeeeeeee beeeeeeeee.

There's a really good book you should read. It's called The Wealth of Nations. Author is Adam Smith. Published in 1776. Chapter 1 explains an idea called "division of labor." You know, not everyone does everything for themselves. Instead, they specialize. Some people are farmers, others are blacksmiths, others are computer geeks.

When the farmer needs help with his computer, he hires a geek. Payment can come in all kinds of forms. If not money, maybe eggs, because the geek has offloaded food production to someone who specializes in it.

So ... do you slaughter your own tofu or do you buy it at the natural foods co-op?


p.s.: Without problems there are no jobs. Without jobs, you sit on heating grates and beg for quarters.

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: willysnout ]

[DC]

quote:Originally posted by willysnout:

So ... do you slaughter your own tofu or do you buy it at the natural foods co-op?

The ting is that we geeks CAN grow/slaughter our own food if we want to. Granted, it may be less good as the farmer's, but it'll be edible.

Most ppl can't even do the simpelest things on a computer. Even with a manual in their hands.

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by willysnout:

There's a really good book you should read. It's called The Wealth of Nations. Author is Adam Smith. Published in 1776. Chapter 1 explains an idea called "division of labor." You know, not everyone does everything for themselves. Instead, they specialize. Some people are farmers, others are blacksmiths, others are computer geeks.

When the farmer needs help with his computer, he hires a geek. Payment can come in all kinds of forms. If not money, maybe eggs, because the geek has offloaded food production to someone who specializes in it.

So ... do you slaughter your own tofu or do you buy it at the natural foods co-op?


p.s.: Without problems there are no jobs. Without jobs, you sit on heating grates and beg for quarters.

Hey, I grew up on a farm, I milked cows all my life. I was also a fighter jet mechanic for about 12 years.  Have been a professional computer geek for the last 12 years. I know many farmers who do not need help with their computer.

I don't ask any farmer for a free lunch.  I don't expect any farmer to ask me to fix his computer for free.  You want to pay to have your computer fixed that is fine but there is nothing to stop anyone from learning a little about it themselves and not pay anyone for it.  Just as it is ok for anyone to have a garden and grow their own food.  If you are dumber than a box of rocks, pay someone to do your dirty work.

People are not born with a gene that makes them a farmer. People are not born with a gene that makes them a computer geek.  Now it is entirely possible that people are born with a gene that makes them lazy and even more possible that they are born with a gene that makes them stupid.

[willysnout]

quote:Originally posted by VoidMain:
You want to pay to have your computer fixed that is fine but there is nothing to stop anyone from learning a little about it themselves and not pay anyone for it.  Now it is entirely possible that people are born with a gene that makes them lazy and even more possible that they are born with a gene that makes them stupid.

I agree with you that people don't work for free, nor should they. If you don't want to help someone fix their comptuer, then don't do it. You'll hear no complaints from me.

My point is that people who don't understand computers aren't "dumb." It's a complicated world and lots of people don't want to learn how to fix their computers, or have no aptitude for it. There is nothing at all wrong with this.

Other way around, in fact. It is called "specialization." People focus their time and effort on things they enjoy and/or do well. When this happens, the overall welfare goes up.

It's a damn shame that Microsoft, of all companies, should wind up being the leader in user-friendliness. That is a HUGE commentary on the incompetence, insularity, arrogance and isolationism prevalent within the "geek," i.e., computer specialist, community.

If the geeks weren't so out of it, Microsoft would fall like a ton o'bricks. Especially after that abortion they call Windows XP. But they haven't fallen, and that's because Linux is dominated by arrogant geeks whose answer to ordinary usability problems by non-specialists is to call them idiots.

I once took a college class on the history of World War II. The professor talked about how, when the Germans invaded the Soviet Union, they were greeted with wild enthusiasm in places like the Ukraine, which had been literally starved to death by Stalin. Within months, the people learned that the Germans were even worse than the Russians.

Stalin, truly one of the most hideous murderers in human history, wound up rallying these poor wretches! You see, the Nazis had classified Eastern Europeans as animals fit for slavery and death. This is how German snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Not that I wish they had been smarter; I mention this as a point of strategy and tactics only.

At the moment, this is how I look upon the Linux crowd. There is widespread dissatisfaction with Microsoft, and it grows with every price increase, "upgrade" and power play. What do the Silicon Valley pinheads do in response? They set about to blow a collossal opportunity by projecting hostility and arrogance toward people who just want to use their computers as opposed to fall in love with them.

Now that, children, is the very definition of idiocy.

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: willysnout ]

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: willysnout ]

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by willysnout:

If the geeks weren't so out of it, Microsoft would fall like a ton o'bricks. Especially after that abortion they call Windows XP. But they haven't fallen, and that's because Linux is dominated by arrogant geeks whose answer to ordinary usability problems by non-specialists is to call them idiots.

At the moment, this is how I look upon the Linux crowd. There is widespread dissatisfaction with Microsoft, and it grows with every price increase, "upgrade" and power play. What do the Silicon Valley pinheads do in response? They set about to blow a collossal opportunity by projecting hostility and arrogance toward people who just want to use their computers as opposed to fall in love with them.

You got it wrong.  I can not think of a single case where someone asked a simple question about Linux and have any experienced Linux user do anything but bend over backward trying to help them, for free, no charge. I spend several hours a day doing "charity" Linux work, because I love to do it, and because I hate Microsoft.

Now, I have seen many cases where someone has asked a simple question about Windows and get flamed for it.  After all this *is* an anti-Microsoft board. I would expect nothing less.

And Silicon Valley has nothing really to do with Linux at all.  That is the place where proprietary things come from.  The linux effort is worldwide and has a complete opposite philosophy to what you see from Silicon Valley.  Microsoft are the Nazis (big, bad, proprietary, the leader is an ugly dictator). Linux, GNU, Open Source are the Jews.  Just like Hitler and the Nazis, Microsoft will fall and then life will be much better.

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]

[willysnout]

quote:Originally posted by VoidMain:
You got it wrong.  I can not think of a single case where someone asked a simple question about Linux and have any experienced Linux user do anything but bend over backward trying to help them, for free, no charge.

No doubt you have helped people, and that's a good thing. All I'll say is that, until the Linux crowd comes up with a version that is easy to use for people who really don't want to know everything there is to know about computers and OSes and the rest, it won't get off the ground in the mass market and Microsoft will remain dominant.

If the rebuttal is that the mass market represents a society of idiots, well, then Linux remains a hobby. Maybe that's what a lot of people want, so they can continue to carp at Microsoft. On the other hand, maybe a light bulb will go on in someone's brain and they'll think to themselves, "Hey, maybe it's time computers were like cars that you can turn on and drive without having to open the hood."

Whoever does that will do well in life; will really help a lot of people; and will breathe life back into the computer industry, which is slowly strangling as Microsoft squeezes all the innovation out of it. I'm not going to be that person because I'm not a computer specialist. I'm just an idiot consumer who would like the damn things to work without my having to learn a bunch of software and hardware junk that, quite frankly, doesn't interest me in the least.

I'm glad other people are interested, and I'm willing to pay for superior products that I can actually use with confidence that they will work. That is the opportunity, multipled by oh, 100 million or so.

 

quote:Now, I have seen many cases where someone has asked a simple question about Windows and get flamed for it.  After all this *is* an anti-Microsoft board. I would expect nothing less.

Agree on that one!

 

quote: And Silicon Valley has nothing really to do with Linux at all.  That is the place where proprietary things come from.

Correct me if I wrong, but isn't it either Sun or Oracle whose CEO told everyone that privacy is dead, get used to it, and which is a big leader in the Linux stuff? What about this Red Hat company? They're from Silicon Valley, right? See, this is a problem for me. Microsoft is the devil I know, but I wonder if leaving them for Linux (when it's ready for "idiots" like me) will be like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

quote:Microsoft are the Nazis (big, bad, proprietary, the leader is an ugly dictator). Linux, GNU, Open Source are the Jews.  Just like Hitler and the Nazis, Microsoft will fall and then life will be much better.

Depends on what comes next, doesn't it. We could get a situation that reminds us all of the Who song, Don't Get Fooled Again. I'm hopeful, but I'm also not holding my breath.

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: willysnout ]

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: willysnout ]

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: willysnout ]

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by willysnout:

No doubt you have helped people, and that's a good thing. All I'll say is that, until the Linux crowd comes up with a version that is easy to use for people who really don't want to know everything there is to know about computers and OSes and the rest, it won't get off the ground in the mass market and Microsoft will remain dominant.

If the rebuttal is that the mass market represents a society of idiots, well, then Linux remains a hobby. Maybe that's what a lot of people want, so they can continue to carp at Microsoft. On the other hand, maybe a light bulb will go on in someone's brain and they'll think to themselves, "Hey, maybe it's time computers were like cars that you can turn on and drive without having to open the hood."

Whoever does that will do well in life; will really help a lot of people; and will breathe life back into the computer industry, which is slowly strangling as Microsoft squeezes all the innovation out of it. I'm not going to be that person because I'm not a computer specialist. I'm just an idiot consumer who would like the damn things to work without my having to learn a bunch of software and hardware junk that, quite frankly, doesn't interest me in the least.

But what you have to understand is GNU/Linux are not a company.  You continue to make it sound like the GNU/Linux movement is driven by a company. The issues you list are motivations for a company.  Linux was written by people just like you. Linus Torvolds was originally going to school to become an engineer.  The people that wrote GNU/Linux are many, from different backgrounds, from different countries.  A lot of software was written by people just like you who were frustrated that there was no software that would do exactly as they wanted, or it was too expensive.  So they decided to do something about it, and wrote their own, and then shared the source code with everyone else so they had a chance to make their own improvements, for free, no charge, no questions asked. Personally, I think that people who are that generous are just plain cool, and I will support them in any way I can, and I won't make demands of them. If I feel that strongly about something I will ask if they have thought of including it, if not, I will live with it, or if it is that important to me I will do the coding myself and share the changes.

I don't know if you have tried Linux but I believe there are several distributions of Linux that are much easier to install than Windows. I also believe that they are just as easy to use as Windows. And I believe they all work much more reliably than Windows.

I see the big issue right now is not ease of use, but off the shelf software such as games.  There is no doubt that there are more games for Windows out there.  And Linux will run a small percentage of those Windows programs, it certainly wont run them all.  And usually the Windows programs will not run as good as they do in Windows.  But hey, they are Windows programs, not Linux programs.  Windows can not run *anything other than* Windows programs.  Now if all of the off the shelf application developers will sell a copy of their software written for Linux as well as for Windows I believe Windows will die quickly.  It's a chicken/egg type of issue though.  Developers will not develop for Linux because of the small percentage of installed desktops, yet it is difficult to increase the percentage of installed desktops without the applications.  But I believe it is coming, not as fast as I would like, but it's coming.

   

quote:Correct me if I wrong, but isn't it either Sun or Oracle whose CEO told everyone that privacy is dead, get used to it, and which is a big leader in the Linux stuff? What about this Red Hat company? They're from Silicon Valley, right? See, this is a problem for me. Microsoft is the devil I know, but I wonder if leaving them for Linux (when it's ready for "idiots" like me) will be like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I will correct you. Neither Sun nor Oracle are Linux "leaders".  In fact GNU/Linux is actually a direct threat to Sun's business (the Solaris operating system).  Now what they both have realized is that if they want to survive they are going to have to jump on the Linux band wagon.

No, RedHat is not from Silicon Valley. They are from Raleigh, North Carolina. In fact they really don't have much to do with the development of GNU/Linux, but they have a nice way of tying all of the pieces together (GNU software, Linux kernel, the KDE software, and much more open source software) into an easy to install and use operating system.  They also provide support which is primarily what you are paying for when you purchase the boxed set of RedHat (along with manuals). RedHat also makes revenue from training and certification programs. You have always been able to download the CD images from RedHat for free if you wish. Also, RedHat was originally (and still is) put together more with servers in mind. But I (and many others) find it to be a great desktop operating system. In fact I just read where RedHat may now be changing that thinking (or enhancing it) to take desktop systems more seriously.

Having said that, RedHat could close up shop tomorrow for any reason and the switch to another Linux distribution would be fairly painless. I find comfort in that. Now if Microsoft were to close up shop tomorrow there would be many who have built their businesses around Microsoft software in big trouble.  I don't think either will happen any time real soon but you never know.

   

quote:Depends on what comes next, doesn't it. We could get a situation that reminds us all of the Who song, Don't Get Fooled Again. I'm hopeful, but I'm also not holding my breath.

You can only "Get Fooled Again" if you buy the newest release of Windows.

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]

[Kintaro]

Introduce them to Linux by showing them it, i show my friendz a LInux desktop and they gawk at how muh work is in the free software, and no popups adds, or 10 second waits for programs to close. Someone told someone and i over heardthem saying "Linux is shareware, and it only works 90 days" so i got him and hit him in the head, he cryed and ran home, and for fuck sake... Im a Linux using geek ass pussy and skin whiter than an eskimos ass! DAMN!!!

[Bazoukas]

quote:Originally posted by willysnout:


There's a really good book you should read. It's called The Wealth of Nations. Author is Adam Smith. Published in 1776. Chapter 1 explains an idea called "division of labor." You know, not everyone does everything for themselves. Instead, they specialize. Some people are farmers, others are blacksmiths, others are computer geeks.

When the farmer needs help with his computer, he hires a geek. Payment can come in all kinds of forms. If not money, maybe eggs, because the geek has offloaded food production to someone who specializes in it.

So ... do you slaughter your own tofu or do you buy it at the natural foods co-op?


p.s.: Without problems there are no jobs. Without jobs, you sit on heating grates and beg for quarters.

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: willysnout ]

 I dont expect from oridnary XPshit users to know about Active Directory - Know how to convert on Octal or Hex - Ipconfig - routing - Assemble their own PC - Create a RAID and yada yada.

 
BUT if your scanner wont export your Image to PowerPoint and you cant simply take the fucking time to say "HMMMMMMMMMM what if I go via PowerPoint and Insert the scanned image using PowerPoint? After All my boss has assinged to me to do that".
   OR when you tell him that "Sir your CDROM has no Conflicts as I showed you. There is no Exlemation Mark on Device Manager. XP sees the CDPLAYER but it cant read shit. That means that the CDPLAYER is messed up." Yet he is MOST SURE that is a Software conflict: I bet my life a software is causing that".  And you tell them "sir there is no way in Hell an Application did that. The driver might have been corrupted but as you see we reinstalled it"

 But nooooooooooooooooooooooo...he knows better. Afterall he is a fucking construction worker and i am a Fucking Computer Science major.


  My point is.  I will Help people with things that are complicated.  But dont be an ass and expect me to clean your ass when you take a dump.


 I am not the smartest guy in the world. But I am smart enough to Read English (second Language btw) and see that fucking Insert in Poewr Point.  Its called thinking LOGICAL.

 I dont pass my self as an Expert in Computers. Far from it. I know i have to learn alot.  And you will see soon enough the shitload of questions am preparing about Linux for the guys in here (Hello guys     )


   And trust me. If i can do it. EVERYONE can figure out the simple shit.

 I was a psych major before this (and a Fucking good one at that)  and in Math I was always bad.
 The first time I ever sat in front of a computer Running GUI I didnt even know what was that thing with the trackball and the thick wire for.
 And i shit you not about this.


 The only computer I used before that (i just played games and VERY light programing. Hello world programs) was an 128 AMSTRAD running BASIC LOCOMOTIVE 6.3 or 6.7.
   

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: bazoukas ]

[Calum]

quote:willysnout:
I'm just an idiot consumer

don't put yourself down! there are no idiots, especially when they come on here saying well considered thoughts such as you do. Wasn't it you who was down on the posters here for calling you an idiot before? do yourself a service and don't call yourself an idiot.

A true idiot would never even know it!

and as stated above, it still seems as if you expect the free software crowd to give the support a company can give. It won't and has no interest in doing so. the free software foundation is a charity, and the many open source developers are hobbyists. However there are many companies, like redhat, mandrake, suse and so on, who will give you any and all the support you need if you buy a licence from them.

The main hurdle when it comes to 'ease of use' is the old chestnut of 'sticking to what you know'. To be frank, if you know how to use windows (or MacOS or whatever) and you now want to use a totally new system, you will have to learn how to do so. It is unrealistic to expect a system to behave in exactly the same way as a different system just to stop people having to learn how to use it. Especially since linux has shitloads more features and abilities than windows which would never be used if it had a windows clone interface.

Anyway, enough blabbering on from me...

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]