Author Topic: Free IE With every windows OS!! (Read 821 times)

mael · « **on:** 5 May 2002, 10:25 »

I've debated for years about microsoft Illegally bundling IE into the windows os.. but recently i've been shot down that Microsoft hasn't made any money on it. So i thought i'd come here and talk to some people that know something about it.

My feeling has always been that they bundled IE in and then raised the price later on down the road. Am i wrong?

I really would appreciate some information concerning this.. but i ask that you give links and proof for your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

voidmain · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 May 2002, 10:50 »

Not to change the subject but what I find more interesting is how Microsoft can bash open source, yet derive Internet Explorer from that open source. Click "Help->About" and take note that IE was created from Mosaic, a program I used and customized for our own use on UNIX before there was a Windows version, and before there was an IE or Netscape.
http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SDG/Software/Mosaic/NCSAMosaicHome.html

psyjax · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 May 2002, 12:07 »

IE has nothing to do with money. M$ want's to make sure it has majority rule over how people browse the net. This allows them to impliment all the BS .Net type stuff and their own version of Java.

This way they make sure to control it all. A while ago M$ was thinking of weening people off of .html and on to a proprietary IE only format.

IE is sort of a trojan horse in to M$ marketing. It allows them to tailor content directly tword users, and if everybody uses their browser they get to dictate what you do and don't see and how you see it.

Bundling it with their OS was just a way of creating a "path of least resistance" to user acceptance. It's the one that's there, so they use it without thinking twice.

It was never about money. It was about controling content. If M$ owns the eyes which people view the WWW thrugh, then they can know what you see, tell you how to see it, and make you see what they want you to see.

EDIT:

http://www.kmfms.com/whatsbad.html

Scroll down, to the predatory practices section. He beginns talking about the browser wars and M$'s intentions. Compare and contrast with my theory

[ May 05, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]

psyjax · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 May 2002, 12:19 »

Here is an actual quote from the M$ conviction:

172. Microsoft's refusal to respect the user's choice of default browser fulfilled Brad Chase's 1995 promise to make the use of any browser other than Internet Explorer on Windows "a jolting experience." By increasing the likelihood that using Navigator on Windows 98 would have unpleasant consequences for users, Microsoft further diminished the inclination of OEMs to pre-install Navigator onto Windows. The decision to override the user's selection of non-Microsoft software as the default browser also directly disinclined Windows 98 consumers to use Navigator as their default browser, and it harmed those Windows 98 consumers who nevertheless used Navigator. In particular, Microsoft exposed those using Navigator on Windows 98 to security and privacy risks that are specific to Internet Explorer and to ActiveX controls..

173. Microsoft's actions have inflicted collateral harm on consumers who have no interest in using a Web browser at all. If these consumers want the non-browsing features available only in Windows 98, they must content themselves with an operating system that runs more slowly than if Microsoft had not interspersed browsing-specific routines throughout various files containing routines relied upon by the operating system. More generally, Microsoft has forced Windows 98 users uninterested in browsing to carry software that, while providing them with no benefits, brings with it all the costs associated with carrying additional software on a system. These include performance degradation, increased risk of incompatibilities, and the introduction of bugs. Corporate consumers who need the hardware support and other non-browsing features not available in earlier versions of Windows, but who do not want Web browsing at all, are further burdened in that they are denied a simple and effective means of preventing employees from attempting to browse the Web.

174. Microsoft has harmed even those consumers who desire to use Internet Explorer, and no other browser, with Windows 98. To the extent that browsing-specific routines have been commingled with operating system routines to a greater degree than is necessary to provide any consumer benefit, Microsoft has unjustifiably jeopardized the stability and security of the operating system. Specifically, it has increased the likelihood that a browser crash will cause the entire system to crash and made it easier for malicious viruses that penetrate the system via Internet Explorer to infect non-browsing parts of the system.

http://toastytech.com/evil/fof.html

This site (while gaudy), is actually quite factuall about the whole browser thing:

http://toastytech.com/evil/index.html

it's the root for the one above.

[ May 05, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]

mael · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 May 2002, 17:47 »

psyjax:

Great, thanks for the links! But again, they didn't raise prices on the OS later on? I thought it went for 100 bucks at first and then *magically* went to 200. But this is false?

Thanks for the links, i died laughing when i saw this:

http://toastytech.com/evil/billshit.gif

Calum · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 May 2002, 02:46 »

well even if you get past the thing about IE being free, you need to remember that mozilla is free, lynx is free, Opera is free, OffByOne is free, iCab is free, many other browsers are all free. AND they do not require you to buy a bloody operating system from that company just to get them to run.

The next thing your windoid mates say to you is "even if Microsoft do hoik up the price, you can still get a free IE installer from any cover CD off a magazine" Well that's all very well, but by the time you install your "free" IE from a cover CD, you have ALREADY bought windows, and paid for IE once already.

Just my thoughts...

davebrock · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 May 2002, 04:11 »

too true calum :-(
The thing that interests me however is, correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am) wasn't windows NT sposed to be based on SCO unix? WTF happened with the licensing there? And why the fuck is Win NT/XP such a poor imitation of Unix? MS at it again!!!

Master of Reality · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 May 2002, 04:48 »

quote:
Originally posted by hmd:
too true calum :-(
The thing that interests me however is, correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am) wasn't windows NT sposed to be based on SCO unix? WTF happened with the licensing there? And why the fuck is Win NT/XP such a poor imitation of Unix? MS at it again!!!

Win NT/XP are not supposed to be an imitation of Unix. They are just more microsoft crap.

Calum · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 May 2002, 04:49 »

windows will never be based on unix, although for one reason or another that rumour occasionally gets started, because if windows was unix based, nobody would have a need for M$ any more. their products are shit on their own merit, and without the proprietary stranglehold that their DOS/VFAT situation gives them now, they would not be competitive.

voidmain · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 May 2002, 21:00 »

Actually M$ incorporated some open source stuff for Win2k including much of the BSD TCP/IP stack, and they hacked up and proprietized Kerberos. Bunch of two faced assholes if you ask me. Shooting down open source every chance they get, yet the rape it wherever they can.

Calum · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 May 2002, 16:26 »

raping and basing are two different things though, i'm sure a lot of other open source things have been ripped off by M$ too, they are probably the only ones who can break the law by developing code for an open source project, then refusing to open the code they have written (and keeping the code closed for the stuff they stole too).
That's another good reason for M$ not to show it's source code, it'll be proved that they broke the law by snaffling some of it.

[ May 06, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]

mael · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 May 2002, 12:39 »

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:Iyy9bzjrl58C:www.cei.org/PDFs/microsoft.pdf+%22windows+os%22+%22price+history%22&hl=en" target="_blank">http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:Iyy9bzjrl58C:www.cei.
org/PDFs/microsoft.pdf+%22windows+os%22+%22price+history%22&hl=en

Code: [Select]

It looks like they did still raise the cost of the OS, and im sure its not because of inflation..

BTW thats from a Pro MS site.. lol, im gonna love using it when i debate.

(edited to make it easier to read - Calum)

[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]

mael · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 May 2002, 13:58 »

Thanks calum. Looks much nicer

« previous next » Print Pages: [1] Go Down Author Topic: Free IE With every windows OS!! (Read 821 times) mael Member Posts: 42 Kudos: 0 Free IE With every windows OS!! « on: 5 May 2002, 10:25 » I've debated for years about microsoft Illegally bundling IE into the windows os.. but recently i've been shot down that Microsoft hasn't made any money on it. So i thought i'd come here and talk to some people that know something about it. My feeling has always been that they bundled IE in and then raised the price later on down the road. Am i wrong? I really would appreciate some information concerning this.. but i ask that you give links and proof for your thoughts. Thanks in advance. Logged Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. voidmain VIP Posts: 5,605 Kudos: 184 Free IE With every windows OS!! « Reply #1 on: 5 May 2002, 10:50 » Not to change the subject but what I find more interesting is how Microsoft can bash open source, yet derive Internet Explorer from that open source. Click "Help->About" and take note that IE was created from Mosaic, a program I used and customized for our own use on UNIX before there was a Windows version, and before there was an IE or Netscape. http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SDG/Software/Mosaic/NCSAMosaicHome.html Logged Someone please remove this account. Thanks... psyjax VIP Posts: 1,871 Kudos: 55 Free IE With every windows OS!! « Reply #2 on: 5 May 2002, 12:07 » IE has nothing to do with money. M$ want's to make sure it has majority rule over how people browse the net. This allows them to impliment all the BS .Net type stuff and their own version of Java. This way they make sure to control it all. A while ago M$ was thinking of weening people off of .html and on to a proprietary IE only format. IE is sort of a trojan horse in to M$ marketing. It allows them to tailor content directly tword users, and if everybody uses their browser they get to dictate what you do and don't see and how you see it. Bundling it with their OS was just a way of creating a "path of least resistance" to user acceptance. It's the one that's there, so they use it without thinking twice. It was never about money. It was about controling content. If M$ owns the eyes which people view the WWW thrugh, then they can know what you see, tell you how to see it, and make you see what they want you to see. EDIT: http://www.kmfms.com/whatsbad.html Scroll down, to the predatory practices section. He beginns talking about the browser wars and M$'s intentions. Compare and contrast with my theory [ May 05, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ] Logged Psyjax! I RULEZZZZ!!! HAR HAR HAR psyjax VIP Posts: 1,871 Kudos: 55 Free IE With every windows OS!! « Reply #3 on: 5 May 2002, 12:19 » Here is an actual quote from the M$ conviction: 172. Microsoft's refusal to respect the user's choice of default browser fulfilled Brad Chase's 1995 promise to make the use of any browser other than Internet Explorer on Windows "a jolting experience." By increasing the likelihood that using Navigator on Windows 98 would have unpleasant consequences for users, Microsoft further diminished the inclination of OEMs to pre-install Navigator onto Windows. The decision to override the user's selection of non-Microsoft software as the default browser also directly disinclined Windows 98 consumers to use Navigator as their default browser, and it harmed those Windows 98 consumers who nevertheless used Navigator. In particular, Microsoft exposed those using Navigator on Windows 98 to security and privacy risks that are specific to Internet Explorer and to ActiveX controls.. 173. Microsoft's actions have inflicted collateral harm on consumers who have no interest in using a Web browser at all. If these consumers want the non-browsing features available only in Windows 98, they must content themselves with an operating system that runs more slowly than if Microsoft had not interspersed browsing-specific routines throughout various files containing routines relied upon by the operating system. More generally, Microsoft has forced Windows 98 users uninterested in browsing to carry software that, while providing them with no benefits, brings with it all the costs associated with carrying additional software on a system. These include performance degradation, increased risk of incompatibilities, and the introduction of bugs. Corporate consumers who need the hardware support and other non-browsing features not available in earlier versions of Windows, but who do not want Web browsing at all, are further burdened in that they are denied a simple and effective means of preventing employees from attempting to browse the Web. 174. Microsoft has harmed even those consumers who desire to use Internet Explorer, and no other browser, with Windows 98. To the extent that browsing-specific routines have been commingled with operating system routines to a greater degree than is necessary to provide any consumer benefit, Microsoft has unjustifiably jeopardized the stability and security of the operating system. Specifically, it has increased the likelihood that a browser crash will cause the entire system to crash and made it easier for malicious viruses that penetrate the system via Internet Explorer to infect non-browsing parts of the system. http://toastytech.com/evil/fof.html This site (while gaudy), is actually quite factuall about the whole browser thing: http://toastytech.com/evil/index.html it's the root for the one above. [ May 05, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ] Logged Psyjax! I RULEZZZZ!!! HAR HAR HAR mael Member Posts: 42 Kudos: 0 Free IE With every windows OS!! « Reply #4 on: 5 May 2002, 17:47 » psyjax: Great, thanks for the links! But again, they didn't raise prices on the OS later on? I thought it went for 100 bucks at first and then magically went to 200. But this is false? Thanks for the links, i died laughing when i saw this: http://toastytech.com/evil/billshit.gif Logged Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. Calum Global Moderator Posts: 7,812 Kudos: 1000 Free IE With every windows OS!! « Reply #5 on: 6 May 2002, 02:46 » well even if you get past the thing about IE being free, you need to remember that mozilla is free, lynx is free, Opera is free, OffByOne is free, iCab is free, many other browsers are all free. AND they do not require you to buy a bloody operating system from that company just to get them to run. The next thing your windoid mates say to you is "even if Microsoft do hoik up the price, you can still get a free IE installer from any cover CD off a magazine" Well that's all very well, but by the time you install your "free" IE from a cover CD, you have ALREADY bought windows, and paid for IE once already. Just my thoughts... Logged visit these websites and make yourself happy forever: It's my music! \| My music on MySpace \| Integrational Polytheism davebrock Member Posts: 41 Kudos: 0 Free IE With every windows OS!! « Reply #6 on: 6 May 2002, 04:11 » too true calum :-( The thing that interests me however is, correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am) wasn't windows NT sposed to be based on SCO unix? WTF happened with the licensing there? And why the fuck is Win NT/XP such a poor imitation of Unix? MS at it again!!! Logged Master of Reality VIP Posts: 4,249 Kudos: 177 Free IE With every windows OS!! « Reply #7 on: 6 May 2002, 04:48 » quote: Originally posted by hmd: too true calum :-( The thing that interests me however is, correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am) wasn't windows NT sposed to be based on SCO unix? WTF happened with the licensing there? And why the fuck is Win NT/XP such a poor imitation of Unix? MS at it again!!! Win NT/XP are not supposed to be an imitation of Unix. They are just more microsoft crap. Logged Disorder \| Rating Paranoid: Moderate Schizoid: Moderate Linux User #283518 'It takes more than a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head to stop Bob' Calum Global Moderator Posts: 7,812 Kudos: 1000 Free IE With every windows OS!! « Reply #8 on: 6 May 2002, 04:49 » windows will never be based on unix, although for one reason or another that rumour occasionally gets started, because if windows was unix based, nobody would have a need for M$ any more. their products are shit on their own merit, and without the proprietary stranglehold that their DOS/VFAT situation gives them now, they would not be competitive. Logged visit these websites and make yourself happy forever: It's my music! \| My music on MySpace \| Integrational Polytheism voidmain VIP Posts: 5,605 Kudos: 184 Free IE With every windows OS!! « Reply #9 on: 6 May 2002, 21:00 » Actually M$ incorporated some open source stuff for Win2k including much of the BSD TCP/IP stack, and they hacked up and proprietized Kerberos. Bunch of two faced assholes if you ask me. Shooting down open source every chance they get, yet the rape it wherever they can. Logged Someone please remove this account. Thanks... Calum Global Moderator Posts: 7,812 Kudos: 1000 Free IE With every windows OS!! « Reply #10 on: 6 May 2002, 16:26 » raping and basing are two different things though, i'm sure a lot of other open source things have been ripped off by M$ too, they are probably the only ones who can break the law by developing code for an open source project, then refusing to open the code they have written (and keeping the code closed for the stuff they stole too). That's another good reason for M$ not to show it's source code, it'll be proved that they broke the law by snaffling some of it. [ May 06, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ] Logged visit these websites and make yourself happy forever: It's my music! \| My music on MySpace \| Integrational Polytheism mael Member Posts: 42 Kudos: 0 Free IE With every windows OS!! « Reply #11 on: 7 May 2002, 12:39 » http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:Iyy9bzjrl58C:www.cei.org/PDFs/microsoft.pdf+%22windows+os%22+%22price+history%22&hl=en" target="_blank">http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:Iyy9bzjrl58C:www.cei. org/PDFs/microsoft.pdf+%22windows+os%22+%22price+history%22&hl=en Code: [Select] It looks like they did still raise the cost of the OS, and im sure its not because of inflation.. BTW thats from a Pro MS site.. lol, im gonna love using it when i debate. (edited to make it easier to read - Calum) [ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ] Logged Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. mael Member Posts: 42 Kudos: 0 Free IE With every windows OS!! « Reply #12 on: 7 May 2002, 13:58 » Thanks calum. Looks much nicer Logged Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. Print Pages: [1] Go Up « previous next » Stop Microsoft » Forum » All Things Microsoft » Microsoft Software » Free IE With every windows OS!!
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