All Things Microsoft > Microsoft as a Company
Windows not ready for the desktop YET
Aloone_Jonez:
Well unfortunelaty I've decided to take this article seriously. :D
I agree that KDE has a better user interface than Windows but:
I've had more problems with hadware support in Linux than Windows (graphics card, scanner winmodem) yes I've tried the drivers I've found on the internet.
I didn't need to install Windows as it came with my PC so the installation wasn't an issue.
The reason I use Windows is because it runs propietry software I need for work for which there is no Linux alternative and Wine won't run it either.
RaZoR1394:
Aloone_Jonez - I have several computers with very different configurations and all have gotten perfect driver support after som tweaking and fixing. The good thing about Linux is that the drivers are implemented inside the kernel (inbuilt) or as an external module. The kernel also has support for most of todays available devices.
Well, still the ATI drivers lack performance and features but that will be fixed later on.
In Windows you need to load up the disc from the manufacturer or download the driver separately from the web. Sometimes you may have lost the disc or the drivers on it may be very old.
A good example is the Microsoft joysticks and gamepads. Some won't even work anymore with the provided drivers if you use XP as they have ended the support for them, at least not the special features. In linux they work fine after tweaking some configs and loading the proper drivers.
Also, in Windows one of my computers has a bluetooth antenna which requires an extra license. The funny thing is that the company Widcomm doesn't supply the license anymore. The unit availability also fades away from time to time (system properties). In Linux there is no need for stupid licenses, just compile the chipset driver into the kernel and you're go. My bluetooth dongle works perfectly now and it doesn't disappear like it did in Windows.
Then we have the SATA drivers and RAID controllers... On one of my computers It's impossible as I refuse to put a 3.5 floppy in the bay. Instead I use a card reader... Sure, you can slipstream it with nLite but that's a lot of hassle, at least with these drivers.
Except that most drivers already present on the Windows disc are outdated or not compatible so you'll often have to upgrade them anyway. Imagine living on the countryside without an internet connection. In your left hand you have a Gentoo universal 2005.0 livecd with updated drivers for 90% of your devices. In your other hand you have a WinXP CD which covers drivers with good functionality for about 30% of your devices. Which would you choose?
So... Personally I've only had bad experiences with Windows drivers and how It's driver system works. Maybe you have some very rare hardware or maybe a laptop with a mobility chipset or something similar?
About proprietary Windows softare. Yes some apps that won't run in Wine is a pain in the ass. Personally I use a lot of Architectural desktop 2005 and that works perfectly in VMware. I think It's worth it.
Aloone_Jonez:
--- Quote from: RaZoR1394 ---Aloone_Jonez - I have several computers with very different configurations and all have gotten perfect driver support after som tweaking and fixing.
--- End quote ---
My pro savage video card is slow under Linux, my leximark printer/scanner prints slowly and won't scan, my winmodem has a driver but it only works with the 2.4.x kernel. Yes I have downloaded and installed the relevant drivers.
--- Quote from: RaZoR1394 --- The good thing about Linux is that the drivers are implemented inside the kernel (inbuilt)
--- End quote ---
I fail to see the advantage here, a kernel with lots of drivers suitable to run on a wide selection of hardware will be big, slow and bloated. It's very stupid how you need to recompile the kernel to add NTFS support.
--- Quote from: RaZoR1394 --- or as an external module. The kernel also has support for most of todays available devices.
--- End quote ---
That's a far better option, use a mimium kernel and load the drivers for aditional hardware support - like it should be.
--- Quote from: RaZoR1394 ---Well, still the ATI drivers lack performance and features but that will be fixed later on.
--- End quote ---
Just like my pro savage card. :)
--- Quote from: RaZoR1394 ---In Windows you need to load up the disc from the manufacturer or download the driver separately from the web. Sometimes you may have lost the disc or the drivers on it may be very old.
--- End quote ---
In general a decient product comes with good drivers, my Leximark printer scanner came with very good drivers and a great OCR too.
--- Quote from: RaZoR1394 ---A good example is the Microsoft joysticks and gamepads. Some won't even work anymore with the provided drivers if you use XP as they have ended the support for them, at least not the special features. In linux they work fine after tweaking some configs and loading the proper drivers.
--- End quote ---
However my Cannon LBP-660 printer doesn't have a driver designed for NT5.1 (Windows XP) but I rung up support and they suggested using an old driver (NT4 I I think) and it works a treat.
What the fuck? Linux won't let me use a Winmodem driver designed for the 2.4.x kernel on the 2.6.x kernel even though it's been compiled, while Windows will allow me to use an old NT4 driver binary!
--- Quote from: RaZoR1394 ---Also, in Windows one of my computers has a bluetooth antenna which requires an extra license. The funny thing is that the company Widcomm doesn't supply the license anymore. The unit availability also fades away from time to time (system properties). In Linux there is no need for stupid licenses, just compile the chipset driver into the kernel and you're go. My bluetooth dongle works perfectly now and it doesn't disappear like it did in Windows.
--- End quote ---
I can't disagree with you here licensing is not a pgood old GPL.
--- Quote from: RaZoR1394 ---Then we have the SATA drivers and RAID controllers... On one of my computers It's impossible as I refuse to put a 3.5 floppy in the bay. Instead I use a card reader... Sure, you can slipstream it with nLite but that's a lot of hassle, at least with these drivers.
Except that most drivers already present on the Windows disc are outdated or not compatible so you'll often have to upgrade them anyway. Imagine living on the countryside without an internet connection. In your left hand you have a Gentoo universal 2005.0 livecd with updated drivers for 90% of your devices. In your other hand you have a WinXP CD which covers drivers with good functionality for about 30% of your devices. Which would you choose?
--- End quote ---
It simply isn't fair to compare a Windows XP CD made in 2003 and a live Linux CD made in 2005. I personally don't expect the operating system to come with any drivers except for the generic ones required to boot up and install it. Drivers as far as I'm concerned are the responsibility of the hardware manufacturer this is why I don't blame driver problems on Windows or Linux.
--- Quote from: RaZoR1394 ---So... Personally I've only had bad experiences with Windows drivers and how It's driver system works. Maybe you have some very rare hardware or maybe a laptop with a mobility chipset or something similar?
--- End quote ---
Our personal experiances will vary, there's really no point in argueing about them. I've only had one problem with Windows XP it used to hang up when going to the screensaver but this was fixed by altering the power saving monitor configureation.
--- Quote from: RaZoR1394 ---About proprietary Windows softare. Yes some apps that won't run in Wine is a pain in the ass. Personally I use a lot of Architectural desktop 2005 and that works perfectly in VMware. I think It's worth it.
--- End quote ---
Lot's of prorams are unstable under WINE if they work at all, Protel, Electronics Work bench and Crocadile Clips all don't work and there are no decent Linux alternatives. To run Windows programs under VMWARE don't you need Windows anyway?
piratePenguin:
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---What the fuck? Linux won't let me use a Winmodem driver designed for the 2.4.x kernel on the 2.6.x kernel even though it's been compiled, while Windows will allow me to use an old NT4 driver binary!
--- End quote ---
I'm using the 2.4 kernel and have no intention of switching to 2.6 for a while. 2.6.11.11, yuck. No worries with 2.4. Update the kernel less, and everything's working fine for me.
Consider the whole compiling-the-kernel thing an extra bonus, something you won't get on Windows. The 2.6.11.11 kernel is, ahem, 2 days old.
The 2.4.30 kernel isn't even 2 months old. It works. Use it.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---It simply isn't fair to compare a Windows XP CD made in 2003 and a live Linux CD made in 2005.
--- End quote ---
It's MS's latest home release versus Gentoo's latest release. Seems fair to me.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---I personally don't expect the operating system to come with any drivers except for the generic ones required to boot up and install it. Drivers as far as I'm concerned are the responsibility of the hardware manufacturer this is why I don't blame driver problems on Windows or Linux.
--- End quote ---
I agree - so you can blame the manufacturers for not giving GNU/Linux the support it deserves.
Even if they released the Windows drivers under a free software licence, they'd be ported pretty damn fast.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---Lot's of prorams are unstable under WINE if they work at all, Protel, Electronics Work bench and Crocadile Clips all don't work and there are no decent Linux alternatives. To run Windows programs under VMWARE don't you need Windows anyway?
--- End quote ---
I have no clue about VmWare.
Windows will run programs that are designed to run on Windows.
GNU/Linux will run programs that are designed to run on GNU/Linux.
Wine is, another, extra bonus.
Jenda:
--- Quote ---2.6.11.11 kernel is, ahem, 2 days old.
The 2.4.30 kernel is almost 2 months old. It works. Use it.
--- End quote ---
And the windoesn't kernel is...?
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